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  1. Indistinguishable's Avatar
    Icon sales numbers ought to be of little significance in this conversation. This isn't just about the Icon. It's the Icon, 928, 822, Ativ Odyssey, Ativ SE, & HTC 8x.
    12-09-2014 09:43 AM
  2. Tomad9#AC's Avatar
    I put DP on the device and the battery drain and wireless problems were to much to deal with. I agree it is a great device for email and office but the other issues and one of the biggest factors is the lack of support or interest from either Microsoft or Verizon. Anyway we will see what the future holds.
    12-09-2014 09:45 AM
  3. anywhereanytime's Avatar
    Take this for what it's worth. When I sent a pretty scathing email to one of the executive addresses on VZW's site, I got a call back from someone who really did seem to care how pissed off I was, though he could offer nothing except that he had heard it should be done by early in the new year. One thing he did say in passing was that they want to be sure it was a good update for 300,000 customers.

    Whether he pulled that number out of his **** or it was real, it wouldn't be all that surprising if it was accurate.
    Thanks for the great reply and sharing of what you heard! Even the number 300,000 Icons would shed some additional light but certainly, with more "promotion" that number could have been double or triple. If I am correct the Icon "is" the Lumia 930 internationally but was a Verizon "US exclusive" that locked out ATT?

    See this article http://winsupersite.com/windows-phon...-november-2014

    Was the Icon simply a "bust" due to the way Verizon - and/or Microsoft - handled this US Verizon Lumia "flagship" ???
    12-09-2014 10:40 AM
  4. jazz70's Avatar
    Thanks for the great reply and sharing of what you heard! Even the number 300,000 Icons would shed some additional light but certainly, with more "promotion" that number could have been double or triple. If I am correct the Icon "is" the Lumia 930 internationally but was a Verizon "US exclusive" that locked out ATT?

    See this article http://winsupersite.com/windows-phon...-november-2014

    Was the Icon simply a "bust" due to the way Verizon - and/or Microsoft - handled this US Verizon Lumia "flagship" ???
    you can see examples all over these forums and other sites of how VZ marginalizes WP by not having a display of the phones in a store, VZ service reps trying to steer you to another platform when you ask about WP, not having any knowledge of WP, or making false claims to consumers about WP due to bias or bad training

    imho in the present environment of how the WP platform is treated by VZ I don't know how any WP has a chance on their network
    MikeSo and Tjarren like this.
    12-09-2014 11:28 AM
  5. MikeSo's Avatar
    This whole situation with the Icon has really soured me not just on Verizon, but on the whole carrier-centric model of the US cell phone market, period. A friend asked me to recommend a phone, and I just could not recommend any WP at this point. The Lumia 735 would be perfect, but she wants to use Straight Talk, and it's not sold in the US easily (she wanted to be able to return or get warranty work done easily in a store). It really struck me how hard it is to find a good WP unless you are on AT&T. I wonder when MS will realize that their whole "exclusivity" strategy is backfiring at this point. With more inexpensive carriers around, it would behoove them to sell multi-band unlocked phones of all models directly from their website. None of this "scouring resellers on Amazon for the correct model code sold at a markup" we have to do now....
    jazz70 likes this.
    12-09-2014 11:46 AM
  6. anywhereanytime's Avatar
    I wonder when MS will realize that their whole "exclusivity" strategy is backfiring at this point. With more inexpensive carriers around, it would behoove them to sell multi-band unlocked phones of all models directly from their website
    AMEN ... EXACTLY what "Apple has done with the iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus! I had to "buy one" for a customer project and "even the mighty Apple" was "boxed in by the almighty carriers". I had to "wait" until a local Apple store "had stock available" until I could walk in to the Apple store and say "DEVICE ONLY"! The Apple salesperson said ... WINK, WINK, you "could have bought ANY" device as our products have all of the radios installed and you can walk into Verizon and get a Verizon SIM card!

    I "hope" that Apple is the FIRST to revolt and either form their own carrier or create an Apple "network" - Verizon when they purchased the 700 MHz spectrum a few years back had to agree to terms.

    IF Apple "ever did something" ... Microsoft would immediately follow as would Google = make the carriers "just dumb" administrators and not "predators" who charge way too much for what they provide!!!
    12-09-2014 12:02 PM
  7. AlastorX50's Avatar
    AMEN ... EXACTLY what "Apple has done with the iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus! I had to "buy one" for a customer project and "even the mighty Apple" was "boxed in by the almighty carriers". I had to "wait" until a local Apple store "had stock available" until I could walk in to the Apple store and say "DEVICE ONLY"! The Apple salesperson said ... WINK, WINK, you "could have bought ANY" device as our products have all of the radios installed and you can walk into Verizon and get a Verizon SIM card!

    I "hope" that Apple is the FIRST to revolt and either form their own carrier or create an Apple "network" - Verizon when they purchased the 700 MHz spectrum a few years back had to agree to terms.

    IF Apple "ever did something" ... Microsoft would immediately follow as would Google = make the carriers "just dumb" administrators and not "predators" who charge way too much for what they provide!!!
    Think its funny when you said Microsoft would follow apple, when its always the other way around.

    In this order:
    1.Microsoft - Modern UI
    2.Google - Material UI
    3.Apple - Modern UI + Holo= IOS7

    make the carriers "just dumb" administrators and not "predators" who charge way too much for what they provide!!!
    Apple has never invented anything, just taken already exsiting products put them in a shiny box at twice the price.
    Last edited by AlastorX50; 12-09-2014 at 12:37 PM.
    12-09-2014 12:19 PM
  8. AR2186's Avatar
    Think its funny when you said Microsoft would follow apple, when its always the other way around.

    In this order:
    1.Microsoft
    2.Google
    3.Apple



    Apple has never invented anything, just taken already exsiting products put them in a shiny box at twice the price.
    They may not be a groundbreaking technology research company, but they have taken disparate technologies and made them work much better (really, much simpler, but limits customization). They have made technology relatable to the average person in a way that works very well in almost all use cases. Do you think the average person would know how to use Unix? Not a chance, but it doesn't matter because Apple has made a version of Unix that works for them.

    I really like Microsoft, but they could use ssome Apple's focus and attention to detail.
    MikeSo likes this.
    12-09-2014 12:39 PM
  9. djarchow's Avatar
    I think it is important in terms of the Icon to look at the total number of Windows phones Verizon sells. Using last years numbers as a guess, Verizon sold about 1.3 million Windows phones from February to October when the Icon was available for sale, if only 300k Icons were sold, then this is only 25% of their WP sales and the other 75% went to other Windows phones. So while Verizon may do a lousy job of selling Windows phone in general, the Icon was still outsold by old phones like the 928.
    12-09-2014 01:17 PM
  10. anywhereanytime's Avatar
    I think it is important in terms of the Icon to look at the total number of Windows phones Verizon sells. Using last years numbers as a guess, Verizon sold about 1.3 million Windows phones from February to October when the Icon was available for sale, if only 300k Icons were sold, then this is only 25% of their WP sales and the other 75% went to other Windows phones. So while Verizon may do a lousy job of selling Windows phone in general, the Icon was still outsold by old phones like the 928.
    Great logic ... "why" would someone buy a 928 over an Icon? I had a 928 and moved UP to an Icon = a LOT more functionality and wasn't the price "close"?

    I have to buy "full price" to keep my "unlimited plan" - as I recall, I paid "about the same" for both? (of course, the 928 I bought at launch for $549 as I recall and the Icon only this past September for $499.
    12-09-2014 01:40 PM
  11. djarchow's Avatar
    Great logic ... "why" would someone buy a 928 over an Icon? I had a 928 and moved UP to an Icon = a LOT more functionality and wasn't the price "close"?

    I have to buy "full price" to keep my "unlimited plan" - as I recall, I paid "about the same" for both? (of course, the 928 I bought at launch for $549 as I recall and the Icon only this past September for $499.
    The 928 today is $399 at full price. My guess is that people went with the 928 because you could get them for 99 cents as your upgrade. The last few times I was in Verizon back in September and October, the only two things I heard the customers asking the reps for were the Iphone 6 and the phones that were free. Of course for the free ones they pointed them to the older android phones.
    12-09-2014 02:01 PM
  12. DavidinCT's Avatar
    AMEN ... EXACTLY what "Apple has done with the iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus!
    Keep in mind the iPhone was a AT&T exclusive for years....for the fist few iPhones, the iPhone didn't come to Verizon (and other carriers) till the iPhone 4....

    Love or hate exclusives in the US, they are NOT going anywhere. It's not like overseas, where you pick a phone, then you pick your carrier. In the US, each carrier has different networks and different devices, so one phone will not work on another's network (depending on carrier but, Verizon and Sprint are exclusive to this due to CDMA, others work but, big problems like no LTE, etc).

    Never mind the carriers want something to get people in THEIR store on THEIR network, and keeping exclusives is the only way they can do it...(Price does it for lower cost carriers).

    No question, I dislike it too but I was glad we finally got a cool exclusive the ICON but, it's a fail because of the lack of updates...If I had the global version I would of been happy.

    Really cant win can we ?
    aximtreo and Tjarren like this.
    12-09-2014 02:29 PM
  13. anon6002755's Avatar

    Really cant win can we ?
    Not until everyone is on volte then we can only hope global phones or at least universal compatibility amongst US carriers.

    Hey, I can dream.
    Kevin Rush and DavidinCT like this.
    12-09-2014 08:49 PM
  14. SteveNoza's Avatar
    Preview for Developers is pretty painless and you can turn it off at any point, once Cyan/Denim come out, to revert back to retail. If it doesn't work to your satisfaction (battery drain or something else), you can download "Lumia Software Updater" from Microsoft Mobile and revert back to 8.0/Black. Only caveat is that you would effectively hard reset your phone on the downgrade.
    My Smartphone is first and foremost a work device, and all the work stuff works fine on 8.0, and I don't really want to affect the good basic functionality it has now with things like battery drain or WiFi issues. I keep telling my geeky side that I'll get it soon enough (of course, I thought that since July when I got the phone).
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    12-09-2014 09:10 PM
  15. V Starstruck's Avatar
    So now that Lumia Denim has been released for the Icon....why the silence?
    12-10-2014 12:01 AM
  16. anon6002755's Avatar
    So now that Lumia Denim has been released for the Icon....why the silence?
    When?
    12-10-2014 01:40 AM
  17. Indistinguishable's Avatar
    When?
    He's posting from an alternate universe where Verizon doesn't abuse it's customers.
    12-10-2014 07:24 AM
  18. AR2186's Avatar
    My Smartphone is first and foremost a work device, and all the work stuff works fine on 8.0, and I don't really want to affect the good basic functionality it has now with things like battery drain or WiFi issues. I keep telling my geeky side that I'll get it soon enough (of course, I thought that since July when I got the phone).
    Completely understand, I told myself the same thing in late February when I got mine. Worst part is that they have rolled out minor firmware updates since then (think it was mid-summer to enable the arrows on data connection, etc) but nothing major. Its frustrating, but I think everyone wants a phone that works properly more than they want 8.1, so the wait continues
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    12-10-2014 07:41 AM
  19. grafixguy#AC's Avatar
    Or from the universe where people don't know there's a bug in the extras and info screen.
    12-10-2014 08:07 AM
  20. Indistinguishable's Avatar
    Or from the universe where people don't know there's a bug in the extras and info screen.
    It often seems that that's OUR universe.
    12-10-2014 08:18 AM
  21. MikeSo's Avatar
    This column by Ed Bott hits home for most of us in this thread, I'd imagine...

    Why have I given up on Windows Phone? Blame Verizon | ZDNet

    Back in October, Microsoft's Joe Belfiore tried to mollify Verizon customers with this tweet.

    MS/Verizon are working on some bug fixes-- VZW taking the quality seriously. We aren't sure how long it will take, but work is underway.

    -- joebelfiore (@joebelfiore) October 30, 2014

    Asked for comment six weeks later, Belfiore says only: "Still working on it... no new info to provide."

    I'd love to leave Verizon behind completely and switch to another carrier, but I don't have that luxury: Where I live and work, Verizon is the only carrier with a reliable signal.

    After waiting in vain for months, I've finally given up. I used the Nokia Software Recovery Tool to restore the factory software to my Lumia Icon and put it on the shelf until Microsoft and Verizon figure things out. In the meantime, I've switched to an iPhone 6 Plus.

    I'm probably not the only one.

    And as long as U.S.-based carriers, including the biggest of them all, Verizon, are able to drag their feet and ignore Windows as a mobile platform, it's unlikely that anything Microsoft can do will be able to make a dent in its market share in the United States.
    Verizon has done more to kill WP than any competing cell phone manufacturer could have done. Or maybe they helped, who knows.
    12-10-2014 10:33 AM
  22. anywhereanytime's Avatar
    This column by Ed Bott hits home for most of us in this thread, I'd imagine...

    Why have I given up on Windows Phone? Blame Verizon | ZDNet
    Interesting comments to the excellent ZDNet blog post by Ed Bott ... perhaps with Windows Phone10 on the horizon and a little pressure on the FCC about Verizon "abusing their 700 MHz AUCTION" OPEN Network agreements ???

    KPOM1

    @reidar76 It's getting better in the US now that it's clear DT can't sell T-Mobile to another carrier and they have started actually competing, setting off a price war. Both Verizon and AT&T have issued profit warnings this quarter. And in 2016 Verizon effectively becomes a GSM carrier as they plan to issue LTE-only phones in anticipation of shutting off their EVDO network by 2020. By virtue of a unique agreement with the FCC for their LTE Band 13 spectrum, all their LTE phones are unlocked and they cannot block any phone supporting Band 13 from their network. That's why you can technically use an AT&T iPhone 6 on their network.
    dkediger likes this.
    12-10-2014 11:38 AM
  23. theefman's Avatar
    This column by Ed Bott hits home for most of us in this thread, I'd imagine...

    Why have I given up on Windows Phone? Blame Verizon | ZDNet



    Verizon has done more to kill WP than any competing cell phone manufacturer could have done. Or maybe they helped, who knows.

    Yet we don't see Microsoft putting up a fight for their OS, instead they've turned their focus to ios and android.
    dkediger and feeked like this.
    12-10-2014 12:48 PM
  24. Tjarren's Avatar
    I've been giving this some thought lately, as to why this is bothering me so much (beyond the obvious).

    I think the problem with this entire process is the lack of transparency. We don't know WHY Verizon is the last US carrier to release WP 8.1 (first revealed in April 2014 ...) to it's customers. That lack of transparency is 98% on the part of Verizon and 2% on the part of Microsoft. The comments from Joe Belfiore on this situation (most recently on 12/9) come off as someone wanting to say more but not being able.

    Why is that? Is it due to Verizon or MS? Are these legitimate problems with all of the devices or just certain ones and Verizon doesn't want to stagger the release? Is this a corporate decree to push sales of the One M8 for those wanting the 8.1 experience? We don't know. We likely will NEVER know.

    Hopefully we can all find other things to occupy our hearts and minds for the time being, because dwelling on this right now is downright masochistic ...
    12-11-2014 07:51 PM
  25. beerme1's Avatar

    Yet we don't see Microsoft putting up a fight for their OS, instead they've turned their focus to ios and android.
    I'm surprised nobody has called you out on this. Are you serious? There may be a lull in the action right now and in large part due to VZW but c'mon.
    Windows 10 across platforms? I don't think they're laying down I think they're trying to bide time and VZW isn't helping that. But when 10 releases I believe they are going all in and they're will be a dizzying amount of phones running Win 10 and products coming at a blistering pace.
    Apps included!
    Michael Bromley likes this.
    12-11-2014 09:11 PM
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