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  1. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    What's odd is that I would have thought the winter months (being Northern biased here) would have been more active, yet he we are and it appears people came out of their slumber or something... Or is that school? ;)
    It's the first day of summer and the second day of Brexit negotiations...
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    06-19-2017 11:40 PM
  2. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    It's the first day of summer and the second day of Brexit negotiations...
    I personally can care less about Brexit. Let the UK shoot itself in the foot, head, which ever visual you want...

    It's another scorcher here today. Hot and humid. Just hoping that the partying slows down a touch a couple of houses down but I'm not holding my breath.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    06-20-2017 01:35 AM
  3. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    There are things I'd definitely like to change, but as I said, not so easy. Would be nice if I could.
    There are some things we obviously can't change but far as I'm concerned, everything else is flexible, to some extent.
    libra89, Laura Knotek and Rose640 like this.
    06-20-2017 01:39 AM
  4. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Don't beat yourself up over the crazy things from the past 30-40 years. You didn't cause it, you didn't ask to a part of it so why should you be the one to suffer from it?
    Not to speak for Laura or anyone else for that matter.

    Though your sentiment is nice, that's not what depression is. In reality, there's still lots of research to be done into it. It's a very complex condition since it involves our most important organ, our brain.

    Currently we use drugs to help. There's some scepticism of whether these actually work or are good. At this stage, the consensus is that it's 'better than nothing' as they are shown to help. The bad part of these drugs tend to be the side effects.

    Unfortunately these drugs are being dished out far too easily (most professionals agree with this) and I highly disagree with that. Everyone has bad times, that's part of life, using drugs doesn't solve the problem.

    For some people however, these drugs can be a life saver and life changer. I don't believe though that they should be a long term solution and counselling should be part of the package.

    Seeking help is usually the first step to recovery. Sometimes even realising you need help is the hard part.

    Depression is a mental condition that can have serious consequences which can lead to physical harm if not treated. It's more than just about the past, the present or the future. It's a combination of things that we simply don't understand. As we simply don't know why someone feels like they do. What causes it and what to do exactly to fix it. That's the simple reality. We have 'ideas' that work but it's not perfect. Each person's situation and condition is unique. There is no simple solution.

    That's where we are with mental health. We're still at early stages because it's one of those things that doesn't get discussed enough. That's not to say it's all bad, it's actually good that we have solutions that work. Just need to be better.
    Last edited by N_LaRUE; 06-20-2017 at 04:10 AM.
    06-20-2017 03:30 AM
  5. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    Not to speak for Laura or anyone else for that matter.

    Though your sentiment is nice, that's not what depression is. In reality, there's still lots of research to be done into it. It's a very complex condition since it involves our most important organ, our brain.

    Currently we use drugs to help. There's some scepticism of whether these actually work or are good. At this stage, the consensus is that it's 'better than nothing' as they are shown to help. The bad part of these drugs tend to be the side effects.

    Unfortunately these drugs are being dished out far too easily (most professionals agree with this) and I highly disagree with that. Everyone has bad times, that's part of life, using drugs doesn't solve the problem.

    For some people however, these drugs can be a life saver and life changer. I don't believe though that they should be a long term solution and counselling should be part of the package.

    Seeking help is usually the first step to recovery. Sometimes even realising you need help is the hard part.

    Depression is a mental condition that can have serious consequences which can lead to physical harm if not treated. It's more than just about the past, the present or the future. It's a combination of things that we simply don't understand. As we simply don't know why someone feels like they do. What causes it and what to do exactly to fix it. That's the simple reality. We have 'ideas' that work but it's not perfect. Each person's situation and condition is unique. There is no simple solution.

    That's where we are with mental health. We're still at early stages because it's one of those things that doesn't get discussed enough. That's not to say it's all bad, it's actually good that we have solutions that work. Just need to be better.
    To speak from a service provider's perspective, it is not a straightforward process as someone walks in, pours their heart to you for 45 minutes, sees a psychiatrist to gets a script and goes along their merry way.

    It is a very individualized process. Ideally, what is helpful is a mixture of psychotherapy aimed at improving coping skills and management strategies and pharmacology (if determined to be appropriate). Not everyone who experiences depression requires pharmacological interventions. The true focus should be a reduction in the amount of pharmacology (if determined to be appropriate) that the individual may need and a strengthening of the psychoeducational tools above. Because the process is so individualized and there are flaws within mental health systems, the sort of true fine tuning each individual may receive may not be as close to the ideal as needed. This isn't to say that some individuals receiving mental health services don't get this sort of delicate fine tuning, but the reality of life is that not everyone may be getting it in the way that reflects their personal goals and position in the process.

    This not only applies for depression, but for other mental health issues as well. We as a contemporary society are still not in a place on a macro (societal) level where we can make it safe to acknowledge the importance of the complexities of mental health.
    N_LaRUE, libra89 and Laura Knotek like this.
    06-20-2017 07:28 AM
  6. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    To speak from a service provider's perspective, it is not a straightforward process as someone walks in, pours their heart to you for 45 minutes, sees a psychiatrist to gets a script and goes along their merry way.
    I'm not sure if the US is different but in Canada, Australia and even here in the UK, the GP has the ability to give out scripts for antidepressants.

    A patient can literally go in, see the doctor and walk out with a script. They may get a referral to a psychologist or psychiatrist if they're lucky. In the case of Canada or Australia... if they can afford it, as it's not covered by health care, at least when I was there.

    All mental health issues are individual and should be treated as such. Unfortunately the 'costs' of dealing with it are high which is where the system typically falls apart. Why it's overly reliant on medicine and why some people don't seek counselling. Aside from the taboo of counselling that still exists.

    Aside from my wife being a highly trained counsellor and has dealt with some extreme situations. I am familiar with the counselling process from past experiences, which were not mine but closely associated to me. It was one of those experiences that left me feeling less than enthused about about psychiatrists at the time but I know it wasn't the guy's fault.
    Last edited by N_LaRUE; 06-20-2017 at 08:58 AM.
    06-20-2017 07:47 AM
  7. meattray's Avatar
    You are correct. I would say in likely 95% of the cases in Canada a GP is the one prescribing the Rx. There's not a lot of access to mental health services and as you stated aren't completely affordable for all.
    N_LaRUE, libra89 and Laura Knotek like this.
    06-20-2017 08:07 AM
  8. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    I'm not sure if the US is different but in Canada, Australia and even here in the UK, the GP has the ability to give out scripts for antidepressants.

    A patient can literally go in, see the doctor and walk out with a script. They may get a referral to a psychologist or psychiatrist if they're lucky. In the case or Canada or Australia... if they can afford it, as it's not covered by health care, at least when I was there.

    All mental health issues are individual and should be treated as such. Unfortunately the 'costs' of dealing with it are high which is where the system typically falls apart. Why it's overly reliant on medicine and why some people don't seek counselling. Aside from the taboo of counselling that still exists.

    Aside from my wife being a highly trained counsellor and has dealt with some extreme situations. I am familiar with the counselling process from past experiences, which were not mine but closely associated to me. It was one of those experiences that left me feeling less than enthused about about psychiatrists at the time but I know it wasn't the guy's fault.
    It is vastly different here in the US. A MD/GP has discretionary ability to refill existing ongoing scripts that have been written by someone who was recently seen by a psychiatrist. Substances with highly addictive (and thus strong black market value) potential like Xanax a MD/GP cannot prescribe without special licensure that's heavy regulated. Does that get abused? Of course, because nefarious individuals inhabit all professions and nefarious clients exist. This is why some MD/GP will choose not to refill scripts for people between psychiatrists. That's a massive issue for service providers because what's often done here is a psychiatric assessment before issuing of medication - there's a backlog (aka wait time) for this. While making it discretionary for MD/GP to do so helps to protect the service providers from the few nefarious individuals as service seekers, it screws up others. So when you have those in-between clients where medication access is an issue as without it symptoms return very quickly, service providers have get down and dirty and problem solve these issues fast.

    Psychiatrists here have the ability to choose whether they want to do full service (counseling + medication management) or to focus on medication management on a team where the individual counseling is done by counselors/psychologists/social workers. There's more money to be made in straight mediation management and some choose that, but for others it's a practical choice where you have a small team of service providers serving a few communities where it is more practical for the psychiatrist to outsource much of the counseling services because of the sheer volume of individuals seeking services. Even though some psychiatrists who do straight mediation management may literally ask a few questions and write the scirpt, others may do a small bit of additional supportive therapy.

    This discussion can get complicated and tangental really quick talking about roles and access and how the system is structured, when trauma occurs from receiving mental health services, etc. Like anything involving humans, it is multilayered and not easily solvable.
    libra89, N_LaRUE and Laura Knotek like this.
    06-20-2017 08:07 AM
  9. meattray's Avatar
    I've been trying to find the KEYone in a store somewhere to give it a whirl as I had planned on purchasing it as my next phone. However, with all of these quality control issues have been popping up it has me leaning towards the S8 or the S8+. Trying to figure out if there's really a substantial battery gain with the S8+ or not. Haven't really found anything definitive on that yet in real life use.
    06-20-2017 08:10 AM
  10. libra89's Avatar
    To speak from a service provider's perspective, it is not a straightforward process as someone walks in, pours their heart to you for 45 minutes, sees a psychiatrist to gets a script and goes along their merry way.

    It is a very individualized process. Ideally, what is helpful is a mixture of psychotherapy aimed at improving coping skills and management strategies and pharmacology (if determined to be appropriate). Not everyone who experiences depression requires pharmacological interventions. The true focus should be a reduction in the amount of pharmacology (if determined to be appropriate) that the individual may need and a strengthening of the psychoeducational tools above. Because the process is so individualized and there are flaws within mental health systems, the sort of true fine tuning each individual may receive may not be as close to the ideal as needed. This isn't to say that some individuals receiving mental health services don't get this sort of delicate fine tuning, but the reality of life is that not everyone may be getting it in the way that reflects their personal goals and position in the process.

    This not only applies for depression, but for other mental health issues as well. We as a contemporary society are still not in a place on a macro (societal) level where we can make it safe to acknowledge the importance of the complexities of mental health.
    I can get what you are saying and I don't disagree in the least. I'm not really sure the kind that I had, but I remember opting out of meds but to be fair, I think it was situational for me. I can't imagine how it is/was like to have it more chronic.
    N_LaRUE likes this.
    06-20-2017 08:11 AM
  11. libra89's Avatar
    I've been trying to find the KEYone in a store somewhere to give it a whirl as I had planned on purchasing it as my next phone. However, with all of these quality control issues have been popping up it has me leaning towards the S8 or the S8+. Trying to figure out if there's really a substantial battery gain with the S8+ or not. Haven't really found anything definitive on that yet in real life use.
    Aw I'm sorry. I have heard that the battery life between the + and regular S8 isn't so different apparently.
    06-20-2017 08:13 AM
  12. meattray's Avatar
    Aw I'm sorry. I have heard that the battery life between the + and regular S8 isn't so different apparently.
    Yeah that's kind of what I've noticed from a few of the reviews. Doesn't really seem like a big difference and I think I'd prefer the smaller device.
    libra89 and fatclue_98 like this.
    06-20-2017 08:14 AM
  13. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    I've been trying to find the KEYone in a store somewhere to give it a whirl as I had planned on purchasing it as my next phone. However, with all of these quality control issues have been popping up it has me leaning towards the S8 or the S8+. Trying to figure out if there's really a substantial battery gain with the S8+ or not. Haven't really found anything definitive on that yet in real life use.
    I saw the quality control issues with the screen. I'm watching it closely. I may pass by a Sprint store to look at both the U 11 and Key One.
    libra89 likes this.
    06-20-2017 08:14 AM
  14. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    This discussion can get complicated and tangental really quick talking about roles and access and how the system is structured, when trauma occurs from receiving mental health services, etc. Like anything involving humans, it is multilayered and not easily solvable.
    Oh I agree. I wasn't trying to make a big conversation out of it. Just trying to clarify what depression was and generally how it's handled. Also in general, how it can be handled poorly, in some circumstances.

    That was all. A full discussion on how to fix the system... that would take pages.
    06-20-2017 08:18 AM
  15. meattray's Avatar
    I saw the quality control issues with the screen. I'm watching it closely. I may pass by a Sprint store to look at both the U 11 and Key One.
    Yeah it's strange. I haven't been able to find any carrier with one in store around here. They say they can order one in for me but nobody has one just to look at.
    libra89 likes this.
    06-20-2017 08:21 AM
  16. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    Oh I agree. I wasn't trying to make a big conversation out of it. Just trying to clarify what depression was and generally how it's handled. Also in general, how it can be handled poorly, in some circumstances.

    That was all. A full discussion on how to fix the system... that would take pages.
    As we both know (and I'll include 99 on this too), there are many scholary articles on this alone and this is a part of the ongoing debates in the field of social work (and likely the disciplines of medicine, psychology and psychiatry).

    Still, at least it was nice to talk systems for the audience here briefly. Taking care of humans isn't easy. Mental health services isn't for everybody, but not everyone who uses mental health services is accessing and receiving the same set of services...because each individual has specialized needs.
    N_LaRUE, libra89 and Laura Knotek like this.
    06-20-2017 08:25 AM
  17. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    Yeah it's strange. I haven't been able to find any carrier with one in store around here. They say they can order one in for me but nobody has one just to look at.
    I may go and try to look at one in a few while running some errands.
    N_LaRUE and libra89 like this.
    06-20-2017 08:27 AM
  18. worldspy99's Avatar
    Yeah that's kind of what I've noticed from a few of the reviews. Doesn't really seem like a big difference and I think I'd prefer the smaller device.
    I have the S8 and the battery life is just fine.
    libra89 likes this.
    06-20-2017 08:30 AM
  19. libra89's Avatar
    I feel so confused.

    Got an email from Motorola yesterday night saying that the G5 Plus has been shipped and when I check the order status this morning, it says that it has been delivered this morning (and it really has!). Wow...

    I'm starting to wonder if this is too much phone for my uncle's sister but I guess I will find out.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    06-20-2017 08:48 AM
  20. meattray's Avatar
    I feel so confused.

    Got an email from Motorola yesterday night saying that the G5 Plus has been shipped and when I check the order status this morning, it says that it has been delivered this morning (and it really has!). Wow...

    I'm starting to wonder if this is too much phone for my uncle's sister but I guess I will find out.
    Wow! That's pretty amazing. Be interested to hear your thoughts.
    libra89 likes this.
    06-20-2017 08:51 AM
  21. meattray's Avatar
    I may go and try to look at one in a few while running some errands.
    Let me know what you think if you get the change.
    06-20-2017 08:51 AM
  22. libra89's Avatar
    Wow! That's pretty amazing. Be interested to hear your thoughts.
    Thanks, I will share them! I don't think I will use it as a phone but I just might try that anyway. I have been curious about it since I have heard so many good things. My uncle's sister needing a phone was the perfect excuse for me to try it out but I will give it to him to take back with him when I'm done.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    06-20-2017 09:06 AM
  23. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Yeah that's kind of what I've noticed from a few of the reviews. Doesn't really seem like a big difference and I think I'd prefer the smaller device.
    I can tell you from having the S8+ for 2 weeks that the battery life is sick. My phone is off the charger at 5:30AM and from there it's a torture session with 30-40 calls, close to 100 emails and a ton of SOT viewing docs. I get home around 7 in the evening and it would still be around 50% on the worst days. The 6S+ it replaced would be gasping for breath in the 15-20% range and I thought it was good.
    libra89 and Laura Knotek like this.
    06-20-2017 09:20 AM
  24. Mohamed Ashid's Avatar
    Anyone tried out the HTC u11? Battery life has always been a problem with HTC :/
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    06-20-2017 09:34 AM
  25. Mohamed Ashid's Avatar
    Oh my god

    135k
    N_LaRUE likes this.
    06-20-2017 09:35 AM
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