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  1. Reflexx's Avatar
    Absolutely, but every cloud storage provider does the same. None of them provision for all of what they have actually sold, and some continue to sell unlimited offerings (amazon being one), which the laws of nature already tell us to be a lie.

    It's standard practice in the industry. No doubt MS have probability models to back up that their practices make sense. If you fine them for that, you'd also have to kill the entire insurance industry, who's entire business model is based around the idea that only few will actually require what they are selling.
    If there are fines, I think they would be more tied to how a certain amount of storage was marketed with phone purchases.
    a5cent likes this.
    11-08-2015 03:13 AM
  2. wplee's Avatar
    I'd think it's great if you're right, but I'd be very surprised if you are.

    I'm one of the geeks that read through the ToS, and MS explicitly reserves the right to change storage quotas, prices or anything else at any time. You also got those 30GB credited to your OneDrive quota after purchasing the device, so in court it could be argued that you got what they promised. Nowhere did MS ever promise that you get those 30GB forever...

    In a nutshell, you got what was on the package. There was no false advertising. I really think most of us were just seeing what we wanted to see, rather than what was actually there. Was it deceptive? Yes. Illegal? I think not.
    Can I ask do you live in America?

    In the UK/Europe we have stronger consumer protection laws here for this reason. Think about what you wrote above. Your claiming it is okay for a company to actively market an important feature alongside the price point when selling a device as long as somewhere in their T&C's they have clauses.

    So if T&C's all that mattered, how about a new cowboy manufacturer sells a sim-free device for $50 with unlimited cloud storage, in-app purchases, free latest movies and free unlimited music. Then buried in their terms and conditions we have a clause which says they can remove/reduce all this at any time, which they of course do after 1 month. Would that be fair? Most would say No, they were mis-sold. Maybe gullible, but consumers are. That's why we have such strong laws here to protect vulnerable consumers like perhaps older people/young teens who have more trust in big companies.

    Now the above example is far worse than what Microsoft have done here. But it is for our government to decide at what point this line was crossed. As others have stated, it doesn't matter what any American developer or lawyer says, our UK legislation over rules this. Recently a major hair dye brand was banned from UK TV because TWO people complained they were mislead. Even though the company did use the product on the model, they didn't make the process clear enough even though it was in their instructions. That's how strong our consumer protection laws are and that was only the Advertising Standards Authority which is the weaker protection body.

    Again, I will update this thread later.
    11-08-2015 04:31 AM
  3. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    Absolutely, but every cloud storage provider does the same.
    All I know is that same defense didn't work when I was tried for bank robbery.
    Sagar Limaye likes this.
    11-08-2015 06:13 AM
  4. a5cent's Avatar
    All I know is that same defense didn't work when I was tried for bank robbery.

    Obviously, because you're an individual, not an industry. 😉
    11-08-2015 12:15 PM
  5. Mircea Stefan1's Avatar
    BY, BY MICROSOFT!. After 5 years, time that i had faith and trust in you, you force me to go for iPhone or Android. Then so be it
    xandros9 likes this.
    11-08-2015 12:21 PM
  6. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    BY, BY MICROSOFT!. After 5 years, time that i had faith and trust in you, you force me to go for iPhone or Android. Then so be it
    Just so you know, Microsoft made the same OneDrive cuts for iPhone and Android users.
    BobLobIaw and xandros9 like this.
    11-08-2015 12:24 PM
  7. sleeve22's Avatar
    The problem comes when MS marketed this storage as a benefit to help sell their phones with low storage capacity.
    Penetration pricing doesnt take things away from people that already purchased something.
    You can see it 2 ways. The other view is price per GB has increased. The consumer still has access to the capacity. I don't support their decision, I just understood the nature of the free 15GB vs. 3 GB from dropbox.
    11-08-2015 12:34 PM
  8. Bogdan Gheorghe's Avatar
    Great. I've been using MS storage & sharing solution since it was named Live Files or something like that. I ended up having 40Gb for free and another 100Gb Bing Bonus just to have everything reduced to 5Gb because some #%$#%$# uploaded their entire HDD on OneDrive? How is this my fault? Also, why did they say they offer UNLIMTED storage? We all (well, almost) knew it wasn't unlimited but the marketing was misleading.

    It's not that we asked for TBs of free data, I'm OK with the initial 40Gb free I have for Camera Roll backup and projects. And it's not that I wouldn't pay if I had to but when a company does something like this I have no guarantee that they won't double the price from one month to another. It's all a matter of trust.

    And what's worse is that when MS raised the storage cap it forced Google to do the same. Now the WP / Windows community is the most affected by this move. On iOS and Android they have the option to switch to Google Drive and use the 15Gb of free storage but Google Drive does not exist on WP. :|

    Now I have to wonder what to remove from my drive. Let's see. Should I remove my 20MP pictures taken with L930, that have around 6-7Mb / pic? Should I remove my WP projects? Guess I should start with these since it's obviously you really want users to switch to Android.

    I was really thinking on getting a Continuum-ready phone but in this case I'll just switch to iOS or Ubuntu Phone and that's it. Great cloud-first / mobile-first strategy MS, just perfect. x(
    11-08-2015 12:58 PM
  9. BobLobIaw's Avatar
    So if T&C's all that mattered, how about a new cowboy manufacturer sells a sim-free device for $50 with unlimited cloud storage, in-app purchases, free latest movies and free unlimited music. Then buried in their terms and conditions we have a clause which says they can remove/reduce all this at any time, which they of course do after 1 month. Would that be fair? Most would say No, they were mis-sold. Maybe gullible, but consumers are. That's why we have such strong laws here to protect vulnerable consumers like perhaps older people/young teens who have more trust in big companies.
    One problem I see in applying this argument to the OneDrive situation is the fact that virtually all of the phones that have included this marketing will be at or beyond their useful life at the time the consumer is *harmed.* Which phone did you buy and how long ago was it? Remember, if you have more than 5GB of storage you will get a free year of Office365 so you won't be impacted until 2017. If you have a 930, for instance, you got what you bargained for, even with the future changes.
    a5cent likes this.
    11-08-2015 01:41 PM
  10. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    Great. I've been using MS storage & sharing solution since it was named Live Files or something like that. I ended up having 40Gb for free and another 100Gb Bing Bonus just to have everything reduced to 5Gb because some #%$#%$# uploaded their entire HDD on OneDrive? How is this my fault?
    Its worse than you describe. The abusers were just a red herring Microsoft threw out to get some customers mad at the abusers instead of Microsoft. The abusers had NOTHING to do with the changes.
    11-08-2015 01:41 PM
  11. BobLobIaw's Avatar
    Great. I've been using MS storage & sharing solution since it was named Live Files or something like that. I ended up having 40Gb for free and another 100Gb Bing Bonus just to have everything reduced to 5Gb because some #%$#%$# uploaded their entire HDD on OneDrive? How is this my fault? Also, why did they say they offer UNLIMTED storage? We all (well, almost) knew it wasn't unlimited but the marketing was misleading.

    It's not that we asked for TBs of free data, I'm OK with the initial 40Gb free I have for Camera Roll backup and projects. And it's not that I wouldn't pay if I had to but when a company does something like this I have no guarantee that they won't double the price from one month to another. It's all a matter of trust.

    And what's worse is that when MS raised the storage cap it forced Google to do the same. Now the WP / Windows community is the most affected by this move. On iOS and Android they have the option to switch to Google Drive and use the 15Gb of free storage but Google Drive does not exist on WP. :|

    Now I have to wonder what to remove from my drive. Let's see. Should I remove my 20MP pictures taken with L930, that have around 6-7Mb / pic? Should I remove my WP projects? Guess I should start with these since it's obviously you really want users to switch to Android.

    I was really thinking on getting a Continuum-ready phone but in this case I'll just switch to iOS or Ubuntu Phone and that's it. Great cloud-first / mobile-first strategy MS, just perfect. x(
    Do you trust Google to keep 15GB of free storage now that Apple and MS are at 5GB? I wouldn't, but then again I don't trust any large corporation.
    a5cent likes this.
    11-08-2015 01:45 PM
  12. BobLobIaw's Avatar
    HoosierDaddy, the abusers certainly had something to do with the new policy, but you are right that it wasn't nearly the full story and it was a very poor justification to use on its own. It seems as though the press was going to out this policy change and MS had to come up with a half-baked explanation at 10:00 p.m. on a weeknight. I'd say that was their biggest mistake. If they had presented the changes better, the fallout wouldn't have been as great.
    Last edited by a5cent; 11-08-2015 at 02:31 PM. Reason: language edit
    a5cent likes this.
    11-08-2015 01:49 PM
  13. a5cent's Avatar
    Can I ask do you live in America?

    In the UK/Europe we have stronger consumer protection laws here for this reason. Think about what you wrote above. Your claiming it is okay for a company to actively market an important feature alongside the price point when selling a device as long as somewhere in their T&C's they have clauses.

    So if T&C's all that mattered, how about a new cowboy manufacturer sells a sim-free device for $50 with unlimited cloud storage, in-app purchases, free latest movies and free unlimited music. Then buried in their terms and conditions we have a clause which says they can remove/reduce all this at any time, which they of course do after 1 month. Would that be fair? Most would say No, they were mis-sold. Maybe gullible, but consumers are. That's why we have such strong laws here to protect vulnerable consumers like perhaps older people/young teens who have more trust in big companies.

    Now the above example is far worse than what Microsoft have done here. But it is for our government to decide at what point this line was crossed. As others have stated, it doesn't matter what any American developer or lawyer says, our UK legislation over rules this. Recently a major hair dye brand was banned from UK TV because TWO people complained they were mislead. Even though the company did use the product on the model, they didn't make the process clear enough even though it was in their instructions. That's how strong our consumer protection laws are and that was only the Advertising Standards Authority which is the weaker protection body.

    Again, I will update this thread later.
    No. I live in Switzerland. Consumer protection laws are similar to those in the UK.

    Based on information published by the UK Advertising Standards Authority, it sounds like banning a TV advertisement in the UK is a relatively simple thing to do. I'm sure MS could be forced to change their advertising (which they will be doing on their own already), but forcing MS to provide a service they don't want to provide will be a much taller legal mountain to climb.

    You could be right, but I'd be surprised if MS' army of lawyers didn't have all their bases covered. First, you'd have to prove that you can't use the service as advertised. That can only be argued by those who use more than 5GB of storage. To even things out, MS has decided to allow for a grace period of one year. On top of that, MS will offer those who use more than 5GB of storage a free subscription to Office 365 for one year! I'm pretty sure that instantly wipes out any legal basis you might have had to complain. I suspect you could only counter that by arguing those 15GB should be yours for all eternity, which IMHO has no chance of being viewed as a reasonable argument in court.

    Based on MS' policies (grace period of one year, free subscription to Office 365 with 1TB of storage), I see no grounds on which to take that complaint to court. Then again, I'm not a lawyer, so I could be wrong.
    Great deal and 920Walker like this.
    11-08-2015 02:30 PM
  14. Reflexx's Avatar
    One problem I see in applying this argument to the OneDrive situation is the fact that virtually all of the phones that have included this marketing will be at or beyond their useful life at the time the consumer is *harmed.* Which phone did you buy and how long ago was it? Remember, if you have more than 5GB of storage you will get a free year of Office365 so you won't be impacted until 2017. If you have a 930, for instance, you got what you bargained for, even with the future changes.
    That "free" Office 365 requires a credit card that will automatically renew the subscription unless you stop it.

    Another form of bait and switch.
    11-08-2015 02:41 PM
  15. Reflexx's Avatar
    Its worse than you describe. The abusers were just a red herring Microsoft threw out to get some customers mad at the abusers instead of Microsoft. The abusers had NOTHING to do with the changes.
    Agreed.

    They only mention these "abusers" because they want to redirect the anger and backlash that they knew they would get.
    11-08-2015 02:47 PM
  16. wsantosf's Avatar
    But they said they will make the transition smooth for us, so I guess we'll be receiving a bottle of KY jelly by mail...
    11-08-2015 03:23 PM
  17. jagowar's Avatar
    My problem is not with the downsizing of the paid tier... to me that is about what you should expect for the price they are charging but like others I do have a problem with the free tier. I don't even mind the 5 gigs as a base but they should have kept the 15 gigs for storing your photos and given you another 15 gigs for storing your music. They should want you to use their services and this actively discourages that.
    11-08-2015 03:26 PM
  18. WinCoffee's Avatar
    So first I was using Google drive, but my Windowsphone drived me to use OneDrive because no good GDrive app. I felt in love with OneDrive and with that free 30GB! but now I don't know... Should I use G Drive and get Android? I don't want to because I see much potential in W10M... :/
    don4law likes this.
    11-08-2015 03:31 PM
  19. WinCoffee's Avatar
    Great. I've been using MS storage & sharing solution since it was named Live Files or something like that. I ended up having 40Gb for free and another 100Gb Bing Bonus just to have everything reduced to 5Gb because some #%$#%$# uploaded their entire HDD on OneDrive? How is this my fault? Also, why did they say they offer UNLIMTED storage? We all (well, almost) knew it wasn't unlimited but the marketing was misleading.

    It's not that we asked for TBs of free data, I'm OK with the initial 40Gb free I have for Camera Roll backup and projects. And it's not that I wouldn't pay if I had to but when a company does something like this I have no guarantee that they won't double the price from one month to another. It's all a matter of trust.

    And what's worse is that when MS raised the storage cap it forced Google to do the same. Now the WP / Windows community is the most affected by this move. On iOS and Android they have the option to switch to Google Drive and use the 15Gb of free storage but Google Drive does not exist on WP. :|

    Now I have to wonder what to remove from my drive. Let's see. Should I remove my 20MP pictures taken with L930, that have around 6-7Mb / pic? Should I remove my WP projects? Guess I should start with these since it's obviously you really want users to switch to Android.

    I was really thinking on getting a Continuum-ready phone but in this case I'll just switch to iOS or Ubuntu Phone and that's it. Great cloud-first / mobile-first strategy MS, just perfect. x(
    I feel your pain... :/
    11-08-2015 03:35 PM
  20. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    But they said they will make the transition smooth for us, so I guess we'll be receiving a bottle of KY jelly by mail...
    Don't take it. Kentucky makes the worst jelly imaginable. I ordered some and toast was inedible with it.
    11-08-2015 03:51 PM
  21. BobLobIaw's Avatar
    That "free" Office 365 requires a credit card that will automatically renew the subscription unless you stop it.

    Another form of bait and switch.
    That's unrelated to the point of my comment, but I don't see that it's any different than the way most other companies handle "free" stuff. Netflix and any music service I can think of come to mind. It seems you are just looking for criticism at this point without providing any market context.
    N_LaRUE and Kevin Rush like this.
    11-08-2015 03:56 PM
  22. Great deal's Avatar
    This is a healthy debate, one I hope Microsoft are watching and learning from. As far as legal matters go, the UK government wont get involved, the last thing they want to do is to take Microsoft to court, the government would waste millions and the end result will be Microsoft flexing their muscles regarding jobs, tax etc. In any case, just like the apps we all install, the mere action of using these services means we agree to the T&C's, which gives the power firmly to Microsoft.

    All this talk of T&C's/privacy has really got me thinking and looking at the BlackPhone 2 by https://silentcircle.com/
    11-08-2015 05:10 PM
  23. Shkupjani's Avatar
    Who cares about us people. I think (if I am not mistaken) 15 + 15 was a bait by Microsoft. Now this need will become luxury. Who wants it must pay :(

    Another reason is maybe because "Spanish fashion mogul briefly overtakes Bill Gates to become world's richest"
    Bill Gates needs money from us to overtake Zara founder :)
    11-08-2015 05:22 PM
  24. Krystianpants's Avatar
    Microsoft is getting some bad press in major Canadian news outlets now. A crack about them promoting storage with bait and switch.
    11-08-2015 05:22 PM
  25. Grodelj's Avatar
    I really was beginning to develop some sort of fan feelings towards MS, for being a good guy recently, but now this? I can't see how this decision will benefit them. Users are becoming angry, wtf is Satya thinking?
    11-08-2015 05:40 PM
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