[DavidinCT]

Why is that? Is it due to Verizon or MS? Are these legitimate problems with all of the devices or just certain ones and Verizon doesn't want to stagger the release? Is this a corporate decree to push sales of the One M8 for those wanting the 8.1 experience? We don't know. We likely will NEVER know.

This is the 1.7 billion dollar question. Who's fault is it ? And who's ever fault it is, why the delay ?

On one side, We have the Nokia Lumia 930, in all aspects it is the EXACT same phone besides the CDMA radio. This is proof that 8.1 will work on ICON.

Unless there is a problem with the CDMA radio and software (Windows Phone software, not firmware), with other 8.1 devices on the market (The HTC one for example), and even this part is a little hard for me to believe. If someone said it was this, I would call it BS unless they can back it up with 110% facts, not rumor or personal guess, like is done a lot on here.

The last thing we have heard, is because 8.1 does not work with Verizon's custom applications. Why ? Who really wants their crappy Visual Voicemail app ? Their billing app (that has not been updated for ever and still looks like crap, no wonder it might not work.) they are saying are having a problem.

Their Visual Voice mail app on 8.1 Dev preview caused me to lose a job making REALLY good money because I watch for live tiles, I had a voice mail that came in and the tile never showed that I had a voice mail, so for a week an offer came in for a job and I missed it. So yea, there is BIG issue with their VVM app.... Yea, it's my fault because I have the Dev Preview installed but, If I was on 8.0 and this happened, I would file a lawsuit and I would win.

Why Verizon does not use the built in VVM app is behind me, put the work into it, work with Microsoft and just make it work and it will be a seamless app, what we as Windows Phone users WANT. They use the built in app on the iPhone, why wont they make it work for Windows Phone ?

Verizon, just more excuses and will never give a update....All in all, I think it's Verizon, if they are just short handed, or don't really care because it's a canceled phone, who freaking knows... Same old BS...

[feeked]

Verizon had little issue with delivering updates in a timely manner in the past for Windows Phone. So I assume it's not just them that's at fault.

[Indistinguishable]

Verizon had little issue with delivering updates in a timely manner in the past for Windows Phone. So I assume it's not just them that's at fault.

If you look at the update release page that Microsoft has posted, you'd be hard stretched to come to the conclusion that the delay isn't pretty much entirely Verizon's fault. Every other carrier has rolled out this update. I agree, Microsoft should do their darnedest to get Verizon to get the thing out, but i'm not going to put the blame on them.

Software update for Lumia with Windows Phone 8 - Nokia

[grafixguy#AC]

Define timely. Verizon is always late with updates but they've outdone themselves this time.

[Kasey Pierce]

Verizon is always last to update any device. I'm looking at you Galaxy Nexus.

[webguynj]

Looks like official Denim Update is out all my Lumias are now updated.

"Hey Cortana" is not working on Icon - Does anyone have ideas why?

[grafixguy#AC]

Because you don't have denim. You don't even have cyan. You are seeing a bug in extras and info.

[Indistinguishable]

Because you don't have denim. You don't even have cyan. You are seeing a bug in extras and info.

I'm going to have to put this in my signature.

http://www.windowscentral.com/nokia-...ware-sightings

[savagelizards]

I still think that all this could be a moot point if Microsoft would provide the firmware through the PFD program the way they,provide the OS updates. I have not experienced the problems with the PFD 8.1 OS that people on this thread seem to complain about, but if the firmware were the fix then why not simply release it through PFD?

I wonder if Microsoft is waiting for some agreement to expire to do so. Clearly they cannot be happy that customers on the number one US carrier cannot enjoy the best features of their OS.

[wes.in.wa]

Because you don't have denim. You don't even have cyan. You are seeing a bug in extras and info.

No fair! I've been waiting and waiting, and I STILL don't have the bug in Extras & Info! What's up with that, Verizon?

[Tomad9#AC]

I'm surprised nobody has called you out on this. Are you serious? There may be a lull in the action right now and in large part due to VZW but c'mon.
Windows 10 across platforms? I don't think they're laying down I think they're trying to bide time and VZW isn't helping that. But when 10 releases I believe they are going all in and they're will be a dizzying amount of phones running Win 10 and products coming at a blistering pace.
Apps included!

I have to tell you, I had windows awhile back, when it was a HTC Trophy and not sure what version but I all heard was how Windows 8 would be the update to bring them into light. After a stint with the Droid Maxx I went back to Windows and the Icon and it was much of the same. Also on another note I spoke to a VZW retailer and he was telling me when the 928 came out, Verizon was pushing Windows and then stopped. So now it seems Windows is the 3rd in line again. I hope Windows 10 is the answer.

[gernerttl]

This is the 1.7 billion dollar question.

Don't you mean the 8.1 billion dollar question? :)

[vepac]

I think it would be pretty cool if on Christmas morning we wake up to a notification of a new update available to then see that it would be 8.1 w/cyan!

[GoJays]

I think it would be pretty cool if on Christmas morning we wake up to a notification of a new update available to then see that it would be 8.1 w/cyan!

I wouldn't be surprised if Verizon enlisted Krampus to handle its Windows Phone Holiday Promotions :)

http://m.ibtimes.com/who-krampus-4-f...-devil-1753629

[DavidinCT]

I still think that all this could be a moot point if Microsoft would provide the firmware through the PFD program the way they,provide the OS updates. I have not experienced the problems with the PFD 8.1 OS that people on this thread seem to complain about, but if the firmware were the fix then why not simply release it through PFD?

I wonder if Microsoft is waiting for some agreement to expire to do so. Clearly they cannot be happy that customers on the number one US carrier cannot enjoy the best features of their OS.

Yea, this has been said a while now....If you have the DP, you have what Microsoft provides to carriers(pretty much).... To enable Bluetooth 4.0 (low power mode for smart watches, etc),stuff like faster camera and "Hey Cortana" this requires a hardware firmware, this needs to approved by the carrier because this also controls network stuff too.

It would be pointless if you could get a firmware from MS with out carrier doing their "stuff" to it, esp on Verizon because CDMA (3G network that you do use in a lot of areas), needs keys, this is done in firmware, with out it, you might not get data voice or texts....and what would be the point ?

[savagelizards]

I would expect that Microsoft has the access to the Verizon keys, since they have never been updated since the Icon first launched. What would really be the difference? If Verizon ever needed to update the keys the could simply send out the official denim update in the future, the same way that out 8.1 PFD will at some point be upgraded by Verizon to the official 8.1 OS. But at this point, the risk of Verizon changing their keys with a new firmware update seems remote.

[mariusmuntean]

One question regarding the Lumia Icon. Having the same HW as 930, what would you think would happen if you would flash a 930 firmware on it? Let go the 4G LTE on Verizon, I am asking for general purposes if this could be possible or if anyone tried it so far.

[jazz70]

One question regarding the Lumia Icon. Having the same HW as 930, what would you think would happen if you would flash a 930 firmware on it? Let go the 4G LTE on Verizon, I am asking for general purposes if this could be possible or if anyone tried it so far.

Last I looked at XDA they were not able to do it and it would fail because WP is locked down tight needing certified drivers/signatures specifically made for that particular model of the phone and you will most likely brick your phone if by some way you able to force an install, if the expert hackers at XDA haven't figured out how to do it by now it looks doubtful it will ever happen

[AR2186]

One question regarding the Lumia Icon. Having the same HW as 930, what would you think would happen if you would flash a 930 firmware on it? Let go the 4G LTE on Verizon, I am asking for general purposes if this could be possible or if anyone tried it so far.

From the digging I've done at XDA and other places, Nokia Care Suite has a check that stops you from flashing roms that aren't meant for your phone (920 had some leeway, but AT&T has locked that down). There may be a way to disable it, as I saw mention to it somewhere, but I haven't looked into it.

That said, your CDMA radio would stop working and it would be basically the same as activating an unlocked GSM phone on the network, which doesn't happen. Unlocked phones are technically supposed to be allowed to connect through the Band 13 auction rules, but they dont actually let it authenticate properly (see Nexus 7 issues last year).

Unlocked North American LTE phones have no problem seeing the network, but they dont connect properly

[gernerttl]

I would expect that Microsoft has the access to the Verizon keys, since they have never been updated since the Icon first launched. What would really be the difference? If Verizon ever needed to update the keys the could simply send out the official denim update in the future, the same way that out 8.1 PFD will at some point be upgraded by Verizon to the official 8.1 OS. But at this point, the risk of Verizon changing their keys with a new firmware update seems remote.

Those keys are proprietary regardless of whether or not they have changed. Just because Microsoft may have access to them doesn't mean they can arbitrarily update the phone using them without Verizon's explicit approval. Microsoft does not control any carriers' network. Again, if Microsoft tried to go around Verizon, or any other carrier for that matter, they would get themselves into serious legal trouble.

Now I would think if it isn't directly related to network operations (i.e. camera, audio, Bluetooth, WiFi, etc.) then Microsoft should include it. Anything dealing with the LTE, GSM, or CDMA side could be updated by Verizon; or approved by Verizon and updated by Microsoft. But since many phones have system on a chip architecture, you just can't update one aspect without updating the entire system.

[mariusmuntean]

Hmm I see..so all comes to the lockdown MS/Nokia put on the system. I mean having the same hw as 930 would have been great to flash a newer firmware and not to wait for Verizon's stupid moves. If XDA indeed does not find a way, well no one can :)

[AR2186]

Those keys are proprietary regardless of whether or not they have changed. Just because Microsoft may have access to them doesn't mean they can arbitrarily update the phone using them without Verizon's explicit approval. Microsoft does not control any carriers' network. Again, if Microsoft tried to go around Verizon, or any other carrier for that matter, they would get themselves into serious legal trouble.

Now I would think if it isn't directly related to network operations (i.e. camera, audio, Bluetooth, WiFi, etc.) then Microsoft should include it. Anything dealing with the LTE, GSM, or CDMA side could be updated by Verizon; or approved by Verizon and updated by Microsoft. But since many phones have system on a chip architecture, you just can't update one aspect without updating the entire system.

I was about to post the same, basically that Microsoft cant change anything cellular radio related without Verizon's approval (think there are FCC rules and regulations regarding that), but I do think we will see a change in the way things work going forward. You could easily see a "firmware" update that handles everything BUT the cellular radio. You could get wifi updates, camera updates, battery tweaks, etc without messing with the radio. Basically they need (and likely will) make everything updateable separately to avoid carrier issues. Not (big picture) like what Google has done with Google Play.

Microsoft, just compartmentalize every component and update everything BUT the cellular radio.

[MobileVortex]

[jasqid]

Love this... but forget cyan. Go Denim! :/

[Indistinguishable]

Love this... but forget cyan. Go Denim! :/

As the old adage says, "Beggars can't be choosers."

I've been on Verizon for the better half of a decade, and I've used Windows Phone since its inception. And that whole time i've been just that, a beggar. That's why i'm moving my wife and myself over to AT&T in February when my contract with Verizon is up. I'm looking forward to being a chooser.

But until then, i'd just like to see Verizon roll out WP8.1 with either Cyan or Denim.