WC 1M Post Challenge - You Ready?!

MSFTisMIA

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Re: WC 150K Post Challenge - You Ready?!

Rabbit = good
Lemon = bad....sour taste in mouth....

Agreed. I'm pulling for HTC. At least if they close shop they lasted longer than Nokia did and didn't need somebody to pump money into them to pseudo keep them afloat.

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MSFTisMIA

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I'd to apologize to the mods and regulars in advance...I'm in one of these kinda moods today:

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N_LaRUE

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Re: WC 150K Post Challenge - You Ready?!

Lumia was not dead the minute MS brought Nokia's device division. Had they left Lumia with Nokia, we would have seen what likely happens now...an Android OEM splitting time/attention between two OS. Where Microsoft went wrong was simply by taking forever to do anything with the division and when they did it was half-hearted.

As an OEM, I would be wise to do what I needed to do for my business...However, I'd also realize that I am struggling with Android. Given attention and time and marketing to my phones I've created for another OS may help diversify my portfolio. Putting all their eggs in one basket with no plan B, is precisely why HTC is in the state it is in. It had a lead in Windows mobile, Windows Phone 7 and early WP 8...it quickly was overshadowed by Nokia. On the Android side of things, HTC basically pulled a Microsoft and rested on their laurels and were quickly replaced by Samsung, LG and Motorola.

It's why Samsung tried to go with their OWN os because they realize while Android may be profitable they also are being controlled by google. Why do you think Cyanogen is trying to take Android away from Google. These OEMs need a Plan B, especially when they cant compete against Samsung as it is.

A smart OEM would realize that all eggs in one basket can spell trouble when you don't have a fallback plan to fall on.

The nokia Model is precisely what the Android model is. flooding the market with a ton of hardware which causes the marketshare to skyrocket and more devices sold. It's precisely how android got popular. It's also why Windows Phone's highest marketshare and devices sold happened because there were more options for people to choose. We are down to four models and they are scattered around and far less embraced than before by carriers/retailers thus marketshare has fallen.

Was it sustainable? No. But the key difference is, it did at least give the product some momentum vs what Microsoft has done since buying Nokia. Marketshare would not have dropped as bad as it had, had there been something released between the Icon/930 and the 950s....a simple refresh of the 930/1520 could have helped. Pushing the 640 even harder...Pricing the 830 better out the gate.

Instead little choice between then caused the marketshare to drop...and if it is true we don't get anything except a 650 this year, marketshare will drop because there is nothing for anyone to buy as many people are not going to want to buy last year's flagship.

OEMs don't care because Marketshare is so low? I got that.
But releasing a phone and abandoning your customers is exactly THEIR FAULT. That has nothing to do with a Nokia deal/MS deal. It has nothing to do with Lumias being the dominant force. It has to do with the fact these OEMs abandon their user and that is why users are sticking with/too Lumia.

The only phone I have moderately heard any excitement over is the HP phone. Even the Jade Primo was hot for all of a day and it became irrelevant. Most people will likely continue buying Lumias until OEMs manage to gain their trust...and someone is going to have to take the risk first.

As far as OEM customization, the Smartest thing Microsoft ever did was to disallow that from happening. I would rather they had more control over the hardware still as I hate the fact we get these regurgitated Android redesigns but THANK GOD they do not allow OEMs to customize anything on the OS software.

We do not need a bunch of launchers and home screens like android. Especially since many OEMs are moving away from heavy UI.

What Microsoft is encouraging and I support is allowing them to differentiate on hardware.
The day Microsoft allows OEMs to customize the platform, might be the day I strongly consider an iPhone.

Microsoft needs to stop trying to chase the Android methodology and take after apple...Android on its own sucks outside of Galaxy and the only reason Galaxy is popular is not because of Android, is because Samsung literally copies whatever apple does.

The day Microsoft finds its inner apple is the day Windows 10 mobile truly will actually have true success, I do believe.

I just don't have the time to reply to all that. Sigh.

Look, Lumia was dead when MS bought Nokia because MS was not going to keep the Lumia name. It's really that simple. They were going to kill the Lumia name off rather quickly. I estimated about 2 years. I wasn't far off.

Market share is the biggest problem MS has. Add that to lack of supported apps and you can see why any OEM would hesitate. I have little doubt when MS approached OEMs they told them 'things would get better' but they haven't. Why spend money on supporting an dead product? Also, Samsung as we know is one of the worst for killing off any product, including Android phones, which is why I don't buy them. People buy Samsung for the name, nothing more.

You're also correct any smart business would have a plan B but I sure as hell would put any money into W10M at this stage if I was an OEM. There's simply nothing there for any OEM to work with. All the articles saying W10M is dead doesn't help either and MS using very loose language at their BUILD conference didn't help either.

You cannot build a mobile market share based on PC users. No OEM is going to believe your point until it's proven.

MS's first approach was to take after Apple. WP8 was direct competition to Apple, not Android. That didn't work. Which is why they're trying to be more flexible now. When most people think of a 'Windows Phone or Mobile' they want 'Windows' openness, not a locked down phone which you can barely do anything with. That was the big mistake by MS that Nokia pushed to change. It was Nokia who too WP to different levels NOT MS. If it wasn't for Nokia, MS would only release high end phones and try to be Apple because that's what they want. That's not going to happen because nobody who wants Windows wants to be anything like Apple. People choose Windows for a reason.

If Nokia would have approached things differently they'd still be in business. Unfortunately flooding a market with different variants doesn't work and it stopped working for Android now too. Even Samsung has stopped that.

As for people going after Google, that's no surprise really. You hear a lot about Samsung's OS, not that it's popular anywhere... as for Cyrogen, it's still more or less Android so what's your point? MS bought that, I wonder how long it will last...

OEMs want to provide a user experience, even though you might not like it, obviously, it's what OEMs want. They want some type of ownership to their products aside from the phone. It's not that illogical really when you think of it.

Lastly, in what way is a Samsung S7 Edge anything like an Apple product? Who's copying who? The biggest copier as we all know is Apple.
 

sahib lopez

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Re: WC 150K Post Challenge - You Ready?!

I am curious as to how much the" consumer priced" surface phone will be. If I had to guess it will be like the surface 3 is to the surface pro line. If so I'd be okay with that
 

N_LaRUE

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Re: WC 150K Post Challenge - You Ready?!

Success? What sense of success has MSFT had? Especially since they haven't had a clear direction from as far back as Windows Mobile 2003SE?

What success did Nokia have? Nokia was brought in to build a brand and that's what they did with the entire Lumia line. Most successful businesses are still in business and are making profits. Nokia as a smartphone OEM is currently doing neither. How was that successful? So they unified the 10 people who bought Windows Phone...so what? Where is the increased market share? Where are the other indicators that the industry is taking notice? Where are the big app makers lining up and found the block to support Windows 10 en masse?

Do you not see that at the end, all Nokia did was swap Symbian for WP but still keep those bad habits of overextending itself by having a phone in literally every price point with little differentiation?

All OEMs on WP screwed their customers. But MSFT has set the hardware requirements since WP7 and has screwed people too.

It's too early in the morning for this flogging a dead horse discussion. Sounds like one of those weekly meetings I have to suffer through at work.

G4 Approved

You've managed to say things more succinctly than I managed. Thanks. I doubt our local ****** will get it though.
 

N_LaRUE

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Re: WC 150K Post Challenge - You Ready?!

I am curious as to how much the" consumer priced" surface phone will be. If I had to guess it will be like the surface 3 is to the surface pro line. If so I'd be okay with that

Taking a stab, I'd say the 'consumer' phone will be the mid point phone with the business being the lower tier as they want businesses to buy the phones. Of course it all depends what will come on them. If they're pushing Continuum then they'll all be pricey regardless.
 
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Re: WC 150K Post Challenge - You Ready?!

Success? What sense of success has MSFT had? Especially since they haven't had a clear direction from as far back as Windows Mobile 2003SE?

What success did Nokia have? Nokia was brought in to build a brand and that's what they did with the entire Lumia line. Most successful businesses are still in business and are making profits. Nokia as a smartphone OEM is currently doing neither. How was that successful? So they unified the 10 people who bought Windows Phone...so what? Where is the increased market share? Where are the other indicators that the industry is taking notice? Where are the big app makers lining up and found the block to support Windows 10 en masse?

Do you not see that at the end, all Nokia did was swap Symbian for WP but still keep those bad habits of overextending itself by having a phone in literally every price point with little differentiation?

All OEMs on WP screwed their customers. But MSFT has set the hardware requirements since WP7 and has screwed people too.

It's too early in the morning for this flogging a dead horse discussion. Sounds like one of those weekly meetings I have to suffer through at work.

G4 Approved
You're absolutely right. It is far too early to debate with Android fans, who seem to know better than us windows phone users, on a windows centric fansite lmao
 
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Re: WC 150K Post Challenge - You Ready?!

You've managed to say things more succinctly than I managed. Thanks. I doubt our local ****** will get it though.

I'm a ****** because I don't agree with your logic lmao. I guess if I start praising android and bashing windows and Lumia, I'll be apart of the cool kids club lmfao
 

N_LaRUE

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Re: WC 150K Post Challenge - You Ready?!

I'm a ****** because I don't agree with your logic lmao. I guess if I start praising android and bashing windows and Lumia, I'll be apart of the cool kids club lmfao

At what point in my conversation did I ever bash Lumia or W10M? I am critical but I don't bash or hate. Also all OS have issues. Every one of them including iOS.

You've proven yourself to be a ****** but doing the typical bashing of the competition as you put it.

I'm a tech fan. Period. I also have quite a few years on you in regards to being numb to the corporation BS that is dispelled by all companies. I love tech, I do not love companies or products.
 
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Re: WC 150K Post Challenge - You Ready?!

I just don't have the time to reply to all that. Sigh.

Look, Lumia was dead when MS bought Nokia because MS was not going to keep the Lumia name. It's really that simple. They were going to kill the Lumia name off rather quickly. I estimated about 2 years. I wasn't far off.

Market share is the biggest problem MS has. Add that to lack of supported apps and you can see why any OEM would hesitate. I have little doubt when MS approached OEMs they told them 'things would get better' but they haven't. Why spend money on supporting an dead product? Also, Samsung as we know is one of the worst for killing off any product, including Android phones, which is why I don't buy them. People buy Samsung for the name, nothing more.

You're also correct any smart business would have a plan B but I sure as hell would put any money into W10M at this stage if I was an OEM. There's simply nothing there for any OEM to work with. All the articles saying W10M is dead doesn't help either and MS using very loose language at their BUILD conference didn't help either.

You cannot build a mobile market share based on PC users. No OEM is going to believe your point until it's proven.

MS's first approach was to take after Apple. WP8 was direct competition to Apple, not Android. That didn't work. Which is why they're trying to be more flexible now. When most people think of a 'Windows Phone or Mobile' they want 'Windows' openness, not a locked down phone which you can barely do anything with. That was the big mistake by MS that Nokia pushed to change. It was Nokia who too WP to different levels NOT MS. If it wasn't for Nokia, MS would only release high end phones and try to be Apple because that's what they want. That's not going to happen because nobody who wants Windows wants to be anything like Apple. People choose Windows for a reason.

If Nokia would have approached things differently they'd still be in business. Unfortunately flooding a market with different variants doesn't work and it stopped working for Android now too. Even Samsung has stopped that.

As for people going after Google, that's no surprise really. You hear a lot about Samsung's OS, not that it's popular anywhere... as for Cyrogen, it's still more or less Android so what's your point? MS bought that, I wonder how long it will last...

OEMs want to provide a user experience, even though you might not like it, obviously, it's what OEMs want. They want some type of ownership to their products aside from the phone. It's not that illogical really when you think of it.

Lastly, in what way is a Samsung S7 Edge anything like an Apple product? Who's copying who? The biggest copier as we all know is Apple.
Samsung entire start with galaxy is largely based off iOS and imitating apple. That's kind of the reason they had the beef they had with apple to begin.

Of course an s7 edge isn't like an apple product because7 generations later, Samsung is capable of making a product that doesn't feel like a cheap Android imitation of apple like the early galaxy models.

Oems want to pprovide user experience? Maybe in 2012. I dont even use android regularly and i know many oems are moving towards a more stock ui. Because their users are demanding less of the heavy ui.
 
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At what point in my conversation did I ever bash Lumia or W10M? I am critical but I don't bash or hate. Also all OS have issues. Every one of them including iOS.

You've proven yourself to be a ****** but doing the typical bashing of the competition as you put it.

I'm a tech fan. Period. I also have quite a few years on you in regards to being numb to the corporation BS that is dispelled by all companies. I love tech, I do not love companies or products.

I never said you did. I said I am sure it would be fine if I joined in and started bashing the is and product since that's the mentality here these days.

Furthermore I am not a ****** because I bash the product. I am a consumer with experience and preference for various products.
 

N_LaRUE

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Re: WC 150K Post Challenge - You Ready?!

Samsung entire start with galaxy is largely based off iOS and imitating apple. That's kind of the reason they had the beef they had with apple to begin.

Of course an s7 edge isn't like an apple product because7 generations later, Samsung is capable of making a product that doesn't feel like a cheap Android imitation of apple like the early galaxy models.

Oems want to pprovide user experience? Maybe in 2012. I dont even use android regularly and i know many oems are moving towards a more stock ui. Because their users are demanding less of the heavy ui.

Yes, Samsung started out with copying a bit. So did Apple, so did MS. So did everyone else. That's the reality of the world. Imitators are a reality. You can decide if it's a compliment or not.

As for your lack of information regarding UI, you obviously are not paying attention, but that's to be expected since you don't follow Android news.
 

N_LaRUE

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Re: WC 150K Post Challenge - You Ready?!

I never said you did. I said I am sure it would be fine if I joined in and started bashing the is and product since that's the mentality here these days.

Furthermore I am not a ****** because I bash the product. I am a consumer with experience and preference for various products.

Didn't you just quote me and mention Lumia bashing? In what way was I supposed to take that?

It's quite obvious your a ****** and yes bashing the competition is the epitome of fanboyism. Deal with it. If you want to consider it something else that's your perception, not anyone else's.
 

MSFTisMIA

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You've managed to say things more succinctly than I managed. Thanks. I doubt our local ****** will get it though.

You're welcome. Being in the mood I am today (see my image post above), I wasn't about to do no extra reading.

He's been on that One Note so the past few years. I expect no changes.

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N_LaRUE

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Re: WC 150K Post Challenge - You Ready?!

You're welcome. Been in the mood I am today (see my image post above), I wasn't about to do no extra reading.

He's been on that One Note so the past few years. I expect no changes.

G4 Approved

They haven't quite figured out this is an off topic, off topic thread. We talk about all kinds of things on here. No one hates WP. If you want praise WP go read Dan's articles and write something there.
 

MSFTisMIA

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Re: WC 150K Post Challenge - You Ready?!

You're absolutely right. It is far too early to debate with Android fans, who seem to know better than us windows phone users, on a windows centric fansite lmao

Dude,

I'm a platform agnostic.

Not an Android fan. Not an iOS fan. Not a Windows fan. Get that correct. Been around since 2002. Used more OSes and more phones than you've expressed coherent, balanced thoughts on Windows Phone in the past few years.

Platform agnostic. Put down your roses colored glasses, get off my lap and Label it correctly.

Let's sum up your commentary the following way:

"If you throw a stone in a pig sty, the pig that squeals is the one the stone hit."

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worldspy99

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Re: WC 150K Post Challenge - You Ready?!

Sigh...what a morning! Too tired after reading all the back and forth...can't we all just get along...
 

MSFTisMIA

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Re: WC 150K Post Challenge - You Ready?!

You know, this must be said since I'm in a non PC mood:

Having been a regular on this particular thread for over 85% of its existence, I miss the days when we had more balanced, intellectually stimulating conversation.

Now this feels like I'm in a kiddie line with my nephew waiting for him to get a turn at the bounceabout and there's no movement in the line because there's some 35 y.o. who lives with his parents is in the bounceabout and kicking the kids out because he needs "more space to flop around".

G4 Approved
 
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Re: WC 150K Post Challenge - You Ready?!

They haven't quite figured out this is an off topic, off topic thread. We talk about all kinds of things on here. No one hates WP. If you want praise WP go read Dan's articles and write something there.
No one hates Windows Phone?
HA....
Yes, Samsung started out with copying a bit. So did Apple, so did MS. So did everyone else. That's the reality of the world. Imitators are a reality. You can decide if it's a compliment or not.

As for your lack of information regarding UI, you obviously are not paying attention, but that's to be expected since you don't follow Android news.

Really? Because copying here and there and what Samsung did early on are two entirely different things.

I don't have a lack of information. For someone so pro-android, i'd expect you to be far more knowledgeable about the OS than you appear to be.

When is the last time you've seen any of Moto's devices running Motoblur?

Or a Sony Xperia running UX?

While these manufacturers have not fully embraced stock like a Nexus, these OEMs have gradually been distancing themselves from the launchers they originally launched with. Why? Because they have

A. realized their Users have not been happy with the heavy UIs.
(Even Sense and touchwiz have went on a diet and taken on a more Stock like experience compared to their earlier iterations)

B. No longer need to differentiate on gimmicky User Interfaces. They are now competing on hardware level based on design, camera and actual features.

What is hilarious is the fact of people using the term ****** in a derogatory way. It's quite ironic.
I too am a fan of technology and I love all tech...However, me 'bashing' as you label it is no different from you or anyone else who 'bash' Windows 10 mobile. Keep in mind, I do use Android (Unfortunately...It's kind of skickening) partially so I do have a right, experience, and knowledge to complain about a product I use.

Or is it only acceptable if someone is constantly listing the negatives of Windows 10 mobile and praising Android for being the best thing ever and the only OS anyone should ever consider? /s
 

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