07-23-2016 06:30 AM
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  1. weiser159's Avatar
    It really is kind of bait and switch when you consider they marketed OneDrive so heavily to promote the Lumia phones. I'm not saying it's illegal, but rather simply unethical. I'm not the type to expect free stuff. The issue here is I don't really consider OneDrive to fall in that category when you consider MS was marketing it together with the phones as a feature. NOW they shave off 2/3 of the space (5/6 if you count the +15 GB). Either that's more MS poor planning or they're being deceitful. Considering all the privacy issues with Windows 10, I'm going with the deceitful tag. I just don't see any good reasons for taking away that much storage for Lumia owners. And yes, I'm specifically referring to Lumia owners. I'm not saying MS owes me free general storage. Just allow the Lumia owners to continue backing up and accessing their media content through OneDrive.

    It's kind of funny how the media was getting worried about a potential Windows 10 OS subscription someday when it turns out OneDrive was probably the plan all along haha. I gotta say, it's brilliant! The drug dealer analogy works. Get us hooked for free and then start charging us!
    Last edited by weiser159; 11-06-2015 at 10:10 AM.
    11-06-2015 09:58 AM
  2. cmucodemonkey's Avatar
    Just read Paul Thurott's article on this issue and I think he made an interesting point when discussing Google Drive. The various tiers available for purchase make it possible to get as much storage as you need. If you look at the OneDrive offerings (as of 2016) it jumps from 5 GB to 50 GB to 1 TB. If you need anything in between you either have to fork over more money for space you won't use or be simply SOL.

    Microsoft OneDrive
    Free storage: 5 GB
    Paid storage: 50 GB for $2 per month ($24 per year)
    Paid storage: 1 TB for $70 per year (Office 365 Personal) or $100 per year (Office 365 Home, up to 5 users)
    Camera backup: Windows phone, Android, iOS (full quality)
    Advantages: Built-in to Windows 10, broad coverage on mobile devices.
    Disadvantages: Unreliable. Poor performance. No way to access folders you dont sync in File Explorer.

    Google Drive
    Free storage: 15 GB
    Paid storage: 100 GB for $2 per month ($24 per year)
    Paid storage: 1 TB for $10 per month ($120 per year)
    Paid storage: 10 TB for $100 per month ($1200 per year)
    Paid storage: 20 TB for $200 per month ($2400 per year)
    Paid storage: 30 TB for $300 per month ($3600 per year)
    Camera backup: Android, iOS
    Advantages: Lots of free storage, can pay for as much storage as you need.
    Disadvantages: Google is untrustworthy. No Windows phone client. No 1 TB incremental tiers.
    https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/micro...torage-options
    a5cent and xandros9 like this.
    11-06-2015 10:16 AM
  3. weiser159's Avatar
    Another thing I think deserves being pointed out is that a lot of people aren't necessarily concerned with the cost of buying cloud storage at $2/mo, but rather they don't like the thought of adding yet another subscription to their life. I know I'm in that category. I hate to think I have all these tiny subscriptions floating around all over the place. Also, the dating website or music streaming service analogy can be made. They each like to say "it's only $10/mo." What about all the other services that make the same argument? All of a sudden $10/mo is a lot because I have to multiply it by 10 or 20!
    jeffoffline likes this.
    11-06-2015 10:21 AM
  4. a5cent's Avatar
    Another thing I think deserves being pointed out is that a lot of people aren't necessarily concerned with the cost of buying cloud storage at $2/mo, but rather they don't like the thought of adding yet another subscription to their life. I know I'm in that category. I hate to think I have all these tiny subscriptions floating around all over the place. Also, the dating website or music streaming service analogy can be made. They each like to say "it's only $10/mo." What about all the other services that make the same argument? All of a sudden $10/mo is a lot because I have to multiply it by 10 or 20!
    So what do you propose MS do? Become a charity so people aren't bothered with multiple subscriptions? They just gave away over a hundred million W10 licenses at no cost. They have to be left with something to earn money with.
    BobLobIaw and 920Walker like this.
    11-06-2015 10:25 AM
  5. weiser159's Avatar
    So what do you propose MS do? Become a charity so people aren't bothered with multiple subscriptions? They just gave away over a hundred million W10 licenses at no cost. They have to be left with something to earn money with. It seems to me they're having difficulty competing with Google's "have everything for free but be the product" business model.
    In my previous post I mentioned how it would have been proper to continue supporting media content backup for Lumia phones with the same 15 GB since they were promoting OneDrive as a key feature for the phones. I specifically said MS doesn't owe us general storage. Considering the mess that their phones have been for years now I just find it odd they would make this decision NOW. I'm not gonna make this an argument, but I don't see how your point defeats mine. They're not mutually exclusive. Just because I spoke negatively of the $1.99/mo sub, doesn't mean I am against the concept of charging for storage, whatever the tiers and costs may be.
    a5cent and xandros9 like this.
    11-06-2015 10:33 AM
  6. a5cent's Avatar
    In my previous post I mentioned how it would have been proper to continue supporting media content backup for Lumia phones with the same 15 GB since they were promoting OneDrive as a key feature for the phones. I specifically said MS doesn't owe us general storage. Considering the mess that their phones have been for years now I just find it odd they would make this decision NOW. I'm not gonna make this an argument, but I don't see how your point defeats mine. They're not mutually exclusive. Just because I spoke negatively of the $1.99/mo sub, doesn't mean I am against the concept of charging for storage, whatever the tiers and costs may be.
    I wasn't making a point against you. I was just asking. I think your point goes to the core issue that most people have. Nobody wants to pay for online storage because we've been conditioned to believe it should be available for free. Even if we rationally understand that's ridiculous, that doesn't make us feel better about forking over the $2 (or whatever).
    11-06-2015 10:37 AM
  7. Kevin Rush's Avatar
    Amazon CloudDrive "Unlimited Everything" plan 1 year free because of a recent purchase (Harmony Elite) otherwise 3 months free, then $60/year.
    11-06-2015 10:38 AM
  8. Reflexx's Avatar
    I wasn't making a point against you. I was just asking. I think your point goes to the core issue that most people have. Nobody wants to pay for online storage because we've been conditioned to believe it should be available for free. Even if we rationally understand that's ridiculous, that doesn't make us feel better about forking over the $2 (or whatever).
    Well, it wasn't looked at as free by many because it was looked at as a feature that was associated with an expensive hardware purchase.
    Kavu2, jeffchapik and xandros9 like this.
    11-06-2015 10:50 AM
  9. weiser159's Avatar
    I wasn't making a point against you. I was just asking. I think your point goes to the core issue that most people have. Nobody wants to pay for online storage because we've been conditioned to believe it should be available for free. Even if we rationally understand that's ridiculous, that doesn't make us feel better about forking over the $2 (or whatever).
    I still find myself getting into arguments with people who say software should be free or with people who exclusively download/stream copyrighted media content illegally. The developers of this stuff have to get paid. It's just illogical to expect it for free.

    My only issue with the storage change is that MS intentionally conditioned us to associate OneDrive with the Lumia phones. It's not a case where we, the consumer, chose to add OneDrive to our Lumia experience. It's a key extension of the phone and a reason why many of us stuck with it. Again, I just hate adding all these little subscriptions to my life. They have every right to charge for a service, and they should. It's just in this case I don't like the terms or the way they went about it.

    Anyway, it is what it is. It's not the end of the world. Yes, a little frustrated by the change because I struggled with being a loyal Windows Phone user for years now. I'm due for an update and now that I've seen what 10 has to offer I can include Android in the discussion. It's not out of disgust for MS, but rather because I no longer feel a compelling reason to stick with Windows Phone. It's all good!
    11-06-2015 10:52 AM
  10. fgaudet's Avatar
    The user of the term "greed" this week in relation to these events always throws me. They are giving you a service, which they really can't sustain in the way they promised and is not core to their business, for free.
    This is where you are wrong : that 'free' service is part of the platform. It *is* a core part of the product.

    When I chose to buy a Windows Phone, subscribe to Office 365, buy a Windows 8 upgrade, and stay in the Windows ecosystem, I also do so because of that 'free' OneDrive space. (yes I know, W10 was a free upgrade - for now...).

    FFS, they are still advertising all their products with that 'free' 15 GB OneDrive as a selling point! OneDrive *is* a major feature of Windows!

    This would be like saying a car manufacturer is giving you 'free' service while working on your car under warranty and that he can decide ad-hoc to change those terms and start billing you.

    It's never 'free' : you paid for it by purchasing the product or buying into the ecosystem. You bought into that ecosystem in part because OneDrive was part of it.

    Perhaps the free 15 GB could be reserved to actual Windows users, and the Android-only or Apple-only users could get just the free 5 GB, but I don't think Nadella would overtly favor Windows users over his new target clientele.

    This may be much ado about nothing in the end. Everyone can afford $2/month, and I'll probably just buy-in to that $2/month.
    Sigh. Still looking at other options, maybe a 'home cloud', but that costs a bunch up front...
    Reflexx, Kavu2 and theefman like this.
    11-06-2015 10:56 AM
  11. Reflexx's Avatar
    So what do you propose MS do? Become a charity so people aren't bothered with multiple subscriptions? They just gave away over a hundred million W10 licenses at no cost. They have to be left with something to earn money with.
    How about letting people get grandfathered in for the free tiers? Especially for things like camera roll storage.

    As of right now, from camera/mobile alone I'm almost at 15GB. And that's just a result of me being a loyal user of Windows Phone.
    fgaudet likes this.
    11-06-2015 10:57 AM
  12. StaticXCC's Avatar
    I know. You're the one who doesn't understand though. I never said I'm criticizing you or your opinions (I'm criticizing others). I realize that we agree on most issues. The only disagreement we have is that you think I'm speculating, when I'm clearly not.

    I would be speculating if I'd be setting up a balance sheet of what I think OneDrive's cost structure looks like. I'm not.

    There is but one single thing you need to believe for all my other points to make sense, and that is that the expenses incurred by running the OneDrive service are not negligible. Coming to that conclusion doesn't require speculation. There is enough information out there for anyone with elementary math skills to prove that to themselves. I think that's the only relevant disagreement we have.
    Yea... but you ARE speculating, even if they are well educated guesses. Why do I say this?

    Do you know what sort of bulk discount MS gets on its raid storage arrays? I'm guessing.... no
    Do you know how many current people pay into all the various plans? I'm guessing... no
    Do you know the value of the knock-on effects that OneDrive provides? I'm guessing... no

    OneDrive costs vs ROI would be very hard to speculate unless you're in MS accounting, and even then bean counters often will look at the "cost" of a service and declare it "bad" when that service is providing immense value elsewhere keeping said company afloat. I've seen a number of company's suddenly up the price of what they thought was a minor thing, just to have it blow up in their face and the company massively hurt because of it.

    To sum this up, we don't know the numbers, so talking about the straight "cost" to implement cloud storage is a waste because OneDrive is more than the sum of it's parts.

    As for people being conditioned to free, I hate to say it but tough luck on that. Other companies have made "free" very profitable, and you know what? Kudo's to them for figuring it out. The consumer benefits from low cost to free offerings, and the company benefits from increased profits. Everybody wins. I hardly see that as poisoning people's minds, especially in this day and age where people are stretching that dollar like never before.
    11-06-2015 11:06 AM
  13. wplee's Avatar
    I was initially in the camp of those who speculated that this was most likely a bait & switch tactic. In light of all the recent reporting I've come to change my mind. I still think that may have been part of the equation, but I'm very sceptical that was the only factor involved. That's all I'm saying here, and I'm doing my best to try and back it up.
    Most times your gut is rarely wrong, you should trust it more. Its designed to protect you against bull like "some users were uploading films so now we gotta punish everyone guys". That reasoning is the most insulting thing Microsoft ever wrote as far as I'm concerned. Read the OneDrive blog comments. I'd rather Satya came out and just said "we miscalculated our costs guys, sorry" if that's what you claim may have happened.

    When Microsoft messed up the launch of Xbox One, they completely misread their customer's priorities and then did a disaster of PR which led to Don eventually fleeing. Sony later admitted they were actual dancing watching the car crash that was Xbox One's launch. Now the console will never be able to close the gap. Its still regarded as one of the biggest launch disasters of all time. This is the same company and not that long ago. But sure, we should trust them and give em the benefit of doubt, right?
    11-06-2015 11:09 AM
  14. WaverunningGeek's Avatar
    Microsoft believes its users are stupid.

    (1) It released the blog entry at 10pm on the night before the US election thinking no one will notice.
    (2) It cites user abuse instead of its own incompetence which is silly because (A) they could simply ban the "abusers" if they wanted to and (B) How do you abuse an UNLIMITED service?
    (3) The offer was made to increase Office 365 subscriptions and this announcement timed right after those subscriptions were due to renew, locking people into subscriptions yet not getting the storage they were promised.

    What a POS company, insulting their customers like that then using bait and switch tactics. Honestly, I just want to punch Satya Nadella in the face. It's about time CEOs start feeling the pain they mindlessly put their customers through.
    Andrew Gordon likes this.
    11-06-2015 11:13 AM
  15. fgaudet's Avatar
    My only issue with the storage change is that MS intentionally conditioned us to associate OneDrive with the Lumia phones. It's not a case where we, the consumer, chose to add OneDrive to our Lumia experience. It's a key extension of the phone and a reason why many of us stuck with it. Again, I just hate adding all these little subscriptions to my life. They have every right to charge for a service, and they should. It's just in this case I don't like the terms or the way they went about it.
    ^^^ THIS.

    If we had the option to choose Google Drive, Mega, DropBox or whatever, to have the same seamless integration in Windows Phone, it would not be such an issue.

    But we don't have that option.
    Andrew Gordon likes this.
    11-06-2015 11:25 AM
  16. wplee's Avatar
    Microsoft believes its users are stupid.

    (1) It released the blog entry at 10pm on the night before the US election thinking no one will notice.
    (2) It cites user abuse instead of its own incompetence which is silly because (A) they could simply ban the "abusers" if they wanted to and (B) How do you abuse an UNLIMITED service?
    (3) The offer was made to increase Office 365 subscriptions and this announcement timed right after those subscriptions were due to renew, locking people into subscriptions yet not getting the storage they were promised.

    What a POS company, insulting their customers like that then using bait and switch tactics. Honestly, I just want to punch Satya Nadella in the face. It's about time CEOs start feeling the pain they mindlessly put their customers through.
    This is the problem. Satya doesn't get in to crisis like this until Fox News gets involved. He's too busy with blue sky thinking, remember his last mess up about female workers pay. That blew up fast because he misread the situation.
    11-06-2015 11:28 AM
  17. a5cent's Avatar
    How about letting people get grandfathered in for the free tiers? Especially for things like camera roll storage.

    As of right now, from camera/mobile alone I'm almost at 15GB. And that's just a result of me being a loyal user of Windows Phone.
    I agree that would have been much better.

    On the other hand, I'm not sure how reasonable it is to view online storage as something that is integral to a device purchase. I know that's a popular view, and I don't blame anyone for taking that stance, but I think we've fooled ourselves. If that was actually how things worked, then that online storage would have to be tied to and wander along with the device, so if you sold it, that storage would be sold along with it. That's clearly not how it works though. I think that's a big enough hint that it's just a promotional effort, and we probably should have figured that out, but we didn't want to and MS really screwed up in the communications department.

    Overall I find all the outrage over OneDrive to be a very mixed bag. There are people who have absolutely legitimate gripes, others who just feel entitled to free stuff, and some who are almost in conspiracy-theory territory in terms of what they think MS has been scheming over these last few years.
    BobLobIaw likes this.
    11-06-2015 11:33 AM
  18. a5cent's Avatar
    That reasoning is the most insulting thing Microsoft ever wrote as far as I'm concerned. Read the OneDrive blog comments. I'd rather Satya came out and just said "we miscalculated our costs guys, sorry" if that's what you claim may have happened.
    I'm definitely not going to argue with that. Agreed.

    When Microsoft messed up the launch of Xbox One, they completely misread their customer's priorities and then did a disaster of PR which led to Don eventually fleeing. Sony later admitted they were actual dancing watching the car crash that was Xbox One's launch. Now the console will never be able to close the gap. Its still regarded as one of the biggest launch disasters of all time. This is the same company and not that long ago. But sure, we should trust them and give em the benefit of doubt, right?
    Making a mistake once doesn't mean everything else you do is also a mistake. I seriously hope that's not how people treat you ;-)
    11-06-2015 11:37 AM
  19. theefman's Avatar
    This is the problem. Satya doesn't get in to crisis like this until Fox News gets involved. He's too busy with blue sky thinking, remember his last mess up about female workers pay. That blew up fast because he misread the situation.
    Nah, too busy being a mastermind.....
    11-06-2015 11:42 AM
  20. fgaudet's Avatar
    So what do you propose MS do? Become a charity so people aren't bothered with multiple subscriptions? They just gave away over a hundred million W10 licenses at no cost. They have to be left with something to earn money with.
    Give me a one time purchase cost for a fixed amount of space, like a one time $20 for a permanent 15 GB, with additional 10 GB blocks at $10/10GB. Not sure of the pricing but you get the idea.

    I hate subscription because you need to manage them all; change your credit card and it's havoc, you have to run around and change every frigging one of em, it's a PITA. (I know, I just did that).

    And if there's ever any kind of mess up by the bank/credit card/service provider/whatever and the account isn't paid, what happens, will I just lose all my photos and data? If I go into a coma or become a hobo for a year, will I come back to a cleaned out, terminated OneDrive account?

    Yeah, I know, it's just another $2/month and I'll probably just end up paying it because it's still the easiest solution.
    Last edited by a5cent; 11-06-2015 at 04:25 PM. Reason: language edit
    a5cent likes this.
    11-06-2015 12:05 PM
  21. Tactik's Avatar
    My biggest complaint, which may have been mentioned by others is that once I set up one drive in windows 10 it started uploading my music from my music folder to one drive, the 30 gig was fine for me as I have only 10 gig in music and pictures.
    I have one drive for business which gives me a terabyte but I do not want my personal life uploaded to storage that my boss has access to. ( I am IT and my boss has access to all of our cloud storage)
    I have google drive but it is slow as molasses.
    2 bucks a month is worth 100gig. The ROI on it makes it a deal. MS hosts it, you have access to it from anywhere, they back it up and restore it if there is a problem. But if I can get the space I need for free...
    11-06-2015 12:09 PM
  22. Vishal scorpion's Avatar
    I got 100gb from Bing rewards what will happen to that
    11-06-2015 12:12 PM
  23. fgaudet's Avatar
    On the other hand, I'm not sure how reasonable it is to view online storage as something that is integral to a device purchase. I know that's a popular view, and I don't blame anyone for taking that stance, but I think we've fooled ourselves. If that was actually how things worked, then that online storage would have to be tied to and wander along with the device, so if you sold it, that storage would be sold along with it. That's clearly not how it works though.
    I have to disagree with this. True, the OneDrive storage follows your account, not the physical device. However, those devices are intended to be used with Microsoft accounts. Sure you *can* use WP/Android/iPhone without tying it to an account, but you're clearly missing out if you do so.

    The Microsoft account integration into WP, including OneDrive, is central to the WP experience, just like it is on iPhone and Android. If you handicap a major functionality of those accounts, you're handicapping the platform.
    11-06-2015 12:20 PM
  24. a5cent's Avatar
    Yea... but you ARE speculating, even if they are well educated guesses. Why do I say this?

    Do you know what sort of bulk discount MS gets on its raid storage arrays? I'm guessing.... no
    Do you know how many current people pay into all the various plans? I'm guessing... no
    Do you know the value of the knock-on effects that OneDrive provides? I'm guessing... no
    Your first point is relevant because it's part of the costs of running OneDrive, but again, you're missing the point. It doesn't matter exactly how expensive they are. At any conceivable price (I worked in enterprise IT for twenty years so I have some idea of the costs involved for projects on this scale), it won't change the calculation that the investments are considerable and not something MS can just do as a side project. At any conceivable price, the sum total of all costs are still considerable enough that MS requires the prospect of eventual returns. It's too large of a project for MS to just write it off as charity. If you can't admit to that, for whatever reasons, then you're just in denial of reality. Plain and simple.

    Your second and third points are irrelevant to my argument. They are not a component of the costs of running OneDrive but a part of its returns. I have no idea what MS' returns are. My point is only that whatever those returns may be, they must be large enough to justify the investments, which are undeniably too large for MS (at any conceivable HDD price) to just sweep under the rug.

    You act as if not knowing exact numbers means we can't know anything at all, which is just plain wrong. If you still don't understand that, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

    As for people being conditioned to free, I hate to say it but tough luck on that. Other companies have made "free" very profitable, and you know what? Kudo's to them for figuring it out. The consumer benefits from low cost to free offerings, and the company benefits from increased profits. Everybody wins. I hardly see that as poisoning people's minds, especially in this day and age where people are stretching that dollar like never before.
    I disagree. There is always a price to pay, even if that price isn't coming out of your wallet. I don't want to get into that argument here though.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    11-06-2015 12:29 PM
  25. Krystianpants's Avatar
    There's a lot of good points here no doubt. My guess is that with all these millions of new windows 10 users the OneDrive storage is being eaten away. Let's not forget families who each have their own account. This is likely a good reason to drop storage. However, windows 10 never advertised the given storage so it's not a bad thing to do in this case. The problem is the storage is tied to MS account so it doesn't distinguish the Lumia phone users. If they could come up with a reasonable way to only give Lumia users at least the camera roll bonus it wouldn't be as big of an issue. Tie the account to a credit card in the wallet which would be mandatory if you want it and make sure it's clear users will never be charged. Or even have a single redeem code generated for each unique device. The device would also have to be active on that ms account. To me it's about making mobile popular and giving incentive for those buying the hardware vs. Those getting a free windows update. To me the space is not a big deal, honestly. It's that mobile May suffer from it that worries me.
    11-06-2015 01:05 PM
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