02-22-2014 11:22 PM
72 123
tools
  1. Slater_GS's Avatar
    I have to open my camera, fumble to get Smartcam open, look, hold down the button.
    I've already stated that smartcam can be set as default. No need to 'fumble' to get it open. Not sure how that constitutes as loop holes and excuses, more like a baked in system of choices. If you can't figure that out then maybe you should get an iPhone.
    I never argued that Lumia phones took faster photos than the iphone, just that the reviewed 8.5 seconds from somebody who should never be allowed to touch a nice camera is not a good representation of what the camera can do.
    I'll leave it at this.
    I can take plenty fast images with my 928 for my needs (almost 14 shots in 10 seconds from the time I push the shutter button to turn the screen on), no problems keeping up with the kids, BUT I can also do a lot more with the camera when I have time to mess with manual settings.
    My friends 5s can take faster images (not by that much), BUT he can't come close to the quality of images I get when the time is available to manually set up the shot.
    Personally I prefer the first option rather than the second, while others will be satisfied with the second.
    I have no problem with the iPhone or its camera, in fact I think they did a stellar job, but I have a problem with 'bloggers' and self proclaimed experts that throw the fantastic imaging capabilities of some of the Lumia line under the bus because they wouldn't know how to change a manual setting to save their life. And yes, you can get better with a dslr, but a camera is as good as the one you have with you (and the person behind the lens)
    02-14-2014 08:22 PM
  2. JudgeHolden's Avatar
    I've already stated that smartcam can be set as default. No need to 'fumble' to get it open. Not sure how that constitutes as loop holes and excuses, more like a baked in system of choices. If you can't figure that out then maybe you should get an iPhone.
    I never argued that Lumia phones took faster photos than the iphone, just that the reviewed 8.5 seconds from somebody who should never be allowed to touch a nice camera is not a good representation of what the camera can do.
    I'll leave it at this.
    I can take plenty fast images with my 928 for my needs (almost 14 shots in 10 seconds from the time I push the shutter button to turn the screen on), no problems keeping up with the kids, BUT I can also do a lot more with the camera when I have time to mess with manual settings.
    My friends 5s can take faster images (not by that much), BUT he can't come close to the quality of images I get when the time is available to manually set up the shot.
    Personally I prefer the first option rather than the second, while others will be satisfied with the second.
    I have no problem with the iPhone or its camera, in fact I think they did a stellar job, but I have a problem with 'bloggers' and self proclaimed experts that throw the fantastic imaging capabilities of some of the Lumia line under the bus because they wouldn't know how to change a manual setting to save their life. And yes, you can get better with a dslr, but a camera is as good as the one you have with you (and the person behind the lens)
    Jeez...
    Yes, you did already state that. And I already acknowledge it by pointing out that SmartCam is a limited-use program and nobody in their right mind would want a lens that is slow to load and does a 5 shot burst as their default camera options.

    Again, you're asking us to make sacrifices no other top of the line camera asks. Do iPhone users have to choose which camera program they use as default? No, they use one that is fast and can do very quick bursts of infinite time.
    Not to mention, I doubt your 14 shots in 10 seconds. My 928 will do 2 quick ones, one of which will be blurry, then do the wipe-animation. It will not take during that wipe animation, and that wipe animation takes about a second. Not sure why mine would do that and why yours wouldn't, so I just don't believe you. Not to mention, one of those shots is blurry because, if you slam the photo key, it just takes without focusing. If you tap the screen it takes about two seconds to focus.

    Listen, I'm not saying the 928 isn't pretty good, I'm saying the iPhone takes better photos faster. Excuse all you want, but it's pretty much fact. Read any review. Any comparison. The iPhone is typically found to be easier and, in most circumstances, at least as good in photo quality as the 928.
    This is coming from someone that HATES iOS, is on his 2nd windows phone, and is about to get an Icon.
    But unlike some of you, I don't just say "it's good enough!" I want more. I expect more.

    And for godssake stop talking about manual settings. We're talking about what a phone does for you when you try to take a quick shot - which is how 99% of smartphone cameras are used. You can spend a good amount of time taking your photo. I want something that defaults well.

    But holy crap, it's amazing to see you jump through hoops of all the time consuming ways you can make the 928 do what the iPhone does immediately. "You can change the default to something useful for 1% of your shots!" Wow, man. Seriously. How do you think that's a good comparison to what something else defaults to?
    02-14-2014 09:02 PM
  3. JBConforti's Avatar
    No comment on shutter speed but this guy has a very detailed video comparing 1520 to the 5s camera.


    woodie5 likes this.
    02-14-2014 09:46 PM
  4. airjeff's Avatar
    LOL, I think you guys need too agree to disagree. You have two different perspectives so you are both right. If a smartphone camera should be quick and simple the iPhone is great. If you want a great camera that offers the flexibility to adjust the settings for even better pictures a Nokia would fit the bill. It's not quite as quick, but offers the flexibility when you want it. There is a reason there are so many SLR lenses, they have specific purposes. One phone will never excel at all types of pictures. I'll be a little disappointed if the Icon's camera isn't as good as the 928 in low light, I've enjoyed that on my wife's 928. But the flip side is that I'll be able to zoom with this one and there is no hump from a camera. Anyway, until Thurs. we'll have to be content reading about the camera.
    JBConforti likes this.
    02-14-2014 09:59 PM
  5. falconrap's Avatar
    No comment on shutter speed but this guy has a very detailed video comparing 1520 to the 5s camera.


    Interesting video. I wonder why the video recording shots look so bad on the 1520. Even the daytime one had color shifting issues. The one video of the drag racers on the Icon doesn't appear to exhibit this (in fact that video looked very good). I wonder if this is a software/firmware issue where the camera isn't being setup right in software during video recording. I've seen tons of night time videos from the 928 that are well beyond both the 5S and 1520 videos here. The pictures appeared to be notably better in most cases (color accuracy notwithstanding, which can easily be corrected) on the 1520.

    I guess we'll find out when the phone hits and the pros tackle it.

    The 5S has certainly improved the iPhone camera quality a lot in difficult circumstances, but older iPhones don't hold a candle to the better Lumias. My 822 takes far better shots than my wife's 4S does. Especially if I use ProShot in Auto to do it.
    02-14-2014 10:22 PM
  6. maverick786us's Avatar
    No doubt that Lumia ICON, 1020, 1520, 920 takes better pictures than iPhone 5S. But burst shot mode of iPhone 5S is impressive. My friend owns an iPhone 5s, and I took 100 photos in burst shot mode, which is amazing (although I am not sure if burst shot photos are 8MP or 2MP).

    Last week, when I was I a family gathering, where I was asked to take photographs with my Lumia 920. I decided to go for burst mode. Although I don't often use Smart Cam that often. I've set Nokia Camera as my default camera application. Over there it took couple of minutes to find out, how to invoke Smart Cam application from Nokia Camera, which was bit frustrating, when everyone was waiting for me to take photographs. And then I noticed, that photos taken using smart cam are not that good as the one taken using default camera application. Most of the time you tend to loose focus.

    Therefore once Nokia implement burst shot mode with the default camera application, it will be exciting. I know that you need a lot of horse power to take 20MP images in burst mode (not sure if its possible with Snapdragon 800 processor). But even if it can take 8MP burst mode, it will be OK. I presume that Snapdragon 800 is a better processor than the one used by iPhone 5S. iPhone 5s still uses dual core and has such a good, optimized camera software. I think if Nokia too should bring this option of burst mode directly in Nokia camera application.
    02-14-2014 10:25 PM
  7. JBConforti's Avatar

    Therefore once Nokia implement burst shot mode with the default camera application, it will be exciting.
    Believe its coming in 8.1! I understand what they were doing with the lenses but they really need to combine some and cut down the number of them.
    02-14-2014 10:32 PM
  8. fonefan's Avatar
    Believe its coming in 8.1! I understand what they were doing with the lenses but they really need to combine some and cut down the number of them.
    Just read an article that states burst mode is going to be added in the 8.1 update. So this means the Icon will have this ability one it upgrades to 8.1.

    Posted via the WPC App
    02-14-2014 10:53 PM
  9. maverick786us's Avatar
    Just read an article that states burst mode is going to be added in the 8.1 update. So this means the Icon will have this ability one it upgrades to 8.1.

    Posted via the WPC App
    I more rely on Noka's camera software, rather than Windows camera application
    02-14-2014 10:56 PM
  10. falconrap's Avatar
    With ProShot you can select burst mode. You can adjust the rate from 1 to 5 pics per second, full res. Once set to burst mode, hold the camera button down as long as needed, up to 15 seconds. Not quite the 10/second on iPhone, but I can guarantee you that picture quality will suffer with faster burst speeds. The 5S does have slightly larger sensor cells at 1.5micron versus 1.4. Not sure what it is on the Icon. The true OIS is the only advantage you will find with the 928. So let's be honest - both phones can take great pictures at times. There are trade-offs to each. But the Lumias do offer far better flexibility and can be made to get better shots under situations where you have to go manual to make the proper adjustments.

    Overall, I've been pretty happy with my 822, and I'm sure the Icon will be far better, and I take a lot of action shots of the kids.
    02-14-2014 10:58 PM
  11. IdemanEric's Avatar
    I wonder if all the reviews are using the stock microsoft camera software instead of the Nokia Pro Cam. Is Nokia Pro cam default now cuz if it isn't, it should be.
    So... Just to clarify, and because I'm too lazy to stray over to the 1520 forum... Is this the SAME camera as the 1520? Is the camera on the 1520 considered and reviewed well?? I get that it is NOT the 1020, but does it beat the rest of the competition? The camera is one of my big selling points. If you "genralize" the reviews it basically says the 1020 is the king, Z1 is excellent, Note 3 is very good as well as the G2 and S4 with the HTC One pulling up the rear on the flagships. I am hearing a lot more complaining about the camera on the Icon than I thought I would.

    Posted via the WPC App for Android!
    02-15-2014 01:15 AM
  12. maverick786us's Avatar
    So... Just to clarify, and because I'm too lazy to stray over to the 1520 forum... Is this the SAME camera as the 1520? Is the camera on the 1520 considered and reviewed well?? I get that it is NOT the 1020, but does it beat the rest of the competition? The camera is one of my big selling points. If you "genralize" the reviews it basically says the 1020 is the king, Z1 is excellent, Note 3 is very good as well as the G2 and S4 with the HTC One pulling up the rear on the flagships. I am hearing a lot more complaining about the camera on the Icon than I thought I would.

    Posted via the WPC App for Android!
    It is the same camera, but I hope that this device is released 3 months after 1520, so its camera software doesn't produce crappy low light videos and images
    02-15-2014 02:18 AM
  13. psiu_glen's Avatar
    Are people debating whether to set Smartcam as the default? Or switch to it from within Procam? First off, it's deprecated anyway (built in to Procam now), second of all, you could theoretically switch using the Lenses, which is the first item in the app menu.

    Or seriously, hit the freaking toggle on the main screen? I'm wondering how this takes a couple minutes...
    02-15-2014 06:51 AM
  14. falconrap's Avatar
    I pin ProShot to the start screen. If I need to get into it quicker, I just launch it directly. The software for my 822, however, has gotten a lot better at producing great Auto shots with the standard camera app, so I don't need to use it quite as often. The small advantages the iPhone 5S will have over the top Lumia cameras is a trade-off between raw speed with solid overall results and being able to actually control everything to get the actual shot you want, especially when you can't get what you want on Auto. As an Engineer, trade-offs is something I very much understand.
    02-15-2014 09:28 AM
  15. Doctor Pork's Avatar
    So the new talking to excuse the iPhones cameras lack of some pureview features is to make the shortest possible time between shots and the launch time of the camera app the most important characteristic of a phone camera? Seriously, if this all you care about , just get an iPhone and quit whining. It takes 2 seconds to launch Nokia camera on the 1520 and 1 second to switch to the smart cam interface if needed. If 1 second or so really makes a difference, well then so be it, it is a niche scenario in practice. It takes about 2 seconds max if you are shooting dual capture on the 1520 which should be same for the Icon as it is the same camera with the same SoC, a difference of one second max is hardly a deal breaker for real people but the reviewers still have to whine about something. If you want more flexibility, the Nokia camera interface is likely faster than any other camera app on the market as you have easy acess to all the most important settings.

    Also, if we want to discuss the focus speed and catching moving things, well, unless you really need to catch a picture of something in 2 seconds, which you likely do not all the time in the real world, the Nokia camera app allows you the ability to set the focus mode to manual. In many cases, just set it to infinity if the object is not to near you, and you then got the ability to snap a picture instantly even in low light when you pull the shutter which is faster than any other camera phone on the market which still has to focus before snapping the picture.

    If we are getting into details, the Lumia phones are also much faster for me for taking quick pictures as I happen to live in a colder country where you usually need to wear gloves of some kind for the better part of the year. If I want a picture, I just push the manual camera button to launch the phone while picking it up from the pocket and then I can quickly take pictures with the camera button without removing the gloves. If use a regular smartphone, I have to first remove the gloves before even thinking of taking pictures. Hence I would miss all those all important pictures which apparently need the fastest possible time to start taking pictures.
    Tjarren likes this.
    02-15-2014 11:56 AM
  16. Zim Aliman's Avatar
    This is a lot more interesting to me then the 1520 due to the smaller screen. Has there been any word on an international version or is this a Verizon only phone like the 928?
    see:
    ipad air & accessoires galaxy s5
    02-15-2014 01:08 PM
  17. JudgeHolden's Avatar
    LOL, I think you guys need too agree to disagree. You have two different perspectives so you are both right. If a smartphone camera should be quick and simple the iPhone is great. If you want a great camera that offers the flexibility to adjust the settings for even better pictures a Nokia would fit the bill. It's not quite as quick, but offers the flexibility when you want it. There is a reason there are so many SLR lenses, they have specific purposes. One phone will never excel at all types of pictures. I'll be a little disappointed if the Icon's camera isn't as good as the 928 in low light, I've enjoyed that on my wife's 928. But the flip side is that I'll be able to zoom with this one and there is no hump from a camera. Anyway, until Thurs. we'll have to be content reading about the camera.

    There's no reason a camera shouldn't be both. This is what I'm saying - why aren't we demanding more from Nokia? Why are we saying "well, I can switch lenses, then I can play with setting, then I can blah blah blah" when other phone companies don't make their customers do this? Yes, sometimes we want to, but what percentage of photos do you want to bother with this? And why can't we do it when we want to and not do it when we don't without having a much inferior experience than owners of other phones?
    There's no default, simple lens that is as high quality as the iPhone, plain and simple.

    Which would you rather have - ten lenses that cover ten distinct circumstances with little overlap, or one lens that covers 90% of them just as well.

    I'd take the one. So would the vast majority of phone buyers.

    And no, I never said it takes minutes to switch lenses. I said it's a hassle. And, when something happens and all of your friends whip out their phones to take a shot and take ten by the time you have the correct lens selected, you look like an *****. Or, since some are so hung up on SmartCam, if you are waiting for a dog or a child to do something and, thinking it will happen, you hit the shutter, but nothing happens until after the SmartCam 3 second or whatever window passes, you have missed the shot and are asking your iPhone friends to email it to you.

    All this, and their photo quality is at worst marginally behind than the 928.
    02-15-2014 05:41 PM
  18. JudgeHolden's Avatar
    So the new talking to excuse the iPhones cameras lack of some pureview features is to make the shortest possible time between shots and the launch time of the camera app the most important characteristic of a phone camera? Seriously, if this all you care about , just get an iPhone and quit whining. It takes 2 seconds to launch Nokia camera on the 1520 and 1 second to switch to the smart cam interface if needed. If 1 second or so really makes a difference, well then so be it, it is a niche scenario in practice. It takes about 2 seconds max if you are shooting dual capture on the 1520 which should be same for the Icon as it is the same camera with the same SoC, a difference of one second max is hardly a deal breaker for real people but the reviewers still have to whine about something. If you want more flexibility, the Nokia camera interface is likely faster than any other camera app on the market as you have easy acess to all the most important settings.

    Also, if we want to discuss the focus speed and catching moving things, well, unless you really need to catch a picture of something in 2 seconds, which you likely do not all the time in the real world, the Nokia camera app allows you the ability to set the focus mode to manual. In many cases, just set it to infinity if the object is not to near you, and you then got the ability to snap a picture instantly even in low light when you pull the shutter which is faster than any other camera phone on the market which still has to focus before snapping the picture.

    If we are getting into details, the Lumia phones are also much faster for me for taking quick pictures as I happen to live in a colder country where you usually need to wear gloves of some kind for the better part of the year. If I want a picture, I just push the manual camera button to launch the phone while picking it up from the pocket and then I can quickly take pictures with the camera button without removing the gloves. If use a regular smartphone, I have to first remove the gloves before even thinking of taking pictures. Hence I would miss all those all important pictures which apparently need the fastest possible time to start taking pictures.

    There's NO WAY it takes you 1 second to switch to SmartCam. None. At all. You have to hit the button for lenses. It takes a split second, then you have to choose SmartCam. Since you can't arrange lenses, many of us need to scroll to find it, as it can be buried behind Bing Vision and Camera Timer and CNN iReport and Vine and Instagram clients. From there it takes about a second or second and a half just to load SmartCam.

    By this point your kid has already taken his first steps and fallen down. Congrats! Don't worry, your wife took about a hundred photos with her iPhone. Or maybe your baby waited five seconds to take those steps, so now SmartCam is thinking and compiling the burst it took and your camera isn't operational during this time.
    If only Nokia/MS gave us not only these lenses but a better quality default camera app! But no, we kept telling them they didn't need to, we shouldn't expect such things, give us a bunch of options, none of which are market-quality for all circumstances, and we'll make it work. Heaven forbid we ever criticize the phone company we put our blind allegiance into! We'll just sit on messageboards and call every reviewer stupid for complaining about this. It isn't a product choice, it's a religion!
    02-15-2014 05:44 PM
  19. ImJustaBilly's Avatar
    I think a lot of these Pureview cams are often dubbed disappointing because the average user doesn't know how to use it to their full extent. The iPhone 5S has, probably the best smartphone camera because of it's EASE OF USE AND PICTURE QUALITY. The Icon definitely has the optics to but the learning curve may be higher with a much more complex Nokia Pro Cam interface. I think that it's very possible to be able to get a great picture, just takes a bit more time.
    02-15-2014 07:57 PM
  20. vlad0's Avatar
    I have to admit that the iPhone is pretty good at point and shoot compared to my 808.. but most of that is in perfect conditions. As soon as the sun goes down the iPhone simply can't compete with the 808's auto mode.

    I don't know why Microsoft doesn't just integrate the Nokia camera app into WP and make it the default app. HTC and Samsung can use it as well... its not like it matter it's Nokia's work anymore.

    All that aside, the icon's camera is probably one of the best in the industry, so I still don't understand what people are complaining about. Its all relative to what you know to be the benchmark, and I can honestly say that I probably use the ultimate (808 PV) camera phone on daily basis, and I still think that the 1520 has a very good camera relative to that.

    I also have to say that I am extremely picky when it comes to image quality (IQ) and I can honestly tolerate the results from the 1520 for the most part... and that is saying a lot coming from me, and what I think its proper IQ for a mobile phone based on my experience with the 808.

    Even in terms of video I am yet to see a cleaner low light video from any phonein the industry.. bar OIS, I still think that the 808 has the best overall audio/video performance out there.

    So.. enjoy the phone. Its seems like a sweet package overall.
    02-15-2014 10:25 PM
  21. maverick786us's Avatar
    Can you guys post some sample pictures under normal lightening and low light? I can't own an ICON so have to wait till May, when Nokia releases something similar
    02-22-2014 10:51 PM
  22. TheZuneLune's Avatar
    I was blown away by the lack of photography understanding I saw from reviewers critiquing the ICON camera. they refers to tints. But what they were referring to was white balance, which can be changed. They also describe colors being washed out, but what it was is a comparison of exposures and saturation levels, again, they can be changed. Also, the reviewers were obviously not using the focus assist, or selecting a focus point, which would impact which part of the scene the camera was exposing for.

    Coming from a 928, I find con camera superior and the flash experience is different, undecided which I like better. Truthfully, if you want to improve your flash, tape a piece of semi-translucent paper over it and be amazed.
    02-22-2014 11:22 PM
72 123

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-13-2014, 04:22 PM
  2. Power Keyboard for Nokia Lumia 2520 now in stock at Microsoft Store online
    By WindowsCentral.com in forum Windows Central News Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-13-2014, 01:54 PM
  3. Order & Chaos - Unplayable on Nokia Lumia 1520
    By kyriacou48 in forum Games
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-13-2014, 01:44 PM
  4. Lumia 925 Tmobile non contract for $279.99 at Newegg
    By TechAbstract in forum Nokia Lumia 925
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-12-2014, 11:55 PM
  5. IP Camera app that supports audio + mic?
    By mpovolo in forum Applications
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-12-2014, 07:43 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD