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  1. BobLobIaw's Avatar
    Firstly the Sony promotion was not limited to 2013 it actually ran for a few years (2011-2014) and was unrelated to whatever offer box.com may have had for other users.

    A subcription or account is personal and can't be inherited so "forever" would be incorrect obviously. A more fitting description would be "for life", which is the actual description Sony gave (i checked). This was something that could be easily afforded by a company that was hemorrhaging money elsewhere. Microsoft come across as stingy and unreliable in comparison.

    Also, you are not the one to decide what is a useful lifetime for a phone, it may not be top of the line anymore after a couple of years but it may very well be perfectly adequate for someone who doesn't have a need to replace their perfectly functional phone every two years. I would agree that it's unreasonable to expect the storage to be forever and untied to the phone it was included with, unless otherwise specified as such as with the case of Sony, but the minimum would be for as long as the phone is used.
    Don't get me wrong, I agree that MS is coming across as stingy. I have interpreted their actions to mean that they wanted to cut back on the people who were given extra free storage but weren't spending money on MS services. It seems obvious that they are now targeting a different audience--the Office365 audience that typically buys a variety of MS services (think Work & Play Bundle customers). It's also pretty clear that they wanted to align themselves with the Apple model for free storage (5GB). I'm not saying it's good or bad business because I don't know how it will shake out. The issue we are talking about stems from a group of posters that I feel come across as overly-entitled. I've given my reasons for that and at this point am probably beating a dead horse.

    Of course I think the best plan would have been for MS to directly link the 30GB with "the phone" but that's not how it was set up. It's tied to personal accounts, so you could have bought a Lumia 520 for pennies, get your 30GB, sell the phone a day later and keep the 30GB free cloud storage. Your desire, while a good one, is not enforceable. Nevertheless, they must be aware of the issue because eliminating cutbacks for customers who are using more than 5GB until 2017 dovetails with the useful lifespan of existing Lumia devices.

    With respect to your "for life" example, the advertising needs to say "for life" or "for two years" or some specific duration; otherwise, a consumer should read the terms and conditions. Those terms clearly say in several places that the terms can be modified on notice. Should MS have been more upfront about it? Absolutely, but they probably intended to give the storage out indefinitely, then did an audit of the service and realized that they were losing a bunch of money in those two areas: >1TB and <30GB. If there's one thing I've noticed about MS and other tech corps, it is that nothing ever stays the same. Deals come and go, services come and go, and people should expect the unexpected for it will happen. And read the small print--it matters.
    a5cent likes this.
    11-18-2015 11:28 AM
  2. Reflexx's Avatar
    Can you give an example of something a corporation has given you for free forever? Cream and sugar doesn't count. . . .
    "Life of their account" and "forever" are not the same thing.

    But how about Dropbox? Google? Copy? Etc... You know... anyone that gives cloud storage that has kept their free amount the same as what they told you when you signed up? And when you earned additional storage, they let you keep that too.
    ragingklu likes this.
    11-18-2015 12:12 PM
  3. Reflexx's Avatar
    I agree that grandfathering would have been much better for WP users, but I don't see anywhere in the Dropbox terms and conditions that says they are providing storage for life on those terms. In fact, they say they can modify any terms with prior notice. Just like MS.

    Except they haven't done just like MS.

    Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.
    xandros9 and ragingklu like this.
    11-18-2015 12:13 PM
  4. BobLobIaw's Avatar
    "Life of their account" and "forever" are not the same thing.

    But how about Dropbox? Google? Copy? Etc... You know... anyone that gives cloud storage that has kept their free amount the same as what they told you when you signed up? And when you earned additional storage, they let you keep that too.
    Read the terms and conditions. You are not guaranteed a certain amount of free storage for the life of your account.

    Except they haven't done just like MS.

    Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.
    Except they haven't done just like MS yet. FYP.
    Last edited by xandros9; 11-18-2015 at 12:52 PM.
    a5cent likes this.
    11-18-2015 12:26 PM
  5. xandros9's Avatar
    Except they haven't done just like MS yet. FYP.
    Well it still doesn't put Microsoft in the right here. It's not what they CAN do, its what they do.
    11-18-2015 12:53 PM
  6. Reflexx's Avatar
    Read the terms and conditions. You are not guaranteed a certain amount of free storage for the life of your account.
    So?

    Except they haven't done just like MS yet. FYP.
    Yup. They haven't. And MS has.
    xandros9 and ragingklu like this.
    11-18-2015 12:54 PM
  7. Koeysig's Avatar
    Don't get me wrong, I agree that MS is coming across as stingy. I have interpreted their actions to mean that they wanted to cut back on the people who were given extra free storage but weren't spending money on MS services. It seems obvious that they are now targeting a different audience--the Office365 audience that typically buys a variety of MS services (think Work & Play Bundle customers). It's also pretty clear that they wanted to align themselves with the Apple model for free storage (5GB). I'm not saying it's good or bad business because I don't know how it will shake out. The issue we are talking about stems from a group of posters that I feel come across as overly-entitled. I've given my reasons for that and at this point am probably beating a dead horse.

    Of course I think the best plan would have been for MS to directly link the 30GB with "the phone" but that's not how it was set up. It's tied to personal accounts, so you could have bought a Lumia 520 for pennies, get your 30GB, sell the phone a day later and keep the 30GB free cloud storage. Your desire, while a good one, is not enforceable. Nevertheless, they must be aware of the issue because eliminating cutbacks for customers who are using more than 5GB until 2017 dovetails with the useful lifespan of existing Lumia devices.

    With respect to your "for life" example, the advertising needs to say "for life" or "for two years" or some specific duration; otherwise, a consumer should read the terms and conditions. Those terms clearly say in several places that the terms can be modified on notice. Should MS have been more upfront about it? Absolutely, but they probably intended to give the storage out indefinitely, then did an audit of the service and realized that they were losing a bunch of money in those two areas: >1TB and <30GB. If there's one thing I've noticed about MS and other tech corps, it is that nothing ever stays the same. Deals come and go, services come and go, and people should expect the unexpected for it will happen. And read the small print--it matters.
    I don't really think you can be "overly-entitled" when it comes to something you have paid for. We ARE entitled to what we bought - period.
    But fine, that is your opinion and everyone is entitled to their own :) However I am of the opinion that Microsoft must honour their part of the deal even if they believe that the cost isn't worth the benefits anymore. The vast majority of people also seem to share my opinion.

    It's their own choice to design Onedrive the way they did, it would be entirely enforceable to restrict it to the hardware if it was what they wished. Also if you sold the phone today I'm guessing you would remain with 15GB not 30GB, as then you would not have the camera bonus anymore. I haven't exactly checked but I assume that when the account is deleted from the phone, the bonus 15GB goes away.
    While your definition of "useful lifespan" may be true for you, it isn't universal. It might still be useful for others. As long as the product isn't broken I would argue it is still useful.

    Fine print isn't a magical tool to release you of any of your responsibilities. While the fine print matters, consumer laws still ultimately apply.
    Last edited by Koeysig; 11-18-2015 at 07:52 PM.
    Reflexx likes this.
    11-18-2015 04:56 PM
  8. wplee's Avatar

    Of course I think the best plan would have been for MS to directly link the 30GB with "the phone" but that's not how it was set up. It's tied to personal accounts, so you could have bought a Lumia 520 for pennies, get your 30GB, sell the phone a day later and keep the 30GB free cloud storage. Your desire, while a good one, is not enforceable. Nevertheless, they must be aware of the issue because eliminating cutbacks for customers who are using more than 5GB until 2017 dovetails with the useful lifespan of existing Lumia devices.

    Absolutely, but they probably intended to give the storage out indefinitely, then did an audit of the service and realized that they were losing a bunch of money in those two areas: >1TB and <30GB.
    The easiest way is to simply say that devices where the 30GB have been applied to the Microsoft account keep it for life like the Box example. This would seem the simplest option, they would need to so nothing and no administration. But that doesn't actually mean life of course but the lifetime of the device because eventually users will hit the 30GB limit and need to pay. If they were stingy, they could also set a year 2020 expiration and then challenge that all devices sold between 2013-2015 have now exceeded this lifetime as a realistic smartphone lifetime.

    The other alternative is swapping a device's IMEI number for a 30GB OneDrive voucher code that we could claim. But this potentially could create a 2nd black market for these codes, though I'm not sure how many would realistically bother doing all this for 30GB.

    I see the 30GB and 1TB as two separate offers. The 30GB is tied to the Lumia. 1TB is tied to Office 365. While Lumia users may be able to take advantage of free 1TB for 1 year, this is simply to encourage Office 365 and has nothing to do with Lumia.
    Reflexx and xandros9 like this.
    11-19-2015 01:31 AM
  9. wplee's Avatar
    ....Another option is to allow Camera Roll/Uploads on the OneDrive Lumia app only. This would require a bit of work on Microsoft's backend but basically the Lumia OneDrive app could continue to upload until 30GB is exceeded. This 30GB data could be then be accessed/downloaded on non-Lumia devices but not uploaded on say an Android which prevents users leaving the platform.

    There is a financial advantage for Microsoft's audit team here too. If someone is keeping their Lumia a couple of extra years for this 30GB OneDrive, they are also an active user for the Windows platform. This helps drive new developers here. It also means that the Lumia user is likely to be using services like Bing (ads), Outlook (ads on web), In App Purchases (Microsoft earn 30%) etc.
    11-19-2015 01:50 AM
  10. wplee's Avatar
    Update: 25th Nov

    Just to advise everyone that this is STILL being investigated here in the UK by the ASA & Consumer Ombudsman. The fact that our complaints are still active after this time is hopefully a good sign.

    As always guys, I will update this thread as soon as I get an update. For those who are interested in the UK complaint can read so below:

    http://forums.windowscentral.com/one...s-selling.html
    11-25-2015 06:53 AM
  11. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    Update: 25th Nov

    Just to advise everyone that this is STILL being investigated here in the UK by the ASA & Consumer Ombudsman. The fact that our complaints are still active after this time is hopefully a good sign.

    As always guys, I will update this thread as soon as I get an update. For those who are interested in the UK complaint can read so below:

    http://forums.windowscentral.com/one...s-selling.html
    This is great. I'm not sure how to complain (apparently I need documentation that I'm not sure how to find) so doubt I'll do it myself, but great to know Microsoft might get dinged by the authorities for it.
    11-25-2015 07:17 AM
  12. wplee's Avatar
    This is great. I'm not sure how to complain (apparently I need documentation that I'm not sure how to find) so doubt I'll do it myself, but great to know Microsoft might get dinged by the authorities for it.
    I just had to provide details of my purchase to the Consumer Ombudsman. For the ASA, they only need screenshots and links which was easy considering the UK Microsoft team are still advertising 30GB with the new Lumia 950 and no mention of the upcoming "early 2015" changes!!. It is a big complaint though, two separate ones and so likely why it is taking so long.
    11-25-2015 01:32 PM
  13. wplee's Avatar
    2nd Dec 2015 - UPDATE

    Finally got some news guys:

    The UK consumer ombudsman have finally got back to me with this: "We have contacted the company to ascertain if it was prepared to allow us to review your complaint. The company has not responded despite chasers being sent."

    So they have completely ignored ALL correspondence from the UK Consumer Ombudsman.

    What a disgrace of a company.

    So basically they are now saying if I wish to take my complaint forward I need to get Trading Standards involved which is hugely severe because they have teams of people who visit offices and can result in court action. I'm not sure I have energy to go through with all this. I'd rather put my Lumia in the bin and never touch Microsoft ever again.

    Anyway, I've still got to hear back from the ASA so will update again later this week. Hopefully they will be able to prevent the cowboys from continuing to advertise the 950 over here with 30GB.
    12-02-2015 02:31 PM
  14. Reflexx's Avatar
    At least we know it's not just the consumers that are being ignored.
    wplee and xandros9 like this.
    12-03-2015 03:11 PM
  15. ostseeratte SN's Avatar
    Thank you for your post. For me its clear now, it was my first and my last microsoft phone. i have google phones for ten years, but they have never so ignored their cosumers. the microsoft support answered me with a link that i can wote for more space. I felt really taunting me. No never again thank you.
    12-11-2015 06:42 AM
  16. tgp's Avatar
    Hopefully they will be able to prevent the cowboys from continuing to advertise the 950 over here with 30GB.
    Isn't this still technically correct? I believe the storage limit drop is to start rolling out in early 2016. How can Microsoft be incriminated for this?
    12-11-2015 07:01 AM
  17. Maromi-kun's Avatar
    For anyone that voted in OneDrive's UserVoice (the Give us back our storage one), ms just closed it but gave a link so those with 15GB storage + 15GB Camera Roll can keep it even after the changes take into effect. They're also giving free users 1 year of Office 365 Personal
    Reflexx likes this.
    12-11-2015 12:28 PM
  18. BobLobIaw's Avatar
    Here is a link to the story which has the opt-in information.

    OneDrive users can keep their free 15GB of storage and camera roll bonus after all, if they opt-in by Jan. 31 | Windows Central

    Well done, MS. Looks to me to be a good solution with the grandfathering of the 15GB and Camera Roll users. I wonder if the 10GB loyalty bonus will still be preserved as I've never seen a definitive statement on that.
    12-11-2015 01:34 PM
  19. Bobby Bahmanpour's Avatar
    I just saw this and it seems to keep you at the old 30+10 level

    https://preview.onedrive.com/bonus/

    Click it to not loose your storage
    12-11-2015 02:50 PM
  20. wplee's Avatar
    Hopefully my ongoing complaint with the ASA (UK) has helped them reach this decision.

    Strangely the complaint has not been closed down by the ASA, the way Microsoft aka The OneDrive Team have handled this has been a disgrace. Will now update my ongoing thread but at least we got our victory in the end.
    12-11-2015 07:07 PM
  21. Reflexx's Avatar
    So consumers voicing their concerns made a positive impact.

    Imagine if we listened to all those people that just called it whining.
    12-11-2015 07:19 PM
  22. BobLobIaw's Avatar
    So consumers voicing their concerns made a positive impact.

    Imagine if we listened to all those people that just called it whining.
    It is nice to see that Microsoft listened to those who voiced concerns. It's too bad that you lost your trust in the company and now won't be able to take advantage of the grandfathering. You did a good thing for others though, and they should thank you.
    12-11-2015 08:39 PM
  23. xandros9's Avatar
    So consumers voicing their concerns made a positive impact.

    Imagine if we listened to all those people that just called it whining.
    UserVoice voting, complaints and stuff are protesting and stuff.

    Whining I'm pretty sure is a lot more obnoxious.
    12-11-2015 10:02 PM
  24. Krystianpants's Avatar
    It is nice to see that Microsoft listened to those who voiced concerns. It's too bad that you lost your trust in the company and now won't be able to take advantage of the grandfathering. You did a good thing for others though, and they should thank you.
    Yeah ms probably thought based off usage most wouldn't care. But then they realized that's not the case and did what's good. A company that screws up and admits it is actually quite trusting in my book, everyone makes mistakes.
    12-11-2015 10:13 PM
  25. Reflexx's Avatar
    It is nice to see that Microsoft listened to those who voiced concerns. It's too bad that you lost your trust in the company and now won't be able to take advantage of the grandfathering. You did a good thing for others though, and they should thank you.
    I lost some trust, but I'm still Lumia user as well as a Windows 10 user.

    I still think that it was crappy of them to take so long to address the UserVoice when it states that suggestions with 100 votes would be responded to.
    12-12-2015 02:30 AM
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