1. Chregu's Avatar
    No. Just that the keyboard blows the Charms bar out of the water.
    Sorry, I read a little too fast.
    06-05-2014 11:23 AM
  2. sd173's Avatar
    It's quicker to Alt+F4>Enter>Enter.

    Then again, the keyboard renders the Charms bar useless at times.
    Win-Q to search, Win-P to project, Win-D to desktop, Win-X for advanced options, Win for Start...
    Not too useless if you have the charms on the keyboard like with the Surface keyboards.
    06-05-2014 11:24 AM
  3. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    They changed the UI from Windows Phone 7 to Windows Phone 8 (7.8) already.
    They also did so to accommodate larger devices in Update 3, though it was optional.

    Besides, all they did add were small tiles, which can be just as informative given the right kind of app and live tile.
    06-05-2014 11:25 AM
  4. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    Not too useless if you have the charms on the keyboard like with the Surface keyboards.
    The charms are on the keyboard. You toggle the charms using the keyboard.

    I stand by my statement that the keyboard blows Charms out of the water, but in more ways than one this time ;)
    06-05-2014 11:27 AM
  5. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    I think it works be a time waster as a live tile. If you have a whole bunch of notifications then you would either have to wait for the tile to flip through them all (or scroll though them once they make interactive tiles) or open the app and wait for it to load everything - which would take way longer than just swiping down from the top of the screen to see the notifications and quick settings. Plus its way easier to get to the settings now. Sure I could've pinned the settings tile to the top of the start screen (I did that on my 900) but that means I'd have to press start and then move my finger to where I had it to open it if I wasn't already in the start screen. I think it's all about reducing time/unnecessary sleeps with the notification center being like it is.

    Don't you think thinking WP will die is just a little under thought? WP will never have multiple home screens or look like anything that will go against their branding. And so what if people want it to be more like Android? Since they won't change the UI, it could only mean more features and more people migrating to WP.

    I didn't say take the settings away just the notifications. I was thinking more of a live tile that expands not opening an app or waiting for it flip. That's what I meant by special.

    My point about WP is they are dammed if they do and dammed of they don't. They're in a no win situation. Devs still ignore WP. Major apps still missing. Still low take up in the USA and their services in other countries is subpar. So how long do you keep kicking a dread horse? Or drop it to a 3rd world market and forget about the USA? Where is the point of failure?
    06-05-2014 11:29 AM
  6. Chregu's Avatar
    They also did so to accommodate larger devices in Update 3, though it was optional.

    Besides, all they did add were small tiles, which can be just as informative given the right kind of app and live tile.
    They did more than that. They were so proud of the negative space of the Windows Phone 7 home screen.

    Why the Windows Phone 7 Start Page Has Blank Spots | Pocketnow

    I don't find the Microsoft feature about it right now, but they explained this in detail. Only to forget everything about it for Windows Phone 8. They changed their design philosophy heavily with this switch.
    sd173 likes this.
    06-05-2014 11:32 AM
  7. sd173's Avatar
    Having a notification centre went against the whole WP philosophy. People just complained continually and MS caved. As for the search button I find that annoying on WP and wish it was something I could turn off.

    Both notifications and search should be turned off for games as an option.
    This is why I wanted all new Windows Phones to have virtual buttons - if you didn't want the search button it works be easier to have add a way to just remove it - or add a quick setting instead like cellular data or Wi-Fi, but that would sort of do the same thing as the notification center so...
    06-05-2014 11:32 AM
  8. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    Okay, that's it. Let's call it a day for intense tech debate and let sahib into the thread again.

    (And what happened to those pictures?)
    sd173 likes this.
    06-05-2014 11:35 AM
  9. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    Wait, keep going!

    At this rate, we'll hit 75k by tomorrow!
    sd173 likes this.
    06-05-2014 11:37 AM
  10. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    This reminds me of a certain cryst-fairy who kept screaming "Keep going!", at least until her plan to please her master was complete.
    06-05-2014 11:38 AM
  11. sd173's Avatar
    I didn't say take the settings away just the notifications. I was thinking more of a live tile that expands not opening an app or waiting for it flip. That's what I meant by special.

    My point about WP is they are dammed if they do and dammed of they don't. They're in a no win situation. Devs still ignore WP. Major apps still missing. Still low take up in the USA and their services in other countries is subpar. So how long do you keep kicking a dread horse? Or drop it to a 3rd world market and forget about the USA? Where is the point of failure?
    Well now that more developers are starting to develop for Windows Phone and helping it even more to become the fastest growing OS things might change in the near future, especially when they overtake iOS in 2017 like IDC predicted.
    06-05-2014 11:39 AM
  12. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    Well now that more developers are starting to develop for Windows Phone and helping it even more to become the fastest growing OS things might change in the near future, especially when they overtake iOS in 2017 like IDC predicted.
    If there's one thing I learned during my time in the tech world, it's "don't trust analysts."
    They rely on conditions remaining constant for their predictions to be accurate.
    06-05-2014 11:41 AM
  13. Chregu's Avatar
    Well now that more developers are starting to develop for Windows Phone and helping it even more to become the fastest growing OS things might change in the near future, especially when they overtake iOS in 2017 like IDC predicted.
    I wrote that before, when you have almost no marketshare it's very easy to have the fastest growing OS. Growth is relative. If you sell one phone in one month, and then two phones the next month, you have a growth of 100 %. When Apple sells a million phones in one month and a million and one phone the next phone, they have no growth at all.

    Anyway, I'm off to dinner and a concert.
    06-05-2014 11:42 AM
  14. sd173's Avatar
    If there's one thing I learned during my time in the tech world, it's "don't trust analysts."
    They rely on conditions remaining constant for their predictions to be accurate.
    Well I'm saying that mainly because I think it'll definitely happen in a few years - I never read their report or anything just their prediction.
    06-05-2014 11:43 AM
  15. sd173's Avatar
    I wrote that before, when you have almost no marketshare it's very easy to have the fastest growing OS. Growth is relative. If you sell one phone in one month, and then two phones the next month, you have a growth of 100 %. When Apple sells a million phones in one month and a million and one phone the next phone, they have no growth at all.

    Anyway, I'm off to dinner and a concert.
    But some developers might not think that and seeing that might help to get them onboard with WP.
    06-05-2014 11:45 AM
  16. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    I wrote that before, when you have almost no marketshare it's very easy to have the fastest growing OS. Growth is relative. If you sell one phone in one month, and then two phones the next month, you have a growth of 100 %. When Apple sells a million phones in one month and a million and one phone the next phone, they have no growth at all.

    Anyway, I'm off to dinner and a concert.
    Good luck at your dinner and concert.

    Break a leg! (Figuratively, of course.)
    sd173 and Chregu like this.
    06-05-2014 11:45 AM
  17. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    But some developers might not think that and seeing that might help to get them onboard with WP.
    I don't know. The Wii U had an impressive sales bump lately, but I still don't see that third-party support.

    Growth is irrelevant if you don't have a large installed base to begin with.
    06-05-2014 11:46 AM
  18. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Well now that more developers are starting to develop for Windows Phone and helping it even more to become the fastest growing OS things might change in the near future, especially when they overtake iOS in 2017 like IDC predicted.

    When you're last any step you take looks large. So fastest growing OS in 3rd world countries. More devs but not the main players. So 3rd party apps which to some means 3rd class.

    2017 is three years away. All it would take is Apple to make a good budget phone and WP would be screwed.
    Last edited by N_LaRUE; 06-05-2014 at 11:58 AM.
    WanderingTraveler likes this.
    06-05-2014 11:47 AM
  19. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    I don't know. The Wii U had an impressive sales bump lately, but I still don't see that third-party support.

    Growth is irrelevant if you don't have a large installed base to begin with.
    And please don't tell me you see that kind of growth only in small markets.

    The Wii U doubled its sales...in Japan. And they sold roughly 16-17k units. (Selling more than the PS3, PS4 and XBOX 360 combined.)

    EDIT: I was trying to state a parallel example, since I have not hard numbers for WP as a whole.
    06-05-2014 11:49 AM
  20. sahib lopez's Avatar
    I will say it again.... forget the US and work on other countries that are helping windows phone
    sd173 likes this.
    06-05-2014 11:52 AM
  21. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    I will say it again.... forget the US and work on other countries that are helping windows phone
    Catch-22. A lot of prominent devs and studios are based in the US, and Ameeicans are their target audience.
    06-05-2014 11:58 AM
  22. sahib lopez's Avatar
    Catch-22. A lot of prominent devs and studios are based in the US, and Ameeicans are their target audience.
    yeah that are far up apples and googles ... behind
    06-05-2014 11:59 AM
  23. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Okay, that's it. Let's call it a day for intense tech debate and let sahib into the thread again.

    (And what happened to those pictures?)
    No pictures sorry. No time.
    sd173 and WanderingTraveler like this.
    06-05-2014 12:00 PM
  24. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    yeah that are far up apples and googles ... behind
    You also have the fact that a lot of Microsoft services only work properly in the US.
    sahib lopez likes this.
    06-05-2014 12:00 PM
  25. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    No pictures sorry. No time.
    I see.

    This reminds me of something.

    A lot of game developers nowadays rely on false promises, false release dates, false trailers. I miss the good old days when developers would just shut up and ship (without bugs, of course.)
    06-05-2014 12:02 PM
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