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03-16-2014 08:42 PM
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  1. Fade_z's Avatar
    Perhaps Putin is ready to meet his fate.
    Or the U.S.A, maybe because there is a flipside to this story and that is the one where America should stay the fudge out of?
    k0de likes this.
    03-07-2014 06:19 PM
  2. Fade_z's Avatar
    Well I have read through the last 3 pages (which was a rather painful experience) and i must say that i just cannot believe the amount of ignorance from some users.

    If you are not well informed, don't bother sharing your opinion in the first place.
    k0de likes this.
    03-07-2014 06:25 PM
  3. k0de's Avatar
    Or the U.S.A, maybe because there is a flipside to this story and that is the one where America should stay the fudge out of?
    What's the flip side that the world is not aware of?
    03-07-2014 06:29 PM
  4. k0de's Avatar
    Well I have read through the last 3 pages (which was a rather painful experience) and i must say that i just cannot believe the amount of ignorance from some users.

    If you are not well informed, don't bother sharing your opinion in the first place.
    Correct. This is politics thus no one is well informed. This is all based on opinions.

    Are you a politician? If you are what union do you belong to?
    WasteSomeTime likes this.
    03-07-2014 06:32 PM
  5. k0de's Avatar
    Or the U.S.A, maybe because there is a flipside to this story and that is the one where America should stay the fudge out of?
    Something for your flip side. What's your flip side? Please give feedback.

    http://ht.cdn.turner.com/cnn/big/wor...x504_1850k.mp4
    03-07-2014 06:43 PM
  6. k0de's Avatar
    Obama is locked. If Putin does not withdrawal. Putin will be in the history books with the rest of the world known dictators. Putin still has a chance to retreat or be exterminated.

    Any one care to elaborate?
    03-07-2014 06:54 PM
  7. a5cent's Avatar
    Obama is locked. If Putin does not withdrawal. Putin will be in the history books with the rest of the world known dictators. Putin still has a chance to retreat or be exterminated.

    Any one care to elaborate?
    No need to overdramatize the situation. No outside military will violently oppose Russia, at least not only over the annexation of Crimea.
    k0de likes this.
    03-07-2014 11:00 PM
  8. spazzmeister's Avatar
    Crimea belongs to Russia. It was illegally given to Ukraine by a Ukraine born Soviet president. What the hell does America need there anyway? Go drone strike some children in Pakistan please.

    WPC App for Android - Note 3
    k0de likes this.
    03-08-2014 07:36 AM
  9. a5cent's Avatar
    Crimea belongs to Russia. It was illegally given to Ukraine by a Ukraine born Soviet president. What the hell does America need there anyway? Go drone strike some children in Pakistan please.
    Not that I'm a expert, but everything I've ever read about Khrushchev stated he was Russian, not a Ukraine, although he was allegedly born close to the Ukraine border (see Wikipedia).

    Furthermore, as far as I know, there was nothing illegal about his 'redistricting' of Crimea. Ukraine and Russia were both part of the same country back then, so the transfer was little more than an administrative issue. So what exactly was illegal? Any sources?
    k0de likes this.
    03-08-2014 01:12 PM
  10. Fade_z's Avatar
    Something for your flip side. What's your flip side? Please give feedback.

    http://ht.cdn.turner.com/cnn/big/wor...x504_1850k.mp4
    They are reclaiming an government building, what's the problem?

    Should they have bombed like the Americans would have in such an scenario?
    k0de likes this.
    03-08-2014 06:26 PM
  11. Fade_z's Avatar
    What's the flip side that the world is not aware of?
    That this is an conflict on the "border" between Russia and Europe and they Will have to solve It without the cowboys breathing doen there necks?

    This small conflict is not in any way a threat to America and the people of The Ukraine can handle themselves just fine, and if not they will seek help from Europe or the Russians.
    k0de likes this.
    03-08-2014 06:29 PM
  12. Fade_z's Avatar
    Not that I'm a expert, but everything I've ever read about Khrushchev stated he was Russian, not a Ukraine, although he was allegedly born close to the Ukraine border (see Wikipedia).

    Furthermore, as far as I know, there was nothing illegal about his 'redistricting' of Crimea. Ukraine and Russia were both part of the same country back then, so the transfer was little more than an administrative issue. So what exactly was illegal? Any sources?
    They were part of an union and the borders where still there but under Soviet command from Moscow.

    One of the problems is that the Russians signed a treaty back in the 90's in which was stated The Ukraine could never be split or in any way divided.
    Then again treaty's don't hold any firm resolution against this problem.
    Neither if this is morally rightfully, its a decision I think should come from the people of crimea/The Ukraine
    k0de likes this.
    03-08-2014 06:34 PM
  13. a5cent's Avatar
    They were part of an union and the borders where still there but under Soviet command from Moscow.
    Yes, borders were still there, but the republics were definitely not individual countries. Just like in the United States, where the individual states aren't countries either. The Russian army would have marched into any republic that claimed such autonomy.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repub...e_Soviet_Union

    There is nothing illegal about redistricting on that scale. The country I live in would also have recently broken the law if it was. Again, are there any legitimate* sources that back up the claim of illegality?

    * Not Russian, elementary school, history textbooks. As we all know, the worst way to learn about any country's history is to read their own textbooks, which are always biased, but in the case of centrally controlled and more authoritarian countries like Russia, border on propaganda.

    One of the problems is that the Russians signed a treaty back in the 90's in which was stated The Ukraine could never be split or in any way divided.
    Then again treaty's don't hold any firm resolution against this problem.
    Neither if this is morally rightfully, its a decision I think should come from the people of crimea/The Ukraine
    I don't understand what problem you are referring to. Anyway, I agree that the people of Crimea deserve to vote on what country they want to belong to.

    HOWEVER, those people deserve an honest debate before making a decision. Currently, the Russian military is occupying the region and has forcefully replaced all pro-Western TV and radio broadcasting with pro-Russian broadcasting. Any election under such conditions is a farce.

    Get Ukraine to promise to hold such a vote within six months, leave the country, and get the U.N. involved to monitor the voting process. Then the world will respect the vote. As it is now, it's just a very cheap Russian power grab. At least that is how I see it.
    Last edited by a5cent; 03-08-2014 at 10:54 PM.
    k0de likes this.
    03-08-2014 09:45 PM
  14. Fade_z's Avatar
    Yes, borders were still there, but the republics were definitely not individual countries. Just like in the United States, where the individual states aren't countries either. The Russian army would have marched into any republic that claimed such autonomy.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repub...e_Soviet_Union

    There is nothing illegal about redistricting on that scale. The country I live in would also have recently broken the law if it was. Again, are there any legitimate* sources that back up the claim of illegality?

    * Not Russian, elementary school, history textbooks. As we all know, the worst way to learn about any country's history is to read their own textbooks, which are always biased, but in the case of centrally controlled and more authoritarian countries like Russia, border on propaganda.


    I don't understand what problem you are referring to. Anyway, I agree that the people of Crimea deserve to vote on what country they want to belong to.

    HOWEVER, those people deserve an honest debate before making a decision. Currently, the Russian military is occupying the region and has forcefully replaced all pro-Western TV and radio broadcasting with pro-Russian broadcasting. Any election under such conditions is a farce.

    Get Ukraine to promise to hold such a vote within six months, leave the country, and get the U.N. involved to monitor the voting process. Then the world will respect the vote. As it is now, it's just a very cheap Russian power grab. At least that is how I see it.
    Well maybe it is an power grab, also I didn't say the Russians during the soviet time couldn't march into any of their countries/states but I only said the borders still existed.

    Then again, most of us are far away from the conflict and really don't know the culture they have and how the conditions really are for the civi's in Crimea
    03-09-2014 04:23 AM
  15. LMZR's Avatar
    I hate seeing and hearing what is going on, i'm sure people have their own opinions, some here would be Pro-Ukraine, some would be Pro-Russian, I want to put this post as an insight, i have my own opinions, and i believe people can have their own opinions and shouldn't have their opinions manipulated simply because the majority disagrees (Unless his/her's opinions are rather unrealistic and stupid)

    I hate what's going on, i don't have any family background that relates to Ukraine, but i support the new Ukrainian government and i absloutely hate what Russia is doing, i think Putin believes he has an excuse to pull off what he did in Georgia, I feel that there are similarities between what happened between Georgia and Russia back in 2008 and what is currently happening between Ukraine and Russia now, i think Putin also want's his own Soviet Union rebirth, as after all, he was a high ranking figure in the KGB (right?), I don't think Russia is a federation, i wouldn't be too surprised that in ten-twenty years time we will have a second Soviet Union.

    To be honest, people say the Cold War ended in 1991, but with how relations are between Russia and all parties involved, i personally feel like the Cold War never really ended.

    Sorry if my post confuses somebody, it's late and i am tired. :\
    k0de likes this.
    03-09-2014 06:33 AM
  16. a5cent's Avatar
    Well maybe it is an power grab, also I didn't say the Russians during the soviet time couldn't march into any of their countries/states but I only said the borders still existed.
    Well, okay, but why don't you just make your point instead of just throwing out a fact that doesn't further the conversation? Yes, the borders between the republics existed. So? Countries all over the world redraw their internal boarders all the time. That isn't illegal anywhere else, so why should it be in Russia? Since nothing on the web supports the claim, and it apparently can't be backed up either, I'm going to call BS. More likely than not, it's just another propaganda line people are parroting without putting much thought into it.

    Then again, most of us are far away from the conflict and really don't know the culture they have and how the conditions really are for the civi's in Crimea
    That is true, and yet, I can't think of any situation where it would be wrong to allow Crimean's to vote on the issue. It is their future. They should have a say in it.

    What is wrong , is for such a vote to be pushed through in just a few days, by a foreign nation who themselves are anything but impartial, all the while occupying the region with 20'000 troops who will ultimately be the ones monitoring/controlling the voting process. Worst of all, those same troops have shut down all media broadcasts except what is officially condoned by Russia.

    Even if we know nothing about Crimea, the people that live there, or what they think, decent human beings should at least be able to agree that this is unacceptably wrong. Anyway, the international community obviously won't accept the outcome of any vote under such farcical conditions.
    Last edited by a5cent; 03-09-2014 at 01:27 PM.
    k0de likes this.
    03-09-2014 07:02 AM
  17. k0de's Avatar
    Yes, borders were still there, but the republics were definitely not individual countries. Just like in the United States, where the individual states aren't countries either. The Russian army would have marched into any republic that claimed such autonomy.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repub...e_Soviet_Union

    There is nothing illegal about redistricting on that scale. The country I live in would also have recently broken the law if it was. Again, are there any legitimate* sources that back up the claim of illegality?

    * Not Russian, elementary school, history textbooks. As we all know, the worst way to learn about any country's history is to read their own textbooks, which are always biased, but in the case of centrally controlled and more authoritarian countries like Russia, border on propaganda.


    I don't understand what problem you are referring to. Anyway, I agree that the people of Crimea deserve to vote on what country they want to belong to.

    HOWEVER, those people deserve an honest debate before making a decision. Currently, the Russian military is occupying the region and has forcefully replaced all pro-Western TV and radio broadcasting with pro-Russian broadcasting. Any election under such conditions is a farce.

    Get Ukraine to promise to hold such a vote within six months, leave the country, and get the U.N. involved to monitor the voting process. Then the world will respect the vote. As it is now, it's just a very cheap Russian power grab. At least that is how I see it.
    Agree! Crimea should a honest vote to decide which country they belong to.
    03-09-2014 08:16 AM
  18. Fade_z's Avatar
    Agree! Crimea should a honest vote to decide which country they belong to.
    And how do you know the "international community" (Better known as Western Europe and America) won't push the Crimean's into an pro-European decision/government?

    It's not like they all do this out of the kindness of their heart
    03-09-2014 10:23 AM
  19. Fade_z's Avatar
    Well, okay, but why don't you just make your point instead of just throwing out a fact that doesn't further the conversation? Yes, the borders between the republics existed. So? Countries all over the world redraw their internal boarders all the time. That isn't illegal anywhere else, so why should it be in Russia? Since nothing on the web supports the claim, and it apparently can't be backed up either, I'm going to call BS. More likely than not, it's just another propaganda line people are parroting without putting much thought into it.



    That is true, and yet, I can't think of any situation where it would be wrong to allow Crimean's to vote on the issue. It is their future. They should have a say in it.

    What is wrong , is for such a vote to be pushed through in just a few days, by a foreign nation who themselves are anything but impartial, all the while occupying the region with 20'000 troops who will ultimately be the ones monitoring/controlling the voting process. Worst of all, those same troops have shut down all media broadcasts except what is officially condoned by Russia.

    Even if we know nothing about Crimea, the people that live their, or what they think, decent human beings should at least be able to agree that this is unacceptably wrong. Anyway, the international community obviously won't accept the outcome of any vote under such farcical conditions.
    I think btw that the int. Community won't do anything of an noticeable impact if the vote succeeds like this.

    Like we didnt do anything about Georgia, or basically any conflict in which the opposing country is to powerful.

    And i'm not saying I agree with Russia, but there isn't anything we will or can do that will stop them from taking Crimea
    03-09-2014 10:30 AM
  20. a5cent's Avatar
    Like we didnt do anything about Georgia, or basically any conflict in which the opposing country is to powerful.
    And i'm not saying I agree with Russia, but there isn't anything we will or can do that will stop them from taking Crimea
    Yes, I already agreed that the West won't go to war with Russia over Crimea. But war is not the only option. If Europe were to stop importing Russian gas and oil, I think that would definitely make Putin rethink his position. Add to that a U.N. sanctioned trade embargo and I think that would already be pretty persuasive. If that still doesn't work, countries could further freeze the assets of the richest 500 Russian oligarchs. I'm pretty sure Putin's resistance would crumble in less than three seconds. The problem is that would hurt the West too, so the question is how important these things are to our governments compared to our economic interests.

    I suspect most of eastern Europe wants to send a message to Russia, telling them that it is no longer acceptable for Russia to meddle in their internal affairs. What western governments want I do not know, but either way, if Crimea does change hands, it will cost the Russians something.
    Last edited by a5cent; 03-09-2014 at 04:01 PM.
    03-09-2014 02:16 PM
  21. Fade_z's Avatar
    Yes, I already agreed that the West won't go to war with Russia over Crimea. But war is not the only option. If Europe were to stop importing Russian gas and oil, I think that would definitely make Putin rethink his position. Add to that a U.N. sanctioned trade embargo and I think that would already be pretty persuasive. If that still doesn't work, countries could further freeze the assets of the richest 500 Russian oligarchs. I'm pretty sure Putin's resistance would crumble in less than three seconds. The problem is that would hurt the West too, so the question is how important these things are to our governments compared to our economic interests.

    I suspect most of eastern Europe wants to send a message to Russia, telling them that it is no longer acceptable for Russia to meddle in their internal affairs. What western governments want I do not know, but either way, if Crimea does change hands, it will cost the Russians something.

    Keep in mind that Europe needs the oil and gas more then Russia needs the money
    And it won't cost them, they wouldn't have risked it otherwise.
    UN sanctions are pure BS, its not a spur of the moment decision putin made you know...

    And all Russia now really did was send troops and takeover outposts without killing anybody.
    And if you look around the internet that alot of people actually took pictures with Russian soldiers whilst posing, hugging or even kissing the soldiers, not something they would scene on such a scale.

    In my opinion only the ones involved could honestly judge the situation, face it most of us get our news from CNN or the BBC
    03-09-2014 05:11 PM
  22. a5cent's Avatar
    Keep in mind that Europe needs the oil and gas more then Russia needs the money
    Source, or it ain't so.

    UN sanctions are pure BS ...
    Tell that to the Russian Rubel that is already falling. It seems most of the world will be participating in further sanctions if necessary.

    And if you look around the internet that alot of people actually took pictures with Russian soldiers whilst posing, hugging or even kissing the soldiers, not something they would scene on such a scale.
    In "The Kreml Gazette", sure. What else would you expect? In more independent media, you get a less rosy picture.
    03-09-2014 05:47 PM
  23. Fade_z's Avatar
    Source, or it ain't so.



    Tell that to the Russian Rubel that is already falling. It seems most of the world will be participating in further sanctions if necessary.



    In "The Kreml Gazette", sure. What else would you expect? In more independent media, you get a less rosy picture.
    The dollar also plummeted and they are still around, its just not gonna help at all. Take my word on that, we'll see in the following weeks and months to follow
    03-10-2014 06:44 AM
  24. a5cent's Avatar
    Depends what you mean with "help". I would be surprised if Russia walked out of this without Crimea. I do think the international community will extract some concessions in exchange however. At least a few treaties and guarantees. That is what the rest of the world's involvement is about. Crimea is just the bargaining chip.

    Anyway, not all currency fluctuations are equal, so your comparison to the dollar in this case makes little sense, but I agree, we will see...

    Take care.
    Last edited by a5cent; 03-10-2014 at 11:42 AM.
    03-10-2014 11:31 AM
  25. spazzmeister's Avatar
    The actual "International Community" ie South America, Africa, Middle East and Asia do not care.
    Russia is walking away with Crimea from all of this. That is how negotiations will end. Europe (Oops, Germany) won't do anything because Big Brother America won't do anything.
    03-15-2014 12:39 PM
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