1. rhapdog's Avatar
    I never really thought about this before, but this thought occurred to me today, and I thought I'd share with the community here.

    Carriers are after one thing.

    Your money.

    That's the bottom line. If I'm not mistaken, all the carriers have a real incentive to steer people away from Windows Phone and to iPhone/Android. This same reasoning is a major factor on why I CHOSE Windows Phone over the others.

    Carriers are notorious for requiring you to have a Data plan if you have a smart phone. Why? Because smart phones CAN do it, so they want to force you to pay for it, even if you will only use data on WiFi. I know, most people want the data, right? I did, however, for many years I didn't buy a smart phone because I didn't want to pay for data.

    Now it also comes down to: "How much data will a user be needing, and does the phone choice make a difference on how much data that user will need?"

    You better believe that your choice of phone will determine how much data you are going to need. Windows Phone can handle tasks for most users on a month-to-month basis using less data. The Carriers know this, and they would prefer you choose a phone that requires more data, because that is more money for them. I believe the people in the carrier's stores are trained to steer people toward what is most profitable, which makes sense for a capitalistic company to do.

    Why do I say Windows Phone uses less data? Well, I suppose it all depends on how you use it, but, if you're like me, and you want to get directions to places often, then the choice of being able to download your maps and not needing a data connection while travelling and using GPS will save a lot of data.

    Another way I save a great deal of data is by listening to the local FM radio stations using my Windows Phone. No longer forced to listen to Pandora or other paid streaming services, I am saving the price of the subscription plus the price of the data that I don't have to use.

    Being able to tell it to update only on WiFi, having Internet Explorer set to compress images and save bandwidth again, etc. There are easy ways to save data.

    What if you don't want to get overage charges? The phone company wants you to have an overage charge, but Windows Phone makes it easy to not only monitor your usage in real time with Data Sense, but it is also extremely easy and convenient to turn the data on or off at your whim.

    One of the things I like about Windows Phone is that it is more respectful of your pocketbook when it comes to paying for data charges. Other smart phones don't really seem to care and have a "you're going to need data to get the most from this phone" attitude.

    Yes, there are ways to save on data using the other phone OSes on the market, however, none of them can give you as much savings and none of them make the savings as easy. For a carrier who makes their money by selling you the data plan, you know they have to hate that about Windows Phone.

    Let's face it. If you choose Windows Phone, the carrier may not be able to get as much out of you if you're a savvy user.

    Please let me know what you think, and share any other thoughts about how Windows Phone might cost the carrier money over other brands.
    12-10-2014 10:21 AM
  2. someone2639's Avatar
    It all makes sense now. But my local ATT store likes to promote Windows phone (2 sections for Windows phone.)
    12-10-2014 10:32 AM
  3. rhapdog's Avatar
    Wow. Wish more stores did that.

    My local ATT just had huge displays for iPhone, and a section for Android, with 2 Windows Phones on display in the back corner of the store. The other models were still in boxes in the back room.
    12-10-2014 10:40 AM
  4. nilchak's Avatar
    That's a very good analysis/ I like the real-world examples that you mentioned which actually help in saving data on the Windows phone.

    between myself and my wife we have a 10GB ATT data plan and we both used a Windows phone (she a 1520, me a 1020). Never did we even remotely reach the 10GB limit (it was max maybe 6 -7 GB).

    Then I switched to a OnePlus Android phone and bang - the very next month our data plan was touching 9.5 GB. I had to proactively avoid 4G on my Android phone for the last few days just to avoid the overage charge.

    So yes - this seems to be quite true.
    Actually your real world cases are so true, I wish the Windows Phone blogs metioned these points as a plus point of using Windows Phones.
    aximtreo and James8561 like this.
    12-10-2014 10:53 AM
  5. tgp's Avatar
    How far do we want to carry that concept? A friend of mine has an Android on a grandfathered Verizon plan with unlimited data. It's very easy on Android to bypass tethering restrictions, and he does so freely. He regularly uses 50 - 100GB/month, almost all of it via tethering. Are the carriers steering customers away from Android too?
    theefman likes this.
    12-10-2014 11:11 AM
  6. a5cent's Avatar
    From what I understand, the biggest factor in the U.S. is that store reps are "punished" for smartphone returns and WP devices have above average return rates (only at home do some buyers realize that app X is not available on WP and many have no interest in looking for alternatives). As a result, store reps shy away from recommending anything out of the mainstream. The second biggest factor is bias, meaning sales reps will tend to recommend what they themselves are most comfortable with, which rarely is WP. This is all decided on at the point of sales, not at corporate HQ.
    From a strategic perspective, most carriers are interested in OS providers and OEMs being as weak as possible, meaning it is in their best interest to have MS, Google and Apple evenly split the market between them. That gives carriers the most leverage when attempting to force concessions.
    I doubt the brass at any U.S. carrier is deliberately telling stores to push one OS over another.
    12-10-2014 11:12 AM
  7. rhapdog's Avatar
    How far do we want to carry that concept? A friend of mine has an Android on a grandfathered Verizon plan with unlimited data. It's very easy on Android to bypass tethering restrictions, and he does so freely. He regularly uses 50 - 100GB/month, almost all of it via tethering. Are the carriers steering customers away from Android too?
    It's as easy to bypass tethering restrictions on WP as on Android. Little app called TetherX does it quite nicely.

    Besides, you're speaking about a customer on a grandfathered plan. What Verizon would like to be able to do is to upgrade that person's plan so they are no longer on the unlimited plan. Phone won't make as much difference as the plan in a case like that.

    @a5cent: Very good points, well made, and well explained. Thank you for your input.

    I also think you have a point about the carriers would like to force all the OEMs to make concessions. It works in reverse with iPhone. The carriers have to make concessions in order to get the product their customers want. With WP, carriers force MS to make concessions, and certain carriers get special phones because of it. Rather lopsided.

    I'm hoping when Windows 10 rolls out to all devices (PC, tablets, phones) that it will give MS an edge to force carriers to make concessions, but I'm not holding my breath. Just think about the possibility of MS telling Best Buy and Walmart, "Hey, you want to sell a Windows Laptop, you have to promote our Windows Phone better than iPhone and Android." Abuse of MS position? Yep. But it's what Apple does already, and I think if MS were to be as brazen as Apple, they could eventually cut Apple to the core. (pun intended)

    Are brass at a US Carrier telling stores to push one OS over another? Probably not. However, there does seem to be incentive, between what I have mentioned with the data and what you have mentioned with the "returns" from people who probably thought they were getting an android and didn't understand the tiles.
    a5cent and Nicholas Maguire like this.
    12-10-2014 11:33 AM
  8. tgp's Avatar
    It's as easy to bypass tethering restrictions on WP as on Android. Little app called TetherX does it quite nicely.
    If that's the case then TetherX has been greatly simplified recently! The last I tried to use it, it was virtually impossible to set up. It also required a lot of setup on the PC bring tethered. Has that changed? With Tether-X you have to set up an ad-hoc network on your existing wireless network, among other things. How is that as easy as installing an app and turning on WiFi tether?

    Either way, you do have an interesting idea, but I very much doubt that data usage has anything to do with carriers pushing iOS and Android. I think a5cent nailed it. He said what I've heard too: return rate and familiarity.

    At this point Microsoft has no clout with carriers. WP sales are so insignificant that carriers would tell Microsoft where to put their phones if Microsoft tried to get Apple-esque. And in the Best Buy scenario, Best Buy could call Microsoft's bluff quite easily. Microsoft needs Best Buy. They need each other actually, but Microsoft would cave easily.
    Nicholas Maguire likes this.
    12-10-2014 11:42 AM
  9. rhapdog's Avatar
    "Microsoft would cave easily" as you say only because they have no backbone in these matters.

    Let's face it.. for every retailer, whether brick-and-mortar or online, if they sell desktop and laptops, would not be able to sell many if they could no longer sell MS products, but the retailer down the road did sell MS products. How many people would continue to frequent Best Buy when all they sold was either a chrome book or macbook, and Walmart had a full line down the road with Windows 10? Or they would go to Staples, Office Depot, etc. People will go where there is a larger selection.

    Still, the data savings for budget minded people is a good selling point that Microsoft could take advantage of in their advertising. Think of it, if they started advertising the data savings gained by downloadable maps, how long would it be before iPhone and Android copied that? I think it would be copied. Once copied, then WP can say, "yeah, but we did it first".
    12-10-2014 12:07 PM
  10. rhapdog's Avatar
    I always used TetherX with my wireless router in the house. By connecting my phone to the router (which had no internet access), then I just had to use the IP address assigned to my phone by the router for my proxy in my browser. No ad-hoc setup is required when you use that method. Quite easy, but it does take additional hardware.

    I also have a fairly simple CMD script that sets up and starts an ad-hoc server for TetherX to connect to. Makes it quite easy each time. Perhaps I need to set up a post on how to simplify TetherX usage, though I don't generally need it anymore since I have unlimited tethering included now.

    "Microsoft would cave easily" as you say only because they have no backbone in these matters.

    Let's face it.. for every retailer, whether brick-and-mortar or online, if they sell desktop and laptops, would not be able to sell many if they could no longer sell MS products, but the retailer down the road did sell MS products. How many people would continue to frequent Best Buy when all they sold was either a chrome book or macbook, and Walmart had a full line down the road with Windows 10? Or they would go to Staples, Office Depot, etc. People will go where there is a larger selection.

    Still, the data savings for budget minded people is a good selling point that Microsoft could take advantage of in their advertising. Think of it, if they started advertising the data savings gained by downloadable maps, how long would it be before iPhone and Android copied that? I think it would be copied. Once copied, then WP can say, "yeah, but we did it first".
    12-10-2014 12:10 PM
  11. theefman's Avatar
    I think this has been answered time and time again but the truth is always ignored. I see one simple reason: people don't want WP or Windows on tablets because they don't have what people want, and what people want is apps. That is the reality of today's smartphone user, they use apps to get everything done on their device and when they come to WP and they find those apps missing why will they want to buy it, or if they have bought already why would they keep it?

    The tragedy now is Microsoft engineered a good OS back in 2010 but since its release they have mismanaged, failed to advertise, failed to support and failed to be competitive and now 4+ years later WP is STILL lacking. And now today Microsoft themselves have now decided to focus on other platforms and even in areas where they could bring their own apps up to the level of the competition they have declined to do so. Cant expect a platform to grow under such circumstances.

    Yes we on this site like the platform and make excuses for its shortcomings but to an outside observer dispassionately assessing his options and having the desire to experience a modern smartphone platform WP will not and should not be an option.

    But I'm sure Windows 10 will fix everything.....
    12-10-2014 12:17 PM
  12. ACynicalLamp's Avatar
    Totally unfounded paranoid theory. The reason is much more obvious. People are stupid. The iPhone was first to market and became a status symbol, once all the cheap Android phones came out. If you couldn't get an iPhone, you got the iPhone knockoff. Not surprising that Android grew so fast. Now that the revolution is over and Android evolved into having its own unique flagships that people want it like an iPhone.
    Windows phone isn't what they want cause it was late to market, looks different, and lacks all those various fart noise applications. Maybe things will change with Windows 10, but we said that with WP 8 & 8.1/Cortana.
    12-10-2014 12:20 PM
  13. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I wouldn't go as far as to say there's a conspiracy to steer customers away from WP, but there is an unwritten rule about selling items that don't carry big incentives. Or at least, better incentives. In today's world it's all about numbers. Managers don't look at intangibles like repeat customers or even referrals. They're given a crash course on how to read a few lines on a P&L sheet and harp on certain numbers that make upper management happy. The number dujour that's being pushed nowadays is "average transaction price" which is about as useless as t**s on a bull. I wish there was a more sinister plot involved but it really is that simple.
    a5cent, Guytronic, tgp and 1 others like this.
    12-10-2014 12:38 PM
  14. tgp's Avatar
    I wouldn't go as far as to say there's a conspiracy to steer customers away from WP, but there is an unwritten rule about selling items that don't carry big incentives. Or at least, better incentives. In today's world it's all about numbers. Managers don't look at intangibles like repeat customers or even referrals. They're given a crash course on how to read a few lines on a P&L sheet and harp on certain numbers that make upper management happy. The number dujour that's being pushed nowadays is "average transaction price" which is about as useless as t**s on a bull. I wish there was a more sinister plot involved but it really is that simple.
    Hey, what's up with all this sensible logic you've been producing lately?
    12-10-2014 02:21 PM
  15. Visa Declined's Avatar
    Carriers don't care so much about which phone they sell you, what matters to them is you signing up for two years of service. That's where they get their money.

    There is no conspiracy by the carriers to keep Windows Phone down, carriers try to sell what the majority of people want, and if everyone wanted Windows Phones, they would keep them in stock.
    12-10-2014 02:43 PM
  16. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Hey, what's up with all this sensible logic you've been producing lately?
    Sheer stupidity. Disobeyed my cardiologist, tried to move the immovable object we always hear about and nearly blew out 2 of my groin stents. After a few days in the hospital, I had some time to reflect, as it were. From now on, you'll get mostly the kindler, gentler and more objective fatclue. Until the next ***** sends me into the depths of pissed I can only dream about.
    12-10-2014 03:01 PM
  17. dsimages's Avatar
    Here's a little flipside reverse psychology...

    Most of us think of supply and demand like this: I'm going to supply you a product or service at whatever price I want because you demand the product.

    Here is how I think of it in this situation: The consumer is demanding a product so I'm going to supply that product at a specific price, because I will move a large volume of that product.

    Why is the consumer demanding that product? Because Apple markets their product to the hilt and it consumes the minds of potential buyers. Android is doing the same. People are media consumption machines. Tossing around "we have over a million apps" catches peoples attention.

    I think everyone's posts contribute to why carriers supply one product over another. In its simplicity, companies want revenues. Demanding consumers + supplied product = revenues. Revenues (profitable)= business still in business.
    12-10-2014 10:25 PM

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