Onedrive storage down to 5GB from 15 + 15GB

[Koeysig]

Can you give an example of something a corporation has given you for free forever? Cream and sugar doesn't count. . . .

Sony included 50GB subcriptions to box.com with their smartphones a few years ago. Their exact words were "for life".
In any case it's a pretty absurd question, most corporations do not demand their product back after you already paid for it unless it's a clear rental or subscription service. The fault in your logic is that you somehow have gotten the idea that Microsoft gifted us somthing for nothing - it was clearly and labelled as a part of the package when buying a Windows Phone. Those who just created their free accounts without purchase of the hardware have no case and clearly should pay or switch service if the new terms are not to their liking. The rest of us are entitled to what we paid for.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Sony included 50GB subcriptions to box.com with their smartphones a few years ago. Their exact words were "for life".

It wasn't free but National Lampoon had a lifetime subscription option in the '70s. The fine print specified it was for the lifetime of a newt which was about 3 years. What did Sony's fine print say?

 

[xandros9]

It wasn't free but National Lampoon had a lifetime subscription option in the '70s. The fine print specified it was for the lifetime of a newt which was about 3 years. What did Sony's fine print say?

Got the webOS Box.com 50 GB bonus.

Only caveat yet is the 250 MB single file size limit and lack of camera uploading in the app.

 

[BobLobIaw]

Sony included 50GB subcriptions to box.com with their smartphones a few years ago. Their exact words were "for life".
In any case it's a pretty absurd question, most corporations do not demand their product back after you already paid for it unless it's a clear rental or subscription service. The fault in your logic is that you somehow have gotten the idea that Microsoft gifted us somthing for nothing - it was clearly and labelled as a part of the package when buying a Windows Phone. Those who just created their free accounts without purchase of the hardware have no case and clearly should pay or switch service if the new terms are not to their liking. The rest of us are entitled to what we paid for.

If you haven't picked up my point of emphasis, it is on the word "forever." I don't know about the Sony but I find it to be unusual and there is probably more to the story. But let's look at your MS example: you buy a Windows Phone that typically has a useful life of two years unless it is a Lumia 920 and then it's three. :smile: Why on earth would a reasonable person assume that the extra cloud storage that you *bought* is forever? The phone isn't forever, so why would the free storage be? There's a common sense element to this set of assumptions that just doesn't jive with your viewpoint.

wplee is the only one I've read that points out a truly legitimate beef, but even then, I'm not sure that he's getting rooked out of more than a few months at best, considering the earliest his free storage will be cut will be sometime in 2017.

Edit-I looked up the Sony/Box promotion and note that during that time (2013) Box was running the same promotion for anyone, not just Sony phone purchasers. Note also that they actually said "free forever" as opposed to the competing Dropbox promotions with HTC and Samsung, which were limited to two years.

 

[BobLobIaw]

I think the OneDrive situation is similar. Since I paid for a Microsoft device, I should have free unlimited OneDrive storage. I'd be upset if I went to McDonald's, and they had removed the soda fountain and I wouldn't get a free refill. This is why we are upset over the OneDrive situation.

What you are really asking for is the equivalent of a case of soda per week because you bought a dollar hamburger. Free unlimited OneDrive because you bought a Lumia? Yeah, no unrealistic expectations there!

 

[tgp]

What you are really asking for is the equivalent of a case of soda per week because you bought a dollar hamburger. Free unlimited OneDrive because you bought a Lumia? Yeah, no unrealistic expectations there!

I see that my terminology didn't convey my meaning. I didn't mean that I personally feel that way, but I'm saying that people in general do, mainly because it is something that is being taken away. We Americans are accustomed to free unlimited perks as I mentioned.

I realize that our society is unique in that way. I remember the first couple times I went to Europe, many years ago. I couldn't believe that things like ketchup and sodas were restricted, especially since the meals were so outrageously expensive to begin with! I can go to McDonald's here and buy a 99? hamburger and put a gallon of ketchup on it if I please, at no extra charge. Or I can buy a $1.00 soda and sit there all day and refill it 100 times if I please, again at no extra charge.

But even so, your analogy is not very accurate. A case of soda is worth several times a hamburger. I think that the free 30GB of OneDrive storage is very reasonable for buying a Lumia device.

 

[BobLobIaw]

I see that my terminology didn't convey my meaning. I didn't mean that I personally feel that way, but I'm saying that people in general do, mainly because it is something that is being taken away. We Americans are accustomed to free unlimited perks as I mentioned.

I realize that our society is unique in that way. I remember the first couple times I went to Europe, many years ago. I couldn't believe that things like ketchup and sodas were restricted, especially since the meals were so outrageously expensive to begin with! I can go to McDonald's here and buy a 99? hamburger and put a gallon of ketchup on it if I please, at no extra charge. Or I can buy a $1.00 soda and sit there all day and refill it 100 times if I please, again at no extra charge.

But even so, your analogy is not very accurate. A case of soda is worth several times a hamburger. I think that the free 30GB of OneDrive storage is very reasonable for buying a Lumia device.

I understand your societal point now and agree that Americans get a lot of free stuff, particularly when it comes to food and drink. There's a good reason why we are obese! I think free 30GB of OneDrive storage is reasonable for the useful life of a WP as I've mentioned. After that, it becomes unreasonable. It becomes doubly unreasonable when you realize this offer was included with many WP models that were essentially given away to the customers. Sorry, but I don't feel like someone who spent fifty bucks on an entry-level Lumia should be hopping up and down demanding free cloud storage for life. That would definitely be a hamburger/case of soda moment right there.

 

[Koeysig]

It wasn't free but National Lampoon had a lifetime subscription option in the '70s. The fine print specified it was for the lifetime of a newt which was about 3 years. What did Sony's fine print say?

I don't remember what the fine print said and I no longer have the phone so I can't check. In any case it's not really relevant.
You can not advertise something and then specify something radically different in the fine print, despite what some people here seem to believe. That is called misleading advertising and in such a case the original promise is legally binding. At least it is so in my country, and I suspect in most developed nations. That said, it's rarely worth the time to force a corporation to honour their word through the courts unless the sums involved are huge. Here, even if you win, you must still pay your own legal fees. Microsoft might get away with this but technically, they are wrong.
Their worst loss is of course the badwill this is causing them. Microsoft is not Apple, they do not have the unconditional loyalty of their users no matter how bad they treat them.

 

[Koeysig]

If you haven't picked up my point of emphasis, it is on the word "forever." I don't know about the Sony but I find it to be unusual and there is probably more to the story. But let's look at your MS example: you buy a Windows Phone that typically has a useful life of two years unless it is a Lumia 920 and then it's three. :smile: Why on earth would a reasonable person assume that the extra cloud storage that you *bought* is forever? The phone isn't forever, so why would the free storage be? There's a common sense element to this set of assumptions that just doesn't jive with your viewpoint.

wplee is the only one I've read that points out a truly legitimate beef, but even then, I'm not sure that he's getting rooked out of more than a few months at best, considering the earliest his free storage will be cut will be sometime in 2017.

Edit-I looked up the Sony/Box promotion and note that during that time (2013) Box was running the same promotion for anyone, not just Sony phone purchasers. Note also that they actually said "free forever" as opposed to the competing Dropbox promotions with HTC and Samsung, which were limited to two years.

Firstly the Sony promotion was not limited to 2013 it actually ran for a few years (2011-2014) and was unrelated to whatever offer box.com may have had for other users.

A subcription or account is personal and can't be inherited so "forever" would be incorrect obviously. A more fitting description would be "for life", which is the actual description Sony gave (i checked). This was something that could be easily afforded by a company that was hemorrhaging money elsewhere. Microsoft come across as stingy and unreliable in comparison.

Also, you are not the one to decide what is a useful lifetime for a phone, it may not be top of the line anymore after a couple of years but it may very well be perfectly adequate for someone who doesn't have a need to replace their perfectly functional phone every two years. I would agree that it's unreasonable to expect the storage to be forever and untied to the phone it was included with, unless otherwise specified as such as with the case of Sony, but the minimum would be for as long as the phone is used.

 

[Koeysig]

I understand your societal point now and agree that Americans get a lot of free stuff, particularly when it comes to food and drink. There's a good reason why we are obese! I think free 30GB of OneDrive storage is reasonable for the useful life of a WP as I've mentioned. After that, it becomes unreasonable. It becomes doubly unreasonable when you realize this offer was included with many WP models that were essentially given away to the customers. Sorry, but I don't feel like someone who spent fifty bucks on an entry-level Lumia should be hopping up and down demanding free cloud storage for life. That would definitely be a hamburger/case of soda moment right there.

I can't post links (too few posts or something) but I'd advise you to lookup something called "Hoover's free flights fiasco". That company had the same set of thinking as you do. Also look what their representative called a Mr David Dixon for believing Hoover would honour their word when he bought their product (for those of you who don't want to look it up, he was called an *****[lets just say "unintlligent person"]). Lots of hilarious material online about that disastrous campaign, it did not end well for the company.

 

[BobLobIaw]

Firstly the Sony promotion was not limited to 2013 it actually ran for a few years (2011-2014) and was unrelated to whatever offer box.com may have had for other users.

A subcription or account is personal and can't be inherited so "forever" would be incorrect obviously. A more fitting description would be "for life", which is the actual description Sony gave (i checked). This was something that could be easily afforded by a company that was hemorrhaging money elsewhere. Microsoft come across as stingy and unreliable in comparison.

Also, you are not the one to decide what is a useful lifetime for a phone, it may not be top of the line anymore after a couple of years but it may very well be perfectly adequate for someone who doesn't have a need to replace their perfectly functional phone every two years. I would agree that it's unreasonable to expect the storage to be forever and untied to the phone it was included with, unless otherwise specified as such as with the case of Sony, but the minimum would be for as long as the phone is used.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that MS is coming across as stingy. I have interpreted their actions to mean that they wanted to cut back on the people who were given extra free storage but weren't spending money on MS services. It seems obvious that they are now targeting a different audience--the Office365 audience that typically buys a variety of MS services (think Work & Play Bundle customers). It's also pretty clear that they wanted to align themselves with the Apple model for free storage (5GB). I'm not saying it's good or bad business because I don't know how it will shake out. The issue we are talking about stems from a group of posters that I feel come across as overly-entitled. I've given my reasons for that and at this point am probably beating a dead horse.

Of course I think the best plan would have been for MS to directly link the 30GB with "the phone" but that's not how it was set up. It's tied to personal accounts, so you could have bought a Lumia 520 for pennies, get your 30GB, sell the phone a day later and keep the 30GB free cloud storage. Your desire, while a good one, is not enforceable. Nevertheless, they must be aware of the issue because eliminating cutbacks for customers who are using more than 5GB until 2017 dovetails with the useful lifespan of existing Lumia devices.

With respect to your "for life" example, the advertising needs to say "for life" or "for two years" or some specific duration; otherwise, a consumer should read the terms and conditions. Those terms clearly say in several places that the terms can be modified on notice. Should MS have been more upfront about it? Absolutely, but they probably intended to give the storage out indefinitely, then did an audit of the service and realized that they were losing a bunch of money in those two areas: >1TB and <30GB. If there's one thing I've noticed about MS and other tech corps, it is that nothing ever stays the same. Deals come and go, services come and go, and people should expect the unexpected for it will happen. And read the small print--it matters.

 

[Reflexx]

Can you give an example of something a corporation has given you for free forever? Cream and sugar doesn't count. . . .

"Life of their account" and "forever" are not the same thing.

But how about Dropbox? Google? Copy? Etc... You know... anyone that gives cloud storage that has kept their free amount the same as what they told you when you signed up? And when you earned additional storage, they let you keep that too.

 

[Reflexx]

I agree that grandfathering would have been much better for WP users, but I don't see anywhere in the Dropbox terms and conditions that says they are providing storage for life on those terms. In fact, they say they can modify any terms with prior notice. Just like MS.

Except they haven't done just like MS.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

 

[BobLobIaw]

"Life of their account" and "forever" are not the same thing.

But how about Dropbox? Google? Copy? Etc... You know... anyone that gives cloud storage that has kept their free amount the same as what they told you when you signed up? And when you earned additional storage, they let you keep that too.

Read the terms and conditions. You are not guaranteed a certain amount of free storage for the life of your account.

Except they haven't done just like MS.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

Except they haven't done just like MS yet. FYP.

 

[xandros9]

Except they haven't done just like MS yet. FYP.

Well it still doesn't put Microsoft in the right here. It's not what they CAN do, its what they do.

 

[Reflexx]

Read the terms and conditions. You are not guaranteed a certain amount of free storage for the life of your account.

So?

Except they haven't done just like MS yet. FYP.

Yup. They haven't. And MS has.

 

[Koeysig]

Don't get me wrong, I agree that MS is coming across as stingy. I have interpreted their actions to mean that they wanted to cut back on the people who were given extra free storage but weren't spending money on MS services. It seems obvious that they are now targeting a different audience--the Office365 audience that typically buys a variety of MS services (think Work & Play Bundle customers). It's also pretty clear that they wanted to align themselves with the Apple model for free storage (5GB). I'm not saying it's good or bad business because I don't know how it will shake out. The issue we are talking about stems from a group of posters that I feel come across as overly-entitled. I've given my reasons for that and at this point am probably beating a dead horse.

Of course I think the best plan would have been for MS to directly link the 30GB with "the phone" but that's not how it was set up. It's tied to personal accounts, so you could have bought a Lumia 520 for pennies, get your 30GB, sell the phone a day later and keep the 30GB free cloud storage. Your desire, while a good one, is not enforceable. Nevertheless, they must be aware of the issue because eliminating cutbacks for customers who are using more than 5GB until 2017 dovetails with the useful lifespan of existing Lumia devices.

With respect to your "for life" example, the advertising needs to say "for life" or "for two years" or some specific duration; otherwise, a consumer should read the terms and conditions. Those terms clearly say in several places that the terms can be modified on notice. Should MS have been more upfront about it? Absolutely, but they probably intended to give the storage out indefinitely, then did an audit of the service and realized that they were losing a bunch of money in those two areas: >1TB and <30GB. If there's one thing I've noticed about MS and other tech corps, it is that nothing ever stays the same. Deals come and go, services come and go, and people should expect the unexpected for it will happen. And read the small print--it matters.

I don't really think you can be "overly-entitled" when it comes to something you have paid for. We ARE entitled to what we bought - period.
But fine, that is your opinion and everyone is entitled to their own However I am of the opinion that Microsoft must honour their part of the deal even if they believe that the cost isn't worth the benefits anymore. The vast majority of people also seem to share my opinion.

It's their own choice to design Onedrive the way they did, it would be entirely enforceable to restrict it to the hardware if it was what they wished. Also if you sold the phone today I'm guessing you would remain with 15GB not 30GB, as then you would not have the camera bonus anymore. I haven't exactly checked but I assume that when the account is deleted from the phone, the bonus 15GB goes away.
While your definition of "useful lifespan" may be true for you, it isn't universal. It might still be useful for others. As long as the product isn't broken I would argue it is still useful.

Fine print isn't a magical tool to release you of any of your responsibilities. While the fine print matters, consumer laws still ultimately apply.

 

[wplee]

Of course I think the best plan would have been for MS to directly link the 30GB with "the phone" but that's not how it was set up. It's tied to personal accounts, so you could have bought a Lumia 520 for pennies, get your 30GB, sell the phone a day later and keep the 30GB free cloud storage. Your desire, while a good one, is not enforceable. Nevertheless, they must be aware of the issue because eliminating cutbacks for customers who are using more than 5GB until 2017 dovetails with the useful lifespan of existing Lumia devices.

Absolutely, but they probably intended to give the storage out indefinitely, then did an audit of the service and realized that they were losing a bunch of money in those two areas: >1TB and <30GB.

The easiest way is to simply say that devices where the 30GB have been applied to the Microsoft account keep it for life like the Box example. This would seem the simplest option, they would need to so nothing and no administration. But that doesn't actually mean life of course but the lifetime of the device because eventually users will hit the 30GB limit and need to pay. If they were stingy, they could also set a year 2020 expiration and then challenge that all devices sold between 2013-2015 have now exceeded this lifetime as a realistic smartphone lifetime.

The other alternative is swapping a device's IMEI number for a 30GB OneDrive voucher code that we could claim. But this potentially could create a 2nd black market for these codes, though I'm not sure how many would realistically bother doing all this for 30GB.
I see the 30GB and 1TB as two separate offers. The 30GB is tied to the Lumia. 1TB is tied to Office 365. While Lumia users may be able to take advantage of free 1TB for 1 year, this is simply to encourage Office 365 and has nothing to do with Lumia.

 

[wplee]

....Another option is to allow Camera Roll/Uploads on the OneDrive Lumia app only. This would require a bit of work on Microsoft's backend but basically the Lumia OneDrive app could continue to upload until 30GB is exceeded. This 30GB data could be then be accessed/downloaded on non-Lumia devices but not uploaded on say an Android which prevents users leaving the platform.

There is a financial advantage for Microsoft's audit team here too. If someone is keeping their Lumia a couple of extra years for this 30GB OneDrive, they are also an active user for the Windows platform. This helps drive new developers here. It also means that the Lumia user is likely to be using services like Bing (ads), Outlook (ads on web), In App Purchases (Microsoft earn 30%) etc.

 

[wplee]

Update: 25th Nov

Just to advise everyone that this is STILL being investigated here in the UK by the ASA & Consumer Ombudsman. The fact that our complaints are still active after this time is hopefully a good sign.

As always guys, I will update this thread as soon as I get an update. For those who are interested in the UK complaint can read so below:

http://forums.windowscentral.com/on...ally-complain-about-onedrive-mis-selling.html