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  1. maverick786us's Avatar
    I think its bad, to over sample an image to 5MP in order to get best picture. We don't want a 5MP crap, we want best image at 20MP resolution. So what Nokia recommends, that in order to get best picture, we should over sample it to 5MP, is not right.
    07-19-2014 12:41 PM
  2. KPAkiller's Avatar
    Use pro shot it does 10mp+19mp
    07-19-2014 12:45 PM
  3. maverick786us's Avatar
    Use pro shot it does 10mp+19mp
    We should get best picture at 20MP resolution, instead of over sampling it to 5MP
    07-19-2014 12:58 PM
  4. Bahamen's Avatar
    I think its bad, to over sample an image to 5MP in order to get best picture. We don't want a 5MP crap, we want best image at 20MP resolution. So what Nokia recommends, that in order to get best picture, we should over sample it to 5MP, is not right.
    Well, at 20MP the 1520/930 has the highest number of pixels compared to any other camera in the market except the 1020. In good lighting condition, it means your images will have more details than, say an iPhone's 8MP image.

    However, in lowlight, pixel size becomes an important factor. Although the 1520/930's sensor may be 40% larger than the iPhone 5S, but the pixel count is more than double. That means the pixel size for 1520/930 is smaller than the 5S. Therefore, the 1520/930's image will be noisier at pixel level compared to the 5S.

    Oversampling is designed to remedy this. By combining 20MP into 5MP, the average pixel now becomes 4x larger with higher quality pixels and less noise. You have the best of both worlds - sharp detailed full-res images in good light, and higher quality oversampled images in lowlight.
    07-19-2014 01:06 PM
  5. Kissanviikset's Avatar
    We should get best picture at 20MP resolution, instead of over sampling it to 5MP
    20MP photos are not any better unless you view them from 4K monitor/TV. 5MP photos look better compared to full resolution photos. More closer to your monitors native resolution photos are the better those will look since less downscaling there is. Obviously you loose ability to zoom in to those photos. If i look same 5MP photo vs full sized photo from my computer screen, full sized photo is much softer compared to 5MP photo. You can't see any more details that your screen resolution is capable to show even if source photo is 100MP. Then there is how dense those pixels are in your monitor. That's why even crappy photos look great in your smart phone screen, since pixel density is so high and hides all imperfections.

    Camera needs to have certain amount of pixels in first place to resolve those details and 13MP seems to be enough for 1920x1080 monitors. Then obviously if camera is not up to task those pixels doesn't count if photos look crap in first place like Xperia Z2 photos.

    Nokia uses that oversampling to make photos look sharper and noise free without making photos look artificially sharp like Samsung camera photos which uses tons of sharpening filter. Nokia photos just look natural compared to any other phone. Iphone is second when it comes to naturall look but they can't match when it comes to details and sharpness. Without clever downsampling Nokia would have to use sharpening filters that would ruin natural look of photos. This way is much better than offering full sized photos without downsampling.

    You can get full size photos out from phone but they are not better looking.
    At 4:3 maximum is 19MP and 16:9 mode 16MP by the way.
    Last edited by Kissanviikset; 07-19-2014 at 01:45 PM.
    Dreamspell and Madam ImAdam like this.
    07-19-2014 01:17 PM
  6. Nijaz Turdaliev's Avatar
    07-19-2014 02:37 PM
  7. Coreldan's Avatar
    Although most phones can do pretty sweet outdoors pics with enough light, those sure are some impressive photos, Nijaz!
    Evindzer likes this.
    07-19-2014 02:59 PM
  8. KPAkiller's Avatar
    RIGHT-CLICK, OPEN IMAGE IN NEW TAB for full size image...





    These were all taken using the Nokia Camera App. (5MP + 19MP) 4:3

    First attempt using the camera and playing around with settings, I think I could have focussed better on one or two of these but I can try again.
    Last edited by KPAkiller; 07-19-2014 at 04:25 PM.
    07-19-2014 03:51 PM
  9. MrWhiteman's Avatar
    Low light comparison. No light in the room but light on in next room. Pretty dark.

    Lumia 920
    wp_20140719_23_26_08_pro.jpg

    Lumia 930
    wp_20140719_23_28_51_pro.jpg
    maverick786us and ajayden like this.
    07-19-2014 06:01 PM
  10. MrWhiteman's Avatar
    Do you guys think my camera is faulty or is this all the 930 can do? Using NCPB @ 5mpx auto settings with focus light on Auto.

    Dark
    wp_20140720_01_02_17_pro.jpg

    Medium dark
    wp_20140720_01_02_37_pro.jpg

    Bright fluorescent
    wp_20140720_01_02_47_pro.jpg

    Bright fluorescentt
    wp_20140720_01_02_53_pro.jpg

    Bright fluorescent
    wp_20140720_01_03_03_pro.jpg

    Dark
    wp_20140720_01_03_23_pro.jpg

    Extreme dark
    wp_20140720_01_03_41_pro.jpg
    07-19-2014 07:06 PM
  11. DJCBS's Avatar
    Is it fair to say that as a 'just point and click' camera with default settings the results are kind of underwhelming (compared to ios or some androids) but when you get into the camera and tweak settings for either specific situations or tweak the settings to get what you want out of 'point and click' scenarios you can get some amazing pictures?
    Yes, it is. Nokia's cameras are awesome but they're not directed at the typical iPhone-user who just points and shoots. This has become true since the 1020. From there on, with this oversampling gimmicks and increase in megapixels from the 8mp of the 920, the Nokia Camera has become a tool that a professional handles better than a noob who just wants a point and shooter.
    It's a risky choice but there you have it...
    thatuxguy and Gautam Kabiraj like this.
    07-19-2014 07:08 PM
  12. MrWhiteman's Avatar
    Yes, it is. Nokia's cameras are awesome but they're not directed at the typical iPhone-user who just points and shoots. This has become true since the 1020. From there on, with this oversampling gimmicks and increase in megapixels from the 8mp of the 920, the Nokia Camera has become a tool that a professional handles better than a noob who just wants a point and shooter.
    It's a risky choice but there you have it...
    See my pics above, are you telling me by using the right settings and not needing a tripod I can get less grainy pictures? MY gfs 920 would have taken those dark ones as if it was day time
    07-19-2014 07:21 PM
  13. KPAkiller's Avatar
    try some darker situations again, but change the shutter speed to 1/8 or 1/16. ISO to around 200.
    07-19-2014 07:45 PM
  14. Bahamen's Avatar
    Low light comparison. No light in the room but light on in next room. Pretty dark.
    Lumia 920
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Can you tell us what is the EXIF setting for the 920's image? I'd like to know the ISO and shutter speed that it was taken.
    07-19-2014 08:30 PM
  15. MrWhiteman's Avatar
    I deleted the pics I will take more later. ProShots 10/19 mode took much better pictures but the focus assist light was still necessary. I couldn't upload 10mpx 5MB pics to the forums so I used Nokia cam instead. What's the best site to upload pics? I was using Flickr but linking to them got on my nerves.
    07-20-2014 01:14 AM
  16. Mizmo's Avatar
    I think its bad, to over sample an image to 5MP in order to get best picture. We don't want a 5MP crap, we want best image at 20MP resolution. So what Nokia recommends, that in order to get best picture, we should over sample it to 5MP, is not right.
    I think you are wrong. the 5MP oversampled picture will ALWAYS be the best picture, even if your 20MP pictures have great quality. and more MP doesn't mean better quality, especially in small devices like smartphones. and thats why you use oversampling so you actually can make something useful with them and not only have a larger pictures which nobody needs. 5MP is more than enough for 99% of users. your Full HD screen can display 2MP, Ultra HD still only 4MP. so why do you need more? high MP are nice if you need to zoom in for whatever reason (which makes things bigger but look worse) or want to make posters out of it. and thats it.
    07-20-2014 07:38 AM
  17. George Jefferies's Avatar
    One of the first photos I've taken. Took it this morning with everything in auto.
    iRS73, Allan29 and Gautam Kabiraj like this.
    07-20-2014 08:14 AM
  18. Kissanviikset's Avatar
    Do you guys think my camera is faulty or is this all the 930 can do? Using NCPB @ 5mpx auto settings with focus light on Auto.

    Seems completely legit for 930 auto setting shots. I have 1520 which have essentially same camera. I can't take any better photos with auto settings since that 2.4f aperture needs to bump ISO way too high to collect enough light. The trick is manually set ISO so low that OIS still can maintain camera steady. Sometimes it needs whole 1 second exposure time to collect enough light, but with some practise you know when to press shutter button and for shutter button i mean button that is on your screen , not psychical camera button since it automaticly causes phone to move and ruin photo. 1 sec exposures, free hands are possible I have never seen photo where auto settings would have gone slower than 1/3 sec. There is lot of room to improve your photos and you can easily half ISO value needed for your shots. If barely possible do not ever go over 800 ISO. At 400 ISO there is quite lot noise already but it also depens of scene how bad it will look. If there is lot of bright and extremely dark areas you can shoot relatively high ISO and it wont show that much.

    But yes, that is all you can get on auto settings. 930 isn't low light camera how you all used to know 920 camera. But you can get equally good low light shots if you know how. I owned 920 and OIS were not that good on it compared to 1520/930. 920 is way easier to take good low light compared to 930. The lens on it is just so much faster. 930 is geared more to to daylight shot. It can do good in twilight shots too, but really low light not so much if you don't know what to do.

    If 930 had same 2.0f aperture, low light photos would be beyond of this world when it comes to smartphone photography.

    Here is sample to give you all some courage to use manual settings for low light shots.

    Auto settings: ISO 2500 - 1/4s
    https://mavtgw.dm2302.livefilestore....Pro.jpg?psid=1

    Manual settings ISO 400 - 1.55s
    https://mavtgw.dm2302.livefilestore....Pro.jpg?psid=1

    This how dark scene were in reality
    https://mavtgw.dm2302.livefilestore....Pro.jpg?psid=1

    I was suprised that how easy it was to take that 1.55s shot and i only needed one try. Be brave and try it out yourself.

    Just to test out i tried what that build in night mode does. It half's ISO used compared to full auto and uses slower shutter speed instead.
    https://qnrheq.dm2302.livefilestore....Pro.jpg?psid=1 ISO 1250 - 0.56s compared to ISO 2500 - 1/4s @ full auto. If you don't wan't to fiddle with settings too much just use night mode in Nokia camera and quality of photos is greatly increased. Just remember that anything moving is severely blurred.

    When i owned 920 i very rarely could get blur free shot slower than 1/8s speeds. Just to put comparison how much better OIS is in 930/1520. Half second shots are easy whit this camera.

    This is the same reason why reviewers say it takes bad photos in low light. It really does take bad photos on auto settings. I can take low light photos where people would say that those are taken with DLRS. But all reviewers use always auto settings and results are what they are. This cameras best asset is extremely good OIS but no reviewer ever put it in good use.
    Last edited by Kissanviikset; 07-20-2014 at 09:33 AM.
    07-20-2014 08:21 AM
  19. maverick786us's Avatar
    Low light comparison. No light in the room but light on in next room. Pretty dark.

    Lumia 920
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Lumia 930
    Click image for larger version. 

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    :( Looks like I have to wait for next generation Lumia flagship. 930 is not even closer to 920, in terms of low light images. Where is the magic of Nokia Cyan, where Nokia has claimed, that Cyan is designed to take extremely good low light images.
    07-20-2014 10:09 AM
  20. MrWhiteman's Avatar
    :( Looks like I have to wait for next generation Lumia flagship. 930 is not even closer to 920, in terms of low light images. Where is the magic of Nokia Cyan, where Nokia has claimed, that Cyan is designed to take extremely good low light images.
    They chatted crap mate. Got me all excited. The 930 has a smaller aperture which means lets light gets in per snap which either means grainy images or long exposure times which means blurry images. The ONLY thing the 930 has against the 920 is a bigger screen. I hate the AMOLED it hurts my eyes. IPS LCD is superior. The low light performance is that of a 2009 phone, there are screen issues, heating issues and all sorts. 920 is better.
    07-20-2014 10:44 AM
  21. DJCBS's Avatar
    See my pics above, are you telling me by using the right settings and not needing a tripod I can get less grainy pictures? MY gfs 920 would have taken those dark ones as if it was day time
    No, the 930 is another problem: bad calibration. It sucks in low light. But then again, I think the entire 930 camera is inferior to the 920's. It's nowhere near "middle ground" between the 920 and the 1020 as WPCentral wrote. Yes, it takes awesome shots in day light. And you can do pretty cool stuff with it on manual. But the low light is terrible, no matter what settings you use.

    This is the algorithms. The results I'm getting with the 930 are the same that I got with the Xperia Z1 when it first came out. Pixelization, tons of noise...
    Sony was pretty quick fixing the issue and they had a firmware update rolled out in less than a month. I'm afraid we won't get the same quickness from Microsoft though...if it gets fixed with GDR1 it will already be a miracle.
    07-20-2014 11:07 AM
  22. kelumnk's Avatar
    I have problems in taking photos when there is contrasting light.
    For example, if there is an open window in the roon which bringsi n light, the lumia 930 struggles to take images properly.
    My friends S5 is great in this regard.
    Can someone ls help with what settings to use in these situations?
    07-20-2014 11:12 AM
  23. iRS73's Avatar
    07-20-2014 12:57 PM
  24. Bahamen's Avatar
    I have problems in taking photos when there is contrasting light.
    For example, if there is an open window in the roon which bringsi n light, the lumia 930 struggles to take images properly.
    My friends S5 is great in this regard.
    Can someone ls help with what settings to use in these situations?
    I assume the problem is that your main subject comes out too dark. You have 3 options:

    1. Use the flash. This is often the best solution when dealing with backlight scenarios.

    2. Increase the exposure level (i.e. that last icon on Nokia Camera with the +/- sign) until your subject is bright enough. This may result in the bright part of the image to be burnt out.

    3. Take the picture as it is. Then edit the picture (using the default Nokia Creative Studio or other apps) to increase brightness in shadow areas.
    07-20-2014 01:16 PM
  25. Chris Wayne2's Avatar
    Sorry for my ignorance.
    This is my first windows phone (after returning my 1520 after 2 days due to sum card holder fault)
    Did you use auto settings?
    Was this the windows phone camera app or the nokia camera app?
    Lastly do you feel it would be beneficial to have an app like pro shot?

    Thanks a lot in advance..
    I know you were not asking me but...

    Both the Nokia Camera and ProShot are apps aimed towards photography enthusiasts, it really makes no sense in using it if you don't know what they are capable of or don't want to get technical on your smartphone, is better to stick to the native camera app since it is much faster and capable of decent shots.
    07-20-2014 01:51 PM
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