Nokia X & Why it does not make sense lol

[Nogitsune Micah]

Was not sure where to put this at...sorry if this is the wrong section lol

First, I was a bit shocked to see such an overwhelming reporting of an ANDROID device on WPcentral. I thought for a moment i was somehow on android central. Essentially 10 posts for a phone most people on wpcentral likely wouldn't buy. Secondly, I was even more shocked to see how much positive spin is being given to the device(s) on wpcentral and this is actually one of the few times I agree with some of the other media sites and google fans.

Why this does not make sense....

1. People compare this to the Kindle method...Except Amazon services such as their Kindle Books ecosystem and Amazon Prime are reasons why people go for those devices. Yes, Kindle is a Forked android but it's main purpose is to give users a better experience to their services.

This device offers microsoft services...except...you can still get those SAME services on normal Android phones that have full access to the google play market. If i was in an emerging market, if I saw a phone like this and I saw another regular android phone why on earth would I go for a gimped device?

2. People keep saying this is not a Google Android Phone...Uh Yeah it is. It's just not a Pure Android Phone......just like the Kindle Fire is STILL an android tablet, it's just not a Pure android tablet. ANyone can then just simply remove the KIndle OS(and Nokia/Microsoft stuff) and you have a full android tablet.

Especially with the ability to sideload apps...this makes even less sense.

3. Furthermore, yes it does look like Windows Phone to a degree on the surface....Heck, Windows Phone 7.8 looks just like Windows Phone 8 but once you start using it, it still performs the same way a typical android phone would work and nothing like a windows phone.

4. This is meant to be a "transition" phone in the Hopes that people will then later upgrade to the Lumia line of devices....

Umm...Hmm? Why on earth would anyone who has an android phone that looks like Windows Phone but isn;t a windows phone then decide to upgrade to an android phone? Goes back to #1....just because there are microsoft services does not tie them to microsoft since essentially they can still use the same services on any android phone. Microsoft, unlike Google, makes the apps available on all platforms...and even better than what we get on windows phone.

Furthermore, think about it in a negative way......Let's say that people DO ASSOCIATE these phones with windows phone. Given the outdated software and overly customized UI, if a person winds up hating these devices(Similar to how i hate Samsung galaxy and i'll never own a Samsung windows phone even though the two are unrelated except by manufacturer) wouldn't that then give someone a negative thought towards Lumias since the X line "looks" like Lumias.

Not to mention the message it sends to current users of the OS as for me, I frankly am beginning to wonder...Do you really have faith in your OWN system that you would need to go to your competitor to try and gain success?

What would have BEEN BETTER....IF you're going to try and expose users to Windows Phone/Microsoft...Why not create a Dual Booting Nokia X...Still have the same ugly Android version but also have Windows Phone. That doesn't necessarily mean it would be better but at the very least i can then get behind people saying "Oh yeah, this will totally get windows phones into more hands....."

Furthermore...if you're going to use an outdated OS...Why not throw Windows 7.8 on some new devices LMFAO....At least then you can expose them to a "Lite version" and the phones can still be somewhat cheap as crap.

I see this happening one of two ways

1. The Phone will be the new kin(I hope) and trashed Post Merger.

2. The Phone will do well(Likely) though it'll have negative connotations on windows phone.

And anyone who says these phones aren't competing with the Lumia 520..smh. These phones are the same price as what you can now find a Lumia 520.

I do have a feeling I will probably be holding onto my Lumia 1520 for longer than i ever held onto a phone because if this begins to introduce more phones as Nokia claims......I really may need to start reconsidering my phone OS and I absolutely love WIndows phone but i don't get the whole "Using your competitor OS who has done more harm to your own OS" to gain success mentality.

 

[Markham Ranja]

I do have a feeling I will probably be holding onto my Lumia 1520 for longer than i ever held onto a phone because if this begins to introduce more phones as Nokia claims......I really may need to start reconsidering my phone OS and I absolutely love WIndows phone but i don't get the whole "Using your competitor OS who has done more harm to your own OS" to gain success mentality.

Success is success. MS is a business like all others, and they are in the game to make a profit. If that profit comes from using Android, that's not going to stop them for a New York minute.

 

[Nogitsune Micah]

Success is success. MS is a business like all others, and they are in the game to make a profit. If that profit comes from using Android, that's not going to stop them for a New York minute.

So going from a Leading Company with it's own quality software to a ME TOO company taking their competitor's software and having to essentially become just another Android OEM in a world where Android is already dominated heavily by Samsung or other Cheap OEMs? Yeah this doesn't scream success at all. It screams desperation instead of them trying to innovate and strengthen their OWN OS...they now have two oses to worry about

 

[Adityaa_Prtm]

Well, considering Android is the clear winner in the OS war, it seems perfectly a fine move by Microsoft (business-wise). After all, it's all about business and money, just like Markham said above. As long as these 'Windows-Android' phones stick with low end system and doesn't compete with current and future Windows Phone flagship, it won't create too much fuss IMO. :winktongue:

 

[Nogitsune Micah]

Well, considering Android is the clear winner in the OS war, it seems perfectly a fine move by Microsoft (business-wise). After all, it's all about business and money, just like Markham said above. As long as these 'Windows-Android' phones stick with low end system and doesn't compete with current and future Windows Phone flagship, it won't create too much fuss IMO. :winktongue:

Windows was a clear leader in the Desktop space, but you didn't see Apple going to make Macbook pro running Windows LOL again they...wait for it, winded up innovating and coming up with something on their own and found success there and even without dominating the Desktop, APple's PCs certainly aren't failures by any means even with their 10 percent.

 

[Jas00555]

Windows was a clear leader in the Desktop space, but you didn't see Apple going to make Macbook pro running Windows LOL again they...wait for it, winded up innovating and coming up with something on their own and found success there and even without dominating the Desktop, APple's PCs certainly aren't failures by any means even with their 10 percent.

You seem to forget Apple's Mac vs PC commercials where they were talking about how you can run Windows on your Mac, therefore you should buy a Mac

(located at 3:07 here http://youtube.com/watch?v=0eEG5LVXdKo )

 

[Reflexx]

This is designed to keep people from investing themselves into Google services and using Nokia's name to do it.

Like it or not, there has been resistance to WP. Newbie who buy their first smartphone may be afraid to buy a 520 because everyone tells them to buy Android. This allows them to try a smartphone without being tied to Google services.

What does this mean in the long run? When these consumers upgrade, it gives WP a fighting chance to win them over. If they are already invested in Google's ecosystem, converting them is many times harder.

WP will eventually have app parity. The OS will mature even more. When these consumers upgrade again, it won't be about the apps. It will be about the ecosystem. If they are already invested in Google's, then they most likely go with a device where Google's ecosystem is supported.

If they are invested in MS's ecosystem, then they can at least see WP as a viable choice when they upgrade later.

 

[Nogitsune Micah]

Invest in WHAT ecosystme?

Skype? Xbox Music? One Drive? Outlook?

you mean the same exact thing Microsoft already gives Android better versions of compared to what we have now with windows phone? Still not seeing how this ties people into microsoft ecosystem.....and make them potentially go lumia.

I could see if microsoft was doing a google where they did not provide their most popular services to Android(or IOS) but as we know, Microsoft at least can do that right and is fairer when it comes to other OS.

This is designed to keep people from investing themselves into Google services and using Nokia's name to do it.

Like it or not, there has been resistance to WP. Newbie who buy their first smartphone may be afraid to buy a 520 because everyone tells them to buy Android. This allows them to try a smartphone without being tied to Google services.

What does this mean in the long run? When these consumers upgrade, it gives WP a fighting chance to win them over. If they are already invested in Google's ecosystem, converting them is many times harder.

WP will eventually have app parity. The OS will mature even more. When these consumers upgrade again, it won't be about the apps. It will be about the ecosystem. If they are already invested in Google's, then they most likely go with a device where Google's ecosystem is supported.

If they are invested in MS's ecosystem, then they can at least see WP as a viable choice when they upgrade later.

 

[Nogitsune Micah]

You seem to forget Apple's Mac vs PC commercials where they were talking about how you can run Windows on your Mac, therefore you should buy a Mac

(located at 3:07 here Complete 66 Mac vs PC ads + Mac & PC WWDC Intro + Siri Intro - YouTube )

i get the point you were attempting, However, there is a difference in Selling a Mac by apple and saying "HEY! we can ALSO run Windows"

vs
Saying
"Hey, I know we are known for our Macs...but let's sell you this low cost windows pC by apple that looks like a Mac but performs no way like a mac...Why you ask? Because we think somehow this will encourage you to jump ship to our actual macbooks with OS X"

 

[distilledoreo]

The only problem I have with it is, people using the 'X' line of devices will have all of their apps, such as Plants vs. Zombies 2. If they are doing what is planned and transitioning to Windows Phone, 1) The app isn't available for Windows Phone, so the experience will be slightly worse in some aspects (though this may not apply to many people) 2) People will buy apps from the Nokia Store and move to Windows Phone and will be required to purchase the apps again, which no one wants to do, unless its an awesome app and they want to support the developers. 3) If people move to Windows Phone and buy a 520 they won't be upgrading too much, maybe 4 more GBs of storage, but they can even get 256MB less RAM.

I see no reason not to just make low end Windows Phones and get more developers for WP. Now less people will have an incentive to develop for Windows Phone because a majority of users are in the low end. Lumia 520s have already been selling for as low as $50 at one point, and the 521 was being sold at MetroPCS for $30. I'm sure as time goes on the parts will be cheaper and a 520 will barely cost anything to make. The only way this would make sense is if the rumors are true and Android apps will soon be able to be easily ported over to Windows Phone, but again that lowers the incentive to develop for Windows Phone! I am not seeing much sense either...

 

[Reflexx]

Invest in WHAT ecosystme?

Skype? Xbox Music? One Drive? Outlook?

you mean the same exact thing Microsoft already gives Android better versions of compared to what we have now with windows phone? Still not seeing how this ties people into microsoft ecosystem.....and make them potentially go lumia.

I could see if microsoft was doing a google where they did not provide their most popular services to Android(or IOS) but as we know, Microsoft at least can do that right and is fairer when it comes to other OS.

I think you're missing the point.

What we want is to prevent people from investing in Google services. Why? Because if they are invested in those services, then it creates a barrier to using WP in the future.

If they are using MS services, then they may adopt WP in the future.

Is it a guarantee? Of course not. But it's a lot better than if they were invested in Google services that aren't available on WP. That's pretty much a guarantee that they'd go Google Android for their future device.

Remember, MS and Nokia are not giving up on low end Windows Phones. Those will still offer a superior experience. However, this is for those people who insist on buying Android because of their fear of WP. If you just give them to Google and let them invest themselves in those services, they may be lost for good.

 

[theefman]

They can do all that "investing" on a Lumia 520 so what is the reason for these devices again? It must be the android apps and if that's the case there is a slim to none chance that these users will later opt for a platform with less apps. There's just no scenario where this makes sense over a cheaper L520.

 

[Nogitsune Micah]

Paul actually said it best here in this Article
http://winsupersite.com/mobile-devices/nokia-x-preview

So this is essentially then taking a HUGE risk for a small possibility that people may decide to jump on board? Still not a good business decision in my honest opinion....

It still does not answer the question...If they can continue to use their microsoft services ON ANDROID then why would they need to go full windows phone and not just stick with the subjectively better OS(Android).

Oh...maybe they're staying for the tiles.... -_-

I think you're missing the point.

What we want is to prevent people from investing in Google services. Why? Because if they are invested in those services, then it creates a barrier to using WP in the future.

If they are using MS services, then they may adopt WP in the future.

Is it a guarantee? Of course not. But it's a lot better than if they were invested in Google services that aren't available on WP. That's pretty much a guarantee that they'd go Google Android for their future device.

Remember, MS and Nokia are not giving up on low end Windows Phones. Those will still offer a superior experience. However, this is for those people who insist on buying Android because of their fear of WP. If you just give them to Google and let them invest themselves in those services, they may be lost for good.

 

[Reflexx]

Paul actually said it best here in this Article
http://winsupersite.com/mobile-devices/nokia-x-preview

So this is essentially then taking a HUGE risk for a small possibility that people may decide to jump on board? Still not a good business decision in my honest opinion....

It still does not answer the question...If they can continue to use their microsoft services ON ANDROID then why would they need to go full windows phone and not just stick with the subjectively better OS(Android).

Oh...maybe they're staying for the tiles.... -_-

I'm not a fan of the phone, but it's not a HUGE risk. Though I don't expect this line to last too long. I personally think that if they're going to go the feature phone route, then using WP7 would be better than this.

However... you're still not getting what my point was.

The point isn't that people will use this and suddenly say, "I love tiles, I'll get a WP!" The point is to prevent new smartphone adopters from becoming entrenched in Google's ecosystem.

If a new person who is wary of WP buys a Samsung or HTC Android phone, they will find themselves engulfed by Google's services. They will use Google for everything.

If they decide to upgrade 2 years later, they may not be afraid of WP anymore by then. WP will have grown and the app disparity will be very close to non-existent.

But if they're using Google everything, what choices do they have? They're already fully invested in Google's world? Their files are all on Google. The services they're used to using are all Google. They're going to stay with Google.

If they are using Microsoft services, then 2 years later they have a choice. A real choice. They might stay with Google... but they also might upgrade to the next phone by the same manufacturer they're currently using. The upgraded versions all run WP, so WP is seen as a step up.

Remember, the existence of the X phone does not prevent people from going Google Android afterwards. However, it does prevent them from becoming fully invested in Google's services so that when they're ready they can still look at WP devices without losing everything they have already.

 

[Reflexx]

They can do all that "investing" on a Lumia 520 so what is the reason for these devices again? It must be the android apps and if that's the case there is a slim to none chance that these users will later opt for a platform with less apps. There's just no scenario where this makes sense over a cheaper L520.

By the time these users are done with the X phone, the app disparity will be pretty much gone. So making a choice based on apps won't be an issue.

And I expect them to still continue to invest in low-end Windows Phones. I think the Windows Phones will be marketed as superior to the X devices.

The X devices are for those that are too wary to try out a Windows Phone. If they're going to go Android anyways, then at least keep them away from becoming dependent on Google's services so that WP will have a shot at them when they upgrade.

 

[Reflexx]

The only problem I have with it is, people using the 'X' line of devices will have all of their apps, such as Plants vs. Zombies 2. If they are doing what is planned and transitioning to Windows Phone, 1) The app isn't available for Windows Phone, so the experience will be slightly worse in some aspects (though this may not apply to many people) 2) People will buy apps from the Nokia Store and move to Windows Phone and will be required to purchase the apps again, which no one wants to do, unless its an awesome app and they want to support the developers. 3) If people move to Windows Phone and buy a 520 they won't be upgrading too much, maybe 4 more GBs of storage, but they can even get 256MB less RAM.

I see no reason not to just make low end Windows Phones and get more developers for WP. Now less people will have an incentive to develop for Windows Phone because a majority of users are in the low end. Lumia 520s have already been selling for as low as $50 at one point, and the 521 was being sold at MetroPCS for $30. I'm sure as time goes on the parts will be cheaper and a 520 will barely cost anything to make. The only way this would make sense is if the rumors are true and Android apps will soon be able to be easily ported over to Windows Phone, but again that lowers the incentive to develop for Windows Phone! I am not seeing much sense either...

I don't expect the Lumia 5xx series to go away. It will still be a better choice for consumers.

But you know that there are many consumers out there that are hesitant to purchase their first smartphone. When they do, they have people telling them to go Android.

MS and Nokia can emphasize that the Lumia 5xx is a better device, but that doesn't mean that people will go for it.

For the ones that can't be convinced, and feel that they have to try Android first, another option can be offered. An option that will allow them to try Android, but also keep them from becoming invested in Google's services. Because if they end up choosing a different Android device, it will be very very very difficult to get them later if all of their files, pictures, etc... are on Google.

 

[Markham Ranja]

So going from a Leading Company with it's own quality software to a ME TOO company taking their competitor's software and having to essentially become just another Android OEM in a world where Android is already dominated heavily by Samsung or other Cheap OEMs? Yeah this doesn't scream success at all. It screams desperation instead of them trying to innovate and strengthen their OWN OS...they now have two oses to worry about

I'm sorry, I should clarify. There is a mismatch.

Success for you and many WP fans here is defined by the OS growing, and everybody else kneels at the WP shrine.

Success for MS: Sales.

I see this as a kind of testing the waters. If the Nokia X works, expect something as amazing as the Lumia 1520 or 1020 appearing with the same software. If those take off (and they will), expect a 'reprioritisation' by MS of their mobile efforts. Oh and they may find that trying to get into a market dominated by iOS and Android is unprofitable and shut down WP.

 

[jlzimmerman]

Yeah, I agree with this article. WPC staff can paint it any way they want, but it's not a good idea.

Nokia’s Forking Of Android Could Benefit Google | TechCrunch

 

[FinancialP]

I like this thread and all of you guys arguments. No name calling just valid points by all parties.

My personal opinion was the Microsoft services were jammed in last minute. As this makes no sense at all.

Remember "using Android is like peeing yourself to stay warm".

When a story doesn't make sense. It's usually a lie.

 

[Nogitsune Micah]

It would be the same if Apple did this method with Google(and probably far worse given their fanbase).

This would not be so unexpected if Microsoft has not spent years bashing the heck out of google....If Microsoft had been like everyone else who does Windows Phone and Android(Samsung and Htc for example) this would not be an issue.

Microsoft has been preaching about how Windows Phone is better and runs better...even on the lowest of lowest specs only to then turn around and use the operating system.

Android sure doesn't help Blackberry out much at all....And they aren't working with a forked android version either. Microsoft is not the first company to ever try something like this(IBM did the same exact thing to Microsoft i believe it was only to bomb in the end).

ANd that is exactly what we are all saying...Another OS to develop for will slow momentum for WIndows Phone thus making OUR EXPERIENCE and why we came to this operating system in the first place despite its shortcomings....and if they prioritize Android over Windows phone then yes, my 1520 will be my last Nokia and Microsoft product as I will then move myself right over to Apple and Apple ecosystem(Especially if they ever do a touchscreen).

I don't worship a shrine of Microsoft or Nokia.....But there is a difference in being a LEADER by innovating and Windows Phone is a unique look at an OS where as Android and IOS and even blackberry all look similar and being a leader by developing a "Me too" device.

And this is exactly what the Nokia X line is....a "Me too" device.

With that said, given how much Negativity Windows RT got, Microsoft should somehow work on their own Chromebook somehow.

It's why I respect apple...For the most part, they never jumped onto the "Me too" train or at least not as often as others have and they innovate their products despite perhaps Google's android beginning to overshadow them and they come out with something i never expected to see on a phone. It's exactly why i'd move to an iPhone simply because they actually have always seemed to care about getting their user experience right.

If windows Phone shuts down due to Microsoft going towards Android, It would not surprise me if this also ate into their Windows platform as a whole....Because i want a Microsoft experience not a Google based Microsoft experience. And many others feel the same way.

I'm sorry, I should clarify. There is a mismatch.

Success for you and many WP fans here is defined by the OS growing, and everybody else kneels at the WP shrine.

Success for MS: Sales.

I see this as a kind of testing the waters. If the Nokia X works, expect something as amazing as the Lumia 1520 or 1020 appearing with the same software. If those take off (and they will), expect a 'reprioritisation' by MS of their mobile efforts. Oh and they may find that trying to get into a market dominated by iOS and Android is unprofitable and shut down WP.