03-26-2014 09:41 AM
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  1. Morpheus Phreak's Avatar
    Yah I'm in Redmond (microsoftville) and use the Bellevue ms store. When I got my surface 2 on launch weekend everyone seemed genuinely excited for me.
    I've been there and the University Village store a couple times.

    I have a friend (known him for years) that works at the Bellevue store.

    I prefer the Bellevue Square location, but both seem staffed by some pretty sharp people.

    I'm not the type that tends to give praise easily, but those folks have earned it.
    02-27-2014 12:04 AM
  2. StevoPhilo's Avatar
    So I gotta say after reading every post I feel determined to go out to all the carrier kiosk stands in the mall and test some WP knowledge with some associates. =P
    02-27-2014 02:27 AM
  3. radmanvr's Avatar
    I went out to the Microsoft store here in Houston @ the Galleria. I still hate parking there and that place is so huge I hate walking around in there but nonetheless I arrived at the Microsoft store. I already have an Icon but I acted as if I was interested in the Icon and the representatives were really nice and spot on. They were showing me some neat tricks with WP and telling me how much faster and fluid it is compare to other OS. They did admit that some apps are missing from the OS but emphasized that its not Microsoft's fault for missing apps its devs laziness. I had a great experience there. Sorry OP that your experience did not go so great.
    02-27-2014 07:44 AM
  4. fdalbor's Avatar
    While I can understand the thoughts about poor service and lack of insight we need to all take a long look at the nature of the beast. It seems a lot of people get very defensive when someone else degrades their choice of smartphones. Its a phone people not something that is going to change the way we live. I like WP8 phones and that is what me and my family uses. But I also have two Android tablets, and several desktop and laptop computers that run Windows and Linux. If someone uses a Apple product (I don't have any) thats fine with me. But it does not reflect on my lack of Apple products. I just choose not to use them. To rant on about one being better than the other or not is a bit of wasted breath. They are all so close to one another the adverage person can't tell the difference. And they are getting closer and closer to being the same.

    If you choose to champion one brand over another thats fine; we all need causes. But no need to degrade someone who champions another brand. In the end we are all going to have dirt shoveled in our faces and the type of phone we used or computer we sat in front of is not going to matter. Peace brother, no matter what you use; or don't use.
    mpt15, tgp, dkediger and 1 others like this.
    02-27-2014 08:12 AM
  5. Starrbuck's Avatar
    I share your outrage at a salesman who says things that he apparently personally believes. Whatever happened to good old fashioned soulless corporate dissembling?
    Of course they are allowed to have opinions, but what they base them on in this case most of us here disagree with. After all, we are on the WPC forums!!!
    02-27-2014 08:49 AM
  6. Starrbuck's Avatar
    I know you already said this is not the point of the thread... But you say you own all of those devices... And you had never checked if the apps you wanted were available before buying yet another phone? Or were you expecting that all of the sudden the applications were available just for the Icon?
    Before I went from iPhone to Icon last week, I looked at my iPhone and asked myself if there were any apps I absolutely couldn't do without and the answer was no! :)
    02-27-2014 08:52 AM
  7. spicypadthai's Avatar
    My experience at the Natick, MA store yesterday was very good. They were having internet issues so it took longer than it should, but I wasn't in a rush and the upgrade went smoothly. Had everything I needed transferred over within minutes once we got through the connection problem. Good guys, knew their stuff, passionate about the platform, understood the Verizon system better than most of the Verizon store reps, and I even got a couple Titanfall tips. Highly recommended location and as a bonus, you get to walk by the Apple store two stores down and see all the cattle grazing and drinking the Kool Aid...
    aximtreo likes this.
    02-27-2014 09:54 AM
  8. hopmedic's Avatar
    For me - Discover, Amex, Nest, workable CVS, HiltonHonors, Best Western, BillGuard and Google Voice, to mention but a few. I work in Consulting and the Amex, BillGuard and hotel apps are MAJOR for me. I use them week in, week out.

    You seem to be more concerned about the minor mention of app selection while ignoring the bigger problem in my initial post.
    I'm confused why you bought the Icon to begin with, since you already have a 1020 (for sale in the Marketplace here). Didn't you check the store for these apps when using the 1020?
    jleebiker and wapoz like this.
    02-27-2014 10:32 AM
  9. jnbnb's Avatar
    My experience with Microsoft stores was very goo! I went to the store located in times square in christmas 2012
    02-27-2014 10:43 AM
  10. The_Guest_Who's Avatar
    It seems a lot of people get very defensive when someone else degrades their choice of smartphones. Its a phone people not something that is going to change the way we live.
    Although I agree with your overall sentiment, I disagree that someone's phone doesn't change the way they live... in fact, my smartphone has changed my lifestyle in profound ways, from mobile internet (at speeds faster than what I get on wired home service) to location-based services such as maps and navigation. Due to the different "ecosystems" that surround each platform, one's choice of smartphone materially affects what services that person is able to utilize... creating small confederations of "Apple people", "Android people", "Windows people", and so on.

    If you choose to champion one brand over another thats fine; we all need causes. But no need to degrade someone who champions another brand. In the end we are all going to have dirt shoveled in our faces and the type of phone we used or computer we sat in front of is not going to matter.
    Ah, but it does matter... People view their choice in products as a reflection of themselves, an extension of their tastes and values. Did you ever notice that the majority of cases and covers for iPhones and iPads have a cutout on the back of them to display the Apple logo? The logo serves no purpose other than to advertise that the device is an Apple product, and people are more than happy to show off that logo so they can be associated with the "cool" people who use Apple products. When those people walked into the AT&T/Verizon/Sprint/Whoever store to buy that device, chances are that the sales rep played off that "cool factor" to make the sale - whether or not the iDevice matched the customer's needs may have been less important in the transaction. With the exploding popularity of Android (pushed up by VZW's Droid marketing and Samsung's "Next Big Thing" Galaxy ads), we see the same thing being played out from another camp - the tech-savvy geeks. If the phone geeks say that the Samsung Galaxy Whatever is the best choice, then by virtue of being a geek, they must be right...right?! It's got so many apps, and there must be an app for whatever I'm doing, and that Android robot is so cute, and the screens are huuuuuuuge, and the games, and... and... you see where this goes. Again, perception by others in the group create a need to buy into products that are favorable to that group.

    Where does that leave Windows Phone? It has features that more than satisfy most peoples' base needs (phone, SMS/MMS, email, web). It has several thousand apps, including a great deal of the core ones, however less of the hot-now-not-now types. The UI is easy to navigate, easy to customize. Cameras on the Lumia models are far better than others in their respective price ranges. On paper, Windows Phones should be standing toe-to-toe with the iPhones and Galaxies... but they're not. They're just not "cool".

    It's this perception that Microsoft's marketing and retail need to overcome. The "Honestly" ads honestly suck. There's nothing compelling that I'm seeing in those ads that make me think Windows Phone is desirable. The training and incentive programs for carrier retail need to be rejuvenated... hell, they need to be resurrected. The OP had a poor experience in a Microsoft corporate store... in our conversation here, this may have just been an edge case; when it comes to carrier retail, I think it's agreed that there's little to no respect for Windows Phone universally. My experience with T-Mobile shows me that their money's on everyone except WP... this past weekend, they were giving $200 credit for any BlackBerry trade-ins, with an additional $50 to upgrade to another BlackBerry... they were literally paying people to stick with BlackBerry, even over a better equipped Windows Phone!

    The end game here is survival of the platform. Without brand champions and ambassadors, without retail support, without popular opinion, Windows Phone will lose developers. Developers take their apps and services to a different platform, making the value of owning a Windows Phone less and less... until it dies. Look at PalmOS... Symbian... webOS... Maemo/MeeGo... and (possibly soon) BlackBerry.

    We shouldn't stoop to degrading and disparaging other platforms - granted, iOS and Android work for lots of folks - but we shouldn't just lay down and apologize for being a WP user either. When questioned, show them why your Windows Phone works for you - who knows, maybe that awesome Nokia Camera might be the thing that sways someone new over to WP. It did for me.
    02-27-2014 12:36 PM
  11. radmanvr's Avatar
    Although I agree with your overall sentiment, I disagree that someone's phone doesn't change the way they live... in fact, my smartphone has changed my lifestyle in profound ways, from mobile internet (at speeds faster than what I get on wired home service) to location-based services such as maps and navigation. Due to the different "ecosystems" that surround each platform, one's choice of smartphone materially affects what services that person is able to utilize... creating small confederations of "Apple people", "Android people", "Windows people", and so on.



    Ah, but it does matter... People view their choice in products as a reflection of themselves, an extension of their tastes and values. Did you ever notice that the majority of cases and covers for iPhones and iPads have a cutout on the back of them to display the Apple logo? The logo serves no purpose other than to advertise that the device is an Apple product, and people are more than happy to show off that logo so they can be associated with the "cool" people who use Apple products. When those people walked into the AT&T/Verizon/Sprint/Whoever store to buy that device, chances are that the sales rep played off that "cool factor" to make the sale - whether or not the iDevice matched the customer's needs may have been less important in the transaction. With the exploding popularity of Android (pushed up by VZW's Droid marketing and Samsung's "Next Big Thing" Galaxy ads), we see the same thing being played out from another camp - the tech-savvy geeks. If the phone geeks say that the Samsung Galaxy Whatever is the best choice, then by virtue of being a geek, they must be right...right?! It's got so many apps, and there must be an app for whatever I'm doing, and that Android robot is so cute, and the screens are huuuuuuuge, and the games, and... and... you see where this goes. Again, perception by others in the group create a need to buy into products that are favorable to that group.

    Where does that leave Windows Phone? It has features that more than satisfy most peoples' base needs (phone, SMS/MMS, email, web). It has several thousand apps, including a great deal of the core ones, however less of the hot-now-not-now types. The UI is easy to navigate, easy to customize. Cameras on the Lumia models are far better than others in their respective price ranges. On paper, Windows Phones should be standing toe-to-toe with the iPhones and Galaxies... but they're not. They're just not "cool".

    It's this perception that Microsoft's marketing and retail need to overcome. The "Honestly" ads honestly suck. There's nothing compelling that I'm seeing in those ads that make me think Windows Phone is desirable. The training and incentive programs for carrier retail need to be rejuvenated... hell, they need to be resurrected. The OP had a poor experience in a Microsoft corporate store... in our conversation here, this may have just been an edge case; when it comes to carrier retail, I think it's agreed that there's little to no respect for Windows Phone universally. My experience with T-Mobile shows me that their money's on everyone except WP... this past weekend, they were giving $200 credit for any BlackBerry trade-ins, with an additional $50 to upgrade to another BlackBerry... they were literally paying people to stick with BlackBerry, even over a better equipped Windows Phone!

    The end game here is survival of the platform. Without brand champions and ambassadors, without retail support, without popular opinion, Windows Phone will lose developers. Developers take their apps and services to a different platform, making the value of owning a Windows Phone less and less... until it dies. Look at PalmOS... Symbian... webOS... Maemo/MeeGo... and (possibly soon) BlackBerry.

    We shouldn't stoop to degrading and disparaging other platforms - granted, iOS and Android work for lots of folks - but we shouldn't just lay down and apologize for being a WP user either. When questioned, show them why your Windows Phone works for you - who knows, maybe that awesome Nokia Camera might be the thing that sways someone new over to WP. It did for me.
    The_Guest_who used wall of text. It was super effective. Radmanvr runs away.
    02-27-2014 01:30 PM
  12. Citizen X's Avatar
    Word salad is usually a reference to Aphasia...

    So I'm not sure how it would fit into this context.
    Sounds like someone is suffering from concrete thinking.
    02-27-2014 02:23 PM
  13. Citizen X's Avatar
    You seem to be more concerned about the minor mention of app selection while ignoring the bigger problem in my initial post.
    Missing apps is a big problem if they are apps you need. You could have saved yourself the trouble of this entire odyssey if you followed my number one rule. First thing you do is check to see if the ecosystem has your must have apps. If not it doesn't matter if there are 500,000 apps in the app store. I love Windows Phone but the app store is missing my bank's app and an app for an airline I use. If someone used those apps a lot I can see them not using Windows Phone. Honestly one of the missing apps is really inconvenient.
    02-27-2014 02:27 PM
  14. mmcpher's Avatar
    Nice wrinkle on the blindingly novel, "app deficit" lament! Just kidding, but I am unmoved by an Apple loyalists' anecdote and It strikes me odd that someone with such a lengthy and well-defined roster of required essential phone apps would blunder into a new platform where none of your needs were met. Still, the point that Apple and Android maintain an app-advantage remains valid, no matter how many dead-horse carcases pile up around it.

    I do not think that an anecdote that demonstrates that there are singularly inept salespeople in a tech store warrants breaking news status. At least the guy had enough information to have an opinion, however idiotic it might have been for him to share with a potential customer in a store that sold Windows products, and not Apple products. Maybe he is a failed Apple acolyte, banished from their tabernacle, bitterly resigned to his fate to wander in the Windows wilderness.

    My experience with Microsoft employees has been much better and different than yours. They have been uniformly well-informed and courteous and confident in their products, and this cuts across software, gaming, hardware and phones. They have lacked that certain partisan arrogance that we all love so well though.
    02-27-2014 02:52 PM
  15. spicypadthai's Avatar
    The_Guest_Who raises some very good points. I posted earlier about my visit to a MS store yesterday which happened to be two stores down from an Apple store in the same mall. I walked past the Apple store on my way in and there was 10x the number of people in it than the MS store. I didn't do a hard count but it looked like mostly kids with parents in Apple vs. single individuals, most 25 or older, at MS. The "cool factor" can not be understated and Apple is the master of controlling and cultivating it. Steve Jobs used to obsess over things like the back of the iMac where the cords plugged in and he was always proud of how sleek and cool it looked and that was what he wanted to show people who would then ask him why he cared so much about the back of a machine? His response, and I agree with him, was that the perception people have of you and your product is driven by your worst attributes, not your best. After Vista and the bungled Windows 8 launch with no Start button and the slapped on tiles and all their maddening licensing models, I think MS is finally getting it. They appear genuinely humbled by not being the 800 pound gorilla they once were. Humility doesn't necessarily lead to "cool" but it's a start.
    02-27-2014 03:03 PM
  16. Morpheus Phreak's Avatar
    Sounds like someone is suffering from concrete thinking.
    Not at all. I have had intermittent aphasia since the age of 3 due to multiple head injuries from epilepsy and related falls.

    If anything my thinking is more fluid than most. I learned to read when I was 2 before the damage, and had to learn it all again...and did before even entering Kindergarten.

    My speech centers and physical centers took longer. I spent years doing cognitive therapy learning how to work around the damaged areas. It is also why I spent over a decade taking professional dance lessons.

    I still wind up hearing, reading, and speaking 'word salad' on occasion and will for life. With all that I've still managed to have a career working on some amazing projects.

    Just goes to show that sometimes it is wise to use caution when speculating eh Citizen X? ;) :P
    02-27-2014 04:50 PM
  17. Citizen X's Avatar
    Not at all. I have had intermittent aphasia since the age of 3 due to multiple head injuries from epilepsy and related falls.

    If anything my thinking is more fluid than most. I learned to read when I was 2 before the damage, and had to learn it all again...and did before even entering Kindergarten.

    My speech centers and physical centers took longer. I spent years doing cognitive therapy learning how to work around the damaged areas. It is also why I spent over a decade taking professional dance lessons.

    I still wind up hearing, reading, and speaking 'word salad' on occasion and will for life. With all that I've still managed to have a career working on some amazing projects.

    Just goes to show that sometimes it is wise to use caution when speculating eh Citizen X? ;) :P
    It was a joke. The term "word salad" is used in forum vernacular pretty commonly these days by lay people. It is not referring to the actual medical term.

    Nice wrinkle on the blindingly novel, "app deficit" lament! Just kidding, but I am unmoved by an Apple loyalists' anecdote and It strikes me odd that someone with such a lengthy and well-defined roster of required essential phone apps would blunder into a new platform where none of your needs were met. Still, the point that Apple and Android maintain an app-advantage remains valid, no matter how many dead-horse carcases pile up around it.
    Yeah "lack of apps" is a legitimate complaint in certain niche situations. But considering most apps that are downloaded are used only a handful of times before being abandoned it does get overused. Having said that though I tell everyone to look before they leap. It's not hard to see if Windows Phone has the apps you need before you switch.
    02-27-2014 07:19 PM
  18. muneshyne21's Avatar
    I walked past the Apple store on my way in and there was 10x the number of people in it than the MS store. I didn't do a hard count but it looked like mostly kids with parents in Apple vs. single individuals, most 25 or older, at MS. The "cool factor" can not be understated and Apple is the master of controlling and cultivating it.
    Here's the kicker that I noticed a while ago about the "Cool" Apple Store:
    This is a conversation I had with myself while I was playing with the new MacPro (I wanted to see what this awesome trash can was all about. It is pretty nuts the power they put into such a small footprint)
    Of the plethora of people in the store, where are they?
    Most are in the back.
    What are they doing? Buying stuff?
    No just hanging out for some weird reason...
    What is in the back?
    Customer support/service
    You mean to fix problems and help people find their photos folders on their desktop?
    Yup.
    But I thought Macs were greater than Jesus and just as flawless...
    Guess not.
    So the majority of this store is a GeekSquad office? People aren't here because they just love hanging out in the store
    Guess So. Guess not.
    Ooohh...Im hungry, lets gets some noodles...
    Indistinguishable likes this.
    02-27-2014 08:49 PM
  19. AngrySprintUser's Avatar
    I've been there and the University Village store a couple times.

    I have a friend (known him for years) that works at the Bellevue store.

    I prefer the Bellevue Square location, but both seem staffed by some pretty sharp people.

    I'm not the type that tends to give praise easily, but those folks have earned it.
    Carson at the U Village is great person to help you out
    02-28-2014 01:04 AM
  20. The_Guest_Who's Avatar
    Missing apps is a big problem if they are apps you need. You could have saved yourself the trouble of this entire odyssey if you followed my number one rule. First thing you do is check to see if the ecosystem has your must have apps. If not it doesn't matter if there are 500,000 apps in the app store. I love Windows Phone but the app store is missing my bank's app and an app for an airline I use. If someone used those apps a lot I can see them not using Windows Phone. Honestly one of the missing apps is really inconvenient.
    Back when I was a Symbian fan (still am in my heart), I followed Steve Litchfield on All About Symbian quite regularly... Steve's written several articles about the mobile web and mobile apps; with Symbian's app library on the wane, he's discovered that some well-designed mobile websites can fill the void left by a company that eschews our platforms-of-choice. See
    Smartphone users prefer apps to mobile web experiences?; the takeaway being that for those key missing e-commerce apps, there's often a mobile-optimized web site that can be pinned to Start and be nearly as functional. Not the best option, but better than nothing at all.
    02-28-2014 08:11 AM
  21. Reflexx's Avatar
    Back when I was a Symbian fan (still am in my heart), I followed Steve Litchfield on All About Symbian quite regularly... Steve's written several articles about the mobile web and mobile apps; with Symbian's app library on the wane, he's discovered that some well-designed mobile websites can fill the void left by a company that eschews our platforms-of-choice. See
    Smartphone users prefer apps to mobile web experiences?; the takeaway being that for those key missing e-commerce apps, there's often a mobile-optimized web site that can be pinned to Start and be nearly as functional. Not the best option, but better than nothing at all.
    Quite a few businesses are looking at web apps. It's a way to create applications once instead of recreating it for each platform.

    I would not be surprised if most new apps 3 yrs from now are web apps.
    03-03-2014 02:31 PM
  22. gernerttl's Avatar
    Here in Honolulu the Microsoft store is new... less than a year. Every time I visit has been a great experience. All of the sales reps are really enthusiastic about their products, as well as knowledgeable. As I was chatting with one, she mentioned that they have people coming to them all the time with a newly purchased Mac (The Apple store is just kitty corner from them) asking if they could install Windows on it for them.
    03-14-2014 01:30 AM
  23. reprod3's Avatar
    For me - Discover, Amex, Nest, workable CVS, HiltonHonors, Best Western, BillGuard and Google Voice, to mention but a few. I work in Consulting and the Amex, BillGuard and hotel apps are MAJOR for me. I use them week in, week out.

    You seem to be more concerned about the minor mention of app selection while ignoring the bigger problem in my initial post.
    I totally understand the bigger problem in your initial post but I just don't understand the huge push for an app for everything in your life. Forgive me for being so blunt.

    Companies should be more focused on enhancing their mobile web experience so that they don't have to build an app for every ecosystem that ever comes out. I think it just isn't a sustainable model at all.

    Web technologies are advancing. Their is no reason that Hilton Honors (for example) should need a dedicated app.
    03-14-2014 07:03 AM
  24. explosive0's Avatar
    I totally understand the bigger problem in your initial post but I just don't understand the huge push for an app for everything in your life. Forgive me for being so blunt.

    Companies should be more focused on enhancing their mobile web experience so that they don't have to build an app for every ecosystem that ever comes out. I think it just isn't a sustainable model at all.

    Web technologies are advancing. Their is no reason that Hilton Honors (for example) should need a dedicated app.
    Not sure if you're being serious or not. Take into consideration jsut the area of push notifications. How will this work on mobile web? Inquiring minds want to know.
    03-14-2014 04:31 PM
  25. Chris_Kez's Avatar
    Not sure if you're being serious or not. Take into consideration jsut the area of push notifications. How will this work on mobile web? Inquiring minds want to know.
    I agree that more companies should focus on mobile web. Done correctly they'll work across platforms, device types and sizes- and offer a more unified experience. How many apps do you need to get push notifications from? And can't they use SMS or email to send alerts?
    dkediger likes this.
    03-14-2014 04:43 PM
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