08-09-2014 09:13 AM
218 123 ...
tools
  1. savagelizards's Avatar
    So it will be three weeks tomorrow since I picked up my Icon.

    When I first got it, I was frustrated, and the learning curve seemed huge. Then I started to resolve some problems learning from others about what apps I should pick up to do what I wanted to do. Notifications were a sticking point, but that would all be solved with 8.1, coming in April. So I decided to hang in there. I was committed.

    I still am, but I feel like I have committed myself to being on the outside looking in - like a mid-90's Mac user watching all the cool programs my friends running Windows rigs had access to. Despite what Nokia says, the app issue is a real issue. Even when there apps, they don't have all the features or the timely updates of their Android brethren.

    But that's not all. Many apps never interested me with Android, since I would never want to download an app to do anything I could do on a webpage to begin with. It really didn't make sense. But there are apps other phones don't need that WP does. They don't exist either.

    This is my first WP, but what I've learned is that a lot of the things I could do with my Android browser just don't work on a WP browser. And I am not just talking about Internet Explorer, either, although why Microsoft can't create a browser with some 1997 features like forward and back keys doesn't make any sense, but the beloved UC browser can't do it either.

    For example, I was watching the NASCAR race on Sunday and I got up to do some work. I wanted to listed to it with headphones on MRN, so I fired up the UC browser, headed over to MRN radio and... nothing. A link to take me to another page that didn't work. A note that if I couldn't access the audio to head over to the tuneinradio.com website. Which I did. Click through to another page, looks great there is a play icon and... nothing. It just couldn't be done. I stopped by the Microsoft store the next day and they told me if a page does not support HTML5 for audio and video it just won't work. Period.

    So I would need MRN to create an app for WP. But of course they haven't. If you are considering a WP, I would caution you that you should not expect to do everything in a WP browser that you are used to. Part of the app gap that is invisible to outsiders is the apps that aren't yet created to do things you don't need an app for elsewhere. Check your usual browser workflow and make sure those pages all work before you make the move - so you know what you are getting yourself into.

    This is by way of example, but it happens all the time. And the IE browser is limited to SIX tabs (about 10 less than my android browser, and I would hit that limit occasionally). Why? But it is. And despite loading the UC browser, IE is still the browser the system uses when you want to follow a link in an email. So I get to six a lot. At which point the browser just uses the last tab to load the new page, causing me to lose whatever work I had been doing in the last tab.

    Then there is the WP OS itself. It seems to be missing about half of the settings you need. They apparently went for a minimalist feel to hide the lack of OS functionality. Microsoft has been in the mobile OS business for over a decade, so it's surprising they have not yet figured out what folks are doing with their phones. I keep disconnecting calls because my ear touches the end button. Android solved this FIVE YEARS AGO. Can you really not sense when the phone is against someone's face and turn off the display until they pull it back away again? Sure, I can hit the answer button, then the power button BEFORE I put the phone to my ear, but if I need to look something up while I am talking, I have to hit the power button again, then swipe up to get back to the call screen. God forbid it's some type of notification, because then I have to go back to the start screen and start scanning tiles to figure out what just happened, then turn the phone back off again before putting it back to my ear.

    Sure this is only a few seconds here and there, but it's disconcerting for my caller. Sometimes these extra seconds matter. And don't get me started about call waiting - it takes lots of extra time to switch back and forth between two callers, turning the screen on and off manually and swiping upward all the time. But if you don't take the time to do that, you are suddenly speaking to the wrong caller, without knowing. Yes, you can use speakerphone to solve most of this, but speakerphone is not always appropriate.

    Again, I should not have to come up with workarounds for things that the phone should just do. And when smarter people than I come up with a 3rd party app to fix limited functionality in the browser or calendar, etc., they are limited in their functionality as well, because WP does not let them integrate with the system. So I can't move an appointment with True Calendar 8, which I had to pay for because Microsoft could not build a week view in to their calendar app (although they master calendars with Outlook and have been doing so for two decades... explain that). I can't tell the OS to open links in UC browser. I can't use my voice to dictate into any text box in any application I want without limitations.

    I guess I am most frustrated because ALL of these limitations are in things Microsoft not only controls but excels in already. Why can't I dictate an entire Word document in WP like I could in Documents to Go in 2010? Why can't I create a PowerPoint in the Office App? Why can't I snap a second app into place on my screen like I can with my Surface Pro? Why can't use file explorer to access files on my phone like I can with WP 8/8.1? Why can't I attach anything but a photo to an email when Outlook is the most flexible email client anywhere?

    At the end of the day, I guess I wasn't afraid of WP because I was already wired into the Microsoft ecosystem and I liked it all. But even the Microsoft apps on Android work better than their WP counterparts.

    So be careful if you are considering WP. You might think you're getting The Windows 8 experience on a phone. But you're really getting Windows Phone 8. It might look like a small change but it is a world away from the same experience.

    I didn't know this post was going to be so long. I thought of deleting everything and just writing "C'mon, Microsoft... you are smarter than this." Because they are. But maybe I just needed to get some stuff off my chest. I will probably have a lot of these posts over the next two years... unless maybe Windows 9 will run on my Icon?
    03-12-2014 07:26 AM
  2. Chregu's Avatar
    I keep disconnecting calls because my ear touches the end button. Android solved this FIVE YEARS AGO. Can you really not sense when the phone is against someone's face and turn off the display until they pull it back away again? Sure, I can hit the answer button, then the power button BEFORE I put the phone to my ear, but if I need to look something up while I am talking, I have to hit the power button again, then swipe up to get back to the call screen.
    Your phone might be broken. I can't imagine that every WP since WP7 has this function except the Icon.

    You might think you're getting The Windows 8 experience on a phone. But you're really getting Windows Phone 8.
    I am sorry, but browsing through this forum just for an hours should really had make you aware of this. There are enough threads complaining about missing functions, limited features and lacking apps.
    aximtreo, mpt15, jomarr and 3 others like this.
    03-12-2014 07:34 AM
  3. msweig's Avatar
    I don't have an Icon, but my L920 does not have the calling issue you are mentioning. Do you have an issue with your proximity sensor?
    rdubmu likes this.
    03-12-2014 07:36 AM
  4. Cryio's Avatar
    As @Chregu mentioned, the display turning off is very naturally and I haven't haven't had a problem with it and I seriously doubt the Icon isn't capable of this. Relatives of mine with L900, L800, L720, L520, 8X don't have problems either. In general, most Android phones can't do this. Generally only higher mainstream and high-end phones know how to do this.

    Windows Phone 7 and Windows 7 were two completely different OSes. WP8 and Windows 8 share SOME code, but it's about 30%, from what I've read. With the following WP8.1 update, they'll share some 50+% code. So definitely they're NOT offering the same experience, however sad that may be for the moment. I suspect snapping of apps should come in Threshold (8.5-9-?) or later.

    I guess you CAN'T created a PowerPoint doc is because you need desktop 16:9 formating and phones can't offer all options on such a small screen. Too bad indeed, but there must be a reason behind this.

    About browsers on WP. IE11 should fix whatever issues there are currently. Since the whole world was taking by storm by HTML5, I expect that in maximum 2 years everything should AT LEAST have a fallback on HTML if Flash isn't present.

    Also if you want whatever app that is available on iOS/Android, you could mail the devs and ask them nicely ^_^.
    03-12-2014 07:50 AM
  5. jschipmann's Avatar
    it's funny you say this :D I recently moved from a Galaxy S3 because I had issues with the proximity sensor and had to do the same work arounds on the phone to lock the screen before I put the phone to my ear.

    My Icon hasn't had any issues with the proximity sensor yet and I have yet to hang up on someone.


    Yes the apps are lacking and the control / integration is lacking in some areas (a lot to some). But you have to look at it this way... it's a phone... it isn't going to have all the features and control that a desktop does, (not saying the Op said this, I'm just saying :) ) and quite frankly I don't think it should. It should be simpler and easier to use with quick access to the functions you need. Do I think WP has a way to go, absolutely... and I hope more of what I am looking for comes with 8.1 and future updates as I would like to have that seamless ecosystem across my tablet, laptop, desktop and phone.

    Microsoft in my opinion has always been their own worst enemy. They have great ideas, push things out and then to quickly they move on to other things and end up not following through and keeping some support on some of their stuff. They should have started with their phones and tablets having the same OS with same store and app compatibility, not had it as an afterthought. Sure some changes in code between the tablet and phone but keep the core the same.

    Android is a different beast, it is based on linux and the core heart of linux is control, you can get to anything and do anything but it may be pretty convoluted to get there no to mention a steeper learning curve. I liked my S3 and I did a lot with it, a lot I will miss, a lot I hope others follow suit on and add in... but a lot I want left out. But because there are so many different hardware options sometimes things don;t run right with certain apps, especially on games I found.

    Apple... well... apple has the advantage sadly due to it's closed hardware. you buy an app on the phone you have it on the tablet, you know it will work on your older device and newer device as long as the dev still supports it or doesn't force you to upgrade your device because it doesn't support the current OS. Then there is the whole syncing with itunes crap that I absolutely loathed.


    Just like with anything in life you have to research before you buy to make sure it does what you need it and want it to before you buy in to it. I know I looked in to this for months before I bought my Icon (looking in to WP functions and limitations).
    Jacco Paauw likes this.
    03-12-2014 08:19 AM
  6. california86's Avatar
    WP8 is a young OS and it's going to take time for it to mature and even more time for the apps to come.

    The Icon is my first Windows Phone and I've had it since launch day. For me, it works for everything I need it to do and I'm happy I made the switch.

    It's unfortunate that it doesn't work for your uses. If the issues are show-stoppers for you, perhaps you should switch to an OS that you know supports all your uses for the time being. Perhaps in the future, WP and the apps on the platform will be able to offer you what you need and you can try the OS again then.
    NDCowpoke likes this.
    03-12-2014 08:22 AM
  7. Chregu's Avatar
    WP8 is a young OS and it's going to take time for it to mature and even more time for the apps to come.
    WP8 is older than iOS7.

    The OP is right when he says:

    Microsoft has been in the mobile OS business for over a decade
    This age thing is just a terrible excuse, and it only comes from users, never from Microsoft (because they probably know it's terrible).
    03-12-2014 08:40 AM
  8. tgp's Avatar
    This age thing is just a terrible excuse, and it only comes from users, never from Microsoft (because they probably know it's terrible).
    Exactly. I couldn't care less if it was released this morning. It has to compete.
    03-12-2014 08:50 AM
  9. lantern20's Avatar
    Are there any pieces of software that are "complete" when they are released?
    03-12-2014 08:59 AM
  10. fonefan's Avatar
    I had issues with the video playing when I pressed the play button. I realized, though, that on some videos, instead of pressing the play button, you have to touch on the top side or bottom side for it to play. Sometimes double-tapping it works. I know it's frustrating having to find ways around it, but nevertheless, there's a solution to the video problem.
    03-12-2014 09:13 AM
  11. xboxonthego3's Avatar
    I could solve one of your issues! We actually have a tuneinradio app.
    rdubmu and NDCowpoke like this.
    03-12-2014 09:31 AM
  12. california86's Avatar
    WP8 is older than iOS7.

    This age thing is just a terrible excuse, and it only comes from users, never from Microsoft (because they probably know it's terrible).
    Young as in immature, not as in dates of release. iOS7 has the several successful predecessors to build off of in terms of fuller functionality, greater polish, and more apps. WP does not have this benefit. Before WP there was Windows Mobile, which is a far departure from WP and an OS I personally didn't like.

    Do you use a WP? Although WP is not perfect, I personally don't think it's anywhere near terrible. I thoroughly enjoy the look and feel of the OS and it functions just fine for all my uses. It's not going to be that way for every user, but if you'd go so far as to think it's terrible, why do you use it?
    03-12-2014 09:39 AM
  13. Saksham Sharma's Avatar
    Oh and the six tabs limit is going away in windows phone 8.1 :)
    saintmonster likes this.
    03-12-2014 09:40 AM
  14. Chregu's Avatar
    Young as in immature, not as in dates of release. iOS7 has the several successful predecessors to build off of in terms of fuller functionality, greater polish, and more apps. WP does not have this benefit. Before WP there was Windows Mobile, which is a far departure from WP and an OS I personally didn't like.

    Do you use a WP? Although WP is not perfect, I personally don't think it's anywhere near terrible. I thoroughly enjoy the look and feel of the OS and it functions just fine for all my uses. It's not going to be that way for every user, but if you'd go so far as to think it's terrible, why do you use it?
    I didn't say WP is terrible. I say the excuse is terrible.

    I was using Windows Mobile for years before WP7 was released. I owned a Samsung Omnia 7, a Samsung Omnia W, a Nokia Lumia 800, a HTC 8X and a Nokia Lumia 620. If I found it terrible I wouldn't be waiting for a substantial update right now ;-)
    03-12-2014 09:42 AM
  15. tgp's Avatar
    I didn't say WP is terrible. I say the excuse is terrible.

    I was using Windows Mobile for years before WP7 was released. I owned a Samsung Omnia 7, a Samsung Omnia W, a Nokia Lumia 800, a HTC 8X and a Nokia Lumia 620. If I found it terrible I wouldn't be waiting for a substantial update right now ;-)
    I too used Windows Mobile a long time before WP7. I've had a Palm Treo 700w, HTC Diamond, Lumia 710, 920, 521, 520, and then I got another 920 since I had traded the first one. I still use the 920 & 520. I really liked Windows Mobile. It was certainly not user friendly, but it was very capable for its time.
    Chregu likes this.
    03-12-2014 09:49 AM
  16. Kage Maru's Avatar
    I didn't say WP is terrible. I say the excuse is terrible.

    I was using Windows Mobile for years before WP7 was released. I owned a Samsung Omnia 7, a Samsung Omnia W, a Nokia Lumia 800, a HTC 8X and a Nokia Lumia 620. If I found it terrible I wouldn't be waiting for a substantial update right now ;-)
    The work done on WM means nothing with WP since they basically started from scratch. So while it may not be the best excuse to talk about how immature WP is, it's also not accurate to assume all the work done with WM contributed much towards WP.
    gmlongo likes this.
    03-12-2014 10:45 AM
  17. nunyazz's Avatar
    The WP Mobile system reminds me of my cars.
    WP (I use a L928) is more like my classic '67 Camaro. And Android (Note3) is more like my new Acura TL
    I really like some of the features of WP, the way it runs, makes some things simple to use. But sometimes it feels lacking.Like a classic car. It's fun to drive, looks cool, but doesn't have all the bells and whistles my new car has and I have become accustom to.
    Nothing wrong with not having air conditioning or bluetooth.. I mean, it gets me from point A to point B with ease and it does it well. But sometimes I want all the accouterments that I know are available .
    This is where I think WP stands right now. It does many things very well, I just feel like I'm settling when I use it. There are apps that just don't cut when compared to Android. Functionality that just isn't there yet, but should be there by now.
    I too was an early adopter of Windows Phone, back in the HTC Sliders / Blackjack's and other Windows Mobile phones. Heck I even had an Apple Newton PDA back in the day (if anyone remembers those. lol)
    Microsoft has had ample time to get this ship running right by now. I'm not sure what the holdup is, but as it sits, it doesn't work well enough for me. Maybe after 8.1, probably not. Maybe more around 9.0 or 10.0 it will ready for me to try again. We will see....
    jleebiker, hs k and Nibs like this.
    03-12-2014 10:47 AM
  18. Saksham Sharma's Avatar
    The WP Mobile system reminds me of my cars.
    WP (I use a L928) is more like my classic '67 Camaro. And Android (Note3) is more like my new Acura TL
    I really like some of the features of WP, the way it runs, makes some things simple to use. But sometimes it feels lacking.Like a classic car. It's fun to drive, looks cool, but doesn't have all the bells and whistles my new car has and I have become accustom to.
    Nothing wrong with not having air conditioning or bluetooth.. I mean, it gets me from point A to point B with ease and it does it well. But sometimes I want all the accouterments that I know are available .
    This is where I think WP stands right now. It does many things very well, I just feel like I'm settling when I use it. There are apps that just don't cut when compared to Android. Functionality that just isn't there yet, but should be there by now.
    I too was an early adopter of Windows Phone, back in the HTC Sliders / Blackjack's and other Windows Mobile phones. Heck I even had an Apple Newton PDA back in the day (if anyone remembers those. lol)
    Microsoft has had ample time to get this ship running right by now. I'm not sure what the holdup is, but as it sits, it doesn't work well enough for me. Maybe after 8.1, probably not. Maybe more around 9.0 or 10.0 it will ready for me to try again. We will see....
    really man, dont quit wp, i personally love it, and i suppose all issues are going to disappear anyway when 8.1 comes... We need people on board !
    03-12-2014 11:05 AM
  19. savagelizards's Avatar
    Your phone might be broken. I can't imagine that every WP since WP7 has this function except the Icon.
    Your post got me experimenting, especially since I just lost another call this morning. So I made a call and then I held my hand above the phone, and you were right. The screen did go out. However, as soon as I moved my hand slightly, even while I was touching it, the screen popped back on and then started moving through selections. I suspect that's what's happening is that it's reacting to contact with my head or maybe I am not just keeping it steadily flat against my head. I may go back to the Microsoft store and see if there's an issue with the hardware, but it doesn't seem so. In fact, on of the things I like the most about my Icon is its build quality. It just feels like a well-built piece of hardware.

    I am sorry, but browsing through this forum just for an hours should really had make you aware of this. There are enough threads complaining about missing functions, limited features and lacking apps.
    I actually have ben browsing this forum since the fall, awaiting a new Verizon Windows phone. I was off contract since the fall, and would have bought a 1520 on day one, except Verizon didn't get it, only ATT. Most of what I had read was from helpful folks who were happy with WP and suggested apps and other work-arounds. One of the most common of those suggestions was that you could use a browser to replace many of the apps that folks were concerned about lacking in the WP store. I was okay with this solution, because that's how I normally operate anyway. What I didn't realize was that so many sites wouldn't function the same way in WP as they did in Android.

    The main motivation I had in moving to WP was to unwind my use of Google products. I fully expected WP to do things differently, but I didn't expect that there would be functionality gaps or that they would be so severe. Microsoft has much more experience in building mobile phone OSes, inasmuch as they have been doing so for a lot longer than Google.

    I have a Surface Pro, and that experience has been phenomenal. The hardware is well built and the Windows 8.1 OS is so natural to use. With Microsoft and Nokia working so closely together, I expected that the experience would be similar. Nokia did build a great device, and Maybe WP 8.1 will deliver on the hardware, but I am still confused as to why Microsoft didn't already have all this stuff in the OS long ago.

    From the outside in, my perception was that The hardware and OS were great and that the gap was in the apps. Now that I have the hardware and have a few weeks of experiencing the product, I am disappointed that Microsoft put out such a half-baked effort and even 18 months later there are still such obvious gaps in functionality, especially since every one of these problem issues is something they already do well in another product segment.

    I don't recall someone making this specific point on another thread.
    03-12-2014 11:11 AM
  20. reprod3's Avatar
    I agree with many of you in regards to the lacking functionality. Personally, I am waiting for WP8.1 even though I am essentially happy right now. WindowsPhone does exactly what I need it to do right now.

    Background: I came from Palm OS, WindowsMobile, Android to WindowsPhone.
    03-12-2014 11:15 AM
  21. savagelizards's Avatar
    I could solve one of your issues! We actually have a tuneinradio app.
    Cool... thanks. I downloaded it, but I am not sure how to get to MRN. I suppose I need to wait until they are live. But thank you so much - listening to a race while I am doing something else is something I would pretty commonly do.
    03-12-2014 11:21 AM
  22. xboxonthego3's Avatar
    Also we have a NASCAR app too if you're interested. You get more features with sprint or if you pay a fee I believe. It might be worth checking out.
    03-12-2014 11:27 AM
  23. savagelizards's Avatar
    Young as in immature, not as in dates of release. iOS7 has the several successful predecessors to build off of in terms of fuller functionality, greater polish, and more apps. WP does not have this benefit. Before WP there was Windows Mobile, which is a far departure from WP and an OS I personally didn't like.

    Do you use a WP? Although WP is not perfect, I personally don't think it's anywhere near terrible. I thoroughly enjoy the look and feel of the OS and it functions just fine for all my uses. It's not going to be that way for every user, but if you'd go so far as to think it's terrible, why do you use it?
    You see, this is an issue I have. Maybe Windows Mobile wasn't the best, or they couldn't explain it well enough, but when they moved away from WM for WP that does not mean they get to behave like this is the first product they ever designed.

    The first WP version was WP 7, so Microsoft clearly acknowledged that WP was the newest version of their OS, rebranded and with new code, but not a 1.0 product by any means.

    By the time that they designed WP 7, they should have taken all that user experience with prior versions of their OS and parlayed it into an absolutely great mobile OS, especially since they also had access to the OS of two major competitors in iOS and Android that were already in the marketplace. They didn't have to think all of this up, they could simply go into a store and buy competing products to see what features they should include. Where they should have had the edge was in knowing form their WM experience how to do a feature better than iOS or Android.

    So I refuse to accept that they are the new kids on the block and just coming up to speed. What it comes down to is that they just didn't put in the effort that they should have. They should raise their standards, not ask me to lower mine.

    I use lots of Microsoft products, and Microsoft sells a lot of gear and services because friends and relatives of mine see me doing things their Apple devices don't do. If I am excited about all my WP does that I couldn't do before, they could pick up a lot of WP converts.

    But when my wife saw me getting frustrated this morning and asked me if I wanted to use her phone instead I realized just how different my experience is than with my Surface Pro. If someone like me is getting frustrated, it's no wonder why Verizon and ATT reps don't want to sell WP to customers.
    A895 and greynightshirt like this.
    03-12-2014 11:37 AM
  24. Indistinguishable's Avatar
    Comparing WM6 to WP7 is like comparing MS-DOS to Windows 1.0. It's an entirely different approach to an operating system.
    TheArcaneFlame likes this.
    03-12-2014 11:44 AM
  25. savagelizards's Avatar
    The work done on WM means nothing with WP since they basically started from scratch. So while it may not be the best excuse to talk about how immature WP is, it's also not accurate to assume all the work done with WM contributed much towards WP.
    They might have started form scratch with new code, but they shouldn't have forgotten all the product knowledge. They didn't have to start with Hello World and go from there. They must have learned a lot about what people wanted with WM. Why wouldn't that knowledge be valuable? They understood all the device considerations, such as how to interact with wireless hardware, smaller screens, dialpads, etc. They knew a lot about ergonomics - how the human hand worked and what type of movements were comfortable and uncomfortable, etc.

    They had great financial resources, but also access to other product divisions that were already doing the same sorts of things, like the office group. For example, how is it that Apple, on whose desktop OS Microsoft's Office for MAC was the default productivity suite, was able to figure out how to build a calendar app better than the one that WP has, when the office group could have built the calendar app and syncing process themselves?

    They started from scratch to have more efficient code, but they shouldn't have had to forget everything they knew.
    quantum tao, A895 and AliNSiddiqui like this.
    03-12-2014 11:49 AM
218 123 ...

Similar Threads

  1. 929 wont pair with Bose 2 headset
    By troutchaser in forum Nokia Lumia Icon
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-12-2014, 03:59 PM
  2. Screenshots of Keyboards and Speech Packs in WP8
    By gagmani in forum Windows Phone 8
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 03-12-2014, 11:01 AM
  3. Cellular Data off and apps
    By Olav Vincent Ronning in forum Windows Phone 8.1
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-12-2014, 05:56 AM
  4. Internet problelm with Aircel in Lumia 520
    By meetvivek72 in forum Nokia Lumia 520
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-12-2014, 05:10 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD