03-05-2014 12:08 PM
30 12
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  1. bsayegh's Avatar
    I know this might sound like crazy conspiracy theory stuff, but I feel like Google intentionally causes issues with IE just to make people turn away from it. At the very least, I think Google exclusively tests their websites with Chrome and doesn't even run a quick passthrough with IE.

    Here is a list of problems I have on Google sites that only happens with IE.

    1. Browser history doesn't work on Youtube. After watching a video, I click the back button and it takes me down to the comments section. If I click back again, it takes me to two places back in my history. For instance, if I have watched 2 videos already and am now on the third one, hitting back once will take me to the comment section, and twice will takes me to the first video I watched. There is no way for me to get back to the second video.

    2. Gmail wont load sometimes. Generally I don't have an issue with Gmail, but there have been times where it just doesn't load. It will sit on the loading screen and just spin. I can close my browser and try again and it doesn't work. It almost seems like the site is down, but if open FireFox it works totally fine.

    3. I will get randomly logged out of gchat. If I am logged in to Gmail, I can be having a conversation with someone for an hour and then just suddenly get logged out, or it will keep saying my last comment didn't get sent. I will refresh the page and be logged back in, and then a few minutes later get logged out again.

    4. Google.com doesn't always search dynamically. Google usually searches as you type in the search box. Sometimes it works nicely, other times it doesn't. Sometimes I will start typing and it will take me to the search results screen with a message that says that I have to click search to actually search. I haven't had that issue with any other browser. The message doesn't even show up if it is searching as you type, which tells me it is something intentional. Like if they know you have been typing and they are telling you that you have to click the search button, why cant they just automatically search?

    Has anyone else noticed the issues? Am I just being paranoid or do you think Google is trying to get people off of IE in an underhanded way?
    xandros9 likes this.
    02-28-2014 10:30 AM
  2. jmshub's Avatar
    The say don't accuse malice when stupidity would suffice. But, Google has been doing plenty of things against Microsoft, that have been proven. Like when they were watching for Windows Phone user agent and blocking maps. It's really possible that it's a lot of coincidental stuff, but I think Google is playing dirty against Microsoft.
    02-28-2014 12:29 PM
  3. bsayegh's Avatar
    Intentionally including bugs for IE users is like if Windows intentionally caused memory spikes and poor performance whenever it detected the Chrome was running. Nobody would stand for that.
    02-28-2014 12:43 PM
  4. micallan_17's Avatar
    I only use Google for work other than that am pure Microsoft

    Posted not from Android!
    02-28-2014 07:46 PM
  5. maclancer's Avatar
    Also sometimes if you watch a YouTube video on Windows Phone, it will give you some errors. Not always happen, it depends... And using IE to watch it.
    02-28-2014 08:00 PM
  6. gedzum's Avatar
    Yeah Youtube is becoming really frustrating. It's reached the point where I watch it less and less and I'm moving more towards Twitch and Netflix. Services that actually work for me with little fuss.
    03-01-2014 02:06 AM
  7. TechAbstract's Avatar
    Back button on WP sometimes doesn't work on Youtube website.
    03-01-2014 02:15 AM
  8. jojoe42's Avatar
    Also the Google Maps UI in the web is horrifically archaic. It's the interface they use for feature phones!!!
    03-01-2014 02:44 AM
  9. SnailUK's Avatar
    Youtube on an iphone or iPad directs you to a mobile site, yet WP goes to the desktop site. Deliberate by Google IMHO. The browser identification string for WP has the words Mobile & Phone in it, so there. Is no excuse.

    Sent from my RM-821_eu_euro1_342 using Tapatalk
    03-01-2014 10:28 AM
  10. bsayegh's Avatar
    Youtube on an iphone or iPad directs you to a mobile site, yet WP goes to the desktop site. Deliberate by Google IMHO. The browser identification string for WP has the words Mobile & Phone in it, so there. Is no excuse.

    Sent from my RM-821_eu_euro1_342 using Tapatalk
    Are you sure? YouTube redirects correctly on my phone and when setting desktop IE to WP mode. I am pretty convinced there is something going on. Sometimes I look for code in the source that checks for the browser, but nothing so far.
    03-01-2014 02:32 PM
  11. stalemate1's Avatar
    I've experienced that Bing maps load much quicker than google maps on chrome lol

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    03-04-2014 02:14 AM
  12. a5cent's Avatar
    but I feel like Google intentionally causes issues with IE just to make people turn away from it.
    It's not quit like that. Whenever a browser connects one of Google's servers, imagine them doing a test similar to the following:

    if (client browser = "Chrome" OR client browser = "Safari") serve Version X of this website
    if (client browser = "mobile Chrome" OR client browser = "mobile Safari") serve Version Y of this website
    if (client browser = "any other desktop browser") serve Version Z of this website
    if (client browser = "any other mobile browser") serve crappiest imaginable version of this website

    That is obviously omitting a couple dozen tests, but conceptually it's something like that. Notice how there is no mention of anything IE in there? So, at least technically, Google isn't singling out IE at all. The results just sometimes look like that is what Google is doing. :-/
    Last edited by a5cent; 03-04-2014 at 04:18 AM. Reason: spelling
    03-04-2014 03:20 AM
  13. Dave Bhullar's Avatar
    I don't think the idea is too far-fetched. We already know how google made sure WP users don't get any official YouTube app. Its plausible that they make their services "optimized" just for chrome, they also advertise that chrome is the best for using any google services. So it might not be true that they are intentionally making things run worse on IE but its possible that they make things run better on chrome and never bother to check if IE can run it as well or not. I'd actually bet on the latter.
    03-04-2014 03:57 AM
  14. IlkkaV's Avatar
    Google+ is yet another example. Google won't provide an official app (no surprise here), but they're also hampering the user experience on the mobile site. If you use the mobile site with a Windows Phone, the Communities feature is missing from the site menu (and Communities is by far the most interesting feature there at least for me), but for other platforms it's there. You can also experiment with a desktop browser and a user agent switcher. Just select a WP7 or WP8 UA string and the link is missing from the menu, but with any other mobile platform it's there.

    This combined with the earlier somewhat similar breaking of Google Maps for WP users my vote goes to "Oh yes they are".
    03-04-2014 04:33 AM
  15. jmshub's Avatar
    It's not quit like that. Whenever a browser connects one of Google's servers, imagine them doing a test similar to the following:

    if (client browser = "Chrome" OR client browser = "Safari") serve Version X of this website
    if (client browser = "mobile Chrome" OR client browser = "mobile Safari") serve Version Y of this website
    if (client browser = "any other desktop browser") serve Version Z of this website
    if (client browser = "any other mobile browser") serve crappiest imaginable version of this website

    That is obviously omitting a couple dozen tests, but conceptually it's something like that. Notice how there is no mention of anything IE in there? So, at least technically, Google isn't singling out IE at all. The results just sometimes look like that is what Google is doing. :-/
    It's possible. But remember with GMaps, it was actually singling out Windows Phone. Normal Windows Phone users could not see Google Maps. fIf users with the ability changed their user agent to report Windows Phoen, the site loaded properly. Google was actually actively blocking WinPhone.
    03-04-2014 10:14 AM
  16. a5cent's Avatar
    It's possible. But remember with GMaps, it was actually singling out Windows Phone. Normal Windows Phone users could not see Google Maps. fIf users with the ability changed their user agent to report Windows Phoen, the site loaded properly. Google was actually actively blocking WinPhone.
    Well, over 95% of mobile web traffic stems from webkit based browsers... mobile Chrome, mobile Safari, BB10's browser.... they are all the same thing.

    The remaining 5% is largely mobile IE.

    From Google's point of view, they are making a justified special effort for their own browser, and treating everyone else equally.... it's just that for the mobile web, 'everyone else' boils down to almost nobody but mobile IE.
    03-04-2014 11:24 AM
  17. Reflexx's Avatar
    Well, over 95% of mobile web traffic stems from webkit based browsers... mobile Chrome, mobile Safari, BB10's browser.... they are all the same thing.

    The remaining 5% is largely mobile IE.

    From Google's point of view, they are making a justified special effort for their own browser, and treating everyone else equally.... it's just that for the mobile web, 'everyone else' boils down to almost nobody but mobile IE.
    Though in the past, when MS controlled the browser market, such a move would have been considered anti-competitive.

    IE supports features that have been established as web standards.
    03-04-2014 11:48 AM
  18. a5cent's Avatar
    Though in the past, when MS controlled the browser market, such a move would have been considered anti-competitive.

    IE supports features that have been established as web standards.
    Yeah. I wonder what the people who went after MS back then think about the current situation. Was it wrong to prosecute MS then? Should they be prosecuting Google now? Is there a double standard? Rightly? Wrongly?

    IMHO the technologies that form the backbone of the internet are far too important to be in the hands of a single company. I view them as the world's first global utility. I think the situation with MS was handled poorly, but what a better solution looks like is up for debate.
    03-04-2014 12:22 PM
  19. IlkkaV's Avatar
    From Google's point of view, they are making a justified special effort for their own browser, and treating everyone else equally.... it's just that for the mobile web, 'everyone else' boils down to almost nobody but mobile IE.
    WP would be better off if Google did only that, i.e. just optimized for their own browser. However, as e.g. the Google+ functionality points out, they're not just leaving IE unsupported with "this is what works with webkit, see what works for you", but they're actually deliberately breaking the site and making the experience worse for those whose browsers report themselves as IE for Windows Phone.That's despicable and low. Google specifically discourages user agent checks and recommends checking for features instead, but apparently best practices don't apply to themselves when there's competition to undercut.
    03-04-2014 12:37 PM
  20. a5cent's Avatar
    ^ Interesting. What UA strings, specifically for mobile browsers, did you test with besides chrome, safari and IE?
    03-04-2014 02:12 PM
  21. xandros9's Avatar
    If you want to check it out, use the F12 Dev Tools to change the UA of IE to something like Chrome to see if anything's different.
    03-04-2014 02:22 PM
  22. IlkkaV's Avatar
    ^ Interesting. What UA strings, specifically for mobile browsers, did you test with besides chrome, safari and IE?
    I installed User Agent Switcher add-on to desktop Chrome and checked iOS, Android, and WP7 UA's there. I also added a WP8 UA "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 10.0; Windows Phone 8.0; Trident/6.0; IEMobile/10.0; ARM; Touch; NOKIA; Lumia 920)" there, and the end result was the same as in WP7.
    03-04-2014 02:26 PM
  23. bsayegh's Avatar
    To some degree I believe that they target webkit browsers and just let IE either succeed or fail on their own. Last night, however, I had an issue on youtube that I have never seen and it kind of leads me back to my original "anti-IE" conspiracy theory. I was watching a video and I clicked on the Youtube home link, and it didn't do anything. I clicked it several times. I started the debugger but pretty much got lost in a sea of minified code (even after formatting the code it was hard to figure out what was going on).

    The home link shouldn't do anything other than take you back home, should it? Maybe they record some metrics before you leave or something, but that link should work. I refuse to believe they are using some link that is so fancy that it works in a webkit browser and it doesn't work in IE.
    03-04-2014 02:40 PM
  24. Reflexx's Avatar
    Remember when people were up in arms about MS making their own branch of Java? Java was just so limited. But because of the backlash, MS left Java and created C#.

    But here is Google trying to pretty much take over the web and people fall right in line.
    03-04-2014 03:52 PM
  25. a5cent's Avatar
    I installed User Agent Switcher add-on to desktop Chrome and checked iOS, Android, and WP7 UA's there. I also added a WP8 UA "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 10.0; Windows Phone 8.0; Trident/6.0; IEMobile/10.0; ARM; Touch; NOKIA; Lumia 920)" there, and the end result was the same as in WP7.
    Well you see, this is my point. That doesn't necessarily mean Google is singling out IE. You would have also had to test a few other non-webkit based mobile browsers, like Opera. Only if they also all worked correctly, could we start suspecting IE is being singled out for 'special treatment'.

    Based on those tests, I'd suspect Google does the same thing they do on their other sites...

    "this is what works with webkit, see what works for you"

    I'm not saying you are wrong. You could be right. We just need be careful before going too far with accusations.

    I refuse to believe they are using some link that is so fancy that it works in a webkit browser and it doesn't work in IE.
    That I wouldn't believe either. Strange...
    Last edited by a5cent; 03-04-2014 at 05:35 PM.
    03-04-2014 04:51 PM
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