Nokia X & Why it does not make sense lol

[Nogitsune Micah]

Yeah, I agree with this article. WPC staff can paint it any way they want, but it's not a good idea.

Nokia’s Forking Of Android Could Benefit Google | TechCrunch

I am utterly shocked at Daniel and sam and other's reporting of this....I am all for listing the Pros and as stupid as Microsoft seems, I understand the Pros(even if they don't make sense) but literally these articles on Windows Phone central have been NOTHING but "Oh this is a great idea" and "Microsoft certainly can do this the right way."...to the point i am just a bit shocked(as well as overwhelmed with these unnecessary articles) simply because D. Rubino and Co. usually are more objective than they are being.

 

[Jas00555]

Yeah, I agree with this article. WPC staff can paint it any way they want, but it's not a good idea.

Nokia?s Forking Of Android Could Benefit Google | TechCrunch

TechCrunch was the one who put up trolly headlines about how instagram for WP couldn't take pictures, so I wouldn't trust them for WP news as far I could throw them.

 

[Jas00555]

You people who are going "oh, this isn't an on-ramp to WP, it'll kill it, no one will buy WP" are completely missing the point. This isn't to help short-term growth of WP, but more for long-term growth. The fact that this phone runs Android and has more apps than WP is exactly why this is a great idea.

Here, let me paint you a hypothetical timeline:

Year 1: Nokia X launches
Year 2: With Nokia's amazing design and most of the apps of Android, Nokia (now Microsoft) gains 10% control of the android market. Combined with WP, this means that 15% of all phones run Microsoft services.
Year 4(complete speculation, but this is the idea): The X family has 20% of the Android market share, WP has 10% market share. 30% of phones run MS services. The only way for Google to get these people back is to take their apps out of the GMS codebase and put them in AOSP (which would push more OEMs to AOSP, bad news for Google) or put their apps on WP (which would be one less barrier for people to switch to WP, bad news for Android).
Year, lets say... 5: Microsoft makes this X family run WP10. By this time, the app disparity will be gone. MS controls 30% of the market with WP10.

This plan is a great idea. As a matter of fact, writing this has got me thinking of a way that Microsoft could be #1 in the mobile marketplace. Expect that thread in a couple of hours.

 

[Nogitsune Micah]

Yes Yes Yes...I get this.

This is good for Microsoft Services.....But this still not a good idea for Windows Phone which is what most of you are failing to see.
I get how this is great for microsoft services but anyone(including Microsoft themselves) who thinks this is going to suddenly encourage people to move to a lumia because they are too "Stupid" to know a Nokia X is not the same as a Nokia Lumia, is deluded beyond relief.

I am not talking about services. I get the point of the services and Nokia X....This still does nothing positive for the windows Phone and the hopes it would do something positive is essentially a deluded attempt to make what is an even worse idea than WIndows RT sound good.

Microsoft may be a Devices and Services company but don't shun and threaten your devices for the sake of just selling your services...Make a compelling reason for people to get BOTH.
Google does this with Android and Iphone.

If you must copy/use google then at least adopt their way of doing things.

You people who are going "oh, this isn't an on-ramp to WP, it'll kill it, no one will buy WP" are completely missing the point. This isn't to help short-term growth of WP, but more for long-term growth. The fact that this phone runs Android and has more apps than WP is exactly why this is a great idea.

Here, let me paint you a hypothetical timeline:

Year 1: Nokia X launches
Year 2: With Nokia's amazing design and most of the apps of Android, Nokia (now Microsoft) gains 10% control of the android market. Combined with WP, this means that 15% of all phones run Microsoft services.
Year 4(complete speculation, but this is the idea): The X family has 20% of the Android market place, WP has 10% market share. 30% of phones run MS services. The only way for Google to get these people back is to take their apps out of the GMS codebase and put them in AOSP (which would push more OEMs to AOSP, bad news for Google) or put their apps on WP (which would be one less barrier for people to switch to WP, bad news for Android).
Year, lets say... 5: Microsoft makes this X family run WP10. By this time, the app disparity will be gone. MS controls 30% of the market with WP10.

This plan is a great idea. As a matter of fact, writing this has got me thinking of a way that Microsoft could be #1 in the mobile marketplace. Expect that thread in a couple of hours.

 

[tgp]

Here's another off-the-wall scenario:

I've always said that an Android with a good WP launcher could make a better Windows Phone than WP itself. Live Tiles would work better, notifications would work better, Skype would work better, more APIs available means that apps have more access and more capabilities.

Let's imagine that Microsoft was behind this whole Nokia X scheme all along. It's a testbed to see how the theory works. If Microsoft doesn't buy Nokia's hardware division, a Nokia X is only benefiting Microsoft by using Microsoft's services. If they don't own the hardware or the OS, they have little control. As it is they are obligated to keep the WP ball rolling, whether they want to or not. BUT, Microsoft buys Nokia to take 100% control of the hardware. Now they can do whatever they want with it. Any obligations to Nokia are over. Nokia X takes off, Microsoft drops WP completely and goes all in with their forked version of Android. Microsoft benefits by hardware sales, and services on that hardware. They also free up a lot of resources since Google is doing a lot of the work for them. And, the phone works like Microsoft wished that WP could all along.

Disclaimer: this was my own idea. I am not saying it will happen, or should happen. It's just another plot to throw out there.

 

[Nogitsune Micah]

That is kind of what worries me...and why i am already looking elsewhere

Here's another off-the-wall scenario:

I've always said that an Android with a good WP launcher could make a better Windows Phone than WP itself. Live Tiles would work better, notifications would work better, Skype would work better, more APIs available means that apps have more access and more capabilities.

Let's imagine that Microsoft was behind this whole Nokia X scheme all along. It's a testbed to see how the theory works. If Microsoft doesn't buy Nokia's hardware division, a Nokia X is only benefiting Microsoft by using Microsoft's services. If they don't own the hardware or the OS, they have little control. As it is they are obligated to keep the WP ball rolling, whether they want to or not. BUT, Microsoft buys Nokia to take 100% control of the hardware. Now they can do whatever they want with it. Any obligations to Nokia are over. Nokia X takes off, Microsoft drops WP completely and goes all in with their forked version of Android. Microsoft benefits by hardware sales, and services on that hardware. They also free up a lot of resources since Google is doing a lot of the work for them. And, the phone works like Microsoft wished that WP could all along.

Disclaimer: this was my own idea. I am not saying it will happen, or should happen. It's just another plot to throw out there.

 

[aximtreo]

Just to add my thoughts to this discussion. Microsoft is caught between a rock and a hard place here. Yes, they will own Nokia in a few days or so. Yes they knew about the X; when? I don't know.

They can, at any time, after the sale is complete, stop the X project. But, and it's a big BUT; they can't and won't. Microsoft is still trying to get over the WP7 built phones that could not be upgraded to WP8. They can't afford to go through that by killing the X program once units start to be delivered and used.

Now, my question to you is this: If the X begins to erode the low level WP phones market share, do they do away with the 5, 6 level WP phones? I believe MS will have problems with the WP sales from top to bottom if the X series takes off. They will be encouraged to make more and better X phones with equal to or better specs than the top WP phones. Quite a dilemma on the horizon.

 

[Jas00555]

Yes Yes Yes...I get this.

This is good for Microsoft Services.....But this still not a good idea for Windows Phone which is what most of you are failing to see.
I get how this is great for microsoft services but anyone(including Microsoft themselves) who thinks this is going to suddenly encourage people to move to a lumia because they are too "Stupid" to know a Nokia X is not the same as a Nokia Lumia, is deluded beyond relief.

I am not talking about services. I get the point of the services and Nokia X....This still does nothing positive for the windows Phone and the hopes it would do something positive is essentially a deluded attempt to make what is an even worse idea than WIndows RT sound good.

Microsoft may be a Devices and Services company but don't shun and threaten your devices for the sake of just selling your services...Make a compelling reason for people to get BOTH.
Google does this with Android and Iphone.

If you must copy/use google then at least adopt their way of doing things.

I'm not saying that people are too stupid or to believe that a Nokia X and a Nokia Lumia are the same thing. That's not what they're trying to do. Read my "year 5" scenario again. If they can get these devices into the market and have people locked into their services, then in a couple of years, when they kill of the X family, they'll have people locked in to their ecosystem and when the people who use to have a Nokia X have to leave to look for another phone, their easiest choice would be Windows Phone (which at this point will have a better Skype, Outlook, Office, Onedrive, Xbox, than Android could even imagine). Sure, not EVERYONE will make that jump and some may go Android, but the majority will go to WP.

Here, let me give you a scenario and I want you to tell me what you would do. If, hypothetically, you had a iPhone and you use iTunes for your music, used apps exclusively in the app store, used iMessage and Facetime to communicate with a majority of your friends, then Apple comes tomorrow and starts selling Macs for the same price as Windows PCs (because, remember, Android and WP are competing at similar price points) and removes the ability for their iPhones to work with Windows, what would you do? My guess is that you would buy a Mac because it was within your price point and you were locked into Apple's ecosystem. You couldn't move to Android or Windows Phone because you would have to use Hangout/Skype, Xbox Music/Google Music, and the Windows Phone Store/Google Play. If they did that, then more people would buy Macs because people would be locked into the ecosystem. That's the thinking of what Microsoft is doing.

 

[Jas00555]

Just to add my thoughts to this discussion. Microsoft is caught between a rock and a hard place here. Yes, they will own Nokia in a few days or so. Yes they knew about the X; when? I don't know.

They can, at any time, after the sale is complete, stop the X project. But, and it's a big BUT; they can't and won't. Microsoft is still trying to get over the WP7 built phones that could not be upgraded to WP8. They can't afford to go through that by killing the X program once units start to be delivered and used.

Now, my question to you is this: If the X begins to erode the low level WP phones market share, do they do away with the 5, 6 level WP phones? I believe MS will have problems with the WP sales from top to bottom if the X series takes off. They will be encouraged to make more and better X phones with equal to or better specs than the top WP phones. Quite a dilemma on the horizon.

Why couldn't these phones just be upgraded to whatever version of WP that exists at that time? They're introducing lower requirements for WP and there's no reason that the Nokia X family can't run WP since they have similar specs to the 520 and 620 and the 520 easily runs WP8.

 

[tgp]

Why couldn't these phones just be upgraded to whatever version of WP that exists at that time? They're introducing lower requirements for WP and there's no reason that the Nokia X family can't run WP since they have similar specs to the 520 and 620 and the 520 easily runs WP8.

The only way that would be feasible is if the update is OTA. I'm not sure of the logistics of installing an entirely new OS that way.

 

[Jas00555]

The only way that would be feasible is if the update is OTA. I'm not sure of the logistics of installing an entirely new OS that way.

Well, I imagine that it would be OTA. If developing countries don't have the infrastructure to handle that, they could make it possible via a program on Windows like how people install BB leaks, except much cleaner. Anyone who would care about the update would know what to do and anyone who wouldn't care would just buy a Windows Phone when they got a new phone (so says the theory).

 

[Nogitsune Micah]

Why couldn't these phones just be upgraded to whatever version of WP that exists at that time? They're introducing lower requirements for WP and there's no reason that the Nokia X family can't run WP since they have similar specs to the 520 and 620 and the 520 easily runs WP8.

And there is no reason they couldn't start with windows phone to BEGIN with....or at best Dual booted both OS on the phone(Which would then likely increase both market shares as opposed to just Android). Dual Boot still sounds bad but at the very least, it would actually allow developers to actively work on both if they so desired.
Do you really think that FIVE YEARS of this is beneficial to windows phone considering how slow Microsoft is with updating WIndows Phone as is and now they have to then begin developing and keeping up with TWO OS? And if Nokia X does take off, then what will happen to windows phone then? They'll essentially start becoming how Samsung and HTC are with windows phone....Windows phone will become an after thought likely.

You keep saying they will be locked into their ecosystem and by then Windows Phone will have better versions? No offense but that's slightly deluded since Day 1, Android/IOS have already gotten better version or the same versions of the same apps we already have on Windows Phone. It's why people got bugged when things like Xbox games and other features went to Android because they either had the same or better experience.

Locking them into their ecosystem for their SERVICES is great but that does not give anyone incentive to get a Windows Phone over an Android with the same services.

Your Scenario doesn't work because Apple would be removing the entire functionality of me syncing with a Windows PC so I would NEED to buy a mac if i wish to continue using my iPhone....Microsoft is not removing their services from android to make them exclusive to the X line, so that scenario does not work.

Furthermore, nobody is talking about app exclusives because once again...the "Ecosystem of Microsoft apps" is not exclusive to Windows Phone...they have them on Android and IOS and in much better forms.

 

[Jas00555]

And there is no reason they couldn't start with windows phone to BEGIN with....or at best Dual booted both OS on the phone(Which would then likely increase both market shares as opposed to just Android). Dual Boot still sounds bad but at the very least, it would actually allow developers to actively work on both if they so desired.
Do you really think that FIVE YEARS of this is beneficial to windows phone considering how slow Microsoft is with updating WIndows Phone as is and now they have to then begin developing and keeping up with TWO OS? And if Nokia X does take off, then what will happen to windows phone then? They'll essentially start becoming how Samsung and HTC are with windows phone....Windows phone will become an after thought likely.

You keep saying they will be locked into their ecosystem and by then Windows Phone will have better versions? No offense but that's slightly deluded since Day 1, Android/IOS have already gotten better version or the same versions of the same apps we already have on Windows Phone. It's why people got bugged when things like Xbox games and other features went to Android because they either had the same or better experience.

Locking them into their ecosystem for their SERVICES is great but that does not give anyone incentive to get a Windows Phone over an Android with the same services.

Your Scenario doesn't work because Apple would be removing the entire functionality of me syncing with a Windows PC so I would NEED to buy a mac if i wish to continue using my iPhone....Microsoft is not removing their services from android to make them exclusive to the X line, so that scenario does not work.

Furthermore, nobody is talking about app exclusives because once again...the "Ecosystem of Microsoft apps" is not exclusive to Windows Phone...they have them on Android and IOS and in much better forms.

Edit: in my last quote at the bottom, I meant to say Android line, not X. The WPC app is too unstable and buggy to let me fix it since it won't load the entire thing.
I think that this disagreement boils down to the fact that I have more faith in Microsoft than you do. Under Nadella, I have faith that Microsoft will move from their Ballmer ways where everything was separated by departments and people were fighting against each other and that the One Microsoft vision will be in full swing.

Either way, let me break it down.

"There is no reason they couldn't start with Windows Phone to begin with"

Yes there is, right now, WP doesn't have the app ecosystem that Android does. They need people in their ecosystem before Google could get ahold of them, and right now, Android is a faster way than WP. Eventually, WP will reach app parity and when they do, then they can start to transition people from X to Lumias.

"Android and iOS have better MS apps"

Which I expect to change (this argument is all opinion-based since I think the WP version will eventually be better while you think they won't)

"that does not give anyone incentive to get a Windows Phone over an Android with the same services"

If they kill the X family and people who own those phones are locked into those services, that is a huge incentive. I would rather switch from just an OS when there's another OS that functions similarly as opposed an entirely different ecosystem.

"Microsoft is not removing their services from the X line"

No, but if everything on Google's Android is optimized for Google and everything on WP is optimized for Microsoft and the X family runs an OS similar to WP, it would be a much easier transition to WP than it would be to Google's Android.

 

[tgp]

"Android and iOS have better MS apps"

Which I expect to change (this argument is all opinion-based since I think the WP version will eventually be better while you think they won't)

At this point it doesn't seem to be possible to make the apps better on WP, probably due to OS restrictions. I would think Microsoft would've already done it if they could have. That's why I say that Android can make a better WP than WP itself.

 

[Reflexx]

Keeping people away from being stuck in Google services has value.

It seems everyone is conveniently ignoring that.

 

[Nogitsune Micah]

Keeping people away from being stuck in Google services has value.

It seems everyone is conveniently ignoring that.

You mean keeping everyone away from Google services while being stuck in their operating system...people keep conveniently ignoring that

 

[theefman]

I'm not saying that people are too stupid or to believe that a Nokia X and a Nokia Lumia are the same thing. That's not what they're trying to do. Read my "year 5" scenario again. If they can get these devices into the market and have people locked into their services, then in a couple of years, when they kill of the X family, they'll have people locked in to their ecosystem and when the people who use to have a Nokia X have to leave to look for another phone, their easiest choice would be Windows Phone (which at this point will have a better Skype, Outlook, Office, Onedrive, Xbox, than Android could even imagine). Sure, not EVERYONE will make that jump and some may go Android, but the majority will go to WP.

Here, let me give you a scenario and I want you to tell me what you would do. If, hypothetically, you had a iPhone and you use iTunes for your music, used apps exclusively in the app store, used iMessage and Facetime to communicate with a majority of your friends, then Apple comes tomorrow and starts selling Macs for the same price as Windows PCs (because, remember, Android and WP are competing at similar price points) and removes the ability for their iPhones to work with Windows, what would you do? My guess is that you would buy a Mac because it was within your price point and you were locked into Apple's ecosystem. You couldn't move to Android or Windows Phone because you would have to use Hangout/Skype, Xbox Music/Google Music, and the Windows Phone Store/Google Play. If they did that, then more people would buy Macs because people would be locked into the ecosystem. That's the thinking of what Microsoft is doing.

The problem with your argument, and all other arguments for this ridiculous strategy, is that Microsoft services arent that compelling AND they already exist on Windows and android phones today yet have had no effect on bringing people to Microsoft's platforms, either WP or full Windows. So unless there is some special sauce that is added to the services on Nokia x devices the value of MS services is being vastly overestimated and will not have the desired effect.

 

[Ricardo Dawkins]

What we want is to prevent people from investing in Google services. Why? Because if they are invested in those services, then it creates a barrier to using WP in the future.

If they are using MS services, then they may adopt WP in the future.

Do you mean the future where there is not Windows Phone and Windows as an OS is crumbling to the attack of ChromeOS and Android?

It's why I respect apple...For the most part, they never jumped onto the "Me too" train or at least not as often as others have and they innovate their products despite perhaps Google's android beginning to overshadow them and they come out with something i never expected to see on a phone. It's exactly why i'd move to an iPhone simply because they actually have always seemed to care about getting their user experience right.

yes, I agree. A few things stop me getting a iPhone right now...mainly the price...but if they come with some big screen iPhone...I will consider jumping out of this embarrasing mess called Windows Phone when even its own father doesn't care one iota about it.

I am utterly shocked at Daniel and sam and other's reporting of this....I am all for listing the Pros and as stupid as Microsoft seems, I understand the Pros(even if they don't make sense) but literally these articles on Windows Phone central have been NOTHING but "Oh this is a great idea" and "Microsoft certainly can do this the right way."...to the point i am just a bit shocked(as well as overwhelmed with these unnecessary articles) simply because D. Rubino and Co. usually are more objective than they are being.

They can't report anything else....because MSFT & NOKIA left them (and us) hanging. They simple don't know how to keep momentum. They should have something in regards to WP available for MWC. But, MSFT have been so slow while developing this update

This is good for Microsoft Services.....But this still not a good idea for Windows Phone which is what most of you are failing to see.
I get how this is great for microsoft services but anyone(including Microsoft themselves) who thinks this is going to suddenly encourage people to move to a lumia because they are too "Stupid" to know a Nokia X is not the same as a Nokia Lumia, is deluded beyond relief.

I agree... a lot of delusion. Nokia X should be killed if Nadella has any brain cell working.

 

[Ricardo Dawkins]

They can't afford to go through that by killing the X program once units start to be delivered and used.

They should go and replace every X with a equivalent Lumia ASAP even if they lose 7 billions dollars doing it. If they don't do this...they can kiss their Windows dominance goodbye.
IF ANDROID IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR NOKIA X..it is good enough for Surface RT and all those RT tablets...

IF ANDROID IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR NOKIA X...it is good enough for their Xbox consoles

.... in a few years it will be good enough to start replacing Windows on every x86 hardware excluding servers...

Now...they can live on their services revenue on the consumer side while somebody else takes cares of the hardware and we are all part of the Google borg.

 

[Jas00555]

At this point it doesn't seem to be possible to make the apps better on WP, probably due to OS restrictions. I would think Microsoft would've already done it if they could have. That's why I say that Android can make a better WP than WP itself.

Eh, maybe... maybe not. I'm not that familiar with the limitations of the OS, but I disagree that they would do it if they could, I say that we wait for BUILD 2014 for that. That may have been the case with CE since that's an antiquated kernel, but with the switch to NT, I think they can make some pretty amazing app, they just haven't had time to do it yet. Daniel Gary was saying the same thing, but I think it's just a matter of time before we can make a call on that.