02-22-2014 11:39 AM
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  1. mozman68's Avatar
    Are you talking about the IP controlled thermostat? That's manually programmable.
    And it's controllable from any computer, so technically, you could use your Windows Phone and simply use the browser to adjust the temperature in your house...because we know everyone does that all the time.

    The whole point of Nest is that it does it for you and you shouldn't even NEED the ability to adjust "prior to coming home" or whatever...
    palandri likes this.
    02-20-2014 07:37 AM
  2. BobLobIaw's Avatar
    Implying that one can't live without an official Uber and Nest app is super-geek level. Look, I wish there was a Capital One app for my credit card account. Am I hamstrung by not having one? No. To say someone should not consider WP because there is no official app for everything is ridiculous.
    02-20-2014 10:25 AM
  3. TURNERO's Avatar
    He really didn't say anything that wasn't true. I also have a 920 and it's a great phone, but the OS needs to continue to improve and do it rapidly. The new boss needs to put the pedal to the metal if WP is going to hang around.
    Hopefully the fact that it's selling well in Europe will drive people to write apps for it which will hopefully drive sales in the US and elsewhere.
    02-20-2014 11:11 AM
  4. palandri's Avatar
    Implying that one can't live without an official Uber and Nest app is super-geek level. Look, I wish there was a Capital One app for my credit card account. Am I hamstrung by not having one? No. To say someone should not consider WP because there is no official app for everything is ridiculous.
    How the Capital One mobile webpage? My bank has an application, but it's 100% easier and faster to use their mobile webpage. Just a thought.
    BobLobIaw and ohgood like this.
    02-20-2014 11:23 AM
  5. Zippier's Avatar
    How the Capital One mobile webpage? My bank has an application, but it's 100% easier and faster to use their mobile webpage. Just a thought.
    My bank's mobile site is better too. Not to mention, I use an app called WebApps to create custom tiles for mobile sites that don't have a WP app yet. It looks nicer on your start screen even though it's just an IE favorite pinned to start.
    02-20-2014 11:26 AM
  6. palandri's Avatar
    Hopefully the fact that it's selling well in Europe will drive people to write apps for it which will hopefully drive sales in the US and elsewhere.
    That's a good point. I am in France a couple of times every year and I see many more people with a WP in France than I do in the state. I think the states are still pretty much iPhoneified.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    02-20-2014 11:28 AM
  7. Markham Ranja's Avatar
    Implying that one can't live without an official Uber and Nest app is super-geek level. Look, I wish there was a Capital One app for my credit card account. Am I hamstrung by not having one? No. To say someone should not consider WP because there is no official app for everything is ridiculous.
    You can, I can't. Similar case for many users. More importantly, the idea that someday I might want to use Uber and that day the WP app may not be available is not exactly comforting. And Uber isn't some niche geek thing either, it's a very popular service among a large cross-section of society. Not having it just means that I'll have to call a cab company, but it's just so much easier with Uber.
    02-20-2014 11:33 AM
  8. BobLobIaw's Avatar
    You can, I can't. Similar case for many users. More importantly, the idea that someday I might want to use Uber and that day the WP app may not be available is not exactly comforting. And Uber isn't some niche geek thing either, it's a very popular service among a large cross-section of society. Not having it just means that I'll have to call a cab company, but it's just so much easier with Uber.
    From the wikiHow How to Use Uber: 8. Get a car through the website or via SMS. If you don’t have access to the Uber app, you can request a car through the Uber mobile site or by texting your pickup address and city to UBR222.

    I'm not disputing your reasonable preference. My statement was that 95% of the people who use smart phones would not be hamstrung by using a Windows Phone. I stand by that statement. For 95% of the people, using an occasional mobile website instead of an official app is not that big of a deal.
    02-20-2014 11:48 AM
  9. Old_Cus's Avatar
    This is the type of stuff that pisses me off. The New York Times (a supposed respected publication) runs a review of a phone that NEVER TALKS ABOUT THE PHONE! No mention of screen size or processor. No mention if it takes a memory card or how much storage it has. Nothing about what colors it comes in or how much ram it has. No talk about size or weight, how it feels or what kind of camera it has. Instead the "review" dumps on the OS and us "loyalists" that would dare debate the app argument.

    The app situation as been debated since the introduction wp7 and will probably continue for a little while longer but that review (or this thread) isn't the place for it. What burns me the most was that a great number of people that knows little about windows phone will read this hack job review and won't give it a chance........smh
    palandri likes this.
    02-20-2014 12:02 PM
  10. JudgeHolden's Avatar
    Not having Uber or Lyft in Seattle is actually a huge, huge frustration. Yeah, there are ways to still get Uber, but they're slower.
    Inevitably, no one wants to wait for you to figure it out when they can just take out their phone, see the nearest cars, and call one. So you get mocked.

    It isn't huge, but it's a frustration. There are very few apps I really feel I'm missing out on. That's one. Tinder is another, as though it's coming, I had to buy a used iPod Touch to use it (and it's another very important social life app.)
    02-20-2014 12:24 PM
  11. etad putta's Avatar
    Not having Uber or Lyft in Seattle is actually a huge, huge frustration. Yeah, there are ways to still get Uber, but they're slower.
    Inevitably, no one wants to wait for you to figure it out when they can just take out their phone, see the nearest cars, and call one. So you get mocked.

    It isn't huge, but it's a frustration. There are very few apps I really feel I'm missing out on. That's one. Tinder is another, as though it's coming, I had to buy a used iPod Touch to use it (and it's another very important social life app.)
    There is a proper reply to this but i can't word it correctly without getting banned, still thinking.....
    mozman68 likes this.
    02-20-2014 12:34 PM
  12. Markham Ranja's Avatar
    From the wikiHow How to Use Uber: 8. Get a car through the website or via SMS. If you don’t have access to the Uber app, you can request a car through the Uber mobile site or by texting your pickup address and city to UBR222.

    I'm not disputing your reasonable preference. My statement was that 95% of the people who use smart phones would not be hamstrung by using a Windows Phone. I stand by that statement. For 95% of the people, using an occasional mobile website instead of an official app is not that big of a deal.
    And I say that your numbers are ridiculous. To say, arbitrarily, without any reasonable data at all, that 95% of smartphone users will not be inconvenienced so, is unacceptable. The Uber app has significant advantages over the mobile site, which include Wallet integration such that I don't even have to take out my credit card. This is easily extensible to apps which are "niche" in your perception, but which may be of significant value for many people.

    Why should these people choose a platform which is objectively less capable than others? What benefit accrues by this to ME, the User?
    savagelizards likes this.
    02-20-2014 01:09 PM
  13. Markham Ranja's Avatar
    This is the type of stuff that pisses me off. The New York Times (a supposed respected publication) runs a review of a phone that NEVER TALKS ABOUT THE PHONE! No mention of screen size or processor. No mention if it takes a memory card or how much storage it has. Nothing about what colors it comes in or how much ram it has. No talk about size or weight, how it feels or what kind of camera it has. Instead the "review" dumps on the OS and us "loyalists" that would dare debate the app argument.

    The app situation as been debated since the introduction wp7 and will probably continue for a little while longer but that review (or this thread) isn't the place for it. What burns me the most was that a great number of people that knows little about windows phone will read this hack job review and won't give it a chance........smh
    Why do you feel so?

    In my opinion, this review is very fair, it praises what is to be praised about WP and criticises what is to be criticised. To wit:

    a graceful design, a brilliant display, a remarkable camera and an innovative set of microphones to make better-sounding home videos. The Icon runs Microsoft’s Windows Phone operating system, which has a cleaner and more coherent user interface than Google’s Android, and a more flexible and more informative home screen than Apple’s iOS.
    But:

    Windows Phone doesn’t have access to almost all the latest games that crowd the most-popular list on the iOS App Store and it lacks some of the most creative and useful apps by start-ups (like the credit-card reader Square). And Windows isn’t supported by many of the companies making intelligent devices that are controlled by your phone, like health-tracking devices or smart home appliances. There are no official Windows Phone apps to support the Fitbit health tracker, the Withings bathroom scale, the Nest home thermostat or Sonos’ multiroom speaker system.
    It's not disputable that apps like Uber and Square are immensely helpful to people in their daily lives. These are no Flappy Bird or the latest infinite runner game. They are available on iOS and Android, and not on WP. This is not arguable.

    Thus, I would like to ask you to expand further on this opinion.
    savagelizards likes this.
    02-20-2014 01:14 PM
  14. angusdegraosta's Avatar
    Sure, it seems to weigh the good and the bad, but the snarky comments like "But wait, there's less" are all designed to create negative spin.
    jgbstetson likes this.
    02-20-2014 01:57 PM
  15. unstoppablekem's Avatar
    LOL! Who really wants to play with their home thermostat when they're at work?
    Maybe to prepare it before they get home? :-/
    02-20-2014 02:01 PM
  16. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Maybe to prepare it before they get home? :-/
    If it's a modern thermostat it could be set with a timer to change automatically at specific times. No smartphones or apps are needed.
    palandri likes this.
    02-20-2014 02:03 PM
  17. ohgood's Avatar
    Sure, it seems to weigh the good and the bad, but the snarky comments like "But wait, there's less" are all designed to create negative spin.
    you might take it personal if it were your thesis being reviewed, but it is not.

    it is however the mobile os you prefer, and by being critical of it, things might just change. the nyt is going to sell the phone for Microsoft if/when it's ready to be compared in appville. but they're also going to dog it wherever required to get it there.
    02-20-2014 02:07 PM
  18. BobLobIaw's Avatar
    And I say that your numbers are ridiculous. To say, arbitrarily, without any reasonable data at all, that 95% of smartphone users will not be inconvenienced so, is unacceptable. The Uber app has significant advantages over the mobile site, which include Wallet integration such that I don't even have to take out my credit card. This is easily extensible to apps which are "niche" in your perception, but which may be of significant value for many people.

    Why should these people choose a platform which is objectively less capable than others? What benefit accrues by this to ME, the User?
    I can give my arbitrary opinion that is based on my observations of friends' and family's use of smart phones. Why are you holding me to a higher standard than the author of the article? He writes:

    "the Icon is a fundamentally hobbled device" and "the phone’s shortcomings will haunt you . . . ."

    He obviously isn't dealing with statistics, but is offering his arbitrary opinion. So am I.
    palandri likes this.
    02-20-2014 02:22 PM
  19. snowmutt's Avatar
    A lot of new construction will have the Nest and other similar devices. For instance, in Texas, the utility companies will give you a Nest for free with every new electricity connection because it saves energy in the long run. Here in CA, I get Rush Hour Rewards, discounts on my electricity bills because my Nest pre-cools the house before an expected hot period. Anyone who wishes to take advantage of these features will be handicapped by the lack of availability on WP.
    *steps up on soapbox, puts WP down, clears throat*

    The point is: We GET the point. Honest. But to continue to rail on the fact that WP is behind on apps in a piece that is -ahem- supposed to be "professional" is anything but. I truly expect ANY review of a WP device to pint out that WP is well less then half the apps in it's store as Android or iOS. But AFTER it is pointed out, MOVE ON!! Give your opinions of the the fact that since WP 8 was introduced, it has nearly doubled in apps. Point out where third party apps have helped ease the transition, even if they are not official. Point out that major developers are writing for WP at nearly the same pace as the big two, it is some of the smaller developers and speciality apps that WP needs to improve on.

    Then, be level headed enough to point out the unique workings and tools of WP. The growth it has seen in the last year.

    We know WP is not for the app warriors. I would never recommend it to someone who loads apps by the dozens just to try them out. But, there are literally thousands of Android/iOS users that DO NOT drool like St. Bernards at a water bowl over apps, and these users may find WP useful and enjoyable. But because bias like this, all they hear is life has no meaning in WP.

    Moronic, unprofessional, and honestly a bit sad.

    *steps off soapbox, pulls out WP, checks live tiles, chuckles*
    02-20-2014 02:46 PM
  20. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    *steps up on soapbox, puts WP down, clears throat*

    The point is: We GET the point. Honest. But to continue to rail on the fact that WP is behind on apps in a piece that is -ahem- supposed to be "professional" is anything but. I truly expect ANY review of a WP device to pint out that WP is well less then half the apps in it's store as Android or iOS. But AFTER it is pointed out, MOVE ON!! Give your opinions of the the fact that since WP 8 was introduced, it has nearly doubled in apps. Point out where third party apps have helped ease the transition, even if they are not official. Point out that major developers are writing for WP at nearly the same pace as the big two, it is some of the smaller developers and speciality apps that WP needs to improve on.

    Then, be level headed enough to point out the unique workings and tools of WP. The growth it has seen in the last year.

    We know WP is not for the app warriors. I would never recommend it to someone who loads apps by the dozens just to try them out. But, there are literally thousands of Android/iOS users that DO NOT drool like St. Bernards at a water bowl over apps, and these users may find WP useful and enjoyable. But because bias like this, all they hear is life has no meaning in WP.

    Moronic, unprofessional, and honestly a bit sad.

    *steps off soapbox, pulls out WP, checks live tiles, chuckles*
    There are also many people who do not need any special gadgets or apps for certain activities. I belong to a gym and exercise regularly. I have no desire to get any Fitbit or other types of gadgets. I hit my target heart rate and measure it without needing a bracelet to do it for me. One does not need special gadgets to exercise (or even gym memberships or gym equipment for that matter). Running outdoors with no special gadgets or equipment will produce the same results.
    02-20-2014 02:56 PM
  21. savagelizards's Avatar
    Just out -

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/20/te...ework.html?_r=

    The author calls WP a "...second-class digital existence." Poor guy can't find his favorite trivia game.

    Who pays these people to be shmucks? I hope Nadella and the phone team respond with great stuff in the months ahead. I have a 920, am excited about the Icon, and I really want these kinds of articles to go away.
    Quite frankly, there's nothing wrong with what he said, and he was very complimentary to both Nokia and Microsoft.

    I feel that am his case in point. After visiting a Microsoft store on Monday (but they didn't have the Icon on display yet), I finally held one in in my hand today at the Verizon store. After speaking with the Verizon rep and confirming that Microsoft could indeed renew my contract (I am on a corporate account - in the past Best Buy could not do so), I have concluded that I should instead head to the Microsoft store to get my Icon. I may yet do so this evening.

    That said, it's clear that you have to want a WP to get one. I really do want one. I am heavily integrated with Microsoft's ecosystem. I have a Surface Pro, and I use Microsoft's One Note, Outlook.com and Xbox Music apps on my android device now. For Microsoft, I am the low-hanging fruit of US smartphone marketplace, and I am used to running flagship equipment.

    And yet I have reservations.

    I intend to overlook them, but I cannot ignore them. If everything goes well, I hope to get a great piece of smartphone hardware and an integrated ecosystem of services. And a mostly good selection of apps. However, I KNOW I can buy a Galaxy Note 3 and get a great piece of smartphone hardware and an integrated ecosystem of services. So I am substituting hope for a sure thing.

    Don't get me wrong here. I am not bashing WP, but built into my purchase decision is already that 8.1 will solve most of the shortcomings and I will get over the rest of it and learn to love my new device. I am losing my favorite Visual Voicemail service, Phone Fusion VisualVoicemail+, which has served me faithfully since 2009 and still continues to impress my friends. I contacted Phone Fusion, only to learn that they have no plans to support WP. That's just a small thing, maybe, but I am feeling some pain over it. And if some guy's trivia game is what he wants, and he can't get it, he is absolutely valid in sharing his personal experiences in an opinion piece.

    It's shortsighted not to understand that such small things figure into consumer behavior, and I am sure Microsoft is smart enough to recognize that these things do matter. Blackberry, on the other hand, did not, and never really understood why people wanted iPhones, and only grudgingly admitted that they did want them.

    The fact is, these critics are the very people that Microsoft must cater to. You won't make your product better by talking to your fans, but you will learn quite a bit by having a frank discussion with your critics. Should Microsoft listen - and I am in my own small way betting that they will - these are the folks that will be advancing the state of the art of my new WP. As with all networked devices, the more that are sold the more value each one produces. The biggest ecosystem produces the widest benefits.

    So I will be taking the plunge with WP. Overlooking all the barriers of entry and hoping it can replace my android experience. Maybe I will find a few hidden gems too. The driver for me is to escape Google, if I can. But be good to me, WP, or I won't be around for long.
    02-20-2014 02:58 PM
  22. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Quite frankly, there's nothing wrong with what he said, and he was very complimentary to both Nokia and Microsoft.

    I feel that am his case in point. After visiting a Microsoft store on Monday (but they didn't have the Icon on display yet), I finally held one in in my hand today at the Verizon store. After speaking with the Verizon rep and confirming that Microsoft could indeed renew my contract (I am on a corporate account - in the past Best Buy could not do so), I have concluded that I should instead head to the Microsoft store to get my Icon. I may yet do so this evening.

    That said, it's clear that you have to want a WP to get one. I really do want one. I am heavily integrated with Microsoft's ecosystem. I have a Surface Pro, and I use Microsoft's One Note, Outlook.com and Xbox Music apps on my android device now. For Microsoft, I am the low-hanging fruit of US smartphone marketplace, and I am used to running flagship equipment.

    And yet I have reservations.

    I intend to overlook them, but I cannot ignore them. If everything goes well, I hope to get a great piece of smartphone hardware and an integrated ecosystem of services. And a mostly good selection of apps. However, I KNOW I can buy a Galaxy Note 3 and get a great piece of smartphone hardware and an integrated ecosystem of services. So I am substituting hope for a sure thing.

    Don't get me wrong here. I am not bashing WP, but built into my purchase decision is already that 8.1 will solve most of the shortcomings and I will get over the rest of it and learn to love my new device. I am losing my favorite Visual Voicemail service, Phone Fusion VisualVoicemail+, which has served me faithfully since 2009 and still continues to impress my friends. I contacted Phone Fusion, only to learn that they have no plans to support WP. That's just a small thing, maybe, but I am feeling some pain over it. And if some guy's trivia game is what he wants, and he can't get it, he is absolutely valid in sharing his personal experiences in an opinion piece.

    It's shortsighted not to understand that such small things figure into consumer behavior, and I am sure Microsoft is smart enough to recognize that these things do matter. Blackberry, on the other hand, did not, and never really understood why people wanted iPhones, and only grudgingly admitted that they did want them.

    The fact is, these critics are the very people that Microsoft must cater to. You won't make your product better by talking to your fans, but you will learn quite a bit by having a frank discussion with your critics. Should Microsoft listen - and I am in my own small way betting that they will - these are the folks that will be advancing the state of the art of my new WP. As with all networked devices, the more that are sold the more value each one produces. The biggest ecosystem produces the widest benefits.

    So I will be taking the plunge with WP. Overlooking all the barriers of entry and hoping it can replace my android experience. Maybe I will find a few hidden gems too. The driver for me is to escape Google, if I can. But be good to me, WP, or I won't be around for long.
    I just checked Phone Fusion's site, and I wouldn't be surprised if that service is completely discontinued eventually. They haven't updated their site since 2009. It still mentions Windows Mobile 5 and 6. It also still shows Alltel as a supported carrier (Alltel has long since been bought out by Verizon).
    palandri likes this.
    02-20-2014 03:07 PM
  23. TripsG's Avatar
    Quite frankly, there's nothing wrong with what he said, and he was very complimentary to both Nokia and Microsoft.

    I feel that am his case in point. After visiting a Microsoft store on Monday (but they didn't have the Icon on display yet), I finally held one in in my hand today at the Verizon store. After speaking with the Verizon rep and confirming that Microsoft could indeed renew my contract (I am on a corporate account - in the past Best Buy could not do so), I have concluded that I should instead head to the Microsoft store to get my Icon. I may yet do so this evening.

    That said, it's clear that you have to want a WP to get one. I really do want one. I am heavily integrated with Microsoft's ecosystem. I have a Surface Pro, and I use Microsoft's One Note, Outlook.com and Xbox Music apps on my android device now. For Microsoft, I am the low-hanging fruit of US smartphone marketplace, and I am used to running flagship equipment.

    And yet I have reservations.

    I intend to overlook them, but I cannot ignore them. If everything goes well, I hope to get a great piece of smartphone hardware and an integrated ecosystem of services. And a mostly good selection of apps. However, I KNOW I can buy a Galaxy Note 3 and get a great piece of smartphone hardware and an integrated ecosystem of services. So I am substituting hope for a sure thing.

    Don't get me wrong here. I am not bashing WP, but built into my purchase decision is already that 8.1 will solve most of the shortcomings and I will get over the rest of it and learn to love my new device. I am losing my favorite Visual Voicemail service, Phone Fusion VisualVoicemail+, which has served me faithfully since 2009 and still continues to impress my friends. I contacted Phone Fusion, only to learn that they have no plans to support WP. That's just a small thing, maybe, but I am feeling some pain over it. And if some guy's trivia game is what he wants, and he can't get it, he is absolutely valid in sharing his personal experiences in an opinion piece.

    It's shortsighted not to understand that such small things figure into consumer behavior, and I am sure Microsoft is smart enough to recognize that these things do matter. Blackberry, on the other hand, did not, and never really understood why people wanted iPhones, and only grudgingly admitted that they did want them.

    The fact is, these critics are the very people that Microsoft must cater to. You won't make your product better by talking to your fans, but you will learn quite a bit by having a frank discussion with your critics. Should Microsoft listen - and I am in my own small way betting that they will - these are the folks that will be advancing the state of the art of my new WP. As with all networked devices, the more that are sold the more value each one produces. The biggest ecosystem produces the widest benefits.

    So I will be taking the plunge with WP. Overlooking all the barriers of entry and hoping it can replace my android experience. Maybe I will find a few hidden gems too. The driver for me is to escape Google, if I can. But be good to me, WP, or I won't be around for long.
    Well said. I too had to decide if I wanted to leave the comfort of Apple's iOS that I'd had since the day the first iPhone was released or take the plunge to a new ecosystem. My frustration was twofold as I felt Apple was mired in the same expensive hardware loop while bringing little new to the software, and I was splintered between Apple and MS with my work devices. While I don't have the obsessions over apps like most seem to have (full disclosure, if my bank app wasn't on WP I'd be pretty peeved, but I know I'd work around it) I have what I need and a few things that I didn't think I'd want, but now use daily.

    Point being I made the plunge for a similar reason. I wanted something new but, more importantly, I wanted to repair the fractured ecosystem I was living. Now I have it all at my fingertips, Lumia 1520, Surface Pro, all Office apps and OneDrive to make it all complete. I want for nothing but look forward to the updates coming which will only enhance an already wonderful experience for me.

    Yes, there are some things that need smoothing around the edges and I believe they will get there very quickly. Xbox music is better than it has ever been and only getting better, but still not the experience that I get with Spotify. I still find that MS can't seem to get all things lined up right such as the new office.com rollout. It still seems jumbled and fractured somehow. If you go to icloud.com and log in it is so clean and together, and it's not in multiple places. My hope is MS gets there soon as I believe they will. But it's the small, annoying things for me that just drive me bat-s*** crazy.

    Anyway, I believe you'll love your new phone experience. Hopefully you'll keep us apprised of your progress.
    02-20-2014 03:22 PM
  24. MicrosoftNorthstar's Avatar
    One does not need special gadgets to exercise (or even gym memberships or gym equipment for that matter). Running outdoors with no special gadgets or equipment will produce the same results.
    Well said. And Windows Phone has an abundant selection of running tracking apps like Caledos, MiCoach, etc.
    02-20-2014 04:31 PM
  25. muneshyne21's Avatar
    Loud Noises!
    02-20-2014 04:31 PM
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