Rethinking History

[N_LaRUE]

But what is intelligence? At the most basic meaning, isn't intelligence simply the ability to recognize and solve problems for the immediate benefit of the individual and, later, the benefit of the species? If you accept that definition, then intelligent life has flourished on Earth, and just might as well be flourishing elsewhere in the cosmos at the same level of intensity.

Well, yes that is a basic definition of intelligence, some say that simply recognizing your reflection is a sign of intelligence because you have a definition of 'self'. Intelligence can mean many things. A single bee might not be very smart, but a swarm could be very intelligent, group think is what it's often referred to. That's why I said, what is your definition of intelligent life? If it means 'similar to humans' then I think, going by our own world, that percentage is very low, like 50%. If by simply sentient beings, then I think very high.

I really like your "new" solar system position. Not many people mention that what we observe at great distances is merely a reflection of light, of which the reflective source might no longer still be there. Awesome! But, might their be non-planet bound intelligent life out there??? Just throwing that out there. Great conversation, by the way.

If you're referring to beings who may have boarded a ship and are roaming the universe then, yes that's possible. Thing is they would have to have very advanced systems to survive in such a harsh environment. Not saying it isn't possible but that is quite a stretch for us to think at this stage. The beings would have to evolve to deal with the environment if they don't have those systems. We already know from our own experiences that surviving in space for any length of time has detrimental effects on our bodies. Is it possible to procreate in zero gravity? Can you survive in a recycled air system without encountering disease? What happens if disease breaks out. These are the things that cross my mind when I think of long length space travel. So much can go wrong. Star Trek makes it looks simple.

 

[Scienceguy Labs]

Well, yes that is a basic definition of intelligence, some say that simply recognizing your reflection is a sign of intelligence because you have a definition of 'self'. Intelligence can mean many things. A single bee might not be very smart, but a swarm could be very intelligent, group think is what it's often referred to. That's why I said, what is your definition of intelligent life? If it means 'similar to humans' then I think, going by our own world, that percentage is very low, like 50%. If by simply sentient beings, then I think very high.



If you're referring to beings who may have boarded a ship and are roaming the universe then, yes that's possible. Thing is they would have to have very advanced systems to survive in such a harsh environment. Not saying it isn't possible but that is quite a stretch for us to think at this stage. The beings would have to evolve to deal with the environment if they don't have those systems. We already know from our own experiences that surviving in space for any length of time has detrimental effects on our bodies. Is it possible to procreate in zero gravity? Can you survive in a recycled air system without encountering disease? What happens if disease breaks out. These are the things that cross my mind when I think of long length space travel. So much can go wrong. Star Trek makes it looks simple.

Totally agree. I get irritated sometimes when the only view of ET intelligent life presented is humanoid. Very small chance of bumping into another human...probably safe to say a zero chance.

Not so much Star Trek: Enterprise, but more of a non-humanoid intelligent life existing in the realms of the universe we haven't observed or understand. Kind of like your bee example....group thinking life in space. You're right though, I've just finished a marathon of all four seasons of Enterprise. ha ha
Now the real question is: Do we really want to meet another form of intelligent life on par with us, assuming we can truly be called intelligent? lol

 

[Scienceguy Labs]

And as far as long-term travel in deep space....I'm not sure we will be doing that for quite some time for all your reasons and more. Most likely we will be using drones and other mechanized forms of space travel...I'm just repeating what Phil Plaitt once said in a debate with Neil DeGrasse Tyson. I have no way of knowing what's ahead, but it seems logical to send "robots" out there first. Although I do love the romanticized portrayal of space travel found in Enterprise and TNG. I am somewhat curious about this Mars "reality" show though.

 

[muneshyne21]

I think the Mars reality TV show sounds like a horrible idea unless it is funded and coordinated by NASA. The first people that get to mars are trying to limit drama not create it for entertainment. With enough money thrown at the situation and greedy entertainment people at the helm, they could sabotage the mission to no extent just by deliberately choosing the wrong people to go. In essence, a successful mission should be completely uneventful and boring (Kinda like how the NASA channel can be). The only people cheering and hollering should be the scientist on earth reviewing the data collected. I can only imagine the takeoff and decent being ridiculously dramatized.

 

[palandri]

I think the Mars reality TV show sounds like a horrible idea unless it is funded and coordinated by NASA. The first people that get to mars are trying to limit drama not create it for entertainment. With enough money thrown at the situation and greedy entertainment people at the helm, they could sabotage the mission to no extent just by deliberately choosing the wrong people to go. In essence, a successful mission should be completely uneventful and boring (Kinda like how the NASA channel can be). The only people cheering and hollering should be the scientist on earth reviewing the data collected. I can only imagine the takeoff and decent being ridiculously dramatized.

What??? You don't like the idea of the Kardashians on Mars? Kim in a corner crying, I want to go home. :grin:

 

[muneshyne21]

...zero gravity Kim K. booty...hmmmmmmmmm. Oh...sorry...what were we talking about again? Somethin about Spaceballs and Mike Tyson...?

 

[muneshyne21]

Totally agree. I get irritated sometimes when the only view of ET intelligent life presented is humanoid. Very small chance of bumping into another human...probably safe to say a zero chance.

Not so much Star Trek: Enterprise, but more of a non-humanoid intelligent life existing in the realms of the universe we haven't observed or understand. Kind of like your bee example....group thinking life in space. You're right though, I've just finished a marathon of all four seasons of Enterprise. ha ha
Now the real question is: Do we really want to meet another form of intelligent life on par with us, assuming we can truly be called intelligent? lol

Ahhhh so you are a Star Wars Space guy then? I am but I also just finished up the Enterprise series on Netflix. I think the shows demise had to do with that mood killing, cheesy opening song..."ITS BEEN A LOOOONG TIME..."
Start trek loved anthropomorphic beings with all the qualities of a human plus a few ridges on their nose, pointy ears, or blue skin. Star Wars varied the definition of an intelligent being a little more. They usually tended to have two arms and two eyes but at least you have a huge space slug as a crime lord and a blue elephant that's a kick *** piano player. Enterprise actually went the furthest of the Star Trek world with those manatee guys and big flys.

 

[palandri]

I watched Alien Planet Earth tonight on the Science channel in the states. It was an extremely interesting look at exoplanets.

It all started in 1995 with the discovery of the first exoplanet and has exploded since the deployment of the Kepler telescope (see the chart below). Currently there's an estimated 11 billion habitable exoplanets in the Goldilocks zone within the Milky Way. This doesn't include potential habitable moons around exoplanets or any habitable exoplanets around red dwarfs stars. So that 11 billion habitable number could easily triple. Good stuff!

 

[Scienceguy Labs]

Ahhhh so you are a Star Wars Space guy then? I am but I also just finished up the Enterprise series on Netflix. I think the shows demise had to do with that mood killing, cheesy opening song..."ITS BEEN A LOOOONG TIME..."
Start trek loved anthropomorphic beings with all the qualities of a human plus a few ridges on their nose, pointy ears, or blue skin. Star Wars varied the definition of an intelligent being a little more. They usually tended to have two arms and two eyes but at least you have a huge space slug as a crime lord and a blue elephant that's a kick *** piano player. Enterprise actually went the furthest of the Star Trek world with those manatee guys and big flys.

Ha ha. Yeah, I never could get into that song. I had to skip it every time. lol I did find myself liking all the Enterprise characters though, more so than any other SciFi series I have seen. Although The Next Generation's characters are a close second. I did get tired of all the humanoid characters with multiple ears or noses, etc. Kind of unimaginative.
Ha ha....but I guess the Cosmos would be a helluva a lot cooler place if we could party down on Tattooine with Lando and Han kicking out some karaoke duets.

 

[N_LaRUE]

Totally agree. I get irritated sometimes when the only view of ET intelligent life presented is humanoid. Very small chance of bumping into another human...probably safe to say a zero chance.

Agree totally.

Not so much Star Trek: Enterprise, but more of a non-humanoid intelligent life existing in the realms of the universe we haven't observed or understand. Kind of like your bee example....group thinking life in space. You're right though, I've just finished a marathon of all four seasons of Enterprise. ha ha
Now the real question is: Do we really want to meet another form of intelligent life on par with us, assuming we can truly be called intelligent? lol

Now when I first read this I couldn't help but thinking of some sort of alien plankton wandering through the depths of space as if it were an ocean. I guess it didn't help that I read an article prior to this about scientist wanting to view the universe in a fluid like form. Of course the problem with this idea is how it could happen in the first place.

You hit upon a point that's been made by many and I think even Stephen Hawking made this point. Do we really want to meet another race that is similar to us or even worse, more advanced? That's not to say they'd be more aggressive but thinking about just our 'intelligence', we still have a long way to go in our own advancements. Simply being 'nice' to one another and let go of prejudices and our archaic thinking. However, the animal that we are at our core and our hierarchal thinking still dominates our society. Would we really want to meet another 'animal' like us? I don't think it would be a good idea personally.

 

[N_LaRUE]

I watched Alien Planet Earth tonight on the Science channel in the states. It was an extremely interesting look at exoplanets.

It all started in 1995 with the discovery of the first exoplanet and has exploded since the deployment of the Kepler telescope (see the chart below). Currently there's an estimated 11 billion habitable exoplanets in the Goldilocks zone within the Milky Way. This doesn't include potential habitable moons around exoplanets or any habitable exoplanets around red dwarfs stars. So that 11 billion habitable number could easily triple. Good stuff!

I didn't watch that show, obviously but I do question that quantity. That's obviously an extroplated quantity so it is in no way exact and is a general guess. The universe as we know doesn't play by simple rules. It could be a lot less.

Still, it is exciting to see us advancing this far and finding planets in other solar systems. That in itself is amazing when you think about it.

 

[palandri]

I didn't watch that show, obviously but I do question that quantity. That's obviously an extroplated quantity so it is in no way exact and is a general guess. The universe as we know doesn't play by simple rules. It could be a lot less.

Still, it is exciting to see us advancing this far and finding planets in other solar systems. That in itself is amazing when you think about it.

It could a lot less, or it could be a lot more.

I wish they would have explained why the numbers didn't include potential habitable exoplanets around red dwarf stars. If I recall correctly, I think they said red dwarf stars out number other stars 3:1. Maybe it's too hard to see exoplanets going in front of red dwarfs with the Kepler telescope. I don't know.

Both Phil Plaitt and Michelle Thaller played a pretty big role in show. I am really starting to like Michelle Thaller, she has a way of really simplifying things, not over simplifying, but making things easier to understand.

They also talked a little bit about SETI towards the end of the show. For some reason and I have nothing to back it up, but I would think if they put a SETI dish outside the atmosphere and magnetic field of earth they would hear a lot more. I just think the atmosphere and magnetic field is blocking potential contact.

 

[N_LaRUE]

It could a lot less, or it could be a lot more.

It's a lot of counting either way. :winktongue:

I wish they would have explained why the numbers didn't include potential habitable exoplanets around red dwarf stars. If I recall correctly, I think they said red dwarf stars out number other stars 3:1. Maybe it's too hard to see exoplanets going in front of red dwarfs with the Kepler telescope. I don't know.

I did some quick research. I think part of the problem with red dwarfs is that they are unsure if life is really possible around them or not and at what distance. It's because the sun is colder than our own.

Both Phil Plaitt and Michelle Thaller played a pretty big role in show. I am really starting to like Michelle Thaller, she has a way of really simplifying things, not over simplifying, but making things easier to understand.

They also talked a little bit about SETI towards the end of the show. For some reason and I have nothing to back it up, but I would think if they put a SETI dish outside the atmosphere and magnetic field of earth they would hear a lot more. I just think the atmosphere and magnetic field is blocking potential contact.

I think I've seen Michelle before on another program. She is pretty good.

I think you might be right about SETI but then we don't really know. It's one of those things. Sound waves take as long as light to reach anywhere. So we could have easily missed earlier broadcasts or they simply haven't reached us yet. Whole societies could have easily disappeared by now if they had broadcast anything.

Have you ever seen the movie Contact? It's rather interesting and sort of deals with these ideas. It's written by Carl Sagan, well the book was, the film was adapted from it. It's also severely simplified in the movie. Carl was a big believer in manned space exploration.

 

[palandri]

...Have you ever seen the movie Contact? It's rather interesting and sort of deals with these ideas. It's written by Carl Sagan, well the book was, the film was adapted from it. It's also severely simplified in the movie. Carl was a big believer in manned space exploration.

Yup, I saw it in 1997 when it first hit the movie theaters.

 

[bayanii]

Reviving Extinct Species

This is interesting: De-Extinction - Bringing Extinct Species Back to Life - Pictures, News, TEDx Conference

man..

 

[N_LaRUE]

man..

Very insightful post. Thank you for your contribution.

 

[muneshyne21]

Even if you took the Keplar exoplanet estimate with a grain of salt, you are still talking about...millions of planets in our galaxy among the billions of galaxies. Still pretty damn good odds.

 

[mjrtoo]

We'll never know, at the rate our species is killing each other off we'll be lucky to send a man to Mars before we all die.

 

[palandri]

There's a neat looking series starting Sunday in the states called, "Cosmos: A SPACETIME ODYSSEY" http://www.cosmosontv.com Hosted by Neil DeGrasse Tyson

 

[bayanii]

Very insightful post. Thank you for your contribution.

Lol. Sorry, but it was just a very interesting read. I really had nothing to say at that point in time. The article had me going back and forth with the idea of meddling with de-extinction. All had great points. How animals effect certain habitats. If the species does play an imperative role, then I say yes bring it back. In retrospect, they were discussing about how the environments have totally changed since then. For instance the mammoths. Earths ecosystem has changed so much since their existence. Would their biology survive the new? It would be awesome to see one. Damn! I really don't have much knowledge on this subject, so bare with my insights. I'm simply going on what I've read and my opinions are completely bias. It is really amazing on what we have accomplished thus far. What would be really awesome? Marylin Monroe. Shoot. Lol.