08-09-2014 09:13 AM
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  1. A895's Avatar
    I think you missed the "I feel" part of my comments. They're my personal opinion. You may not agree, but I watch people and how and why they do a lot of the things they do, and far too many people are concerned with how others think of them and how others interact with them. My opinion on how the OS' play out best is pretty well backed up by what we've seen from research on smartphone usage. There's a reason why satisfaction with Android is lower than the other OS's. It's overly complicated for the majority of users, while being the majority platform due to cost. The whole app situation goes back to my comment on people needing others to perceive them in certain ways. It is what it is.

    Most people, when you show them how WP can due to key things they need with the ease it does, are wowed and impressed. The apps, though, are a situation that does need resolving for those who just can't get past the fact that their friends are playing Cut the Rope and they can't.
    The smartphone satisfaction thing. I would like a source for that. Android is not complicated to use. It that was the case majority of android owners would have jumped ship to something simpler. But, they don't you here more people coming to android than leaving it. Also saying android is the majority because of cost is funny considering the majority windows phones are the cheapest ones and the most popular android phones (Samsung Galaxy devices) cost the same or similar to the iPhone. Also, its not that apps make you want to be perceived a certain way. Its just that some smartphone users use apps that are essential in day to day life. For example, I pay $5 a month for Evernote premium and I use Evernote to the up notes in my college psych class and take photos of anything important and put it in there etc. I think what you are thinking of is the newer generation who use smart phones for pure social media usage and entertainment.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    psychotron likes this.
    03-28-2014 07:48 AM
  2. cckgz4's Avatar
    How can he post a source from his personal experience with interactions from people OFF the internet? Y'all need to learn when to log off instead of trying to win every argument.
    jleebiker and admorris#AC like this.
    03-28-2014 08:14 AM
  3. cckgz4's Avatar
    You have to see KitKat 4.4.2. to judge android now. Its leagues better than any version before. My Droid RAZR M is fine on JB. But KitKat would make it a wonderful device.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    And just like any other smartphone platform supporter, everyone recommends that the user should try the "latest" to get the best experience ๐Ÿ˜
    03-28-2014 08:17 AM
  4. A895's Avatar
    And just like any other smartphone platform supporter, everyone recommends that the user should try the "latest" to get the best experience ๐Ÿ˜
    Just like all the windows phone users waiting on WP8.1?

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    psychotron likes this.
    03-28-2014 09:21 AM
  5. A895's Avatar
    How can he post a source from his personal experience with interactions from people OFF the internet? Y'all need to learn when to log off instead of trying to win every argument.
    That's wasn't personal experience.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    03-28-2014 09:22 AM
  6. psychotron's Avatar
    And just like any other smartphone platform supporter, everyone recommends that the user should try the "latest" to get the best experience
    Of course they do. Not sure what point you were trying to make there.
    03-28-2014 09:51 AM
  7. psychotron's Avatar
    WP8 is a young OS and it's going to take time for it to mature and even more time for the apps to come.

    The Icon is my first Windows Phone and I've had it since launch day. For me, it works for everything I need it to do and I'm happy I made the switch.

    It's unfortunate that it doesn't work for your uses. If the issues are show-stoppers for you, perhaps you should switch to an OS that you know supports all your uses for the time being. Perhaps in the future, WP and the apps on the platform will be able to offer you what you need and you can try the OS again then.
    I have to agree that that is a pretty weak excuse, and we as WP users are going to have to let go of it sometime. You can't just keep blaming that fact forever, especially considering that this many years into it's development cycle Android had already obtained nearly half of the worldwide market share. It also was facing problems with missing apps at the time as well. We need to start singing a new song, stop playing the blame game and MS needs to start doing a better job of positioning this platform to compete.
    theefman, A895 and DavidinCT like this.
    03-28-2014 09:55 AM
  8. psychotron's Avatar
    No, this is incredibly misguided.

    The market changed A LOT from when Windows Mobile was around to when Windows Phone 7 was released. Microsoft's experience in the market literally meant nothing. When WM was popular, most people used their cell phones to talk on and Smart Phone users were mostly business folk who expected their devices to be like PDAs and controlled them with styli or trackballs and keyboards. They used them to communicate and do business type stuff, no play games or browse Facebook. When the iPhone hit, it completely changed the market, and Palm, Blackberry and Microsoft were left scrambling. People didn't want to use Styli, and they didn't care about emailing their coworkers, they wanted to play games, browse the web, mess with apps, and use something with an attractive interface. Palm adapted first with WebOS, but they never got a foothold on the market, and HP mishandled them so badly, they vanished. BB relied on their stranglehold on the business market to stay afloat, and by the time they started adapting, it was too late. MS also scrambled, and was able to deliver Windows Phone 7, which was built on a version of the CE Kernel used in Windows Mobile. Of the three (Palm, BB, MS), they have the best chance of succeeding.

    Windows Phone required a complete rethink of how people use, and interact with their phones. MS basically went back to the drawing board, and you can argue they pushed 7 to market. Windows Phone 8 is significantly different from its predecessors, including Windows Phone 7... about the only thing they share is the similar looking interface. MS's experience in the market prior to WP was useless, they were going after a different target market using different input methods on different hardware. It actually would be to MS's favor for them to completely forget what they did in the past and start with a blank slate (and I wouldn't be surprised if that's what they did).

    Microsoft made a ballsy move pushing Windows Phone 7 out and then changing the kernel like they did, but they wanted to get the interface in front of people. It makes sense, push it out and try and steal some mindshare from iOS and Android. They also wanted to get the core functionality working well, which I actually applaud. You can either release a feature packed OS filled with features that mimic their competition but is plagued with performance issues and bugs, or you can release a slimmer OS with a rock solid core to build on. You wouldn't build a house on a shoddy foundation would you?

    Apple did pretty much the exact same thing, don't forget, when iOS was released it was missing core functionality that people using flip phones were accustom to. Apple wanted to get the phone in front of people betting they'd be sucked in to the new interface, and they were right. Time will tell if it works for MS.

    P.S. Android basically did the opposite. They crammed the OS with features and only recently began working to slim it down so it runs well.
    I don't get how this theory really holds up considering that Apple had exactly zero experience in the mobile market prior to launching the iPhone and yet gobbled up share at a phenomenal rate. Microsoft made one of the first smartphone OS'es so how could that count for nothing going forward? They already had teams of people experienced in UI and phone design in place whereas Google and Apple had to put those together from the ground up. I call BS. That's just rubbish.
    A895 likes this.
    03-28-2014 10:02 AM
  9. nasellok's Avatar
    Verizon pushes out the updates.Also the Motorola/Lenovo deal is not final yet. Patience is needed. The Razr M is supposed to get 4.4.2. I saw a remark that it may even come by late April or early May. Even if you had a WP you are at the mercy of your carrier with updates, though Motorola and Verizon have been on a role lately.
    If you download the developer preview app, and sign into your MS account, you can bypass carrier push of OS updates - this includes installing developer previews. It should be noted that developer previews are just that - and they may or may not have bugs. Either way, I had Android phones for 6 years, and a Windows phone since the launch day of the Icon - it hasn't slowed down a single time, and this includes playing graphically intense games like NBA Jam, FIFA14, and Asphalt 8. I can jump from game to game, and no slowdown, which says a lot about the coding of the OS, and the platform in general.
    aximtreo likes this.
    03-28-2014 10:12 AM
  10. A895's Avatar
    If you download the developer preview app, and sign into your MS account, you can bypass carrier push of OS updates - this includes installing developer previews. It should be noted that developer previews are just that - and they may or may not have bugs. Either way, I had Android phones for 6 years, and a Windows phone since the launch day of the Icon - it hasn't slowed down a single time, and this includes playing graphically intense games like NBA Jam, FIFA14, and Asphalt 8. I can jump from game to game, and no slowdown, which says a lot about the coding of the OS, and the platform in general.
    Good for you. Do you recommend this for regular consumers too? I doubt it. They are the ones at the mercy of the carriers. Just like I would never suggest an average consumer to root their phones. I'm tech savvy and I don't root. Android has matured enough where I don't need to anyways. If you used android recently you would know it runs just as good as any other platform now.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    03-28-2014 12:31 PM
  11. Indistinguishable's Avatar
    Good for you. Do you recommend this for regular consumers too? I doubt it. They are the ones at the mercy of the carriers. Just like I would never suggest an average consumer to root their phones. I'm tech savvy and I don't root. Android has matured enough where I don't need to anyways. If you used android recently you would know it runs just as good as any other platform now.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    For WP Enthusiasts? Yup.
    03-28-2014 01:21 PM
  12. BytorJr's Avatar
    Well, I did a factor cache reformat on my Razr M and it's now pretty sporting again. Meanwhile, I picked up a 521 (when I finish experimenting a friend's daughter will get it since MetroPCS uses this phone), and I must say, it is quicker than my Android 4.1.2. Speed test is faster as well, both on Wi-Fi. I am impressed with how quick everything loads and transitions. Explorer is faster than Chrome at loading pages, news apps like Fox and CNN load faster too on the 521. This was NOT expected to be so clear cut. It's scary a phone with 512 MB of RAM and a processor clocked about 500MHz slower can pretty much run circle around my Razr M.

    However, there are some really irritating points:
    1) first and foremost to me is the App folder. It is SLOW. If they could make this app folder more like Android to where one doesn't actually have to open an application to get to the application then this would be perfect. I like to group my apps in folders based on content (news, weather, sports, online magazines, etc, etc).
    2) Notifications of emails, etc at the top like Android does would probably seal the deal for me. I gather Glance could do this; but since Icon doesn't support this is a moot point. Simply put, I like being able to see what emails are coming through if I'm reading an article.

    All in all, I am impressed. I just don't know if I'm impressed enough to leave Android. Maybe...that deal on the Icon and 2520 is pretty tempting. But until the 8.1 release I'll be hanging tight. To further confuse issues, I may switch from Verizon back to AT&T. I gather AT&T is more supportive of Windows phones; though, I am thinking they don't have as much LTE bandwidth and building penetration still questionable (reason I left 3 years ago).
    03-28-2014 08:38 PM
  13. A895's Avatar
    Well, I did a factor cache reformat on my Razr M and it's now pretty sporting again. Meanwhile, I picked up a 521 (when I finish experimenting a friend's daughter will get it since MetroPCS uses this phone), and I must say, it is quicker than my Android 4.1.2. Speed test is faster as well, both on Wi-Fi. I am impressed with how quick everything loads and transitions. Explorer is faster than Chrome at loading pages, news apps like Fox and CNN load faster too on the 521. This was NOT expected to be so clear cut. It's scary a phone with 512 MB of RAM and a processor clocked about 500MHz slower can pretty much run circle around my Razr M.

    However, there are some really irritating points:
    1) first and foremost to me is the App folder. It is SLOW. If they could make this app folder more like Android to where one doesn't actually have to open an application to get to the application then this would be perfect. I like to group my apps in folders based on content (news, weather, sports, online magazines, etc, etc).
    2) Notifications of emails, etc at the top like Android does would probably seal the deal for me. I gather Glance could do this; but since Icon doesn't support this is a moot point. Simply put, I like being able to see what emails are coming through if I'm reading an article.

    All in all, I am impressed. I just don't know if I'm impressed enough to leave Android. Maybe...that deal on the Icon and 2520 is pretty tempting. But until the 8.1 release I'll be hanging tight. To further confuse issues, I may switch from Verizon back to AT&T. I gather AT&T is more supportive of Windows phones; though, I am thinking they don't have as much LTE bandwidth and building penetration still questionable (reason I left 3 years ago).
    Something tells me that something is slowing down your RAZR M. I had mines since December of 2012 and still runs fine.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    03-28-2014 08:46 PM
  14. muneshyne21's Avatar
    I don't get how this theory really holds up considering that Apple had exactly zero experience in the mobile market prior to launching the iPhone and yet gobbled up share at a phenomenal rate. Microsoft made one of the first smartphone OS'es so how could that count for nothing going forward? They already had teams of people experienced in UI and phone design in place whereas Google and Apple had to put those together from the ground up. I call BS. That's just rubbish.
    I think you maybe too young to understand the general perception of electronics in the 80's, 90's & 00's to adults and young adults that used them. These eras were dominated by desktops. First off, phones were a luxury item and only started to trickle into college aged kids in the early 2000's. These were basic phones. Not touchscreens yet for the masses. Before the iPhones and cheap latops the early 2000's were still reliant on desktop computers (crappy laptops still costs $2k) and your understanding of a cool phone would be that it runs like a mini laptop. There were no "apps" just programs, nothing finger friendly because not all smartphones had expensive touchscreens. The notion to touch the screen with your finger instead of a stylus was just ludicrous because you didnt want to smudge or damage your screen. The smartphone was a business tool that had a future to replace your desktop. Texting was tough most phones because you only had a keypad so we talked more on the phone but only after 8:00pm when free nights and weekend minutes kicked in. The only game at the time was Worm.

    This desktop mentality was the downfall of Microsoft/Palm/IBM/Blackberry. All their expertise and experience was their downfall because they were inside the box and thought no one wanted out. I think WM6.1 was still using a Windows NT kernel and it still had a tiny start button in the corner where a tiny pull down menu appeared with tiny options. There was a tiny control panel and tiny programs list...etc. To be fair, there were several prototypes and attempts to change the way smartphones were used but none of them had the right backing, timing and quality as the Apple iphone so it seemed like consumers didnt care for them. The Iphone comes out and it is a hit proving that a simplified touchscreen only based phone is a viable product. Now these huge juggernaught companies have to hit the breaks on their current projects and completely reinvent their OS's on a time schedule that usually takes several years into less than a year. Microsoft really messed up because they actually tried to compete with the archaic WM 6.1 for a while using skins to mimic the Android/iOS experience. If they just cut their loses earlier we would be past WP9 by now and probably have over 400k apps in the market.

    So all in all, for a revolutionary change in a mobile device, it was better to have zero experience and just a ton of talent. They werent bogged down by tradition and industry standards. They were able to look at smartphone usage with fresher eyes. Apple wasnt a big player before the iphone so why would Microsoft want to rock the boat if they were making good money on their tiny smart computers/phones? Where Microsofts expertise and knowledge was applied was how quickly it took them to turn the ship around...twice. Look at Blackberry. They couldnt do it in time.
    Last edited by muneshyne21; 03-28-2014 at 09:28 PM.
    A895 likes this.
    03-28-2014 09:11 PM
  15. BytorJr's Avatar
    A895, It seems to be running fine after the factory cache reformat. I don't have that much stuff. Normal banking, news, autoweek, motortrend and that sort of stuff. Nothing remotely out of the ordinary. I like the phone as it's almost the perfect size.

    muneshyne21, nice history lesson; but, people forget just how much Nokia squandered due to sloppy management not understanding what the engineers had developed.
    03-28-2014 09:19 PM
  16. muneshyne21's Avatar
    A895, It seems to be running fine after the factory cache reformat. I don't have that much stuff. Normal banking, news, autoweek, motortrend and that sort of stuff. Nothing remotely out of the ordinary. I like the phone as it's almost the perfect size.

    muneshyne21, nice history lesson; but, people forget just how much Nokia squandered due to sloppy management not understanding what the engineers had developed.
    Nokia actually had an iphone prototype before the iphone with a capacitive screen. I guess it was too big of a leap of faith for management. Symbian could have been iOS and Nokia would have been Apple...with better cameras.
    03-28-2014 09:34 PM
  17. A895's Avatar
    Nokia actually had an iphone prototype before the iphone with a capacitive screen. I guess it was too big of a leap of faith for management. Symbian could have been iOS and Nokia would have been Apple...with better cameras.
    Would it have had the support Apple had though?

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    03-28-2014 09:42 PM
  18. BytorJr's Avatar
    Good question there. The "STORE" is what made Apple. I'd argue Symbian was better (minus touch screen) than the first iPhone. It just didn't have the support. Nokia didn't market well; but again, the Symbian foundation didn't help build a store. It's complicated. The world changed and like it or not, Apple was at the forefront. I really want to like WP8+ (and my little test phone has been fun the last 2 days). Going forward, I can see Windows giving iOS a battle more than it can give Android a battle. One BIG thing Android has issues with is security and reading today about some things starting to come out, I'm starting to get more scared of Android. That said, I'm still fairly committed with my Phone and Nexus 7.

    The world would be very interesting had Nokia continued Meego and Symbian and merged them. They had a good idea; they just gave up for whatever reason (probably because it would have been more or less their ecosystem). Alas, I diverge here. Sorry.
    03-28-2014 10:18 PM
  19. psychotron's Avatar
    Apple didn't have the app store until almost a year after the iPhone was introduced and it still sold like hotcakes regardless, so whether or not that was actually a factor is pretty debatable.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using WPCentral Forums mobile app
    03-28-2014 10:28 PM
  20. A895's Avatar
    Good question there. The "STORE" is what made Apple. I'd argue Symbian was better (minus touch screen) than the first iPhone. It just didn't have the support. Nokia didn't market well; but again, the Symbian foundation didn't help build a store. It's complicated. The world changed and like it or not, Apple was at the forefront. I really want to like WP8+ (and my little test phone has been fun the last 2 days). Going forward, I can see Windows giving iOS a battle more than it can give Android a battle. One BIG thing Android has issues with is security and reading today about some things starting to come out, I'm starting to get more scared of Android. That said, I'm still fairly committed with my Phone and Nexus 7.

    The world would be very interesting had Nokia continued Meego and Symbian and merged them. They had a good idea; they just gave up for whatever reason (probably because it would have been more or less their ecosystem). Alas, I diverge here. Sorry.
    Android doesn't have a problem with security. Its tech pundits that do. No average Android user is concerned about security.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    admorris#AC likes this.
    03-28-2014 10:51 PM
  21. BytorJr's Avatar
    I'm certainly no expert here; but no large company that I have been associated with having an enterprise system trusts Android as a company supplied phone. I'd also submit that the average phone user doesn't understand security whatsoever. Google is trying to rectify this problem as reported on Yahoo! News - something more akin to Samsung Knox.

    I also read earlier today where some new trojan can bypass the way the Play store scans Apps for security issues. Basically the way I understood it, is that it fakes out the program to make Play think it scanned things. I'm still trying to find that article. If I do find it, I shall point to it. Ahh found it, it was about a parental control trojan built using Dendroid which basically defeats "Bouncer."

    Not trying to start a flame war...just know that; but there are security issues with Android and probably every other system known to mankind.
    03-29-2014 12:00 AM
  22. onlysublime's Avatar
    So it will be three weeks tomorrow since I picked up my Icon.

    I keep disconnecting calls because my ear touches the end button. Android solved this FIVE YEARS AGO. Can you really not sense when the phone is against someone's face and turn off the display until they pull it back away again? Sure, I can hit the answer button, then the power button BEFORE I put the phone to my ear, but if I need to look something up while I am talking, I have to hit the power button again, then swipe up to get back to the call screen. God forbid it's some type of notification, because then I have to go back to the start screen and start scanning tiles to figure out what just happened, then turn the phone back off again before putting it back to my ear.
    I just bought my Icon today. had the plastic wrap still on the phone and made a call and the screen turned black. forgot about the proximity sensor and was wondering why the screen turned black and was unresponsive to touch. then read the faq. removed the plastic wrap and the screen stayed lit during the call. waved my thumb in front of the proximity sensor (without touching it) and the screen turned off. so you don't even have to touch the proximity sensor for the screen to turn off and to lock out the buttons. You can hold your finger about an inch away from the sensor before the screen turns back on and the buttons are there. FYI, my screen was also set to normal touch (not the sensitive mode where you can use gloves).

    so it's got to be your phone. go exchange it. I got the $99 microsoft insurance (because I'm a klutz).
    03-29-2014 12:08 AM
  23. muneshyne21's Avatar
    I'm certainly no expert here; but no large company that I have been associated with having an enterprise system trusts Android as a company supplied phone. I'd also submit that the average phone user doesn't understand security whatsoever. Google is trying to rectify this problem as reported on Yahoo! News - something more akin to Samsung Knox.

    I also read earlier today where some new trojan can bypass the way the Play store scans Apps for security issues. Basically the way I understood it, is that it fakes out the program to make Play think it scanned things. I'm still trying to find that article. If I do find it, I shall point to it. Ahh found it, it was about a parental control trojan built using Dendroid which basically defeats "Bouncer."

    Not trying to start a flame war...just know that; but there are security issues with Android and probably every other system known to mankind.
    Sadly this is where Blackberry shines and it was positioned perfectly to be marketed as such. There's a reason why the US govt. just announced that they will be sticking with BB. The NSA news along with Snowden's Leaks would have been the greatest marketing ploy ever. Instead they tried to play the "we have touch screens and apps too" consumer game and got completely screwed. Talk about missed opportunities.
    03-29-2014 01:19 AM
  24. A895's Avatar
    Sadly this is where Blackberry shines and it was positioned perfectly to be marketed as such. There's a reason why the US govt. just announced that they will be sticking with BB. The NSA news along with Snowden's Leaks would have been the greatest marketing ploy ever. Instead they tried to play the "we have touch screens and apps too" consumer game and got completely screwed. Talk about missed opportunities.
    I even doubt even then they could have done something. I tried asking normal people when I worked at a Barned and Noble and they was like "Who cares, already knew the government was spying on us". Because honestly what normal person would care? They have more pressing life issues bills, kids, etc. Also add on the fact it took until recently fore BlackBerry devices to even be able load Android apps from the web browser they still could not have done anything.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    03-29-2014 06:20 AM
  25. A895's Avatar
    I'm certainly no expert here; but no large company that I have been associated with having an enterprise system trusts Android as a company supplied phone. I'd also submit that the average phone user doesn't understand security whatsoever. Google is trying to rectify this problem as reported on Yahoo! News - something more akin to Samsung Knox.

    I also read earlier today where some new trojan can bypass the way the Play store scans Apps for security issues. Basically the way I understood it, is that it fakes out the program to make Play think it scanned things. I'm still trying to find that article. If I do find it, I shall point to it. Ahh found it, it was about a parental control trojan built using Dendroid which basically defeats "Bouncer."

    Not trying to start a flame war...just know that; but there are security issues with Android and probably every other system known to mankind.
    No flame war here. Though it is true no one cares about security. If they did they wouldn't use all these social networks. Also, Google is reportedly aiming the next version of Android for security. But then again Android as a whole is pretty secure because it is open, but user error combined with very rare of bad apps from the play store make it more vulnerable.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    03-29-2014 06:24 AM
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