03-19-2018 08:20 PM
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  1. Jcmg62's Avatar
    My wife joined a new company last week, a large multinational, and was issued with a brand new Dell laptop with a pretty modern spec sheet.....core i5 CPU running at 2.6GHz, 8GB Ram. It's by no means an outdated machine that's been lying in a cupboard somewhere.

    But the thing is, it's running Windows 7. And still sitting on service pack 1.

    It's honestly like rewinding the clock 5 years when you open this thing up.

    Is Microsoft still selling Windows 7 licenses? Surely that can't be good for Windows 10.
    03-14-2018 02:36 AM
  2. Lee Power's Avatar
    Some companies haven't yet made the switch to Windows 10. The company I work for runs Windows 7 Enterprise but are currently rolling out Windows 10 devices across there European operations.
    jmshub, xandros9, Jcmg62 and 1 others like this.
    03-14-2018 04:17 AM
  3. Jcmg62's Avatar
    Some companies haven't yet made the switch to Windows 10. The company I work for runs Windows 7 Enterprise but are currently rolling out Windows 10 devices across there European operations.
    What surprised me is that it's not some cranky old PC that's had 5 previous users.....this is a brand new Dell laptop with 2017/18 hardware specs, which would suggest that Microsoft are still selling Windows 7 Licenses to the enterprise market.

    It's completely understandable that companies need time to move from one OS to another, and it's only right that MS continue to support Windows 7 for the next few years while that transitionsal period continues, but supporting existing equipment is one thing.....actively selling windows 7 machines is just crazy in 2018
    03-14-2018 06:34 AM
  4. fatclue_98's Avatar
    The company I work for has mostly Windows 10 for the administrative and accounting departments but we use 7 in management and engineering. We've found Cortana to be too much of a resource hog.
    libra89, xandros9 and Laura Knotek like this.
    03-14-2018 08:19 AM
  5. tgp's Avatar
    Is Microsoft still selling Windows 7 licenses?
    Yes there are still new computers available with Windows 7. Usually they'll have upgrade rights to Windows 10, but they are certainly still available. We still sell Windows 7 workstations occasionally when a customer requests it.
    03-14-2018 08:31 AM
  6. Jcmg62's Avatar
    Yes there are still new computers available with Windows 7. Usually they'll have upgrade rights to Windows 10, but they are certainly still available. We still sell Windows 7 workstations occasionally when a customer requests it.
    It's weird (and maybe it has something to do with the way her IT dept has set it up) but Windows 7 is running terribly on the machine. I mean, this thing has a very capable core i5....I think it's a 7600T....with 8GB of ram. It's basically twice as powerful as my surface pro 4 but it runs like a lame dog.

    You almost get the sense that any new hardware designed in the last 2-3 years is built specifically with Windows 10 in mind, so throwing W7 on it has just drowned the machine in an OS that it's not capable of optimising or running fluidly. It's almost like the old OS won't work with new hardware. Normally it's the other way round.....

    Or, as I mentioned earlier, her IT dept is just full of numbnuts who don't know how to set up a PC :)
    03-14-2018 11:43 AM
  7. tgp's Avatar
    It's weird (and maybe it has something to do with the way her IT dept has set it up) but Windows 7 is running terribly on the machine. I mean, this thing has a very capable core i5....I think it's a 7600T....with 8GB of ram. It's basically twice as powerful as my surface pro 4 but it runs like a lame dog.
    That would likely be due to driver issues. Can she run Windows Updates, or do they use WSUS?
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    03-14-2018 11:51 AM
  8. Jcmg62's Avatar
    That would likely be due to driver issues. Can she run Windows Updates, or do they use WSUS?
    Nah, it's totally locked down, she can't update a single thing, can't change a single setting, can't add any peripherals without consent from IT, etc, etc. The company employs best part of 300,000 employees glabally so I get the need for security, but they must lose literally hundreds of thousands of hours in manpower every month due to bad IT.

    Honestly, no exaggeration, it takes this thing like 5 minutes to start up and about 2 minutes to open Outlook. Opening a PDF virtually drags it to a standstill.
    03-14-2018 12:29 PM
  9. tgp's Avatar
    Honestly, no exaggeration, it takes this thing like 5 minutes to start up and about 2 minutes to open Outlook. Opening a PDF virtually drags it to a standstill.
    If they're paying her to sit there and wait, then I guess that's their problem!
    Jcmg62 likes this.
    03-14-2018 01:15 PM
  10. xandros9's Avatar
    What surprised me is that it's not some cranky old PC that's had 5 previous users.....this is a brand new Dell laptop with 2017/18 hardware specs, which would suggest that Microsoft are still selling Windows 7 Licenses to the enterprise market.

    It's completely understandable that companies need time to move from one OS to another, and it's only right that MS continue to support Windows 7 for the next few years while that transitionsal period continues, but supporting existing equipment is one thing.....actively selling windows 7 machines is just crazy in 2018
    It could've been that their IT department threw 7 on it for legacy reasons and had some volume licenses on hand!
    Laura Knotek, libra89 and Jcmg62 like this.
    03-14-2018 01:45 PM
  11. Jcmg62's Avatar
    It could've been that their IT department threw 7 on it for legacy reasons and had some volume licenses on hand!
    Altogether possible. My wife only ever uses her work laptop. When it comes to personal stuff like Amazon, web browsing, personal emails, etc she uses her iPhone. Windows 10 is literally alien to her. And I suspect she's not alone. I was in my local coffee shop last week and counted 8 out of 11 laptops being used were runnning W7. People, what the heck!!
    03-14-2018 01:56 PM
  12. MatthewR413's Avatar
    8+ windows laptops on a coffee shop? I don't remember the last time I saw that...
    03-14-2018 02:22 PM
  13. Jcmg62's Avatar
    8+ windows laptops on a coffee shop? I don't remember the last time I saw that...
    It's the only decent sized coffee shop with decent wifi and decent coffee...it's pretty much a hub for us local small business owners :)
    03-14-2018 02:26 PM
  14. tgp's Avatar
    It's the only decent sized coffee shop with decent wifi and decent coffee...it's pretty much a hub for us local small business owners :)
    I think what he meant is that it is surprising that there were that many customers using PCs rather than Macbooks.
    libra89 likes this.
    03-14-2018 02:41 PM
  15. Jcmg62's Avatar
    I think what he meant is that it is surprising that there were that many customers using PCs rather than Macbooks.
    Yup, totally get that :) The strange thing is that the majority of us in this particular small business group are 40+ years old and virtually eveyone is using Windows. We're recruiters, accountants, personal finance advisors, etc and Windows seems to be the go-to platform because it's familiar to us and our clients.

    I think if we were young, hip website developers and marketing execs there might be more macbooks in the room.

    Operating systems have a demographic :)
    03-14-2018 02:56 PM
  16. tgp's Avatar
    Operating systems have a demographic :)
    They certainly do! However, people like me are probably confusing. I actively use all common operating systems. On a typical day I spend a good bit of time on Windows, Mac OS, Android, and iOS. Less often, I use ChromeOS and Linux.

    I don't fit anywhere!
    03-14-2018 03:01 PM
  17. MatthewR413's Avatar
    That makes sense yeah. Business people like windows. Designers like MacBooks. Engineers like certain Linux distros.

    I also think people like my wife like apple because she hates technology and there's the apple store that she can take it to and they fix it for her and that drives me nuts cause I love to tinker and customize so I mainly use windows for business because of office, and also dabble in Linux a bit.
    Laura Knotek, tgp and Jcmg62 like this.
    03-14-2018 03:30 PM
  18. tgp's Avatar
    I also think people like my wife like apple because she hates technology and there's the apple store that she can take it to and they fix it for her
    This plays a huge factor in how Apple has built up the following they have, and why they can demand premium prices. Their products are not necessarily the most capable, but they are more than enough for the vast majority of consumers.

    Apple products are arguably simple to use, relatively hassle free, and their customer support is second to none.
    libra89 and Laura Knotek like this.
    03-14-2018 04:53 PM
  19. MatthewR413's Avatar
    This plays a huge factor in how Apple has built up the following they have, and why they can demand premium prices. Their products are not necessarily the most capable, but they are more than enough for the vast majority of consumers.

    Apple products are arguably simple to use, relatively hassle free, and their customer support is second to none.
    Totally agree. They are great for older people and people who hate technology. When my father and mother-in-law were asking questions about getting smart phones and stuff I said go with Apple because, for some reason, the people who work at the apple store have a lot more patience than I do. It's a premium price, but with apple care, you just walk in and walk out with your problem solved. That's really the thing about Apple I admire: the customer service.
    03-14-2018 05:50 PM
  20. fatclue_98's Avatar
    They certainly do! However, people like me are probably confusing. I actively use all common operating systems. On a typical day I spend a good bit of time on Windows, Mac OS, Android, and iOS. Less often, I use ChromeOS and Linux.

    I don't fit anywhere!
    Except for the Linux, that's me too. Although I do use Chromebooks at home more than my MacBook.
    Laura Knotek, libra89 and tgp like this.
    03-14-2018 06:33 PM
  21. jmshub's Avatar
    I work in IT for a medium sized organization. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 500-700 desktop. Currently, 95% of our machines, including brand new ones being imaged today, are running Windows 7. We have a volume license, and push a Win7 image that we've been maintaining through every monthly update for years and years now.

    Windows 7 ends support in 2020, and Intel 7th gen chips don't properly support Win7, so that is finally the impetus to migrate. In our case, it isn't our decision. We need the hardware and software that we use to be formally supported by Windows 10. That was our first major hurdle. Even the big vendors are very slow to support any new version of Windows. (Side note: I got to this company just after Windows XP EoL'ed, and they were in a serious rush to get migrated to 7, mostly because of the products not supporting 7 until the last minute).

    Anywhoo, while our product mangers are watching vendors' whitesheets to see new versions finally fully support 10, in IT, we need to build test machines running 10, and then reconfigure our group policy objects to lock down the machines to fit the restrictions we have in place. And then we need to patch them with our patch mangement software, make sure that 10 behaves like 7, gets updated properly, and that we can keep them from automatically updating and downloading those huge feature updates in the middle of a workday.

    Then, after we have the machines ready to go, we can build machines to give to the Training dept to allow them to write user guides, to cut down on all of the support calls that we are bound to get from part time sales associates who show up on Saturday morning, and now the "screens look different".

    For the record, we have been using Win10 in IT for almost a year already, and we all like it, except for a little trickery to make sure they don't self-update and leave us with production machines rebooting and updating when we don't want them to...but this is probably a similar Win10 migration plan that a lot of organizations are doing.
    libra89, Jcmg62 and Laura Knotek like this.
    03-14-2018 09:58 PM
  22. jmshub's Avatar

    Honestly, no exaggeration, it takes this thing like 5 minutes to start up and about 2 minutes to open Outlook. Opening a PDF virtually drags it to a standstill.
    I bet that is caused by Active Directory. Especially Windows 7, laptops are looking for a domain controller on startup to grab any new group policy. It will sit there for what I believe is 60 seconds, scanning for for DCs. It won't boot up to a log on screen until it's exhausted that search.

    Even fast new machines with SSDs boot slowly in that circumstance.
    Jcmg62 and Laura Knotek like this.
    03-14-2018 10:05 PM
  23. dkediger's Avatar
    I bet that is caused by Active Directory. Especially Windows 7, laptops are looking for a domain controller on startup to grab any new group policy. It will sit there for what I believe is 60 seconds, scanning for for DCs. It won't boot up to a log on screen until it's exhausted that search.

    Even fast new machines with SSDs boot slowly in that circumstance.
    Partially....given the size of the org, its probably an unwieldly set of Group Policies to process. The number of policies, and any complexity of settings within them, can geometrically affect login time. Published resources like printers and shares add to that as well.

    I work very hard to keep our policies lean and mean, and startup/login isn't any slower off-site than on prem. It's all in the GP depth and complexity, but at the given org size in the OP - 300k - it's going to be a nightmare with GP having to parse quite a few competing group memberships and policy settings.

    And then there is also the previous mentioned Intel/Win7 support mismatch.
    03-18-2018 05:44 PM
  24. Adventurer64's Avatar
    My company has an initiative to get rid of all Windows 7 PC's over the next year. IT tried to refresh my Dell craptop running Windows 7 last year and I declined because the replacement was a low end Latitude without touch. I've actually compared my older Latitude running Win7 with the newer Latitudes running Win10, and mine is faster. Keep in mind I did replace the hard drive with a high end SSD and upgraded the memory, so that's a big part of it. Not many people are happy with the low end Latitudes running Win10. Since I use a Surface Pro 2017 and a smaller W10 tablet at home and for travel, I'm used to Windows 10 with touch. So, I can't handle a Win10 laptop without touch. The first thing I do is go for the screen. With Windows 7 I don't have the touch screen reflex. Anyway, I'm very happy with my older Dell craptop running Windows 7 and will fight tooth and nail with IT when the time comes to replace it with a Windows 10 non-touch Dell craptop. Why are IT departments so stuck on low end Latitudes for their employees? Drives me crazy.
    Laura Knotek and Jcmg62 like this.
    03-18-2018 06:41 PM
  25. dkediger's Avatar
    Inertia. It's the tried and true. Forva large IT department, might even be contracted purchasing over a time period given a model that was initially decent at the start of the term.

    I'm an SMB IT department, so I have a lot more flexibility to not be a slave so much to a common standardized platform.

    In my purchasing over the last, ohhh, 2 years, I've gone to excusively SSDs, NVM m.2 when available, and have found we can get better performance with a current gen I3 CPU versus the previous gen I5. For pretty much the same price.

    We don't utilize touch, so can't comment there.
    Laura Knotek and Adventurer64 like this.
    03-18-2018 07:02 PM
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