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  1. GoJays's Avatar
    This was recently published but still inconclusive.

    http://lumiaconversations.microsoft....te-coming-way/
    The only phrase you need to read is "subject to partner approvals."
    Tjarren likes this.
    01-15-2015 03:05 PM
  2. Jon Hemphill's Avatar
    I would almost bet that it had something to do with Verizon's ULTRA-CRAPPY apps that caused this major delay, like was said before. Once they were fixed, then they need to be tested, so a few weeks of testing because Verizon sucks when it comes to updates...
    Are the same crappy apps on the 822 & 928 as what's on the Icon? What makes Icon so unique that neither the 822, 928 or the 930 have that's causing the Denim delay?
    jbclemons likes this.
    01-15-2015 03:08 PM
  3. MikeSo's Avatar
    So the 930 is getting Denim in many countries now... Remember when we were thinking "hey at least we might get Denim sooner than the others?" :)
    Not even that...

    Pretty conclusive evidence that whatever flaws the Icon has, that's not what is holding up Denim on Verizon.
    01-15-2015 04:09 PM
  4. awilliams1701's Avatar
    I'm betting they are the same as the HTC One M8 which shipped with 8.1 to begin with. I said that alone was proof that this was a flat out lie. I stand by what I said.

    Are the same crappy apps on the 822 & 928 as what's on the Icon? What makes Icon so unique that neither the 822, 928 or the 930 have that's causing the Denim delay?
    01-15-2015 04:40 PM
  5. gernerttl's Avatar
    Pretty conclusive evidence that whatever flaws the Icon has, that's not what is holding up Denim on Verizon.
    How is that conclusive? Remember, the 930 and the Icon are NOT identical. The whole CDMA thing is a HUGE difference. I still don't see how people think that is a minor issue. I know that it was said that Verizon had a problem with it's apps running on Cyan. I still want to throw the BS flag on that. You don't tailor the OS to the app, you tailor the app to the OS. Verizon's apps work just fine (considering the quality of course) on WP8.1. Furthermore, apps don't access the firmware directly; they go through the OS for any hardware requests.

    Whatever the problem, it seems to be hardware related, specifically CDMA. I remember somebody posting on the old "Official 8.1/Cyan for the Icon" thread something about the CDMA radio was pinging the network too often. That is definitely a FIRMWARE problem.
    MatsuDano likes this.
    01-15-2015 04:40 PM
  6. Tjarren's Avatar
    Ok. I've had fun here at times to ease the frustration, but it's time I dip my toe in the speculation pool once again. This may show my hand, but it all starts with a question:

    Has Verizon ever released a major OS update (not firmware only) within a year of a phone's release?
    01-15-2015 05:12 PM
  7. grafixguy#AC's Avatar
    What is your definition of a major O/S update?
    01-15-2015 06:06 PM
  8. Kasey Pierce's Avatar
    ios7--->ios8=Major update
    Android 4.4-->5.0= Major update
    WP8--->WP8.1=Major update.

    I'd say its a jump from the .1's to the whole number ups. Just my idea of a major update. (excluding good ol Microsoft)
    01-15-2015 06:47 PM
  9. gernerttl's Avatar
    What is your definition of a major O/S update?
    Good question. What is considered a MAJOR OS update; and does it include firmware? For IOS it's an easy answer. For WP and Android, that question is more complicated. The OS is controlled by Microsoft and Google respectively, but the firmware is controlled by the OEMs. With Microsoft now in the OEM business too. How do you separate the OS from the firmware; and can you without comprising the functionality of the device as well as the security and stability of the networks those devices connect to?
    01-15-2015 06:52 PM
  10. grafixguy#AC's Avatar
    Never mind.
    01-15-2015 07:14 PM
  11. anywhereanytime's Avatar
    Hot off the presses ... Windows Phone fans, get excited -- Microsoft pushing Lumia Denim to more devices

    WHERE IS "Joe B" NOW that it is "early 2015"?
    jbclemons likes this.
    01-15-2015 08:17 PM
  12. grafixguy#AC's Avatar
    That's hot off the presses? A one paragraph into to a copy/paste of a blog post?
    Tjarren likes this.
    01-15-2015 08:26 PM
  13. anywhereanytime's Avatar
    That's hot off the presses? A one paragraph into to a copy/paste of a blog post?
    Another update that says "ICON" ... and "your sources" are exactly "what"?
    Tjarren likes this.
    01-15-2015 08:44 PM
  14. gernerttl's Avatar
    Another update that says "ICON" ... and "your sources" are exactly "what"?
    Agreed. It's nothing more than a rehash of information that we already know.
    01-15-2015 09:11 PM
  15. Tjarren's Avatar
    ios7--->ios8=Major update
    Android 4.4-->5.0= Major update
    WP8--->WP8.1=Major update.

    I'd say its a jump from the .1's to the whole number ups. Just my idea of a major update. (excluding good ol Microsoft)
    Yes, this is what I meant by the question.
    01-15-2015 10:37 PM
  16. Jon Hemphill's Avatar
    Whatever the problem, it seems to be hardware related, specifically CDMA. I remember somebody posting on the old "Official 8.1/Cyan for the Icon" thread something about the CDMA radio was pinging the network too often. That is definitely a FIRMWARE problem.
    Then why does the 822 & the 928 have Denim and they are on the CDMA network? How is it their issue is resolved while Icon's issue isn't? Is the Icon using a totally different CDMA radio than the 822 & 928 uses?
    01-16-2015 08:41 AM
  17. DavidinCT's Avatar
    Then why does the 822 & the 928 have Denim and they are on the CDMA network? How is it their issue is resolved while Icon's issue isn't? Is the Icon using a totally different CDMA radio than the 822 & 928 uses?
    As I don't know for sure, it's very possible, newer phone, newer chipset....

    Only way we could know for sure, if someone knew the exact chipset used for CDMA and opened both phones to see if they are different....

    Not sure that this would help at this point, with a Early 2015 release said, I would bet it's finished but, in testing at this point...

    The big question is, will we get Windows 10 for phone before we get Denim ? (rumor is 21st on 10 preview)
    01-16-2015 08:54 AM
  18. Brenda Smeby's Avatar
    I don't buy this. The 928 got Denim and its fine.


    Then why does the 822 & the 928 have Denim and they are on the CDMA network? How is it their issue is resolved while Icon's issue isn't? Is the Icon using a totally different CDMA radio than the 822 & 928 uses?
    MikeSo likes this.
    01-16-2015 09:42 AM
  19. TheJoester09's Avatar
    As I don't know for sure, it's very possible, newer phone, newer chipset....

    Only way we could know for sure, if someone knew the exact chipset used for CDMA and opened both phones to see if they are different....

    Not sure that this would help at this point, with a Early 2015 release said, I would bet it's finished but, in testing at this point...

    The big question is, will we get Windows 10 for phone before we get Denim ? (rumor is 21st on 10 preview)
    What would be hilarious is if we don't, and they release the Win 10 preview, but only make it available for Cyan or higher. At this point, that would not shock me.
    01-16-2015 10:04 AM
  20. lmnopotts's Avatar
    Whatever the problem, it seems to be hardware related, specifically CDMA. I remember somebody posting on the old "Official 8.1/Cyan for the Icon" thread something about the CDMA radio was pinging the network too often. That is definitely a FIRMWARE problem.
    That was me, and I haven't heard anything new from my friend at Verizon. Last I heard the business systems he's set up that went all windows were getting pissed and he didn't have any information for them.
    01-16-2015 10:05 AM
  21. jazz70's Avatar
    Then why does the 822 & the 928 have Denim and they are on the CDMA network? How is it their issue is resolved while Icon's issue isn't? Is the Icon using a totally different CDMA radio than the 822 & 928 uses?
    I don't think it's a CDMA problem because we see other lumias running fine with Denim

    imho it still all points back to Verizon having little interest in the WP platform, retiring phones early with no explanation, completely removing selling lumias online, massively delayed updates, misinformation or lack of knowledge of WP when you visit a VZW retail store, and many other examples on these forums and others of how Verizon has systematically maligned anything to do with WP

    I have no idea how Microsoft can overcome the hurdles Verizon has in place against WP to gain any traction on the largest/fastest cellular network in the US
    MikeSo and jbclemons like this.
    01-16-2015 10:25 AM
  22. Tjarren's Avatar
    Well, since my post may have gotten lost in the mix, let me explain where I was going:

    I don't think Verizon has released a major OS update within the first year of releasing a phone. It may be some draconian practice that is just part of who they are, even if it makes no sound business sense.

    So, because of that, I'm annoyed to think that we won't see this update before the 21st of February but that's where I'm leaning now.

    For the record, though it could've been complete coincidence, this time last year during the Icon release delay, I had guestimated that it was due to some weird 3-month exclusivity on the 1520 and lo-and-behold the Icon came out almost 3 months to the day of the 1520's release on AT&T.

    Coincidence? Definitely possible. But I guess my point is that there are probably completely, nonsensical business reasons why these things are happening that we are not and will never be privy to unless someone breaks confidentiality.

    So, last week of February is my expectation now. Hope I'm wrong ...
    MikeSo and jbclemons like this.
    01-16-2015 11:03 AM
  23. Lance May's Avatar
    All I can see is that a company that has promised it's customers a service and has failed to complete the above mentioned service is as far as I know the poorest of customer service and when given the opportunity we may want to look at moving to a better quality of service. That is just my opinion and I have been with Verizon for going on 11 years, so I am kicking myself each day I keep staying with them...
    TheZuneLune likes this.
    01-16-2015 11:04 AM
  24. MikeSo's Avatar
    I've said it before, this talk of CDMA problems is ridiculous. CDMA isn't some new mysterious technology. It's already fine and working in all phones, including the Icon. I can almost guarantee that that part of the code isn't even touched in these updates.
    Indistinguishable and jazz70 like this.
    01-16-2015 11:40 AM
  25. MatsuDano's Avatar

    I don't think Verizon has released a major OS update within the first year of releasing a phone. It may be some draconian practice that is just part of who they are, even if it makes no sound business sense.
    Never attribute to malevolence what you can attribute to ignorance. It's not a draconian practice, it's not even indifference. They just have no clue what they are doing.

    Neither perspective grants much confidence in their capabilities.
    Last edited by MatsuDano; 01-16-2015 at 02:23 PM.
    jbclemons, SpaceyO and hawwie_4 like this.
    01-16-2015 12:23 PM
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