1. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Don't go to crazy in your reply...
    Did I do OK?
    01-26-2017 07:40 AM
  2. libra89's Avatar
    That just seems wrong on so many levels...
    Right? This makes no sense.
    N_LaRUE and Laura Knotek like this.
    01-26-2017 07:41 AM
  3. libra89's Avatar
    I did mention that some atheist are jerks.

    The marching wasn't just in the US and maybe you don't understand that context. There was every justification for the march. A misogynistic jerk is in office. He's going to deliver every Republican wet dream of wiping women's rights away. There's a very long history, more than I want to type really, but there's been a long running battle of women's rights to determine their reproductive rights and other rights and those of the far right wingers. It's been going for some time.

    Here's something to think about. When abortions are available without shame women get them done safely and with care. They don't just get them because. However, when that ability is removed the service goes underground. Women die and feel ashamed.

    There's more but that's a good starting point.
    This (and also the other points you shared earlier).
    I wish that there was an applause emoji.

    It's ridiculous and scary. I'm not a fan in general, but I'm surely not a fan as a lady myself. It needs to be left alone.
    N_LaRUE and Laura Knotek like this.
    01-26-2017 07:52 AM
  4. libra89's Avatar
    Is this food?
    Yeah the Crunch is a chocolate bar with rice in it. The one underneath it is candy.
    N_LaRUE, Laura Knotek and Rose640 like this.
    01-26-2017 07:53 AM
  5. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Did I do OK?
    You were spot-on. 👍
    libra89 and N_LaRUE like this.
    01-26-2017 12:42 PM
  6. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    I see you're up on the 'bash' terms that a lot of men sites use to belittle the feminist movement.

    I'm going to use my personal experience here. I'm not always up for talking about myself but in this instance I can at least relate to it.

    Anyone easily offended by the term atheist or anti-theist might want to bypass this post.

    So I mentioned in an earlier post I'm an atheist, I'm also anti-theist. I've been one since about my early 20's (probably a touch earlier). However at the time I didn't think much of it. Generally kept it to myself, didn't see any point in admitting it, went about my life without much thought.

    In 2006 a book came out which changed my opinion about that and my thinking towards more activism thoughts. The book was The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. Aside from clarifying my own personal thoughts on things it also opened my mind up to more scientific thinking.

    The term 'New Atheists' was coined as a way of insult, to differentiate from the 'Old Atheist' and other terms emerged to try to make atheist appear 'mean, nasty and horrible'. The most laughable of these is the term 'fundamentalist atheist' which is so ridiculous because there is no doctrine in being an atheist. However, the whole exercise was to belittle, undermine and generally try to shut up atheists. Now that's not to say that some atheists aren't jerks or that some aren't more provocative than others, Christopher Hitchens is a good example of this.

    The thing is you need a variety of people when you have movements. Some will come across more strident than others. They will say things that will generally upset you. Make you angry. Make you question things. Evoke emotion. But that's a good thing.

    Now these popular atheists have had death threats, insults and so on thrown at them. (If you want to listen to something really funny, I highly recommend you find the YouTube video of Richard Dawkins reading his hate mail. It's really amusing.) It's part and parcel of being a popular person in a movement.

    Now what's my point in this? Well we have a 'new' feminist movement. Kind of interesting how the word new seems to keep cropping up as a way of differentiating between the original movement and today. A lot of the same tropes that were used in the New Atheist movement are now being used in current feminist movement. In a bizarre twist of irony in this is that the new feminist movement has ended up dividing the new atheist movement. You can't make this stuff up I tell ya.

    One of the bigger issues here is that when we talk about feminism a lot gets lost in some very basic facts. Women make up 50% of the population (actually a little more if memory serves) however they are hugely under represented in politics, employment and generally seen as second class citizens. Which is pretty sad when you think about that and let it sink in.

    Here's something to get your head around. Science has recently found that the male brain and the female brain are no different. There's always been this assumption it was but it isn't. Also the nonsense about right and left brain is incorrect as well. There is only one real thing that differentiates women from men. That is they can get pregnant. Yes their bodies are a bit different and they are generally not as strong but on the whole that's the usual sticking point. Is it right to discriminate a whole 50% of the population simply because they have a womb and give birth? Because to put it in the simplest terms, that's what being done.

    Our perception of what makes a woman or a man is purely cultural. There's more and more studies being done on this but they're finding that our preconceived ideas about sexual identity is purely a cultural abstract of what we expect. You could say we've gone out of our way to make a man 'X' and a women 'Y' simply because of physical difference and not for any other reason.

    The new feminist movement needs provocateurs as much as the New Atheist movement did and still does. Without them we don't have a movement. The worrying thing however is that for the simple reason it's women, there's this feeling that it's OK to 'shock' a woman back to being 'a women' by saying simply vile things. People (mostly men) feel justified in doing so. Without much thought on what their words or threats mean to that person. Most male provocateurs don't get gang rape threats.

    The term feminazi might seem amusing but you miss the point of it. It's sole purpose is to shut down conversation. To belittle, to subdue. These words are there to generalise and stereotype feminist. Just like other insults typically thrown at feminist. It's no different than someone calling me a fundamental atheist. Though I find it amusing it amounts to the same thing.

    Now I'm not saying that everything about a movement is good there are always people taking things to extremes but that shouldn't detract from the message. That being that women are more than just things. They have desires outside of wanting to bear children. They are as human as men and that their desires are worthwhile.

    I know that a lot of women don't necessarily agree with a quota systems for work places but sometimes you need to start somewhere. Sometimes you need to force an issue. It's OK to disagree with that but you need to look at the bigger picture.

    Even though there was a feminist movement so many years ago, isn't it interesting that we're still at the same place in some ways so many years later? The main question you should be asking is why is a movement even necessary?

    Lastly, it's chauvinist. ;)
    Rose needs to Google "First Wave Feminism", "Second Wave Feminism" and "Third Wave Feminism". Oh, and please Google scholar "bell hooks". Read one of her articles...If need I can recommend something.

    Until then, that's the most I'll comment on this.
    01-26-2017 11:11 PM
  7. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    I did mention that some atheist are jerks.

    The marching wasn't just in the US and maybe you don't understand that context. There was every justification for the march. A misogynistic jerk is in office. He's going to deliver every Republican wet dream of wiping women's rights away. There's a very long history, more than I want to type really, but there's been a long running battle of women's rights to determine their reproductive rights and other rights and those of the far right wingers. It's been going for some time.

    Here's something to think about. When abortions are available without shame women get them done safely and with care. They don't just get them because. However, when that ability is removed the service goes underground. Women die and feel ashamed.

    There's more but that's a good starting point.
    While the termination of pregnancy procedure are medically different from cosmetic surgery, they share the common trait that when easy access is restricted, women who undergo these medical procedures in less than safe facilities do so at inherent risks.

    That small group of men in power for eons have always paid claim to the right to access and dictate what happens to women's bodies for too long. This is the reason why women's health and the issue ofaccess to reproductive health services - especially termination of pregnancy procedures - is such a flash point:

    A women knows her body best and yet she still isn't fully free to exercise her rights to choose what she does with her body and have those rights fully guaranteed and unquestionably respected? How the F does that make sense?

    Rose, you got a lot of reading to do in order to understand the privilege being a man allows in a patriarchal society...
    N_LaRUE, libra89 and Laura Knotek like this.
    01-26-2017 11:21 PM
  8. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Rose needs to Google "First Wave Feminism", "Second Wave Feminism" and "Third Wave Feminism". Oh, and please Google scholar "bell hooks". Read one of her articles...If need I can recommend something.

    Until then, that's the most I'll comment on this.
    I have to admit I didn't know Bell Hooks. She's written quite a bit.

    I'd also forgotten about the various waves and what they meant.
    libra89 and Laura Knotek like this.
    01-26-2017 11:31 PM
  9. worldspy99's Avatar
    A couple of more pics...


    01-26-2017 11:47 PM
  10. Rose640's Avatar
    I did mention that some atheist are jerks.

    The marching wasn't just in the US and maybe you don't understand that context. There was every justification for the march. A misogynistic jerk is in office. He's going to deliver every Republican wet dream of wiping women's rights away. There's a very long history, more than I want to type really, but there's been a long running battle of women's rights to determine their reproductive rights and other rights and those of the far right wingers. It's been going for some time.

    Here's something to think about. When abortions are available without shame women get them done safely and with care. They don't just get them because. However, when that ability is removed the service goes underground. Women die and feel ashamed.

    There's more but that's a good starting point.
    I do't know, the guy hasn't made any serious damage yet, except firing most of the US diplomats abroad.

    I think he should be given a chance, thrn judged. Again, I don't support him, but he is democratically elected president.
    01-27-2017 05:24 AM
  11. Rose640's Avatar
    Be very careful using statements like that. Yes science is science but it should never be treated like dogma. Science is evidence based and goes where the evidence points to. Doesn't mean that things can't be overturned. Every single science discovery and theory can be overruled if enough evidence is shown to disprove it. Most scientist would be more than overjoyed about the idea too because it makes things interesting.

    Most people don't get that.

    Science is constantly moving. As more information comes in it adds, subtracts and changes our views.
    Mayb I've expressed my self in a wrong way. I meant that if something is logical, provren, and has evidences to back it up, then no one cares if you believe it or not, cause it's a fact. Like the flat earth science and similar.

    Or when someone is rejecting statistics just because he "refuses to acknowledge them". I believe there's a video on youtube how someone from Trump's administration says he's got his own data and trust those only.
    01-27-2017 05:28 AM
  12. Rose640's Avatar
    If you're interested I can tell you all you want. :)
    Yeah, I can't really imagine a life without meat. I have a vegetarian cousin, in my eyes, I only see suffering when I have dinner with her :D.
    01-27-2017 05:30 AM
  13. Rose640's Avatar
    Yeah the Crunch is a chocolate bar with rice in it. The one underneath it is candy.
    Again, just like Dan's floating head, it's a bit awkward :D.
    libra89 likes this.
    01-27-2017 05:32 AM
  14. Rose640's Avatar
    And now I can't quote. This app is driving me crazy.

    MIA, I wasn't saying anything about the past. I was rather reffering to present, as in last couple of years. And also to Trump.

    I don't know which right it is that men have but women don't. I can't think of it. I live in a third world country, and am muslim, so someone prone to stereotypes would assume I'd be chauvinist (did I get it?) and what not. But I'm not, even though those post might actually lead to that very conclusion, I just like to debate. That's it.

    Anyway. I live in a 3rd world country, and I just can't see what is it that women are not allowed to do. They've got a right to vote, can have abortions, can file a divorce, are equally treated in a workplace and so on.

    I'd like to hear your opinion on what is it that men have taken from women?
    01-27-2017 05:42 AM
  15. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    I do't know, the guy hasn't made any serious damage yet, except firing most of the US diplomats abroad.

    I think he should be given a chance, thrn judged. Again, I don't support him, but he is democratically elected president.
    I don't think any politician should be 'given a chance'. They deserve all the condemnation if they've proven themselves, over and over again, that they are complete jerks. He's done nothing but that.

    I get he was democratically elected but in no way does that give him pass on criticism.

    Let's discuss what he's done so far.

    1. He's killed off the Affordable Care Act (what the Republicans called Obamacare to make it seem horrible) most USA citizens who were on ACA didn't realise it was the same thing.
    2. He's killed off 'free press' by selecting the reporters who will be allowed as the government press core.
    3. He's lied about the size of the crowds at his inauguration
    4. His press conference at the CIA was most likely prerecorded applause and laughter
    5. He's going after 'fake votes' even though he won the presidency because he can't handle Hillary had more votes than him
    6. He's removed all climate change information from the government website
    7. He's ordered all government scientist to not post any information on climate change on tweets or otherwise
    8. He's approved two highly controversial pipelines
    9. He's banned 7 countries from being allowed to visit the USA
    10. He's removed funding to any charity that may support reproductive rights
    11. He's building that stupid wall

    There's probably more but I have to ask, what good has he done so far?
    01-27-2017 05:48 AM
  16. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    And now I can't quote. This app is driving me crazy.

    MIA, I wasn't saying anything about the past. I was rather reffering to present, as in last couple of years. And also to Trump.

    I don't know which right it is that men have but women don't. I can't think of it. I live in a third world country, and am muslim, so someone prone to stereotypes would assume I'd be chauvinist (did I get it?) and what not. But I'm not, even though those post might actually lead to that very conclusion, I just like to debate. That's it.

    Anyway. I live in a 3rd world country, and I just can't see what is it that women are not allowed to do. They've got a right to vote, can have abortions, can file a divorce, are equally treated in a workplace and so on.

    I'd like to hear your opinion on what is it that men have taken from women?
    I'll let MIA answer his part.

    However, I'll point out some things. First you miss the point of 'hidden' discrimination. Yes it exists and not only for women.

    Sure there's lots of laws and so on against it but to say there isn't any is living in another reality.

    There's been many studies that have proven it too.

    As I'm not in the US I'm probably missing a lot of news in regards to Trump but I have friends there (not including ones on here) who are posting all kinds of things. It's not pretty.
    libra89, Rose640 and Laura Knotek like this.
    01-27-2017 06:44 AM
  17. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Yeah, I can't really imagine a life without meat. I have a vegetarian cousin, in my eyes, I only see suffering when I have dinner with her :D.
    Well going out to dinner is always an issue if there's little choice on offer.

    However, it's only 'suffering' if you're not creative and lazy.
    01-27-2017 07:03 AM
  18. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    I have to admit I didn't know Bell Hooks. She's written quite a bit.

    I'd also forgotten about the various waves and what they meant.
    She writes it as bell hooks in lower case on purpose. Profilic, thoughtful, amazing lady. She's got videos of her talks on YouTube. Her tact and eloquence is so awesome.

    Feminism has the same level of depth to it as any other large scale social terms...Just as how not all Brits, Blacks, Men, LGBT, women are the same, not all feminist are the same too.

    It's why I chose not to label people and be very careful in using those loaded social words.
    libra89, N_LaRUE and Laura Knotek like this.
    01-27-2017 07:09 AM
  19. libra89's Avatar
    I'll let MIA answer his part.

    However, I'll point out some things. First you miss the point of 'hidden' discrimination. Yes it exists and not only for women.

    Sure there's lots of laws and so on against it but to say there isn't any is living in another reality.

    There's been many studies that have proven it too.

    As I'm not in the US I'm probably missing a lot of news in regards to Trump but I have friends there (not including ones on here) who are posting all kinds of things. It's not pretty.
    You're spot on, and it's only been a week!
    N_LaRUE and Laura Knotek like this.
    01-27-2017 07:12 AM
  20. libra89's Avatar
    He also closed the White House phone line so that people can't call too, apparently. Which is crazy!
    N_LaRUE likes this.
    01-27-2017 07:18 AM
  21. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    She writes it as bell hooks in lower case on purpose. Profilic, thoughtful, amazing lady. She's got videos of her talks on YouTube. Her tact and eloquence is so awesome.

    Feminism has the same level of depth to it as any other large scale social terms...Just as how not all Brits, Blacks, Men, LGBT, women are the same, not all feminist are the same too.

    It's why I chose not to label people and be very careful in using those loaded social words.
    Not too sure about the Brits in that statement... :P

    I do understand that sentiment though. Everyone has their point of view and what their comfortable with.
    01-27-2017 07:19 AM
  22. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    And now I can't quote. This app is driving me crazy.

    MIA, I wasn't saying anything about the past. I was rather reffering to present, as in last couple of years. And also to Trump.

    I don't know which right it is that men have but women don't. I can't think of it. I live in a third world country, and am muslim, so someone prone to stereotypes would assume I'd be chauvinist (did I get it?) and what not. But I'm not, even though those post might actually lead to that very conclusion, I just like to debate. That's it.

    Anyway. I live in a 3rd world country, and I just can't see what is it that women are not allowed to do. They've got a right to vote, can have abortions, can file a divorce, are equally treated in a workplace and so on.

    I'd like to hear your opinion on what is it that men have taken from women?
    Are women getting paid equally dollar for dollar in your country? Because here in the US, they don't. Women get paid on average around $0.75 for every $1 a man makes. Big difference. And they don't have paid maternity leave here.

    Look are careers such as engineering. Look at high ranking politicians, business owners. What gender is that predominantly?

    Look at your own culture. Think about the values and expectations placed on men and women.

    If I get around to it I'll post some reading material here this weekend.
    01-27-2017 07:29 AM
  23. mc_razza's Avatar
    And now for something different:

    I've just discovered that Google Street View has arrived in one of my favourite shopping malls in Manila - Glorietta 4. It must have gone live in the past week. Looks like I'll be window shopping for the next couple of hours instead of hitting the sack. lol This exploring will tie me over a little longer until the next time I travel to the Philippines. It's sadly been too long between jaunts. :(

    -----------------------------------------

    Back to politics. ;)
    01-27-2017 07:35 AM
  24. Rose640's Avatar
    I don't think any politician should be 'given a chance'. They deserve all the condemnation if they've proven themselves, over and over again, that they are complete jerks. He's done nothing but that.

    I get he was democratically elected but in no way does that give him pass on criticism.

    Let's discuss what he's done so far.

    1. He's killed off the Affordable Care Act (what the Republicans called Obamacare to make it seem horrible) most USA citizens who were on ACA didn't realise it was the same thing.
    2. He's killed off 'free press' by selecting the reporters who will be allowed as the government press core.
    3. He's lied about the size of the crowds at his inauguration
    4. His press conference at the CIA was most likely prerecorded applause and laughter
    5. He's going after 'fake votes' even though he won the presidency because he can't handle Hillary had more votes than him
    6. He's removed all climate change information from the government website
    7. He's ordered all government scientist to not post any information on climate change on tweets or otherwise
    8. He's approved two highly controversial pipelines
    9. He's banned 7 countries from being allowed to visit the USA
    10. He's removed funding to any charity that may support reproductive rights
    11. He's building that stupid wall

    There's probably more but I have to ask, what good has he done so far?
    1. As far as I know it hasn't been completely removed, just partially.
    2.OK I guess
    3.That's irrelevant to anything, at least to me
    4.That's shady, we can't know that
    5. Again, standard politician's bull****
    6. That's definitely wrong, I agree
    7. Source?
    8. Don't know thing about that, so I'lltrust you on that one.
    9. Really? Which ones? This th e first time I'm reading about this
    10. Again, I agree, wrong thing to do.
    11. Highly unlikely to happen.
    01-27-2017 09:51 AM
  25. Rose640's Avatar
    Oh and what good, wasn't leaving that pack of transatlantic something a good thing? You know what I'm talking about. Pretty much everyone was criticising Obama for it.
    01-27-2017 09:53 AM
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