02-20-2015 05:29 PM
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  1. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Finally sat through the movie "Zeitgeist" on Netflix. Man, talk about rethinking history. Even if a fraction of that documentary has truth behind it... *Putting on my tinfoil hat as I type this.*
    I've been wanting to see this. I wasn't sure what it was about. I'll have to take a look now. I wouldn't go out in a thunderstorm with a tinfoil hat by the way. :P
    03-03-2014 02:09 AM
  2. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    I didnt mean alien. I just meant different species possibly branching off of early hominid and evolving parallel to homosapiens. Maybe close enough to interbreed. As far as the tiny human, I'd seen pictures of little people. Very rare and not the size of the skeleton but if its possible to be 20" tall, why not 6". It must have been the easiest birth ever...You think she even knew? Like when the baby kicked did she just blame on the ancient Taco Bell she had for dinner the night before?
    Ah, I must have misunderstood. We were talking about aliens so I just assumed. Silly me.

    As for the size of this individual anything is possible, within limits of course.
    03-03-2014 02:12 AM
  3. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Not that I believe in all them, but anything that reminds us that the only thing we know is that we actually don't know squat is fine with me. Life is way more fun that way!!
    I don't know if I'd go that far. What we do know is quite a lot and things are being added all the time or corrected. Things we don't know are simply gaps to be filled in. There are some questions we will probably never know the answers to but such is life.

    Bigfoot and the rest I never quite understood. All evidence so far for any of them has proven to be a hoax. I don't see them as shaking anything up. Just people tricking others and time and money being wasted on nonsense.
    03-03-2014 02:16 AM
  4. palandri's Avatar
    The Science Channel in the states is running a series this week called, Are We Alone: Are We Alone : Science Channel They look at everything scientifically. There's no hokey pokey grey aliens running around. Tonight's show is called Alien Planet Earth

    Last night the show was called, NASA: Unexplained Files. Most of the show dealt with things that were unexplained, but are now explained, like object the Astronauts see and are photographed or live shots outside the space station. A couple of the things that are still unexplained or not fully explained were:

    Flashes of light that the Astronauts see, which were really strong going to the moon. There are all kinds of test they have ran with special goggles and such, but they aren't really sure what these flashes are. There only conclusion so far is it's some type of cosmic rays causing the flashes of light they all see in space.

    They also reviewed that Mars meteor they found that they think may show fossilized life. It was found in 1984, and the odd thing about it was parts of it were green, when meteors are normally very dark or black in color. Nine years later when they cut it open is when they found what looked like microbial fossils. One scientist said there's a real simple test to see if its microbial life and he has no idea why they haven't performed the test.

    They also looked at the red cracked on Europa, which look like rust. Most scientists believe through spectrum analysis it's some type of sulfur. One scientist did a comparative spectrum analysis with known forms of life on earth, and he had a 95% match with microbes that live in the hot geysers in Yellowstone Park. He doesn't conclude it's life on Europa, but he's shocked there's a 95% match.

    It's a really good series so far.
    N_LaRUE likes this.
    03-03-2014 08:42 AM
  5. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Some of the shows on the Discovery Channel and Science Channel are good but there are some that just horrible. It's all about ratings unfortunately.

    The thing to be cautious of is people giving opinions about things they probably have no idea about. I found on a couple of shows I saw in the past that people were making statements about things with some certainty and knowing full well they were really guessing. That irritates me.

    Is there other life out there on other planets? Yeah I'd say 100%. Is there other intelligent life? I'll say 50/50, depending on your idea of intelligence. Is there more advanced life than humans in the universe? I give that a 5-10%. It's a big place out there and knowing where we sit in it gives one a better clarity to the realities of the situation. :)
    palandri likes this.
    03-03-2014 08:50 AM
  6. palandri's Avatar
    Some of the shows on the Discovery Channel and Science Channel are good but there are some that just horrible. It's all about ratings unfortunately.

    The thing to be cautious of is people giving opinions about things they probably have no idea about. I found on a couple of shows I saw in the past that people were making statements about things with some certainty and knowing full well they were really guessing. That irritates me.

    Is there other life out there on other planets? Yeah I'd say 100%. Is there other intelligent life? I'll say 50/50, depending on your idea of intelligence. Is there more advanced life than humans in the universe? I give that a 5-10%. It's a big place out there and knowing where we sit in it gives one a better clarity to the realities of the situation. :)
    I agree. There are also shows on similar channels that deal with the Majestic 12 or Eisenhower's 1954 meeting with aliens or Bob Lazar. Those are just mostly science fiction. Kind of like watching Star Trek. I say "mostly" because there are some facts like Bob Lazar did work at the Los Alamos National Laboratory, even though they claim he didn't, but his name is listed in the Los Alamos National Laboratory telephone directory, but the rest is science fiction.

    I disagree with you on intelligent life, To me the universe is just to large for there not to be intelligent life elsewhere. The same star stuff we're make out of is going to be common across the universe since we came from the same big bang.
    N_LaRUE likes this.
    03-03-2014 09:50 AM
  7. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    I disagree with you on intelligent life, To me the universe is just to large for there not to be intelligent life elsewhere. The same star stuff we're make out of is going to be common across the universe since we came from the same big bang.
    Keep in mind one thing. This goes with what I stated about what one considers 'intelligent' life. From an evolutionary point of view probability is very low. It took around 4.5 billion years for the Earth to develop intelligent life. The further away an expolanet is the more likely that it may not exist anymore. This is part of the problem we have with trying to sort out if there is still intelligent life in the universe. In a real sense we're in a 'new' solar system. Some of the stars we see are possibly long dead along with the planets that surrounded it.
    palandri likes this.
    03-03-2014 09:57 AM
  8. palandri's Avatar
    Keep in mind one thing. This goes with what I stated about what one considers 'intelligent' life. From an evolutionary point of view probability is very low. It took around 4.5 billion years for the Earth to develop intelligent life. The further away an expolanet is the more likely that it may not exist anymore. This is part of the problem we have with trying to sort out if there is still intelligent life in the universe. In a real sense we're in a 'new' solar system. Some of the stars we see are possibly long dead along with the planets that surrounded it.
    Something I've never really understood about photons is how they can travel so far and not disperse. We still see that dot of light billions of miles away. It's seems almost impossible, but it's not.
    03-03-2014 10:24 AM
  9. Scienceguy Labs's Avatar
    Keep in mind one thing. This goes with what I stated about what one considers 'intelligent' life. From an evolutionary point of view probability is very low. It took around 4.5 billion years for the Earth to develop intelligent life. The further away an expolanet is the more likely that it may not exist anymore. This is part of the problem we have with trying to sort out if there is still intelligent life in the universe. In a real sense we're in a 'new' solar system. Some of the stars we see are possibly long dead along with the planets that surrounded it.
    But what is intelligence? At the most basic meaning, isn't intelligence simply the ability to recognize and solve problems for the immediate benefit of the individual and, later, the benefit of the species? If you accept that definition, then intelligent life has flourished on Earth, and just might as well be flourishing elsewhere in the cosmos at the same level of intensity.
    I really like your "new" solar system position. Not many people mention that what we observe at great distances is merely a reflection of light, of which the reflective source might no longer still be there. Awesome! But, might their be non-planet bound intelligent life out there??? Just throwing that out there. :) Great conversation, by the way.
    palandri likes this.
    03-03-2014 10:26 AM
  10. palandri's Avatar
    Cool, Scienceguy Labs is here.
    03-03-2014 10:36 AM
  11. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    But what is intelligence? At the most basic meaning, isn't intelligence simply the ability to recognize and solve problems for the immediate benefit of the individual and, later, the benefit of the species? If you accept that definition, then intelligent life has flourished on Earth, and just might as well be flourishing elsewhere in the cosmos at the same level of intensity.
    Well, yes that is a basic definition of intelligence, some say that simply recognizing your reflection is a sign of intelligence because you have a definition of 'self'. Intelligence can mean many things. A single bee might not be very smart, but a swarm could be very intelligent, group think is what it's often referred to. That's why I said, what is your definition of intelligent life? If it means 'similar to humans' then I think, going by our own world, that percentage is very low, like 50%. If by simply sentient beings, then I think very high.

    I really like your "new" solar system position. Not many people mention that what we observe at great distances is merely a reflection of light, of which the reflective source might no longer still be there. Awesome! But, might their be non-planet bound intelligent life out there??? Just throwing that out there. :) Great conversation, by the way.
    If you're referring to beings who may have boarded a ship and are roaming the universe then, yes that's possible. Thing is they would have to have very advanced systems to survive in such a harsh environment. Not saying it isn't possible but that is quite a stretch for us to think at this stage. The beings would have to evolve to deal with the environment if they don't have those systems. We already know from our own experiences that surviving in space for any length of time has detrimental effects on our bodies. Is it possible to procreate in zero gravity? Can you survive in a recycled air system without encountering disease? What happens if disease breaks out. These are the things that cross my mind when I think of long length space travel. So much can go wrong. Star Trek makes it looks simple.
    03-03-2014 10:59 AM
  12. Scienceguy Labs's Avatar
    Well, yes that is a basic definition of intelligence, some say that simply recognizing your reflection is a sign of intelligence because you have a definition of 'self'. Intelligence can mean many things. A single bee might not be very smart, but a swarm could be very intelligent, group think is what it's often referred to. That's why I said, what is your definition of intelligent life? If it means 'similar to humans' then I think, going by our own world, that percentage is very low, like 50%. If by simply sentient beings, then I think very high.



    If you're referring to beings who may have boarded a ship and are roaming the universe then, yes that's possible. Thing is they would have to have very advanced systems to survive in such a harsh environment. Not saying it isn't possible but that is quite a stretch for us to think at this stage. The beings would have to evolve to deal with the environment if they don't have those systems. We already know from our own experiences that surviving in space for any length of time has detrimental effects on our bodies. Is it possible to procreate in zero gravity? Can you survive in a recycled air system without encountering disease? What happens if disease breaks out. These are the things that cross my mind when I think of long length space travel. So much can go wrong. Star Trek makes it looks simple.
    Totally agree. I get irritated sometimes when the only view of ET intelligent life presented is humanoid. Very small chance of bumping into another human...probably safe to say a zero chance.

    Not so much Star Trek: Enterprise, but more of a non-humanoid intelligent life existing in the realms of the universe we haven't observed or understand. Kind of like your bee example....group thinking life in space. You're right though, I've just finished a marathon of all four seasons of Enterprise. ha ha
    Now the real question is: Do we really want to meet another form of intelligent life on par with us, assuming we can truly be called intelligent? lol
    palandri likes this.
    03-03-2014 11:39 AM
  13. Scienceguy Labs's Avatar
    And as far as long-term travel in deep space....I'm not sure we will be doing that for quite some time for all your reasons and more. Most likely we will be using drones and other mechanized forms of space travel...I'm just repeating what Phil Plaitt once said in a debate with Neil DeGrasse Tyson. I have no way of knowing what's ahead, but it seems logical to send "robots" out there first. Although I do love the romanticized portrayal of space travel found in Enterprise and TNG. I am somewhat curious about this Mars "reality" show though.
    N_LaRUE, palandri and muneshyne21 like this.
    03-03-2014 11:45 AM
  14. muneshyne21's Avatar
    I think the Mars reality TV show sounds like a horrible idea unless it is funded and coordinated by NASA. The first people that get to mars are trying to limit drama not create it for entertainment. With enough money thrown at the situation and greedy entertainment people at the helm, they could sabotage the mission to no extent just by deliberately choosing the wrong people to go. In essence, a successful mission should be completely uneventful and boring (Kinda like how the NASA channel can be). The only people cheering and hollering should be the scientist on earth reviewing the data collected. I can only imagine the takeoff and decent being ridiculously dramatized.
    Last edited by muneshyne21; 03-03-2014 at 03:58 PM.
    palandri likes this.
    03-03-2014 03:27 PM
  15. palandri's Avatar
    I think the Mars reality TV show sounds like a horrible idea unless it is funded and coordinated by NASA. The first people that get to mars are trying to limit drama not create it for entertainment. With enough money thrown at the situation and greedy entertainment people at the helm, they could sabotage the mission to no extent just by deliberately choosing the wrong people to go. In essence, a successful mission should be completely uneventful and boring (Kinda like how the NASA channel can be). The only people cheering and hollering should be the scientist on earth reviewing the data collected. I can only imagine the takeoff and decent being ridiculously dramatized.
    What??? You don't like the idea of the Kardashians on Mars? Kim in a corner crying, I want to go home.
    muneshyne21 and N_LaRUE like this.
    03-03-2014 04:07 PM
  16. muneshyne21's Avatar
    ...zero gravity Kim K. booty...hmmmmmmmmm. Oh...sorry...what were we talking about again? Somethin about Spaceballs and Mike Tyson...?
    palandri likes this.
    03-03-2014 10:04 PM
  17. muneshyne21's Avatar
    Totally agree. I get irritated sometimes when the only view of ET intelligent life presented is humanoid. Very small chance of bumping into another human...probably safe to say a zero chance.

    Not so much Star Trek: Enterprise, but more of a non-humanoid intelligent life existing in the realms of the universe we haven't observed or understand. Kind of like your bee example....group thinking life in space. You're right though, I've just finished a marathon of all four seasons of Enterprise. ha ha
    Now the real question is: Do we really want to meet another form of intelligent life on par with us, assuming we can truly be called intelligent? lol
    Ahhhh so you are a Star Wars Space guy then? I am but I also just finished up the Enterprise series on Netflix. I think the shows demise had to do with that mood killing, cheesy opening song..."ITS BEEN A LOOOONG TIME..."
    Start trek loved anthropomorphic beings with all the qualities of a human plus a few ridges on their nose, pointy ears, or blue skin. Star Wars varied the definition of an intelligent being a little more. They usually tended to have two arms and two eyes but at least you have a huge space slug as a crime lord and a blue elephant that's a kick *** piano player. Enterprise actually went the furthest of the Star Trek world with those manatee guys and big flys.
    palandri and Scienceguy Labs like this.
    03-03-2014 10:16 PM
  18. palandri's Avatar
    I watched Alien Planet Earth tonight on the Science channel in the states. It was an extremely interesting look at exoplanets.

    It all started in 1995 with the discovery of the first exoplanet and has exploded since the deployment of the Kepler telescope (see the chart below). Currently there's an estimated 11 billion habitable exoplanets in the Goldilocks zone within the Milky Way. This doesn't include potential habitable moons around exoplanets or any habitable exoplanets around red dwarfs stars. So that 11 billion habitable number could easily triple. Good stuff!
    Attached Thumbnails exoplanets.jpg  
    muneshyne21 and N_LaRUE like this.
    03-03-2014 11:41 PM
  19. Scienceguy Labs's Avatar
    Ahhhh so you are a Star Wars Space guy then? I am but I also just finished up the Enterprise series on Netflix. I think the shows demise had to do with that mood killing, cheesy opening song..."ITS BEEN A LOOOONG TIME..."
    Start trek loved anthropomorphic beings with all the qualities of a human plus a few ridges on their nose, pointy ears, or blue skin. Star Wars varied the definition of an intelligent being a little more. They usually tended to have two arms and two eyes but at least you have a huge space slug as a crime lord and a blue elephant that's a kick *** piano player. Enterprise actually went the furthest of the Star Trek world with those manatee guys and big flys.
    Ha ha. Yeah, I never could get into that song. I had to skip it every time. lol I did find myself liking all the Enterprise characters though, more so than any other SciFi series I have seen. Although The Next Generation's characters are a close second. I did get tired of all the humanoid characters with multiple ears or noses, etc. Kind of unimaginative.
    Ha ha....but I guess the Cosmos would be a helluva a lot cooler place if we could party down on Tattooine with Lando and Han kicking out some karaoke duets. :)
    palandri likes this.
    03-04-2014 01:16 AM
  20. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Totally agree. I get irritated sometimes when the only view of ET intelligent life presented is humanoid. Very small chance of bumping into another human...probably safe to say a zero chance.
    Agree totally.

    Not so much Star Trek: Enterprise, but more of a non-humanoid intelligent life existing in the realms of the universe we haven't observed or understand. Kind of like your bee example....group thinking life in space. You're right though, I've just finished a marathon of all four seasons of Enterprise. ha ha
    Now the real question is: Do we really want to meet another form of intelligent life on par with us, assuming we can truly be called intelligent? lol
    Now when I first read this I couldn't help but thinking of some sort of alien plankton wandering through the depths of space as if it were an ocean. I guess it didn't help that I read an article prior to this about scientist wanting to view the universe in a fluid like form. Of course the problem with this idea is how it could happen in the first place.

    You hit upon a point that's been made by many and I think even Stephen Hawking made this point. Do we really want to meet another race that is similar to us or even worse, more advanced? That's not to say they'd be more aggressive but thinking about just our 'intelligence', we still have a long way to go in our own advancements. Simply being 'nice' to one another and let go of prejudices and our archaic thinking. However, the animal that we are at our core and our hierarchal thinking still dominates our society. Would we really want to meet another 'animal' like us? I don't think it would be a good idea personally.
    Last edited by N_LaRUE; 03-04-2014 at 07:10 AM.
    palandri likes this.
    03-04-2014 01:41 AM
  21. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    I watched Alien Planet Earth tonight on the Science channel in the states. It was an extremely interesting look at exoplanets.

    It all started in 1995 with the discovery of the first exoplanet and has exploded since the deployment of the Kepler telescope (see the chart below). Currently there's an estimated 11 billion habitable exoplanets in the Goldilocks zone within the Milky Way. This doesn't include potential habitable moons around exoplanets or any habitable exoplanets around red dwarfs stars. So that 11 billion habitable number could easily triple. Good stuff!
    I didn't watch that show, obviously but I do question that quantity. That's obviously an extroplated quantity so it is in no way exact and is a general guess. The universe as we know doesn't play by simple rules. It could be a lot less.

    Still, it is exciting to see us advancing this far and finding planets in other solar systems. That in itself is amazing when you think about it.
    palandri likes this.
    03-04-2014 01:53 AM
  22. palandri's Avatar
    I didn't watch that show, obviously but I do question that quantity. That's obviously an extroplated quantity so it is in no way exact and is a general guess. The universe as we know doesn't play by simple rules. It could be a lot less.

    Still, it is exciting to see us advancing this far and finding planets in other solar systems. That in itself is amazing when you think about it.
    It could a lot less, or it could be a lot more.

    I wish they would have explained why the numbers didn't include potential habitable exoplanets around red dwarf stars. If I recall correctly, I think they said red dwarf stars out number other stars 3:1. Maybe it's too hard to see exoplanets going in front of red dwarfs with the Kepler telescope. I don't know.

    Both Phil Plaitt and Michelle Thaller played a pretty big role in show. I am really starting to like Michelle Thaller, she has a way of really simplifying things, not over simplifying, but making things easier to understand.

    They also talked a little bit about SETI towards the end of the show. For some reason and I have nothing to back it up, but I would think if they put a SETI dish outside the atmosphere and magnetic field of earth they would hear a lot more. I just think the atmosphere and magnetic field is blocking potential contact.
    03-04-2014 07:34 AM
  23. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    It could a lot less, or it could be a lot more.
    It's a lot of counting either way.

    I wish they would have explained why the numbers didn't include potential habitable exoplanets around red dwarf stars. If I recall correctly, I think they said red dwarf stars out number other stars 3:1. Maybe it's too hard to see exoplanets going in front of red dwarfs with the Kepler telescope. I don't know.
    I did some quick research. I think part of the problem with red dwarfs is that they are unsure if life is really possible around them or not and at what distance. It's because the sun is colder than our own.

    Both Phil Plaitt and Michelle Thaller played a pretty big role in show. I am really starting to like Michelle Thaller, she has a way of really simplifying things, not over simplifying, but making things easier to understand.

    They also talked a little bit about SETI towards the end of the show. For some reason and I have nothing to back it up, but I would think if they put a SETI dish outside the atmosphere and magnetic field of earth they would hear a lot more. I just think the atmosphere and magnetic field is blocking potential contact.
    I think I've seen Michelle before on another program. She is pretty good.

    I think you might be right about SETI but then we don't really know. It's one of those things. Sound waves take as long as light to reach anywhere. So we could have easily missed earlier broadcasts or they simply haven't reached us yet. Whole societies could have easily disappeared by now if they had broadcast anything.

    Have you ever seen the movie Contact? It's rather interesting and sort of deals with these ideas. It's written by Carl Sagan, well the book was, the film was adapted from it. It's also severely simplified in the movie. Carl was a big believer in manned space exploration.
    palandri likes this.
    03-04-2014 08:12 AM
  24. palandri's Avatar
    ...Have you ever seen the movie Contact? It's rather interesting and sort of deals with these ideas. It's written by Carl Sagan, well the book was, the film was adapted from it. It's also severely simplified in the movie. Carl was a big believer in manned space exploration.
    Yup, I saw it in 1997 when it first hit the movie theaters.
    N_LaRUE likes this.
    03-04-2014 08:30 AM
  25. bayanii's Avatar
    man..
    03-05-2014 05:25 AM
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