09-06-2013 09:38 PM
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  1. sumton's Avatar
    to be honest i really don't care if they are going to use a different name i bought lumia not because of brand name i bought it because of the hardware quality, windows phone OS and innovation which is still is available but under different brand name i think windows phone going to have a better future after both companies becoming one
    Dk92 likes this.
    09-04-2013 07:45 AM
  2. TerenceJohn27's Avatar
    You dont know how it feels... When your favorite mobile brand a company that you love and support for many years will come to its end. I dont know about windows phone before until Nokia used it, majority of WP users came from Nokia Fans those who are using Symbian, S40, S30 and MeeGo. If Nokia choose Android instead of Windows Phone, I am probably using Android right now.
    09-04-2013 07:55 AM
  3. Sanjay Chandra's Avatar
    I agree that loosing the Nokia brand in the WP ecosystem may negatively impact sales. However, we aren't talking about the same things.

    My reply was to someone that posted at WPC. I assume such a person has a bit more than just a passive and mild interest in smartphone technology. IMHO none of us here at WPC are so ignorant, that we should have to resort to brand names as a means of making our smartphone purchasing choices. Brand based marketing is targeted at people who know little to nothing about the actual products, but that isn't us, is it? We know a lot more about what is going on in the smartphone industry and we're far more aware of our own technological wants and needs, so we should be able to better judge devices on their actual merits and what is important to us, rather than just by the brand sticker. In this case, the enthusiast community should also recognize that the same people who made the devices we enjoyed, are still making new devices, just under a different name.

    I don't expect the average consumer to pick up on that though... that would be asking too much.
    For me ,

    Brand = Trust

    In general ,
    MS = I don't trust
    Nokia = I trust

    Its as simple as this :
    Two phone with same specifications and same OS ,
    HTC - Few people trust - Few people buy
    Samsung - Most people trust - More people buy
    09-04-2013 08:02 AM
  4. sumton's Avatar
    You dont know how it feels... When your favorite mobile brand a company that you love and support for many years will come to its end. I dont know about windows phone before until Nokia used it, majority of WP users came from Nokia Fans those who are using Symbian, S40, S30 and MeeGo. If Nokia choose Android instead of Windows Phone, I am probably using Android right now.
    i grow up using nokia phones but the way i look at it as if it forced to change brand name from one to another who drove nokia for many years with awesome hardware still going to produce more awesome hardware / software with microsoft help
    09-04-2013 08:38 AM
  5. TerenceJohn27's Avatar
    Right...
    09-04-2013 08:40 AM
  6. Reflexx's Avatar
    I don't trust HTC. But if they bought Nokia, then I'd give their new handsets a chance.

    For those of you who don't trust MS. Why do you think they bought Nokia devices and services? Do t you think it's because they know the quality that comes along with it? Dont you think that they would want to preserve that quality?

    Also remember that MS just went through a MAJOR reorg. They're streamlining the entire operation to try to be more agile and reduce the amount of red tape that existed between divisions.

    Now the next thing I hope they change is how they rate employee performance. It's bad for morale to always take a certain percentage and label them low performers. I think they need to accept the possibility that sometimes a place can be filled with stellar people even within the bottom 10% if you did a good job at hiring and leading.
    a5cent likes this.
    09-04-2013 10:17 AM
  7. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    I don't really get the 'I don't trust MS' thinking either.

    Here's something got get into your heads, hopefully.

    The Nokia brand name and probably Lumia will disappear eventually. They only have them for 10 years max but most likely they'll go sooner.

    MS owns the OS on your phone. Personally if I didn't trust them I wouldn't own the phone. Nokia was hardware only. If you're only going on hardware with WP then I don't get why you're bothering with the platform.

    The only thing that will hopefully come out of this is that MS will use the Nokia engineers well and create good products that people will want. That's all we can hope for. Whether it's branded Nokia or MS or Lumia makes little difference at the end of the day. It's Windows Phone regardless.

    Can we please move on now?
    a5cent likes this.
    09-04-2013 11:03 AM
  8. Doohickie's Avatar
    Now the next thing I hope they change is how they rate employee performance. It's bad for morale to always take a certain percentage and label them low performers. I think they need to accept the possibility that sometimes a place can be filled with stellar people even within the bottom 10% if you did a good job at hiring and leading.
    Welcome to the tech world. That's pretty universal for tech firms above a certain size, where executive decisions are driven by metrics. You can't base decisions on individual personalities, you have to quantify things; otherwise you have a steaming hot mess of a workforce.
    09-04-2013 12:00 PM
  9. Reflexx's Avatar
    Welcome to the tech world. That's pretty universal for tech firms above a certain size, where executive decisions are driven by metrics. You can't base decisions on individual personalities, you have to quantify things; otherwise you have a steaming hot mess of a workforce.
    Apple, Google, and Amazon dont do that do they?
    09-04-2013 12:22 PM
  10. Doohickie's Avatar
    Apple, Google, and Amazon dont do that do they?
    I don't have firsthand knowledge, but if they don't, they're not managing their resources properly.

    I worked for an automotive supplier several years ago. They were started out by a guy who liked to "manage by walking around." He made it a point to know everyone. At least, he did in the beginning. The company got up to 3000 employees (which is still much smaller than any of the tech companies we're talking about) and his business partners (i.e., the banks who financed the company's credit line) pointed out to him that while you can "manage by walking around" when you have a hundred employees, you simply can't do that once you grow past a certain point, and they forced him to adopt a more structured employee appraisal system. When he had 100 employees, he knew best how to handle them, who to assign to what project, who needed help, who needed to go. With 3000 employees, you can't possibly know people with enough depth to make those judgments, so you have to quantify their relative value. When you do that, you're going to have Golden Boys who are obviously very talented and get things done, and also the Bottom 10% who you need to more actively manage, and at least some of whom are liabilities rather than assets to the company.

    Remember that companies want to maximize production for each employee while minimizing their outlay for that employee. That's how they make money. Once you're much past Small Business status, you can't know employees individually to the extent that you can effectively manage them, you have to depend on metrics. So you come up with a measure of their performance and compare it to how much they're getting paid, and try to maximize the production/compensation ratio. If an employee gets paid a lot, but is only so-so in terms of production, they may be labeled bottom 10%. Another employee may be a low-paid new hire but producing the same level of work as the first guy. They both produce the same amount of revenue for the company, but one is paid a lot less. If you have to lay someone off due to a downturn, it's gonna be that first guy. But it's not a subjective thing; it's all done with numbers and metrics.
    09-04-2013 01:00 PM
  11. Reflexx's Avatar
    I understand that.

    I just heard that at MS it's especially harsh. You could have a department that is filled with great workers, but some will have to be labeled as bad just because that's the way it is.
    09-04-2013 03:53 PM
  12. EchoRedux's Avatar
    The people who say they buy Nokia because it says Nokia remind me of Apple sheep. Buy the best smartphone you can for your budget, not what the brand says on the phone. I prefer WP over Android, BB7/10 and iOS and I liked the camera on the 1020 so that's why I bought it. I had a Samsung Focus S before that and it in my opinion performed just as good as the Nokia. These different brands all use the same Qualcomm chips, and MS gives the same OS to each of them. The main differences lie in the phone's shell and that's about it.
    09-04-2013 04:10 PM
  13. Doohickie's Avatar
    I understand that.

    I just heard that at MS it's especially harsh. You could have a department that is filled with great workers, but some will have to be labeled as bad just because that's the way it is.
    Early in my career I got caught up in that stuff, got laid off a few times in the early-mid 90s. After blaming the system and the unfairness of it all, I looked inward and I could see why I was in that bottom portion. I changed some things about my approach to work. Bottom line, if someone is labeled as "bad," it's because they're not as good as the rest.
    09-04-2013 04:49 PM
  14. Reflexx's Avatar
    Early in my career I got caught up in that stuff, got laid off a few times in the early-mid 90s. After blaming the system and the unfairness of it all, I looked inward and I could see why I was in that bottom portion. I changed some things about my approach to work. Bottom line, if someone is labeled as "bad," it's because they're not as good as the rest.
    I mainly fear what it does to smaller departments where you have groups of creative trying to do special things as a team.

    If it's just a job where it's easy to quantify, that's totally understandable.

    But on something like a design team, I imagine that could do the exact opposite of promoting teamwork.
    a5cent likes this.
    09-04-2013 05:21 PM
  15. Phone Guy 4567's Avatar
    To the people who point to MS management being terrible, what would you call Nokia management? The only reason they got involved with MS was out of necessity after years of mismanagement of their own. having owned at least 2 S60 phones in the past I don't recall receiving many updates, and the build quality was good but not spectacular.
    09-04-2013 05:34 PM
  16. ChMar's Avatar
    To the people who point to MS management being terrible, what would you call Nokia management? The only reason they got involved with MS was out of necessity after years of mismanagement of their own. having owned at least 2 S60 phones in the past I don't recall receiving many updates, and the build quality was good but not spectacular.
    This stuff with nokia being the GOOD guys and doing everything right is nationalistic European talk. I leave in Balkans so I'm an European. I had a lot of nokia phones just like everyone in the country. Once phones moved in to the iphone smartphone era no one was buying nokia because they did not made appealing smartphones. No one in my country really cared about this European pride for manufacturers. Why this so much hate for Microsoft when it comes to MS / Nokia relation? Just because one is an European company and the other is an American company? Nokia screwed themselves and become not competitive themselves it is not MS fault. At this point seeing so much pro nokia comments I just wish MS abandoned nokia to it's fate and bough htc in exchange. At that point no pro-European stands would have been taken as European would not care that much.
    Nokia does not build in Finland anymore so why do you care so much???? It's like apple and their designed in California assembled in china logo. Nokia devices was bough but the same people will make the design and the same people will make the devices in some factories in asia so what has changed? That those same people you praise so much no receive their checks from US instead from a Finland company?
    Until the news of the buy emerged there were a lot of posts saying that people were wishing that MS would buy nokia for a better future. Where are those people now? I see only people complaining and mourning nokia. All the people saying that MS did ok with surface and xbox but that they had losses on per device sells. So does nokia with the lumia. They are loosing money per device. So how did that you judge MS but not nokia?
    squire777 likes this.
    09-04-2013 06:00 PM
  17. TerenceJohn27's Avatar
    The people who say they buy Nokia because it says Nokia remind me of Apple sheep. Buy the best smartphone you can for your budget, not what the brand says on the phone. I prefer WP over Android, BB7/10 and iOS and I liked the camera on the 1020 so that's why I bought it. I had a Samsung Focus S before that and it in my opinion performed just as good as the Nokia. These different brands all use the same Qualcomm chips, and MS gives the same OS to each of them. The main differences lie in the phone's shell and that's about it.
    Call us Isheep but we love Nokia, we are nokians we are not a fan of windows phone. We are just here because of Nokia. If Nokia choose Android instead of Windows Phone. I am using android right now.
    09-04-2013 07:21 PM
  18. Doohickie's Avatar
    I can understand what you're saying. In the end, it becomes very apparent to supervisors which employees are honestly working to better a design and which are the BS artists trying to up their appraisal ratings. It may not happen immediately, but as a team member moves to different teams, their effect on the team (good or bad) becomes obvious. So the best thing to do is to keep your head down, do what you're asked to do, and let the politics sort themselves out. If you're doing the best you can, you will get rewarded. If you're just trying to impress people, they will see you for the self-promoting empty shell that you are.
    09-05-2013 12:55 AM
  19. a5cent's Avatar
    I don't have firsthand knowledge, but if they don't, they're not managing their resources properly.
    I don't know about Apple, but Google and Amazon do not manage their staff that way. If you tell someone long enough that they are poor performers, that is exactly what they will become. Making matters even worse, is that many reasons exist for lower level management to slap the poor performer stamp on someone besides actually performing poorly. Being forced to slap that label on 10% of your staff, even if your team of 12 are all well above average, is just one of many stupid reasons. I've had to wield that stamp in just such a situation, and it isn't fun.

    Obviously, one person can't manage 3000 employees. That is why companies of that size have more than a single level of management. The nature of that job differs at different management levels. At lower levels, management by "walking around" does work, no matter what size the company is. If that is the best suited management style is a different debate.

    Your idea of what constitutes proper management only works on the factory line, where you can objectively measure performance simply by counting parts per hour. It doesn't work at all in a software engineering environment, where creativity and finding original solutions to tough problems is a big part of the job description.

    Finally, those employed at Apple, Google, Amazon or Microsoft aren't resources. They are staff... employees... people... humans. The dehumanization of the modern workforce is a large part of what is wrong in our culture.
    09-05-2013 05:07 AM
  20. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Oh look it's everyone's worst fear! Well not mine or anyone who has no brand loyalty.
    Nokia name to go away with the Lumia line as Microsoft seeks to unify branding | Windows Phone Central
    09-05-2013 07:37 AM
  21. Sanjay Chandra's Avatar
    I don't really get the 'I don't trust MS' thinking either.

    Here's something got get into your heads, hopefully.

    The Nokia brand name and probably Lumia will disappear eventually. They only have them for 10 years max but most likely they'll go sooner.

    MS owns the OS on your phone. Personally if I didn't trust them I wouldn't own the phone. Nokia was hardware only. If you're only going on hardware with WP then I don't get why you're bothering with the platform.

    The only thing that will hopefully come out of this is that MS will use the Nokia engineers well and create good products that people will want. That's all we can hope for. Whether it's branded Nokia or MS or Lumia makes little difference at the end of the day. It's Windows Phone regardless.

    Can we please move on now?
    So , Basically Apple is same under Tim Cook as it was under Steve Jobs ? Because according to your logic , the same engineers are working under Cook as well.

    That's How I see Nokia Independently Vs Nokia Under Microsoft.


    MS owns the OS on your phone. Personally if I didn't trust them I wouldn't own the phone. Nokia was hardware only. If you're only going on hardware with WP then I don't get why you're bothering with the platform.
    That's why I sold off my Lumia for a Galaxy.

    I bought Lumia because I like Nokia's service and hardware as well as their presence around my region.My phone before Lumia was Nokia as well.
    09-05-2013 10:27 AM
  22. Phone Guy 4567's Avatar
    The independent Nokia had already failed before MS got involved, they rode the S40 & S60 wave into the ground.
    mpt15 likes this.
    09-05-2013 10:41 AM
  23. Phone Guy 4567's Avatar
    This stuff with nokia being the GOOD guys and doing everything right is nationalistic European talk. I leave in Balkans so I'm an European. I had a lot of nokia phones just like everyone in the country. Once phones moved in to the iphone smartphone era no one was buying nokia because they did not made appealing smartphones. No one in my country really cared about this European pride for manufacturers. Why this so much hate for Microsoft when it comes to MS / Nokia relation? Just because one is an European company and the other is an American company? Nokia screwed themselves and become not competitive themselves it is not MS fault. At this point seeing so much pro nokia comments I just wish MS abandoned nokia to it's fate and bough htc in exchange. At that point no pro-European stands would have been taken as European would not care that much.
    Nokia does not build in Finland anymore so why do you care so much???? It's like apple and their designed in California assembled in china logo. Nokia devices was bough but the same people will make the design and the same people will make the devices in some factories in asia so what has changed? That those same people you praise so much no receive their checks from US instead from a Finland company?
    Until the news of the buy emerged there were a lot of posts saying that people were wishing that MS would buy nokia for a better future. Where are those people now? I see only people complaining and mourning nokia. All the people saying that MS did ok with surface and xbox but that they had losses on per device sells. So does nokia with the lumia. They are loosing money per device. So how did that you judge MS but not nokia?

    You bring up excellent points. I especially agree with you that MS should have gone with HTC rather then Nokia. Heck they could have picked up BlackBerry for that matter and got the same result. Of course they should have done so a couple of years back before Nokia started making WP. Blackberry would have worked IMO, MS could have put WP on touch screen devices & maybe left QNX for keyboard devices.
    09-05-2013 11:02 AM
  24. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    So , Basically Apple is same under Tim Cook as it was under Steve Jobs ? Because according to your logic , the same engineers are working under Cook as well.

    That's How I see Nokia Independently Vs Nokia Under Microsoft.




    That's why I sold off my Lumia for a Galaxy.

    I bought Lumia because I like Nokia's service and hardware as well as their presence around my region.My phone before Lumia was Nokia as well.
    Hey whatever works for you. I expect you to do the same when Samsung changes management to. Going by your logic.

    Nokia was barely profitable. Either MS bought them or someone else might have. Which would you prefer?
    mpt15 likes this.
    09-05-2013 11:29 AM
  25. Sanjay Chandra's Avatar
    Hey whatever works for you. I expect you to do the same when Samsung changes management to. Going by your logic.

    Nokia was barely profitable. Either MS bought them or someone else might have. Which would you prefer?
    Nokia became barely profitable because they adopted WP exclusively.

    Its a known fact by everyone.They lost so much value and the deal also came cheaper (lower value)

    They could have chosen Samsung's way of adopting multiple OS instead of depending completely on MS

    Nokia was trusted by so many people , but still it went down in no time.
    Why ?It Didn't listen to consumers.

    Samsung has a cheap design , plastic etc. but that's what people are buying.Why ? because Samsung designed touchwiz keeping average consumer in mind and made design decisions according to consumer's voice (like SD-card , light weight , slim design , removable battery etc.)

    Windows Laptops (majority of the sold ones) have crappy screens , cheap trackpads , unbearable keyboards etc. but still sell better than Well-designed,industrial design Macbooks.Why ? because OEMs listen to what consumers want and keep them (like optical drive or high end graphic card etc.) but Apple doesn't.
    09-05-2013 12:51 PM
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