1. Luminatic's Avatar
    Hi all,

    I'm THAT close to deleting my TheVerge account. It's not the articles, but I have an issue with the tone in discussions there, with people declaring their opinions as facts, using a very low-level language and not being openminded enough to accept other peoples tastes even though they are different to their own. :mad:

    I'm talking about this thread:

    My thoughts on why Windows Phone isn't attracting customers | The Verge Forums

    It started with a well thought-of statement ending up with some user(s) under-the-belt and very narrow-minded bashing.

    Am I the only one feeling this way? :@
    06-01-2012 04:43 AM
  2. AngryNil's Avatar
    The Verge community has steadily deteriorated since launch, and I predict it will become the mess of Engadget in a few months if moderators don't do anything. Here's the crux of the issue - pretty much no one on the team really cares a great deal about Microsoft products and hence, their coverage and tone on Microsoft is generally indifferent. What kind of community does that foster?

    It's essentially the problem that every site will run into at some point - the coverage and articles published will gravitate towards a certain audience, and that will mean that there will be minorities who will have a hard time getting their opinions out. This is especially bad when a voting or recommending system is in place, as it incentivises groups to belittle lone commenters.

    It definitely does not help that the editor in chief decided to lash back at Microsoft enthusiasts / fanatics, stirring up the community even further. The sad part is instead of learning from the criticism, Topolsky just fired back in the same manner as the "trolls" who riled him up. Does he not realise that perhaps he is not as familiar with Microsoft, and as such made more mistakes?

    I listen to the Vergecast and the Verge Mobile Show every week, and the thing that gets on my nerves the most is when they consider Windows Phone to be categorically worse than Android and iOS. When Chris Ziegler called out Vlad Savov on his comments, it took a good minute for Savov to come up with some arguments against Windows Phone - and, like any platform is perfect? Heck, they were talking about flashing custom ROMs the minute before.

    I'll be hopefully writing up a series on the deficiencies of Windows Phone, but from the perspective of an enthusiast and someone who has done his research. I know that apps can be resumed from the app list via a simple tweak (it has to do with how the apps are compiled), I know my first gen device can handle an eight-item task switcher. I read Rafael's great piece and I now know what Skype's back-end is like, I know Windows Phone is not as severely limited in multitasking as it might seem - it simply doesn't have a defined background agent that allows for VoIP or IRC to remain running in the background.

    I'm thinking of sticking solely to the forums, and reading the articles through something like Readability (sorry Pocket, but release an app for Windows Phone and I'll switch) so I don't have to see the comments.
    Last edited by AngryNil; 06-01-2012 at 05:30 AM.
    06-01-2012 05:21 AM
  3. invertme's Avatar
    The verge "community" is a bunch of tools. I went a total of two times and after reading the comments people left and the terrible quality of the article I was done. Never going back there again.
    theefman likes this.
    06-01-2012 08:10 AM
  4. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Tom Warren's articles are good. He also Tweets about Windows Phone (and all things Microsoft-related) @tomwarren.
    06-01-2012 09:16 AM
  5. bigkevbosky's Avatar
    I've been on the internet for the better part of 16 years and in that time the most important thing I've learned is - it's best to avoid forums.

    Now, this community is an exception - it has great support from mods and website admin to keep the "trash" away.

    But most comment sections/forums are nothing but negativity and trolling. I don't really understand why "anonymity" turns to "freedom to troll" on the web, but it does. Its better if you just avoid that kind of stuff completely, and stick to "front-page" material on websites. The Verge is no exception.
    Last edited by bigkevbosky; 06-01-2012 at 09:35 AM.
    dannejanne likes this.
    06-01-2012 09:25 AM
  6. tekhna's Avatar
    See, here's the thing, I think there's something to this article. Aesthetics matter, a lot.
    Think of the battle between Android and iOS as the Myspace/Facebook fight all over again.

    Myspace was a cluttered, chaotic, aesthetic mess, anything goes. The same is largely true of Android. It's possible to have a gorgeous Android homescreen, but for some reason people think piling more deeper and higher is better.

    Facebook is sterile, neat, controlled, limited, much like iOS. But there are certain advantages to that aesthetic, as both facebook and Apple have realized.

    The result of that aesthetic is something unintended--a pretty obvious split between the respective audiences for their products. Back when Myspace was a thing, there was a "white flight" from myspace to facebook.

    Facebook, MySpace: A race/class divide? | Technically Incorrect - CNET News
    Viewing American class divisions through Facebook and MySpace
    Facebook, MySpace Divide Along Social Lines : NPR

    Edit: So I'm not sure where that leaves WP7, aesthetically. It's gorgeous, obviously, but to whom does it appeal? I love text and fonts, so I've always loved the UI.
    Last edited by tekhna; 06-01-2012 at 10:25 AM.
    06-01-2012 10:09 AM
  7. Luminatic's Avatar
    Thank you all for your feedback! So I'm NOT the one going crazy ;-)

    I don't mind different opinions if they're stated as such in a polite manner. But I do mind what's going on in lots of forums (not here, thanks god!) Apparently anonymity brings out the worst in some people. Or, in other words: People show their true colours when anonymous.

    Now, I'm also a member of a german-speaking smartphone forum and in general, people are polite and have a sense of humour. For example, I had to bring in my Lumia 800 for repair (shattered screen after a drop. I could kick myself.) and got a HTC one S as a temporary replacement. As I thought a few people might be interested in a comparison, I started such a thread. So far, everyone is polite in the thread, there are, of course, some friendly jokes (like: Be careful that you stay faithful to your Nokia device, HTC is sooo good) :P.
    I hope that my german-speaking forum and wpcentral stay as they are - those are the two forums that helped me a lot when choosing my phone.


    @tekhna:
    I agree - Aesthetics matter. But aesthetics are, IMHO, a matter of opinion (What's pretty to person A can be ugly to person B and bland to person C) and this should be respected - which is exactly the thing that isn't done by some verge members. Aesthetics was, btw, one of the points that brought me to WP! Now that I am thrown back to Android, I must say that, while I think Android made some progress and the hardware has become much better (HTC one S is a good phone, no doubt about that), I now know why I went to WP. It just works better for me. (t took me one or two days to get used to WP, and even after a short WP usage (4 weeks), Android already feels foreign and I just find stuff very easily there. I also remember playing with a WP in winter - all the moves just came naturally, which was never the case in any other os I used.

    Also, Aesthetics are, I think, changeable in most peoples' minds. Have a look at fashion. A new style comes out (say, trousers that are cut in away like never before). First, most people might shake their heads, and a few other people will try on the new troursers, feel adventurous, buy them and wear them. After a while, those trousers might become prettier in the eyes of some of the former naysayers because their eyes used to those trousers. More people will wear them. This goes on and on, until those trousers, which were, in the beginning, shockingly different and ugly to most, become the standard.

    I think if MS and the hardware producers play their cards right (Advertising! Make people aware of WP in a good way! Be insistent, be patient!), WP has a change to become more popular. At least I hope so.


    (sorry for any typos and mistakes ... English is not my first language and my writing tends to get error-loaded when I'm emotional. There. I said it. A windows product is making me emotional. Jesus. Must be the separation from my Lumia. ;))
    06-01-2012 10:38 AM
  8. N8ter's Avatar
    Hi all,

    I'm THAT close to deleting my TheVerge account. It's not the articles, but I have an issue with the tone in discussions there, with people declaring their opinions as facts, using a very low-level language and not being openminded enough to accept other peoples tastes even though they are different to their own. :mad:

    I'm talking about this thread:

    My thoughts on why Windows Phone isn't attracting customers | The Verge Forums

    It started with a well thought-of statement ending up with some user(s) under-the-belt and very narrow-minded bashing.

    Am I the only one feeling this way? :@
    There are two sides to every coin.

    While most fans congregate on forums like this, there are those with less favorable views and they go to different places. It doesn't matter where you go: CNET, Engadget, BGR, TheVerge, Other Forums, Facebook, etc. They're there. And they're more populous than you are. There's nothing you can do about it.

    If you don't have a problem with the article, then read the article and close the browser tab/window.

    But I bet some Android users who tried WP7 would say the same thing about the WPCentral Blog or WMPowerUser - nevermind those blogs are well known for mod-editing comments or IP banning people who don't have shining opinions of their favored platforms. If that's what you want Verge and other sites to do, than it won't happen. They have a bit more respect for their visitors.

    In any case, those comments aren't that bad. It's nothing compared to what I see on facebook on a daily bases under WP7-related posts.

    Thank you all for your feedback! So I'm NOT the one going crazy ;-)
    You can only expect agreement here. I think that's why you posted this on this forum and not as a comment under that blog article, right?
    06-01-2012 10:51 AM
  9. freestaterocker's Avatar
    Not to mention they coded their comments section in such a way as to completely exclude WP users browsing on their phone...
    06-01-2012 12:08 PM
  10. theefman's Avatar
    The verge is a waste of time, even with Tom Warren, you wont miss anything by not going there. Wpcentral is the best place for WP news, despite the efforts of a certain few, so is WMPoweruser but you have to look past their sometimes poor headlines and writing. Allaboutwindowsphone and Liveside are also good, the latter especially for Live services. Last stop is a new site I found, ultrabooknews.com which has good writers.

    Any other site I've found is typically run by apple and google fanboys and the members are the same and not worth visiting. Ultimately though, its the opinions and experiences of actual users that I find most useful, but still trust my own judgement over that of anyone else.
    06-01-2012 12:52 PM
  11. Luminatic's Avatar
    @N8ter
    Maybe a little. It was more like I decided for myself that I can't change the mind of people and it is a waste of time trying so. And as I was angry - yes, more bashing and badmouthing was the last thing I needed.
    06-01-2012 12:57 PM
  12. gwydionjhr's Avatar
    I still poke around the Verge. I like to hold their feet to the fire when they get something wrong.

    I dunnon if anyone caught the post I did about them having stats on the L900 wrong in the big comparison chart they did. I sent them a direct message pointing out the errors, but after an hour and no correction being forthcoming, I put a post up on the forum pointing out the error. In my replies to comments I actually specifically stated that I did not feel it was done intentionally by the Verge.

    The entire thread was eventually pulled, and I even received a warning along the lines that I had stated it was intentional. I emailed twice to protest the warning, and ask that they identify the text I had written that stated what I was accused of saying, but they just ignored it.
    06-01-2012 01:01 PM
  13. thed's Avatar
    I used to read the Verge when it first launched but I gave up. Seems like everybody there hates MS except for Tom Warren.

    I miss good old WinRumors.
    06-01-2012 01:08 PM
  14. AngryNil's Avatar
    You can only expect agreement here. I think that's why you posted this on this forum and not as a comment under that blog article, right?
    If you think The Verge has a balanced community, you're horribly wrong.
    06-01-2012 08:34 PM
  15. eastbayrae's Avatar
    The Verge has forums? I read it for tech news that doesn't concern Microsoft. Most don't think that if Microsoft wasn't around you would have only Apple and Linux.
    06-01-2012 08:51 PM
  16. sting7k's Avatar
    What's a "The Verge"?
    Last edited by sting2k7; 06-01-2012 at 09:05 PM.
    06-01-2012 08:56 PM
  17. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    What's a "The Verge"?
    The Verge
    06-01-2012 11:26 PM
  18. Daniel Rubino's Avatar
    Tom Warren's articles are good. He also Tweets about Windows Phone (and all things Microsoft-related) @tomwarren.
    Although I'll forever find it funny that he uses an iPhone, don't forget that ;-)
    scottcraft likes this.
    06-02-2012 02:32 AM
  19. Big Bang Radar's Avatar
    I'll forever ignore The Verge. Not to mention their site is bloated to ****. I use WPC/WMPU for WinPhone news, Engadget for the rest.

    Edit: Do you guys honestly censor the word h3ll? Seriously?
    06-02-2012 08:52 AM
  20. HeyCori's Avatar
    I don't mind the Verge. They have some good articles and well written reviews. Vlad Savov has been generous to Windows Phone and I enjoy his writing, but every tech site will have their fair share of bias writers. I think the Verge stands out a bit more because it's run by Josh T. who is on record as calling Windows "poison." Even coming out of retirement to make sure the Lumia 900 was properly tarnished in his review. I don't hate Josh but he does have a strong influence on the site and his coworkers.
    06-02-2012 10:13 AM
  21. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Although I'll forever find it funny that he uses an iPhone, don't forget that ;-)
    Looks like he's device agnostic. I see he's used iPhone, iPad, rowi for Windows Phone, TweetDeck, Tweetro, and rowi for Windows 8, when I looked at his recent Tweets.
    06-02-2012 10:25 AM
  22. gwydionjhr's Avatar
    Vlad Savov has been generous to Windows Phone
    Haven't listened to the latest VMP yet have we?
    Last edited by gwydionjhr; 06-02-2012 at 10:58 AM. Reason: double quote
    06-02-2012 10:57 AM
  23. HeyCori's Avatar
    Haven't listened to the latest VMP yet have we?
    I have not. Has he gone full Josh?
    06-02-2012 11:38 AM
  24. socialcarpet's Avatar
    See, here's the thing, I think there's something to this article. Aesthetics matter, a lot.
    Think of the battle between Android and iOS as the Myspace/Facebook fight all over again.

    Myspace was a cluttered, chaotic, aesthetic mess, anything goes. The same is largely true of Android. It's possible to have a gorgeous Android homescreen, but for some reason people think piling more deeper and higher is better.

    Facebook is sterile, neat, controlled, limited, much like iOS. But there are certain advantages to that aesthetic, as both facebook and Apple have realized.

    The result of that aesthetic is something unintended--a pretty obvious split between the respective audiences for their products. Back when Myspace was a thing, there was a "white flight" from myspace to facebook.

    Facebook, MySpace: A race/class divide? | Technically Incorrect - CNET News
    Viewing American class divisions through Facebook and MySpace
    Facebook, MySpace Divide Along Social Lines : NPR

    Edit: So I'm not sure where that leaves WP7, aesthetically. It's gorgeous, obviously, but to whom does it appeal? I love text and fonts, so I've always loved the UI.
    Android is Myspace.

    iOS is Facebook.

    ....and WP7 is Twitter.

    Why? Because Twitter breaks information down into it's simplest components. It's simply the cleanest, most efficient way to communicate and get the information you want and need quickly with a minimum of window dressing and distraction. It doesn't do everything Myspace and Facebook do, but that can be a good thing if you would rather spend more time engaged in the real world outside the backlit screen.
    06-04-2012 01:39 PM
  25. socialcarpet's Avatar
    Personally I don't read The Verge. The only time I visit the page is once in a rare while when someone posts a link like this to another insipid fanboy-baiting anti-WP article they've written to drum up page views.

    It's not that they've been critical of WP so much as I just don't think the writing is particularly good and they pretend to be objective when they are anything but, and that extends to everything, not just WP7.

    I don't have a blog, but I did study journalism and I can say with complete confidence, I can out write anyone on that entire sh*tshow of a website.

    There are so many tech blogs out there of much higher caliber, you could never read them all. Why even waste time with The Verge or that hipster twink Josh Topolsky?
    06-04-2012 01:47 PM
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