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  1. dkediger's Avatar
    Instead of a horse it should be the ICON.
    Instead of a horse it should be Verizon.....

    We would all feel better.
    DavidinCT and jazz70 like this.
    11-07-2014 09:00 AM
  2. MikeSo's Avatar
    I really thought Microsoft Lumia would be releasing a new flagship before Christmas, at least to match competition on the iPhone6 front. It seems that flagships are coming out not as often as they should. Considering how many other low-end phones are released. I still love my ICON.
    It was reported that Microsoft had the codename "McLaren" flagship phone developed and scheduled for a fall 2014 release, but it was canceled abruptly with no replacement.
    11-07-2014 10:14 AM
  3. awilliams1701's Avatar
    None of those have anything to do with Microsoft. If Microsoft says anything bad about Verizon, Verizon could pull the plug on WP entirely or sue them or both. Keep in mind that the CDMA requirement means that Verizon and not Microsoft gets the final say on everything. Microsoft could actually update the 810 without T-Mobile's permission because its GSM. But they can't update the Icon until Verizon hands them the firmware with the CDMA keys installed.

    Combination of factors on Verizon...

    1. Htc OM8FW exclusivity contract
    2. Gripe about att 830 visual similarity to icon. Resulted in manufacturing change to dark aluminum.
    3. Cdma issues
    4. High firmware testing fees
    5. Lack of training/dedication to the platform
    6. Atrocious PR or lack thereof

    Microsoft has responded in suit with half assed support for Verizon devices. It's now cyclical and embittered between both companies and users suffer the delays.

    Not just Verizon, Microsoft is guilty also. Shame on them both.
    11-07-2014 10:25 AM
  4. Surmisation's Avatar
    Attachment 86788

    I would think it's #1 on your list as #3 works.
    We all know the HTC exclusivity contract has been the primary cause bogging the new FW's release. Other incidents are relative in the working relationship between Microsoft and Verizon. Let's be honest, by this point, it should be obvious the delayed release is as much Microsoft's failure as Verizon's. Because the failure lies in PR. There exists absolutely 0 reason for the 3.5 month silence. What was to prevent a monthly comment by somebody high up?

    "Rest assured. We're committed to updating all phones. Working with Verizon towards updating their lineup."

    It took Belfiore 3.5 months to do that. Ashsats
    OldMillXxX likes this.
    11-07-2014 11:05 AM
  5. awilliams1701's Avatar
    Lawyers plain and simple. Verizon probably had some kind of agreement that no announcements could be made about the Icon without their permission in order to carry the phone. If MS were to break that agreement, Verizon could sue the crap out of them.

    We all know the HTC exclusivity contract has been the primary cause bogging the new FW's release. Other incidents are relative in the working relationship between Microsoft and Verizon. Let's be honest, by this point, it should be obvious the delayed release is as much Microsoft's failure as Verizon's. Because the failure lies in PR. There exists absolutely 0 reason for the 3.5 month silence. What was to prevent a monthly comment by somebody high up?

    "Rest assured. We're committed to updating all phones. Working with Verizon towards updating their lineup."

    It took Belfiore 3.5 months to do that. Ashsats
    11-07-2014 12:19 PM
  6. gernerttl's Avatar
    I really thought Microsoft Lumia would be releasing a new flagship before Christmas, at least to match competition on the iPhone6 front. It seems that flagships are coming out not as often as they should. Considering how many other low-end phones are released. I still love my ICON.
    That is because everybody is trying to tap the low end market which Nokia was doing well in. The profit margin for high end phones is a lot smaller than for the low end side. Flagship devices only sell well in developed countries, this is why Apple is struggling outside of North America and Europe. The majority of cell phone users worldwide fall within developing areas. That is a HUGE market.
    PhalanxPunx likes this.
    11-07-2014 12:36 PM
  7. Surmisation's Avatar
    Lawyers plain and simple. Verizon probably had some kind of agreement that no announcements could be made about the Icon without their permission in order to carry the phone. If MS were to break that agreement, Verizon could sue the crap out of them.
    I was thinking the same thing until Belfiore tweeted what he did. It was generic, but at least it was from someone in the know.

    Listen, no one is defending Verizon. It's just worth acknowledging that Microsoft has played a part as well, and should not be given absolution from bearing any responsibility ESPECIALLY as it pertains to PR.

    It's bad blood between them which is why some dimwit from Microsoft's PR team couldn't call another dimwit from Verizon's and agree to some carefully crafted press release regarding the 8.1 update with coinciding firmware.

    Whenever somebody in this forum solely admonishes Verizon, it's an obscured criticism. Both companies failed to hoof it halfway, and both are to blame. Simple.
    Penny_1, SoapBox3000 and feeked like this.
    11-07-2014 12:41 PM
  8. jazz70's Avatar
    I was thinking the same thing until Belfiore tweeted what he did. It was generic, but at least it was from someone in the know.

    Listen, no one is defending Verizon. It's just worth acknowledging that Microsoft has played a part as well, and should not be given absolution from bearing any responsibility ESPECIALLY as it pertains to PR.

    It's bad blood between them which is why some dimwit from Microsoft's PR team couldn't call another dimwit from Verizon's and agree to some carefully crafted press release regarding the 8.1 update with coinciding firmware.

    Whenever somebody in this forum solely admonishes Verizon, it's an obscured criticism. Both companies failed to hoof it halfway, and both are to blame. Simple.
    75% Verizon's fault 25% Microsoft's fault

    Verizon seeming to do the bare minimum WP contractual obligations and gladly taking Microsoft's money, Microsoft's silence during this whole fiasco and letting Verizon treat WP customers like they do
    Indistinguishable likes this.
    11-07-2014 01:49 PM
  9. Surmisation's Avatar
    75% Verizon's fault 25% Microsoft's fault

    Verizon seeming to do the bare minimum WP contractual obligations and gladly taking Microsoft's money, Microsoft's silence during this whole fiasco and letting Verizon treat WP customers like they do
    Exactly the point. Verizon's nonchalance invoked a very negative reaction within Microsoft. Rather than cooperate with Verizon at least for PR purposes, MS let the speculation fester. It's been handled negatively by both sides.
    11-07-2014 02:47 PM
  10. onlysublime's Avatar
    Cyan is out with virtually every other carrier. Are you trying to say that Microsoft is intentionally crippling Verizon?

    Listen, no one is defending Verizon. It's just worth acknowledging that Microsoft has played a part as well, and should not be given absolution from bearing any responsibility ESPECIALLY as it pertains to PR.

    Whenever somebody in this forum solely admonishes Verizon, it's an obscured criticism. Both companies failed to hoof it halfway, and both are to blame. Simple.
    11-07-2014 11:22 PM
  11. gernerttl's Avatar
    Cyan is out with virtually every other carrier. Are you trying to say that Microsoft is intentionally crippling Verizon?
    How would this cripple Verizon?
    11-08-2014 01:38 AM
  12. onlysublime's Avatar
    How would this cripple Verizon?
    Beats me... He's arguing that Microsoft is also to blame for Cyan not being on Verizon...
    11-08-2014 03:33 AM
  13. Mr Hyde's Avatar
    Microsoft is partly to blame. Cyan firmware is a Microsoft product. But prior to that it was a Nokia product. So, there is a transition to consider. It only makes sense that any bugs that were found after the update was released be addressed on GSM phones first since that would address a larger percentage of the user base. If you remember, European GSM carriers got the update first. I would speculate that is because that represents the largest group of windows phone users. Since GSM was already addressed, ATT users got the update next. The work was mostly done so just some tweaks for ATT's system. Unfortunately, Verizon and CDMA represents the smallest amount of users of windows phone. It only makes good business sense to address this last. After the initial testing, I would guess that some tweaks needed to be done to the cyan firmware. I would also guess that the team assigned to correct any bugs put their tasks in some order of priority and Verizon just happens to be at the bottom of that pile.

    I don't Like it either as I am on Verizon also waiting for an update. But this is what makes the most sense to me. If I was Microsoft I'd be addressing my largest customer base first and not my smallest. With that said... I can also blame Verizon. I'm sure they took their time testing the initial update which caused some major delays. I also know that Verizon doesn't really care all that much about us windows phone users, pretty much for the same reason Microsoft put Verizon on the bottom of the bug fix pile. But for as much as I can't blame Microsoft for putting Verizon on the bottom of the pile, I can blame Verizon. I have seen and experienced Verizon sales people steer people away from windows phones. They tried to talk me out of my purchase. So I blame no one but Verizon for their lack of support for windows phone.

    Oh, and this is just my opinion. For what its worth
    11-08-2014 11:08 AM
  14. jazz70's Avatar
    like I said in my earlier post Microsoft deserves part of the blame of the situation us Icon users are in today but the vast majority of the blame can be put Verizon imho

    Verizon is the biggest most profitable wireless provider in the US, they have all the power in this relationship over MS with it's distant 3rd place WP

    I really don't know how much leverage MS has in this business relationship with Verizon to cause any real change in the way Big Red treats WP and that could be the reason for the months of silence from Redmond on the status of Icon, MS wants WP on Verizon's network and has to live with the way Verizon treats WP

    the bottom line is Cyan was announced in April 2014 and here we are @7 months later still waiting for a flagship device to be updated on Verizon, Denim at this point seems like a pipe dream
    Indistinguishable likes this.
    11-08-2014 12:10 PM
  15. PhalanxPunx's Avatar
    That is because everybody is trying to tap the low end market which Nokia was doing well in. The profit margin for high end phones is a lot smaller than for the low end side. Flagship devices only sell well in developed countries, this is why Apple is struggling outside of North America and Europe. The majority of cell phone users worldwide fall within developing areas. That is a HUGE market.
    This is exactly what I've been thinking for a long time now. Just look at all the apps and updates that go out to developing countries on a constant basis.
    11-08-2014 02:24 PM
  16. drewman77's Avatar
    My guess is there is a showstopper bug in Cyan for the Icon. It is fixed in the Denim release so rather than backtrack the fix from Denim to Cyan (which might be difficult or even impossible without a lot of effort), Verizon and Microsoft chose to wait for Denim.

    Knowing this would not be a popular decision as it made all of us wait, they chose to shut up about it until right before the release so as not to attract any more attention than absolutely necessary.
    11-09-2014 05:29 PM
  17. The Bill Payer's Avatar
    My guess is there is a showstopper bug in Cyan for the Icon. It is fixed in the Denim release so rather than backtrack the fix from Denim to Cyan (which might be difficult or even impossible without a lot of effort), Verizon and Microsoft chose to wait for Denim.

    Knowing this would not be a popular decision as it made all of us wait, they chose to shut up about it until right before the release so as not to attract any more attention than absolutely necessary.
    Doesn't explain why the 928 and 822 haven't received the update.
    11-09-2014 05:30 PM
  18. drewman77's Avatar
    Ok, Cyan has a CDMA only bug then. Or they don't want to upgrade the 822 and 928 before their flagship product.
    11-09-2014 05:54 PM
  19. psiu_glen's Avatar
    Bug? More like VZW has to disable VVM, roll their crap app(s) into the image.

    Maybe if we're lucky the 928 is also getting XLTE. Not sure if there are any real technical obstacles to VoLTE, or if they will include it for the 822 and 928, or hell, even the discontinued Icon.

    Verizon! Where's my 7.8 update for the Trophy?!? :D
    quantum tao likes this.
    11-09-2014 06:12 PM
  20. Kasey Pierce's Avatar
    I'm dreading the day when Verizon tells Microsoft that in order to roll out updates, they have to make it so their apps can't be permanently removed so that "The use can always know that Verizon is committed to... some marketing BS..."
    11-09-2014 08:01 PM
  21. GoJays's Avatar
    Stuff like this really makes me mad. Check the OS under essentials. They have not updated the OS from the store location though. Nokia Lumia Icon - Specifications - Microsoft - USA
    Last edited by GoJays; 11-10-2014 at 10:16 AM.
    SoapBox3000 likes this.
    11-10-2014 10:02 AM
  22. Indistinguishable's Avatar
    Stuff like this really makes me mad. Check the OS under essentials. They have not updated the OS from the store location though. Nokia Lumia Icon - Specifications - Microsoft - USA
    I've never seen "Operating System - Software release: Windows Phone 8.1 with Lumia Cyan" before on that page. Maybe it's new?
    Tjarren likes this.
    11-10-2014 10:29 AM
  23. awilliams1701's Avatar
    As I've stated several times, if Verizon has a 100% bug free firmware but flat out refuses to release it for any reason at all there is absolutely nothing that Microsoft can due because CDMA technology effectively ties their hands. On the other hand Microsoft wanted to, they could override T-Mobile's decision and release Cyan on the 810. GSM technology permits them to do anything they want. Once you add lawyers into the mix who knows. That makes everything worse.
    11-10-2014 10:34 AM
  24. grafixguy#AC's Avatar
    That is indeed brand new. Interesting, if not promising.

    Edit: They show the same info for the 928.
    Last edited by grafixguy#AC; 11-10-2014 at 11:09 AM. Reason: add info for 928
    11-10-2014 11:02 AM
  25. KeegdnaB42's Avatar
    The pages for the 928 and 822 are also listing 8.1 with Cyan. The plot thickens indeed.
    DavidinCT likes this.
    11-10-2014 11:12 AM
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