10-23-2013 06:48 PM
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  1. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Now (after back tracking to several of your prior posts) I can see that when you say "state-first" you mean a confederacy in the strictest sense. While I still don't think confederacies are as "theoretical" as communism, strict confederacies have their issues, some of which you've noted.

    HOWEVER, you seem to have led to the whole "confederacy" discussion based on the inclination that the Republicans/Tea Party want a confederacy. Maybe some extremist have stated such a desire, but they are most certainly in the minority. If you look at our nations history, our central or federal government has grown exponentially in the past century. From Teddy Roosevelt's progressive movement, and FDR's New Deal, the federal government has extended itself greatly (good and bad).

    Lately, the failures, corruption, and overall mess of the Federal government has reached a point where people are truly beginning to distrust it at a fundamental level. Hence the interest in refocusing on States rights. NOT building a confederacy.
    Now we're bridging the divide a little. Unfortunately, the Tea Party has the GOP's ear because they excite their base. I didn't leave the Republican Party, it left me. Privatization is inherently evil because of the very corruption you mentioned. Who's going to keep an eye on these corporate thieves? Certainly not the state/benefactor who has made them rich. Smaller government has proven to be a failure of Biblical proportions when it comes to education. Ronald Reagan disbanded a cabinet-level department in 1983 called the Department of Health, Education & Welfare (HEW). Pandering cost us taxpayers dearly for this foible and years later, a new Department of Education was created. Instead of shrinking government, Reagan actually expanded it because the states effed it up and required another cabinet post and the salaries of God knows how many federal employees. Bush 43 created the Department of Homeland Security and it's actually a Democratic administration toying with the idea of shutting it down. Go figure.
    08-21-2013 09:27 PM
  2. spaulagain's Avatar
    Now we're bridging the divide a little. Unfortunately, the Tea Party has the GOP's ear because they excite their base. I didn't leave the Republican Party, it left me. Privatization is inherently evil because of the very corruption you mentioned. Who's going to keep an eye on these corporate thieves? Certainly not the state/benefactor who has made them rich. Smaller government has proven to be a failure of Biblical proportions when it comes to education. Ronald Reagan disbanded a cabinet-level department in 1983 called the Department of Health, Education & Welfare (HEW). Pandering cost us taxpayers dearly for this foible and years later, a new Department of Education was created. Instead of shrinking government, Reagan actually expanded it because the states effed it up and required another cabinet post and the salaries of God knows how many federal employees. Bush 43 created the Department of Homeland Security and it's actually a Democratic administration toying with the idea of shutting it down. Go figure.
    Ok, you lost me at "privatization is inherently evil." Corruption is just as thick in government as any private corporation. The corruption I mentioned was on the federal side. Who's going to keep an eye on those political thieves? History has proven that government fvcks people over just as royally and often far worse than any private organization/corporation.

    There is no point in further discussing this anymore.
    Reflexx likes this.
    08-21-2013 11:10 PM
  3. christenmartin's Avatar
    Ok, you lost me at "privatization is inherently evil." Corruption is just as thick in government as any private corporation. The corruption I mentioned was on the federal side. Who's going to keep an eye on those political thieves? History has proven that government fvcks people over just as royally and often far worse than any private organization/corporation.

    There is no point in further discussing this anymore.
    Agreed! That is the inherent problem with government, there is no responsibility because there are no consequence to illegal behavior. A company runs in the red the CEO is the bad guy, government runs in the red no politician is held accountable. What always amazes me is politicians are worth 500 000 when they're elected and 10 years later they are worth 10,000,000, amassing all that wealth while in office. Amazing.
    Reflexx likes this.
    08-22-2013 09:22 AM
  4. jonathan sink's Avatar
    Now we're bridging the divide a little. Unfortunately, the Tea Party has the GOP's ear because they excite their base. I didn't leave the Republican Party, it left me. Privatization is inherently evil because of the very corruption you mentioned. Who's going to keep an eye on these corporate thieves? Certainly not the state/benefactor who has made them rich. Smaller government has proven to be a failure of Biblical proportions when it comes to education. Ronald Reagan disbanded a cabinet-level department in 1983 called the Department of Health, Education & Welfare (HEW). Pandering cost us taxpayers dearly for this foible and years later, a new Department of Education was created. Instead of shrinking government, Reagan actually expanded it because the states effed it up and required another cabinet post and the salaries of God knows how many federal employees. Bush 43 created the Department of Homeland Security and it's actually a Democratic administration toying with the idea of shutting it down. Go figure.
    really, I mean really? You name me one government anything that isn't corrupt. I can't at all levels the government is corrupt. Yet I guarantee you can only find a small percentage of private companies that screw over the consumers. This idea that government can do it better, or is less corrupt is just outright ridiculous. Its almost maddening! You bring up Reagan getting rid of a bureaucracy was a bad thing. Just wrong it was a good thing. What was bad was coming along later and just making a new one. What democratic administration are you referring to? Because the one in power now is letting dhs do whatever the hell they want. Further more this country would be better off moving towards the tea party at least then its the exact opposite direction that the repubs and progressives are taking us hand in hand. All while pretending to be opposing each other. I'm not the first to say it I can only hope I'm not the last but government is not the solution it is the problem!
    Reflexx likes this.
    08-22-2013 09:27 AM
  5. christenmartin's Avatar
    really, I mean really? You name me one government anything that isn't corrupt. I can't at all levels the government is corrupt. Yet I guarantee you can only find a small percentage of private companies that screw over the consumers. This idea that government can do it better, or is less corrupt is just outright ridiculous. Its almost maddening! You bring up Reagan getting rid of a bureaucracy was a bad thing. Just wrong it was a good thing. What was bad was coming along later and just making a new one. What democratic administration are you referring to? Because the one in power now is letting dhs do whatever the hell they want. Further more this country would be better off moving towards the tea party at least then its the exact opposite direction that the repubs and progressives are taking us hand in hand. All while pretending to be opposing each other. I'm not the first to say it I can only hope I'm not the last but government is not the solution it is the problem!
    Preach on! When I hear that the Republicans are controlled by the tee party I have to chuckle. Neither dems or repubs are for decreasing government and that is the only thing the tea party is about PERIOD. Government is were politicians get power an money so they don't want to decrease it. The gop actually campaigns against tea party candidates. Its called the ruling class against the rest of us. Any time there is a group or candidate that is serious about decreasing gov, both parties go to war with them. The dems are straight up about and the repubs do it in a roundabout way ( they're not electable, no funding, leaks, etc...). It will be a long battle to get the ruling class out.
    Reflexx likes this.
    08-22-2013 12:13 PM
  6. Reflexx's Avatar
    In the world of the internet and efficient communication and knowledge, these private companies you fear so much wouldn't be able to wield as much power.

    Well... not without government help.

    Privatization is a good thing as long as it is a true competing business. Get the government out of the way. Don't let them give favors and competitive advantages to the companies that donate more money to them. Reduce the power and influence of the Federal government so that politicians don't have the tools they use for corruption.
    christenmartin likes this.
    08-22-2013 12:30 PM
  7. christenmartin's Avatar
    In the world of the internet and efficient communication and knowledge, these private companies you fear so much wouldn't be able to wield as much power.

    Well... not without government help.

    Privatization is a good thing as long as it is a true competing business. Get the government out of the way. Don't let them give favors and competitive advantages to the companies that donate more money to them. Reduce the power and influence of the Federal government so that politicians don't have the tools they use for corruption.
    Well said. Private companies cannot make you do anything. You run into problems when politicians right regulations that force you to use a company or stiffles competition in favor of one company. Still, government is the problem because it is the only one that does business by force.
    08-22-2013 02:31 PM
  8. spaulagain's Avatar
    Well said. Private companies cannot make you do anything. You run into problems when politicians right regulations that force you to use a company or stiffles competition in favor of one company. Still, government is the problem because it is the only one that does business by force.
    Exactly. Businesses can't force you to do anything. Only if you chose to enter contract, or use a service of theirs can they enforce anything. Even then, you can choose not to do business with them anytime.

    Government, not so much. You have to abide by what is written in law. And even when the law is stupid, or inappropriate, its very difficult to fight it or get the law reversed.

    Politicians are amazing escape goats. They can do all kinds of damage under the radar, leave office, then blame the consequences on the next representative.

    I think fatclue doesn't have a fat clue... ;)
    christenmartin likes this.
    08-22-2013 04:33 PM
  9. christenmartin's Avatar
    Exactly. Businesses can't force you to do anything. Only if you chose to enter contract, or use a service of theirs can they enforce anything. Even then, you can choose not to do business with them anytime.

    Government, not so much. You have to abide by what is written in law. And even when the law is stupid, or inappropriate, its very difficult to fight it or get the law reversed.

    Politicians are amazing escape goats. They can do all kinds of damage under the radar, leave office, then blame the consequences on the next representative.

    I think fatclue doesn't have a fat clue... ;)
    you and quite a few others in this thread give me hope. You see what's in front of you and apply some critical thinking. It is sad to see politicians doing one thing, saying another, here's the sad part, and so many people follow them. I think your main job as a citizen is to keep a firm grasp on government. Out.
    08-23-2013 10:33 AM
  10. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Exactly. Businesses can't force you to do anything. Only if you chose to enter contract, or use a service of theirs can they enforce anything. Even then, you can choose not to do business with them anytime.

    Government, not so much. You have to abide by what is written in law. And even when the law is stupid, or inappropriate, its very difficult to fight it or get the law reversed.

    Politicians are amazing escape goats. They can do all kinds of damage under the radar, leave office, then blame the consequences on the next representative.

    I think fatclue doesn't have a fat clue... ;)
    Call me again when you reach my age and level of life experience. I was young and ideological once too.
    08-23-2013 05:28 PM
  11. WasteSomeTime's Avatar
    I don't understand why public schools need broadband. What's wrong with DSL? When I went to school they had DSL. It was connected to a hub and spread across several computers. Do kids really need a faster connection at school to use face book or YouTube? The teachers had they're own ( faster ) DSL network and there was nothing to complain about.
    08-23-2013 05:37 PM
  12. mase123987's Avatar
    I don't understand why public schools need broadband. What's wrong with DSL? When I went to school they had DSL. It was connected to a hub and spread across several computers. Do kids really need a faster connection at school to use face book or YouTube? The teachers had they're own ( faster ) DSL network and there was nothing to complain about.
    DSL is considered broadband.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    08-23-2013 05:49 PM
  13. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I don't understand why public schools need broadband. What's wrong with DSL? When I went to school they had DSL. It was connected to a hub and spread across several computers. Do kids really need a faster connection at school to use face book or YouTube? The teachers had they're own ( faster ) DSL network and there was nothing to complain about.
    Why do kids need YouTube or Facebook at school anyway? Why do kids need a phone in the first place?
    08-23-2013 06:35 PM
  14. mase123987's Avatar
    Why do kids need YouTube or Facebook at school anyway? Why do kids need a phone in the first place?
    They don't.
    08-23-2013 06:53 PM
  15. spaulagain's Avatar
    Call me again when you reach my age and level of life experience. I was young and ideological once too.
    What? Because I (and others) have a different political view, I must be younger and naive?

    What I have said is no more ideological than the fantasy land you live in where government is perfect and all private companies are evil.

    My parents are nearly retired and far older than probably anyone in this thread but they feel the same way about government and politics. Are they naive and ideological too? If anything, older (wiser, more experienced) people tend to lean against government because they've witnessed the corruption and stupidity that has been funded by decades of their hard earned money through taxes.

    Call me back when you've gotten over yourself and matured enough to recognize people have their own views developed through life just like you. Just because they're different, doesn't make the naive or less mature.
    kbilly70 likes this.
    08-23-2013 07:06 PM
  16. spaulagain's Avatar
    I don't understand why public schools need broadband. What's wrong with DSL? When I went to school they had DSL. It was connected to a hub and spread across several computers. Do kids really need a faster connection at school to use face book or YouTube? The teachers had they're own ( faster ) DSL network and there was nothing to complain about.
    I don't mind the idea of schools needing broadband. The problem is our schools already have budget efficiency issues. Adding another tax to fund it is just unnecessary. And why peoples cell phone bills? Just seems like another excuse to tax people.
    08-23-2013 07:23 PM
  17. WasteSomeTime's Avatar
    What? Because I (and others) have a different political view, I must be younger and naive?

    What I have said is no more ideological than the fantasy land you live in where government is perfect and all private companies are evil.

    My parents are nearly retired and far older than probably anyone in this thread but they feel the same way about government and politics. Are they naive and ideological too? If anything, older (wiser, more experienced) people tend to lean against government because they've witnessed the corruption and stupidity that has been funded by decades of their hard earned money through taxes.

    Call me back when you've gotten over yourself and matured enough to recognize people have their own views developed through life just like you. Just because they're different, doesn't make the naive or less mature.
    the government is stupid and unable to manage a budget, your parents are wise and nothing has changed.
    08-23-2013 11:26 PM
  18. WasteSomeTime's Avatar
    If it was up to me the kids would have a mommy & daddy button. Some friends on the phone book and no messaging.

    http://image.ffmobile.com/product/ph...c5b6cc5595.jpg
    08-23-2013 11:34 PM
  19. spazzmeister's Avatar
    Thanks Obama!
    08-23-2013 11:35 PM
  20. jefbeard911's Avatar
    How is that?
    Are you saying that broadband is unrelated to cell phones like buying fruit is to own g a car? Can you live without a broadband connection on your phone? They are integral at this point. That's why they call them smartphones. Its a computer that also makes calls.
    Besides, governments tax people on unrelated issues all the time. No surprise there. It will come up for a vote. Simply vote NO.
    08-24-2013 01:05 AM
  21. apalm8's Avatar
    Rand Paul 2016.
    10-23-2013 06:48 PM
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