Onedrive storage down to 5GB from 15 + 15GB

[StaticXCC]

Did you see me mention a number or say how expensive it may be? No. You didn't. I stated explicitly that we just can't know the costs the OneDrive service incurs, nor at what point the service becomes too expensive for MS to continue in its present form. Saying we can't know isn't speculating.

Quote you

For every GB someone uses, MS requires 3GB to store it safely, so giving us 15GB actually costs MS 45GB. Hosting that data requires that MS setup multiple, geographically separated facilities that must be maintained and staffed. Adding hundreds if not (more likely) thousands of HDD drives to the storage network every day certainly isn't cheap either. Just thinking of the electricity bills makes me weary, not to mention bandwidth costs.

So... no I didn't see you talk how expensive these might be, except when you are?

Claiming something isn't cheap, and even thinking of the bills "makes you weary" isn't talking about how expensive you think it might be? Then, I must ask.... what is it? From where I stand, you're talking about expenses and how high they can get to the point they make you "weary".

I'm not even discounting your points, but don't go criticizing somebody about their speculating about costs.. while you're speculating about costs.

 

[Sabbir Mollah]

57,000 Votes still no reply from them. Let' s suggest them to add the option to uninstall Onedrive. Because with 5 GB free storage it' s a useless app.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

57,000 Votes still no reply from them.

Maybe they are just running out the clock. Doesn't User Voice close up shop in the very near future?

 

[AlliGe]

I just put all my photos & videos on Flickr and have them auto uplaod. I don't have too many documents so 5gb should be ok for that; however, am done with Windows Phone....Also, thank you Microsoft Bing Rewards for cancelling my account for no reason and stealing my reward points.

 

[wplee]

Either way, you definitely need to learn some manners.

I don't "need" to do anything.

But I've obviously upset your feelings, for which I will apologise. We are all likely Microsoft fans here remember.

My previous point (and maybe sarcastic but it worked) was to help many people here understand that this was purely a Financial decision. Take a look outside of our community to see how Microsoft is being criticized in all quarters. Forbes headline was "Microsoft Betrays the Unlimited Cloud Promise", The Register's headline "Microsoft price hike wrecks its cloud strategy" and The Verge posted "Microsoft is breaking its Cloud-First promise".

Anyone who is not a ****** can clearly see this is bait and switch and if you Bing and read those articles you will see the theme bait and switch throughout. Because that is what Microsoft have done here and their silence despite these all this bad press and OneDrive trending on Twitter speaks volumes.

I'm still getting a Surface Book in January. But I won't defend them on this and can understand people feel betrayed. The storage offer was never advertised as temporary. In the UK, we are also protected from False advertising for those 365 subscribers.

The best way to convert users is to offer paid enhancements/upgrades, not to take stuff away like punishment. Satya says he wants people to love their products, is this the best way to do it? This reminds me of the Xbox One launch all over again, to which Microsoft never fully recovered from.

 

[a5cent]

So... no I didn't see you talk how expensive these might be, except when you are?

Claiming something isn't cheap, and even thinking of the bills "makes you weary" isn't talking about how expensive you think it might be? Then, I must ask.... what is it? From where I stand, you're talking about expenses and how high they can get to the point they make you "weary".

I'm not even discounting your points, but don't go criticizing somebody about their speculating about costs.. while you're speculating about costs.

I'm not speculating that running an online storage service for millions of people is expensive. If you think that's speculating, then it's also speculation that the sky sometimes looks blue or that red roses exist. Thinking otherwise is not speculation. It's just absurd.

Let me put it bluntly. I'm not criticizing anybody for speculating. I'm criticizing people for being wrong. The only valid argument you or anyone else can make is that the terms "expensive" or "cheap" are entirely relative. That's all.

Already in early 2013, MS noted that they had over 250 million OneDrive users.

https://blog.onedrive.com/over-250m-people-using-skydrive/

In 2014, MS had well over four million Office 365 subscribers. That was well before W10 was released, at a time when the only OS that had direct OneDrive integration (W8) was extremely unpopular. I have no idea what OneDrive's current user numbers are. It's almost two years later, and W10 has lead to a huge influx in additional OneDrive users, so no doubt the numbers will be much higher.

I don't know why it's necessary, but I'll help out with the math:

First, let's just outright ignore the millions of 365 subscribers with pseudo-unlimited storage. Lets also assume that not a single user has more than a 15GB storage quota, which we know is false. Finally, lets also assume that MS has grown its OneDrive user base, by no more than 50 million over the past two years, which is also extremely conservative. That leaves us with 300 million users with 15GB of storage (requiring 45GB to store redundantly), giving us a required storage capacity of about 13.2 million TB. Assuming a cost of $50 per TB, that gives us a cost of about 660 million dollars for storage alone... despite low balling every possible variable.

660 million is not chump change, not even for MS, and with that we've considered absolutely nothing except storage costs. We haven't yet factored in software development, staff, facilities, bandwidth, electricity, security... none of that. Let that sink in, and then also consider that according to Paul Thurott, OneDrive usage is expected to triple over the next two years!

Yeah... not expensive... right...

Let me also reiterate that I'm not saying MS can't afford this. They can. What I am saying is that these are not irrelevant expenses that MS can just ignore. Anybody asking the question "whether MS can afford this?" is pretty much clueless. The more relevant question is whether MS is getting their money's worth. Anything that costs hundreds of millions must have at least the prospect of a return. It's not very hard to imagine that MS may not be getting a return that is worthy of those expenses.

I don't know if MS is getting the expected ROI. My point is only, and has always been, that their OneDrive service not providing their money's worth, is not entirely unthinkable.

 

[a5cent]

I don't "need" to do anything.

But I've obviously upset your feelings, for which I will apologise. We are all likely Microsoft fans here remember.

My previous point (and maybe sarcastic but it worked) was to help many people here understand that this was purely a Financial decision.

Don't confuse a friendly recommendation for hurt feelings.

Let's just agree that most business decisions, including OneDrive's policy changes, are financially motivated. We can at least agree on that. As for everything else, I think you're far too sure of your greed-focused hypothesis, particularly since you have absolutely nothing to back your opinions up with.

 

[N_LaRUE]

Quote you


So... no I didn't see you talk how expensive these might be, except when you are?

Claiming something isn't cheap, and even thinking of the bills "makes you weary" isn't talking about how expensive you think it might be? Then, I must ask.... what is it? From where I stand, you're talking about expenses and how high they can get to the point they make you "weary".

I'm not even discounting your points, but don't go criticizing somebody about their speculating about costs.. while you're speculating about costs.

Where I won't argue completely against what you're saying I will suggest there is a difference in the two posts and why a5cent said what he said.

The other post assumes a cost based on personal assumption, totally void of any realistic numbers. The first being that data centre drives are not the same cost as a personal hard drive. That's just the physical hard drive I'm talking about. I haven't even got to the other wrong points.

Here's the thing. Data centres are not cheap. You have a lot of expenses which we are not able to cost correctly by any means because unless you're in the know (which I'm not) then you haven't a clue. But to speculate like a5cent in the right way you start to put realism into the numbers.

So let's think in real terms shall we?

- You need a building, likely to be either built for purpose or leased
- You need a good HVAC system to maintain temperature
- You need a maintenance staff to deal with downtime and to exchange drives
- You need spares on hand for replacements
- You have racks of data centre hard drives (more expensive than your portable hard drive)
- You have racks for the drives
- Data switches, routers, etc.
- You have energy bills to pay

That's just one data centre. MS likely has hundreds. So looking at that think of the expense in real terms, not in some flighty idealistic term.

Yes I agree what MS is doing is total BS and should be taken to task for it. However, we all seem to think things should be cheap and free. That's where we go wrong.

I do believe that MS should do loyalty things for their customers. That was the main mistake in all this. They've really screwed their reputation over this.

 

[Ten Four]

Speculation on the costs/profits is just that, speculation. Presumably, Microsoft had a much better handle on the numbers than we will ever have, and they either got it completely wrong or they intended this as a bait-and-switch all along. Frankly, I remember saying this very thing when "unlimited" storage was announced. At the time I speculated that this was only to lure in Office365 customers, but I didn't imagine they were also using 15GB + 15GB Camera Roll to lure in Lumia users before they put the hammer down. Nowhere do I recall reading something like "limited time offer," that would make this somewhat more palatable. In fact, as I type this there is advertising all over the place promoting the unlimited plans and the free 15GB Camera Roll, etc. OK, change plans and pricing, but there should be some grandfathering in of old plans to keep loyal customers around. As many have said, the cloud is all about trust and this move just destroyed any trust millions of people have that the cloud will be there for them when they need and want it.

 

[StaticXCC]

Let me put it bluntly. I'm not criticizing anybody for speculating. I'm criticizing people for being wrong. The only valid argument you or anyone else can make is that the terms "expensive" or "cheap" are entirely relative. That's all.

*sigh* I don't think you really understand what I'm talking about, because if you did, you wouldn't have typed all that well written stuff under it. Again, I'm NOT disputing what you're saying below or above. my issue was you telling somebody who makes a probably misinformed breaking the bank comment and then you saying it's impossible to estimate without hard numbers.... and then you start throwing numbers around. Then you continued with this.

Did you see me mention a number or say how expensive it may be? No. You didn't.

Yea well... everything you've been saying has been leaning towards the service being expensive to deploy. Heck, you just said "Yea.... not expensive.... right...." Care to drop this point?

And I don't think you've mentioned it, but somebody tried to counter my argument that storage is getting cheaper all the time. I hate to say it, but if storage wasn't getting cheaper all the time, then cloud storage wouldn't be viable at all. Instead we have all sorts of companies offering cloud storage now, offering bigger storage amounts all the time. Plus you've got a number of new technologies that look like once they hit the ground floor will revolutionize storage with crazy size.

Personally, my only problem is Microsoft clearly said they want you to put ALL YOUR STUFF on OneDrive. They even made a advertisement about it.

Just Bing or Google bw1ciTl5YK4, it's a youtube video with the add. I'd link it but I can't post links yet on WC.

It Goes! It GROWS WITH YOU! One place for all your PHOTOS! VIDEOS! DOCUMENTS!

It grows so well it.... shrinks and you get charged more... to be more PRODUCTIVE! YEA!

ahahaha right

 

[a5cent]

Speculation on the costs/profits is just that, speculation. Presumably, Microsoft had a much better handle on the numbers than we will ever have, and they either got it completely wrong or they intended this as a bait-and-switch all along.

You're right about all that, yet you're entirely missing the point. We don't have to know exact details about costs/profits. We only have to know whether the costs are negligible to MS or not. Concluding that the costs are not negligible is not speculation! Anybody with kindergarten level math skills should be able to deduce that fact. What that means is that MS requires something concrete to show in return for those investments, which opens the door to lines of reasoning other than the black/white greed/bait&switch hypothesis.

I think a lot of people here are totally misunderstanding me. I'm not rejecting the idea that baiting and switching was the plan all along. It very well may have been, at least partially. What I am opposed to is people who are so arrogant as to presume they know that's exactly how everything went down.

I was initially in the camp of those who speculated that this was most likely a bait & switch tactic. In light of all the recent reporting I've come to change my mind. I still think that may have been part of the equation, but I'm very sceptical that was the only factor involved. That's all I'm saying here, and I'm doing my best to try and back it up.

I'm still in the camp of those who think MS completely fumbled the communications aspect of all this. That's the only OneDrive related opinion I have that hasn't changed.

 

[Roy Corneloues BT]

Unlimited storage was only ever in preview. Never released. I don't hink our conusmer protection covers us for that!

 

[a5cent]

*sigh* I don't think you really understand what I'm talking about, because if you did, you wouldn't have typed all that well written stuff under it. Again, I'm NOT disputing what you're saying below or above.

I know. You're the one who doesn't understand though. I never said I'm criticizing you or your opinions (I'm criticizing others). I realize that we agree on most issues. The only disagreement we have is that you think I'm speculating, when I'm clearly not.

I would be speculating if I'd be setting up a balance sheet of what I think OneDrive's cost structure looks like. I'm not.

There is but one single thing you need to believe for all my other points to make sense, and that is that the expenses incurred by running the OneDrive service are not negligible. Coming to that conclusion doesn't require speculation. There is enough information out there for anyone with elementary math skills to prove that to themselves. I think that's the only relevant disagreement we have.

 

[Reflexx]

Regardless of the costs associated with unlimited storage, using that as an excuse to drop down the storage for the free brackets for existing users and getting rid of the 15 GB camera roll bonus just feels like deception.

 

[cmucodemonkey]

Regardless of the costs associated with unlimited storage, using that as an excuse to drop down the storage for the free brackets for existing users and getting rid of the 15 GB camera roll bonus just feels like deception.

Absolutely agree. I have no issue with putting a cap on the top level plans. If you consider storing 75 TB of data to be excessive, then cap it at a more reasonable level. But Microsoft shouldn't punish the users who are being responsible with their data limit.

 

[weiser159]

It really is kind of bait and switch when you consider they marketed OneDrive so heavily to promote the Lumia phones. I'm not saying it's illegal, but rather simply unethical. I'm not the type to expect free stuff. The issue here is I don't really consider OneDrive to fall in that category when you consider MS was marketing it together with the phones as a feature. NOW they shave off 2/3 of the space (5/6 if you count the +15 GB). Either that's more MS poor planning or they're being deceitful. Considering all the privacy issues with Windows 10, I'm going with the deceitful tag. I just don't see any good reasons for taking away that much storage for Lumia owners. And yes, I'm specifically referring to Lumia owners. I'm not saying MS owes me free general storage. Just allow the Lumia owners to continue backing up and accessing their media content through OneDrive.

It's kind of funny how the media was getting worried about a potential Windows 10 OS subscription someday when it turns out OneDrive was probably the plan all along haha. I gotta say, it's brilliant! The drug dealer analogy works. Get us hooked for free and then start charging us!

 

[cmucodemonkey]

Just read Paul Thurott's article on this issue and I think he made an interesting point when discussing Google Drive. The various tiers available for purchase make it possible to get as much storage as you need. If you look at the OneDrive offerings (as of 2016) it jumps from 5 GB to 50 GB to 1 TB. If you need anything in between you either have to fork over more money for space you won't use or be simply SOL.

Microsoft OneDrive
Free storage: 5 GB
Paid storage: 50 GB for $2 per month ($24 per year)
Paid storage: 1 TB for $70 per year (Office 365 Personal) or $100 per year (Office 365 Home, up to 5 users)
Camera backup: Windows phone, Android, iOS (full quality)
Advantages: Built-in to Windows 10, broad coverage on mobile devices.
Disadvantages: Unreliable. Poor performance. No way to access folders you don?t sync in File Explorer.

Google Drive
Free storage: 15 GB
Paid storage: 100 GB for $2 per month ($24 per year)
Paid storage: 1 TB for $10 per month ($120 per year)
Paid storage: 10 TB for $100 per month ($1200 per year)
Paid storage: 20 TB for $200 per month ($2400 per year)
Paid storage: 30 TB for $300 per month ($3600 per year)
Camera backup: Android, iOS
Advantages: Lots of free storage, can pay for as much storage as you need.
Disadvantages: Google is untrustworthy. No Windows phone client. No 1 TB incremental tiers.

https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/micr...e/7637/considering-your-cloud-storage-options

 

[weiser159]

Another thing I think deserves being pointed out is that a lot of people aren't necessarily concerned with the cost of buying cloud storage at $2/mo, but rather they don't like the thought of adding yet another subscription to their life. I know I'm in that category. I hate to think I have all these tiny subscriptions floating around all over the place. Also, the dating website or music streaming service analogy can be made. They each like to say "it's only $10/mo." What about all the other services that make the same argument? All of a sudden $10/mo is a lot because I have to multiply it by 10 or 20!

 

[a5cent]

Another thing I think deserves being pointed out is that a lot of people aren't necessarily concerned with the cost of buying cloud storage at $2/mo, but rather they don't like the thought of adding yet another subscription to their life. I know I'm in that category. I hate to think I have all these tiny subscriptions floating around all over the place. Also, the dating website or music streaming service analogy can be made. They each like to say "it's only $10/mo." What about all the other services that make the same argument? All of a sudden $10/mo is a lot because I have to multiply it by 10 or 20!

So what do you propose MS do? Become a charity so people aren't bothered with multiple subscriptions? They just gave away over a hundred million W10 licenses at no cost. They have to be left with something to earn money with.

 

[weiser159]

So what do you propose MS do? Become a charity so people aren't bothered with multiple subscriptions? They just gave away over a hundred million W10 licenses at no cost. They have to be left with something to earn money with. It seems to me they're having difficulty competing with Google's "have everything for free but be the product" business model.

In my previous post I mentioned how it would have been proper to continue supporting media content backup for Lumia phones with the same 15 GB since they were promoting OneDrive as a key feature for the phones. I specifically said MS doesn't owe us general storage. Considering the mess that their phones have been for years now I just find it odd they would make this decision NOW. I'm not gonna make this an argument, but I don't see how your point defeats mine. They're not mutually exclusive. Just because I spoke negatively of the $1.99/mo sub, doesn't mean I am against the concept of charging for storage, whatever the tiers and costs may be.