03-25-2013 05:56 PM
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  1. link68759's Avatar
    Hate to break it to you guys but mobile quad core is NOT quad core. So all this excitement and debate is misguided. They're more like two dual cores in parallel...

    The difference being, one set is battery saving the other is for power.
    Sent from my RM-824_nam_att_101 using Board Express
    03-21-2013 02:12 PM
  2. a5cent's Avatar
    Hate to break it to you guys but mobile quad core is NOT quad core. So all this excitement and debate is misguided. They're more like two dual cores in parallel...

    The difference being, one set is battery saving the other is for power.
    Sent from my RM-824_nam_att_101 using Board Express
    Nope, you are the one that is misguided. To my knowledge, no such mobile quad core CPU, with a 2+2 big.LITTLE configuration, exists. I know only of 4+1 and Samsung's upcoming 4+4 configurations. Every mobile quad core SoC I know of comes with a real quad core CPU. All of Qualcomm's quad core offerings certainly are. Not too hard to look it up on the manufacturers websites.
    Last edited by a5cent; 03-22-2013 at 01:52 PM. Reason: Spelling only
    03-21-2013 02:42 PM
  3. Coolknight1968's Avatar
    928... Bad name. Porsche 928. The 928 was a major Flop for Porsche. I doubt that the 928 will deliver if they make it in the same Chinese factory as the 920...
    03-21-2013 03:03 PM
  4. omniusovermind's Avatar
    Let's see - HTC, Samsung, Sony (to an extent), Apple, and Blackberry have all released their 2013 flagships on all carriers. Let's see whether Nokia gets with the times or not on this phone. I'm going to predict they won't. Yes I know the carriers share some blame for this, but evidently the others above have managed somehow to overcome any obstacles.
    03-21-2013 03:34 PM
  5. antsin3d's Avatar
    Because the 920 is such bad quality? That's not what basically every review and user opinion and youtube video has said/shown. I can't imagine more than 0.01% of potential buyers are going to associate it with a Porsche frlast made nearly 20 years ago lol
    Gungzwei likes this.
    03-21-2013 03:56 PM
  6. a5cent's Avatar
    Let's see whether Nokia gets with the times or not on this phone. I'm going to predict they won't. Yes I know the carriers share some blame for this, but evidently the others above have managed somehow to overcome any obstacles.
    I agree, but you are missing one very important point. The price! In the U.S., the Z10 is selling for $200 on contract, despite being last years tech. The Z10 contains practically the same SoC as the L920, which cost half that price when it was brand new. The L920 is now free!

    That price advantage exists only due to exclusivity! The real question has nothing at all to do with 'getting with the time's', but whether Nokia thinks maintaining that price advantage is more important than a 'universal' launch. Based on what we're hearing, that seems to be the case.

    Why Apple and Samsung can do universal launches shouldn't require further explanation.
    Last edited by a5cent; 03-22-2013 at 02:18 PM. Reason: Spelling only (sorry, was a long day)
    03-21-2013 04:12 PM
  7. omniusovermind's Avatar
    I agree, but you are missing one very important point. The price! In the U.S., the Z10 is selling for $200 on contract, despite being last years tech. The Z10 contains practically the same SoC as the L920, which cost half that price when it was brand new. The L920 is now free!

    That price advantage exists only due to exclusivity! The real question has nothing at all to do with 'getting with the time's', but whether Nokia thinks maintaining that price advantage is more important than a 'universal' launch. Based on what we're hearing, that seems to be the case.

    Why Apple and Samsung can do universal launches should need to be explained any more.
    I've seen the 920 get some friendly reviews but haven't seen anything to indicate it's a huge success or even if it's sales have anything at all to do with exclusivity. And it isn't just apple and Samsung. ALL of the OEMs are launching their flagships universally this year.
    03-21-2013 07:43 PM
  8. Villain's Avatar
    After dealing with SD card on my Samsung Epic, slow refresh slow app loads, slow boot while it tries to read it, i'll take a 32 gb phone with no sd card. I only have 6 or so GB of music that I travel with, so that is more than enough for pics, loading a movie or two for the kids now and then and applications. I know why the OEMs are not having them, so the speed is there at all times from the faster onboard flash memory.
    I hope it is 32 PLUS SD card.. then I would only have to use the SD card for movies and such, it would also be easier to move the media to it from a PC/laptop
    slow speeds from a Micro SD cards are caused by a low end/speed card. chances are you used the typical class 4 or even class 2 card... you will spend a few more bucks but should definitely buy class 6 or 10 Micro SD card because of transfer speeds. most lower priced cards are class 4. also depends if the device can take advantage of the faster card (most newer device can)


    Class 4 = 4mbps
    Class 10 = 10mpbs



    that being said.... I don't see a logical need for a phone to have over 32gb lol
    a5cent and locokip like this.
    03-21-2013 08:18 PM
  9. TonyDedrick's Avatar
    slow speeds from a Micro SD cards are caused by a low end/speed card. chances are you used the typical class 4 or even class 2 card... you will spend a few more bucks but should definitely buy class 6 or 10 Micro SD card because of transfer speeds. most lower priced cards are class 4. also depends if the device can take advantage of the faster card (most newer device can)


    Class 4 = 4mbps
    Class 10 = 10mpbs



    that being said.... I don't see a logical need for a phone to have over 32gb lol
    Like I always say, it doesn't hurt to have options. Someone out there might need over 32gb. I know I like to have more than I probably will use just for comfort sake.
    03-21-2013 08:42 PM
  10. a5cent's Avatar
    I've seen the 920 get some friendly reviews but haven't seen anything to indicate it's a huge success or even if it's sales have anything at all to do with exclusivity. And it isn't just apple and Samsung. ALL of the OEMs are launching their flagships universally this year.
    If you're saying that Nokia's strategy, which revolves around undercutting their competitions price points for similarly spec'ed devices, is misguided, then I can't argue with that. I don't have any data and don't know how Nokia would have done had each of their devices been $50 - $100 more expensive across the board... however they are the undisputed WP8 sales leader, which price may be at least partially responsible for, no?

    All I'm saying is that Nokia has consistently undercut their competitions price points for similarly spec'ed devices and that was only possible due to exclusivity.

    Whether that was worth the exclusivity deals I do not know, but since Nokia seems to be continuing down that path, I would assume it was.
    03-21-2013 09:01 PM
  11. cameradork's Avatar
    that being said.... I don't see a logical need for a phone to have over 32gb lol
    my 14GB of "Other" storage might count as a logical need ;)
    Mystictrust likes this.
    03-21-2013 10:43 PM
  12. locokip's Avatar
    Thanks. I never realized the "class" had to do with speed. I thought it was just some internal coding that differed for some proprietary reason.
    03-22-2013 01:10 AM
  13. Mirtas's Avatar
    It'll be great then, too - these are phone apps it's running, not Crysis or Maya. It's only the very specialized apps that are written to take advantage of a fast CPU. If a dev really wants to sell an app, they make it run just fine on a two-year old processor, because that's the lifespan of an average carrier contract and the goal is to get it on as many handsets as possible. If you're doing something that's taxing the processor on your phone that much, you should probably consider a laptop for that task.
    If that is indeed the case. The Lumia 610, which was released in April/May 2012 and is less than a year old, should run everything smoothly. At least till April/May 2014. But it is already struggling and can't run all the basic apps!

    Although most apps won't need more than a dual-core and 1GB ram and probably won't need it for another 12 months. The market will change and when customers are paying high-end prices, they do expect the latest hardware.

    Today’s high end phone is next year’s midrange phone and the low end of the year after.

    Especially because Microsoft has the potential to market the WP as a gaming device that works well with the Xbox and next generation Xbox, it would be great to see the latest CPU+GPU+RAM.


    Whether it is needed or not. I really hope Nokia comes with a quad-core phone, just for the free publicity of being the first WP that has quad-core. WP really needs more marketing (outside the USA).
    03-22-2013 03:57 AM
  14. a5cent's Avatar
    If that is indeed the case. The Lumia 610, which was released in April/May 2012 and is less than a year old, should run everything smoothly. At least till April/May 2014. But it is already struggling and can't run all the basic apps!
    IMHO your post is full of (understandable) misconceptions, but I will only mention this one for now:

    We were talking about the inability of current hardware to run future apps. Your example with WP7 completely changes that subject, because the reason WP7 is 'struggling', as you call it, is software, NOT at all hardware!

    Every app that is compatible with the WP7 OS runs just fine though. Those apps aren't struggling. They most certainly aren't struggling due to hardware limitations, not even now, two years after the first WP7 device was released!

    This demonstrates some differences between WP and in particular Android, which can also explain why your other points are based on false reasoning.
    Last edited by a5cent; 03-22-2013 at 02:21 PM. Reason: Spellnig only
    cameradork likes this.
    03-22-2013 06:00 AM
  15. Mirtas's Avatar
    IMHO your post is full of (understandable) misconceptions, but I will only mention this one for now:

    We were talking about the inability of current hardware to run future apps. Your example with WP7 completely changes that subject, because the reason WP7 is 'struggling', as you call it, is software, NOT at all hardware!

    Every app that is compatible with the WP7 OS however, that runs great, n struggling at all, and this over two years after the first WP7 device was released!

    This demonstrates some differences between WP and in particular Android, which can also explain why your other points are based on false reasoning.

    This was one month after it's release Nokia Lumia 610 can't install Angry Birds, Skype and more | CNET UK and months before WP8 came out.

    In 2 years time a basic dual-core with 512mb will not be enough on a WP! By then a basic quad-core with 1GB ram will probally not be enough for Android ;)
    03-22-2013 09:43 AM
  16. Funky Cricket's Avatar
    My use of my Epic may have been a bad choice, I didn't put in the mSD. It came with it from the OEM (which implies it shouldn't be crap). I was a bad nerd and I've never even checked to see what class it is. never the less, on board flash will also be faster than an SD card.
    03-22-2013 10:04 AM
  17. cameradork's Avatar
    This was one month after it's release Nokia Lumia 610 can't install Angry Birds, Skype and more | CNET UK and months before WP8 came out.

    In 2 years time a basic dual-core with 512mb will not be enough on a WP! By then a basic quad-core with 1GB ram will probally not be enough for Android ;)
    As a5cent said, this has to do with the software divide between WP7 and WP8. Different architecture means different hardware requirements and different usage of the hardware (in this case, a lot more efficiently). MS at some point said that all current WP8 phones will be able to run the next major rev of WP, meaning you won't have similar problems for at least another year (probably more, unless they have to do another full rewrite for some reason). It has nothing to do with the processor speed or number of cores. If anything, I'd say the biggest hardware hurdle was that WP7's max resolution for the screen was less than the minimum spec for WP8's.

    There's a big difference between "I literally can NOT install this app on my phone" and "I can install the app on my phone, but it runs like crap". This article is a case of the former. What I'm talking about is the latter, which I've seen no evidence of on the WP platform.
    03-22-2013 10:05 AM
  18. Nabkawe5's Avatar
    But you know if they named it a cooler name there would be no chance for the competition man. :)
    Its 920 + Windows phone 8 . :)
    03-22-2013 10:20 AM
  19. camaroz1985's Avatar
    I have 27GB on my ipod. I'd like a phone with removable storage so I could replace that and only carry my phone, not phone and ipod. I know I could cut down on what I sync, but I shouldn't have to. 16 or 32GB of internal memory doesn't matter to me as long as it will accept at least a 32GB microSD card. I'm trying to purge my ios devices haha, already replaced ipad with Thinkpad Tablet 2. ipod is next hopefully.
    03-22-2013 10:53 AM
  20. Mirtas's Avatar
    If the Lumia 720 can have 8GB storage + up to 64GB micro-SD then hopefully the 928 will be 16+64 or 32+64!
    03-22-2013 01:44 PM
  21. a5cent's Avatar
    This was one month after it's release Nokia Lumia 610 can't install Angry Birds, Skype and more | CNET UK and months before WP8 came out.
    In 2 years time a basic dual-core with 512mb will not be enough on a WP! By then a basic quad-core with 1GB ram will probally not be enough for Android ;)
    As a5cent said, this has to do with the software divide between WP7 and WP8.
    Mirtas, thanks for citing a specific example.

    You fear future apps may not run well on current WP8 hardware. You think getting a quad core WP8 device now will remedy that problem. That is wrong for many many many reasons, but again, I'll concentrate just on the one example you provided. You cited Angry Birds as a precedent for such a problem in WP's past, because Angry Birds didn't run on the L610 on the day it was released. This is why that argument doesn't work:

    1)
    WP8 and WP7 devices are each available in two different RAM configurations. Either as 1 GB or 512 MB models (WP8) or 512 MB and 256 MB models (WP7). Microsoft was always upfront and clear about the limitations of those devices with less RAM: they will run any normal app, but not necessarily every game. The L610, the device you cited, is precisely such a 256 MB model! It was never intended to run every possible game. Therefor, this example has no bearing on the argument you are trying to make:

    Anyone who buys a 512 MB WP8 device today, and one year from now claims that the devices is outdated because it can't run every game, is severely bending the truth. Again, it was never intended to play every game, from the outset! The only honest statement is to say it was under spec'ed from the outset, at least for its intended purpose.

    2)
    In the case of Angry Birds, the CPU was never a problem. It was only ever about this RAM limitation. However, a later update solved the problem. Now, Angry Birds runs just fine on WP7 devices with 256 MB of RAM. In all honesty, what this really shows is that there NEVER was a hardware problem of any kind! This was just sloppy programming.

    3)
    The point is, you can't cite an example in WP's past where the issue you're raising was ever a problem. Although the past can't be used to predict the future, this should at least show you that WP, at least so far, isn't really comparable to Android in this regard.

    I'm guessing you are taking experiences made in the Android world and applying them WP. That simply doesn't work. How Microsoft manages WP as a combined and standardized hardware/software platform is simply too different.
    Last edited by a5cent; 03-22-2013 at 02:23 PM. Reason: Spelling only
    03-22-2013 02:07 PM
  22. hopmedic's Avatar
    I have only done a cursory glance of this thread, but A5cent is pretty well on the mark. The only thing I would disagree with is the comment about sloppy programming. Sometimes even good code needs to be made better to fit within the 90 MB limitation for apps that run on 256 MB devices. I don't recall the limit for other devices, but one of my apps was rejected for violating that limit - even though my app never exceeded 90MB - it used background task, and those aren't supported on 256 MB devices. At Microsoft's testing, though, that's the error it threw, so that's the message they sent me.

    Anyway, yes, there is a RAM limitation, as well as no background task limitation for the 256 MB devices. So no, not every app or game was ever intended to run on every phone.
    a5cent likes this.
    03-22-2013 08:21 PM
  23. a5cent's Avatar
    I have only done a cursory glance of this thread, but A5cent is pretty well on the mark. The only thing I would disagree with is the comment about sloppy programming. Sometimes even good code needs to be made better to fit within the 90 MB limitation for apps that run on 256 MB devices.
    And sometimes, it just comes down to sloppy programming :-D

    Completely agree though, that sloppy programming isn't necessarily and certainly not always the case. Man oh man, this forum is keeping me awake long past my bedtime today!

    .Anyway, yes, there is a RAM limitation, as well as no background task limitation for the 256 MB devices. So no, not every app or game was ever intended to run on every phone.
    What did you do? Isn't the normal approach to simply not register the background task in such situations, and have the app run anyway, just without an automatically updating live tile?
    Last edited by a5cent; 03-24-2013 at 07:01 PM. Reason: Spelling only
    03-22-2013 11:06 PM
  24. hopmedic's Avatar
    Yeah, that's what I did. I'd just forgotten about this limitation because I hadn't done anything before that mattered with low men devices.

    Last night (actually very early this morning) I finally submitted my first app designed for WP 8. Redone from the ground up, and using speech commands. We'll see if I missed anything. Doing this on the side and in my spare time, I've been working on it since thanksgiving.
    aximtreo, a5cent and stmav like this.
    03-23-2013 07:14 AM
  25. a5cent's Avatar
    ^ *raises glass* Congratulations! And thanks for supporting WP! May your efforts be richly rewarded!
    03-23-2013 08:30 AM
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