[canesfan625]

Actually I had a huge probably 2 page response to your useless post but I decided it wasn't worth my time. If you look at my posting history here and elsewhere I think you can find all the relevant responses within. I've pretty much covered that stuff ad infinitum already.

Nothing in these threads is new info. It's only shocking that after almost a year and a half most of the original complaints about these things still exist in the platform given the level of competition they are facing (or rather, trying to be percieved as).

And don't quote someone else in an attempt to troll me. It's disingenuous.

Android started surging in 09, that's not a matter of perspective. It's fact. By Mid 2010 it had already Eclipsed RIM and pretty much demolished Windows Mobile and WebOS. Early 2010 is when we started seeing the start of the rush of Android superphones flooding the market.

Oh, and AT&T didn't even have an Android device (and certainly not any high end ones) until their iPhone exclusivity was about to end, so Android did this mostly with 3 carriers in the beginning. T-Mobile, Verizon, and Sprint + the Nexus One.

Obviously that is probably not even possible these days because Android only really had to contend with Apple back then (BB and WinMo users were clamoring for an alternative, or to save money to buy an iPhone). It's much harder now. Which means Microsoft needs to go even further than Apple and Google to please current and potential users. Because, those users have excellent alternatives available. So, while you may be absolutely cool with dealing with a bad notification system, another users may see no use to "settle" when they can buy Android or iOS and never have to deal with it.

Nevermind the whole "wait for Apollo" business which is kind of laughable.

Your analogies make my chuckle.

Based on which research firms magical numbers? Gartner and Neilsen had Android at like under 5% until 2010. This need to brag about pointless numbers goes way back to a consistent need for validation we see come with Android on a regular basis. It should be obvious by now that no one cares. We picked WP7 for particular reasons that have nothing to do with how cool everyone else thinks it is or isn't.

And since we are bringing up settling why should we go with a platform where you have to deal with horrid battery life, fragmentation, growing security issues, horrid text based UI, getting bent over consistently by not getting updates (look at the galaxy S not getting ICS. WHY? It has some of the same hardware as the nexus S which is getting it) Droid Pro launched DOA as its not getting updates and we will settle for this for what exactly? Surely a notification system isn't the best example you can come up with? Why is wait for Apollo laughable? With Android it was wait all the way through 2.2 and iOS was wait all the way through iOS3.

How many of Androids units sold are people upgrading every other update because there are no hardware standards?

[Big Supes]

Why did you name yourself after an EverQuest Dragon? XD

If they had a Global Notification Cache, that would not be an issue. THe problem is that it makes you scroll more, which may not seem like a lot but it adds up. It's not just about how the phone plays in a 10 minute carrier store session. It's about using it day in and day out for potentially years. After a while you realize that the wasted space makes you do more work to accomplish the same tasks. A lot of things suffer from this, from the start screen, to the app list, to core interface elements (huge text banners in HUBs, e.g.) to third party applications who are adhering to the UI guidelines.

After a while, it starts looking less snazzy and more lazy. The UI looks like a rush job that they put together to ensure it would never require much work or effort. I don't know why people keep trying to say you want it to be this or that. Intimidated? If Metro was so hot than WP would have more than 2% marketshare. It's been a year. By this time Android was starting to surge. There's nothing going on with this platform, ATM and I don't expect yet another phone that looks like another running on an LTE network that barely has any coverage is going to change that soon...

Oh, please, N8ter. Are the Android forums really that boring?

As for the person above I cannot even fathom trying to respond to that hot mess. I've figured out that avoiding the people who cut posts into pieces and respond to almost every item with nonsense is the best way to avoid arguments on internet forums.

Yep, it's been noticed that you really substantiate each point you make. Personally, I'm tired of your antics. Welcome to my ignore list.

[Roadkillin]

And since we are bringing up settling why should we go with a platform where you have to deal with horrid battery life, fragmentation, growing security issues, horrid text based UI, getting bent over consistently by not getting updates (look at the galaxy S not getting ICS. WHY? It has some of the same hardware as the nexus S which is getting it) Droid Pro launched DOA as its not getting updates and we will settle for this for what exactly? Surely a notification system isn't the best example you can come up with? Why is wait for Apollo laughable? With Android it was wait all the way through 2.2 and iOS was wait all the way through iOS3.

Alright, I'll tell you why I'm not settling because of this.
First of all, virtually all of the people I see complaining about horrid battery life come from a SINGLE manufacturer. HTC has historically used smaller batteries than the other OEMs, while putting the skin on with the highest resource requirements. When you compare the phones with their stated battery life, every HTC phone varies between 4-6 hours of talk time. Comparitively most Samsung's and Motorola's prior to the Atrix would be rated for 8-10 hours. The newer Motorolas are even higher at 10-12.

My WP7, the HTC Surround, has absolutely horrible battery life, and can not make it through half a day. I don't use that as a reason why I dislike the operating system, because it is a fault of the phone and the OEM, not the software.

Also, the "fragmentation" is nothing more than a buzzword, and is for the most part a fallacy in the view of the users. Apps are built based on Android 2.1/2.2, with only a small percentage unable to operate on the older phones. Also, in my years I have only run into a small handful that do not operate on my device because of my manufacturer or other restrictions.

I have no idea what you're referring to with the "horrid text based ui", unless you're referring to icons and settings informing the user what they are. I know one of my annoyances within WP7 is the miniscule icons at the bottom of every app that are always a complete mystery because there's no logic, or text telling you what they do.

Also, the android version updates are largely unnecessary. Phones on the older OS versions are still as functional as they were the day they were purchased. In fact I much rather how Google and the OEMs work the updates over how Apple does it.

I used the iPhone 3G, for three years. It started out as every other iPhone, with every feature identical. Then, the 3Gs came out and all the update added was cut-and-paste, as well as added lag and a decrease in battery life. Then the iPhone 4 came out, and just allowed me to listen to the iPod app while playing games or surfing the internet. Meanwhile it completely killed my battery life, where it would drain completely within 2-4 hours if it was on, and the lag was so bad I would type complete paragraphs before the text would ever show up.
Apples updates seem to be to screw over the older phones, and dangle the awesome features as a carrot on a stick to force you into the upgrade.

[canesfan625]

Alright, I'll tell you why I'm not settling because of this.
First of all, virtually all of the people I see complaining about horrid battery life come from a SINGLE manufacturer. HTC has historically used smaller batteries than the other OEMs, while putting the skin on with the highest resource requirements. When you compare the phones with their stated battery life, every HTC phone varies between 4-6 hours of talk time. Comparitively most Samsung's and Motorola's prior to the Atrix would be rated for 8-10 hours. The newer Motorolas are even higher at 10-12.

I will certainly give you that about HTC. However its not just a hardware thing or specific to HTC. One of my friends just got the galaxy s II and its garbage on battery. He cant make it though an entire day without charging. I had a similar experience with Android. Google blames 3rd party apps though. I have the arrive now and it has been awesome on battery. I can use it all day just fine. Haven't had that luck on previous HTC devices though.

Also, the "fragmentation" is nothing more than a buzzword, and is for the most part a fallacy in the view of the users. Apps are built based on Android 2.1/2.2, with only a small percentage unable to operate on the older phones. Also, in my years I have only run into a small handful that do not operate on my device because of my manufacturer or other restrictions.

This is like Eric Schmidt calling it differentiation and not fragmentation. You are still going to end up with incompatibilities across different devices. Its happening on all levels too. OS/device/app/etc. Google Android Update Alliance anyone? They are requiring the stock Holo theme just because of user experience.. Didn't Microsoft and PalmOS go through something similar that caused devs to stop developing?

I have no idea what you're referring to with the "horrid text based ui", unless you're referring to icons and settings informing the user what they are. I know one of my annoyances within WP7 is the miniscule icons at the bottom of every app that are always a complete mystery because there's no logic, or text telling you what they do.

At least in the past Android has had issues with text size and screen crowding. I agree with the icons at the bottom though. At least you can expand the context menu though I guess.

Also, the android version updates are largely unnecessary. Phones on the older OS versions are still as functional as they were the day they were purchased. In fact I much rather how Google and the OEMs work the updates over how Apple does it.

Yeah but thats no excuse to just not roll out updates. Just look at how upset WP7 users have got over not getting the minor updates. Maybe unnecessary to you but what if I want the enhancements, or features, or bug/security fixes? I shouldn't have to upgrade my device or install a custom rom just because Samsung doesn't feel like bringing an update to a device that can actually run it.

I used the iPhone 3G, for three years. It started out as every other iPhone, with every feature identical. Then, the 3Gs came out and all the update added was cut-and-paste, as well as added lag and a decrease in battery life. Then the iPhone 4 came out, and just allowed me to listen to the iPod app while playing games or surfing the internet. Meanwhile it completely killed my battery life, where it would drain completely within 2-4 hours if it was on, and the lag was so bad I would type complete paragraphs before the text would ever show up.
Apples updates seem to be to screw over the older phones, and dangle the awesome features as a carrot on a stick to force you into the upgrade.

I am just referring to the missing features of WP7 arguments. There are some that act like this is the first time in the history of phones that a phone has launched missing stuff for a time. It was the same for Android and iOS as well

[wolf1891]

Oh, please, N8ter. Are the Android forums really that boring?



Yep, it's been noticed that you really substantiate each point you make. Personally, I'm tired of your antics. Welcome to my ignore list.

heck, he's been on my ignore list for a while now (along with a few other "winners"). makes this place much more enjoyable.

[KingCrimson]

You know if some of you so-called UI designers are so damn good, why don't you apply to Microsoft's Windows Phone UI design team and improve it instead of *****ing like a bunch of spoiled brats.

[Calidude]

You know if some of you so-called UI designers are so damn good, why don't you apply to Microsoft's Windows Phone UI design team and improve it instead of *****ing like a bunch of spoiled brats.

The so-called UI designers are too busy worshiping Metro. Apparently, it's perfect. Nothing needs to be done! :lol:

[dannejanne]

About the keyboard some discussed earlier in this thread, that it doesn't stretch all the way out to the sides in landscape mode.

I like that it does not do that. And I think it's by design.

Typing gets easier even though all the buttons are marginally smaller. You don't have to stretch the fingers out in awkward positions to reach a letter at the very side of the screen.

I often made typos on my previous Android, and found it uncomfortable to type because of letters on the far side.

Now on my Lumia I don't misspell nearly as often and typing is easier although a smaller screen and smaller keyboard.

[N8ter]

I no longer own an android device. I've made it quite clear that I sold that phone. Try to keep up.

Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[blehblehbleh]

The so-called UI designers are too busy worshiping Metro. Apparently, it's perfect. Nothing needs to be done! :lol:

I think KingCrimson's statement applies to you as well buddy, especially since you're the OP and the one stating that Metro needs refinement.

I've still have yet to see any kind of mockups or rebuttals from you arguing how Metro could be "tightened and refined." It's not like I'm bias, if you have something legitimate to put out there I'd definitely considerate.

Seeing as how you don't or won't then to me it just shows you probably wanted to people to join you in your *****fest, which I'm totally fine with, but hey don't go attacking people's opinion that they like the OS just because can't find someone to gripe with.

[N8ter]

They'd just call them cluttered anyways, like all the others. Barely worth the effort to do that at this point.

And my hd7 gets a solid battery life of 7 hours with light usage (maybe 30 texts) so I'm unsure why anyone is bashing the battery in other phones. The lumia 800 shipped with horrible battery life as well, so Nokia cannot be depended upon to change that.

I actually have to carry my wall charger with me to make sure the hd7 doesn't die mid day even if I barely use it.

I think the Droid MAXX has a 3300 mah battery in it though. Maybe worth taking a look at that.

Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[blehblehbleh]

They'd just call them cluttered anyways, like all the others. Barely worth the effort to do that at this point.

Possibly, but if he's that adamant then he should put it forward regardless.

[jfa1]

Its okay. Went above his head, as for a blanket statement that android was "surging" is a matter of perspective. The sales numbers are usually based on comparing and OS to hardware so its a nonsense comparison. Its like comparing One model of company a to one model to company b and then saying b is losing.

Well if you like android and the carrier wont update your device and you want the newest os etc dont you pretty much have to buy a newer deviuce which further pumps up their sales figures!

[anon(5335877)]

And my hd7 gets a solid battery life of 7 hours with light usage (maybe 30 texts) so I'm unsure why anyone is bashing the battery in other phones. The lumia 800 shipped with horrible battery life as well, so Nokia cannot be depended upon to change that.

I actually have to carry my wall charger with me to make sure the hd7 doesn't die mid day even if I barely use it.

Doesn't the HD7 have a tiny 12xx mAh battery? What was HTC thinking?

Well if you like android and the carrier wont update your device and you want the newest os etc dont you pretty much have to buy a newer deviuce which further pumps up their sales figures!

Nah, you don't have to. I think people who really like Android are the ones who root, mod, and hack their phones so they'll just install custom ROMs.

[canesfan625]

Doesn't the HD7 have a tiny 12xx mAh battery? What was HTC thinking?



Nah, you don't have to. I think people who really like Android are the ones who root, mod, and hack their phones so they'll just install custom ROMs.

What about the encrypted devices or ones that otherwise have no or shoddy rom support. I played that never ending flashing game. Its ridiculous how crazy people get over it too.

[anon(5335877)]

What about the encrypted devices or ones that otherwise have no or shoddy rom support. I played that never ending flashing game. Its ridiculous how crazy people get over it too.

Oh the locked bootloaders and stuff? Yeah, that's when people start complaining lol.

I used to do that to, but I left Android for iOS, then left iOS for WP7.

[canesfan625]

Oh the locked bootloaders and stuff? Yeah, that's when people start complaining lol.

I used to do that to, but I left Android for iOS, then left iOS for WP7.

Yep. A friends brother got a Droid Pro brand new just to turn around and be told that its stuck at 2.2 forever and then find out that it has a locked boot loader.

The so-called UI designers are too busy worshiping Metro. Apparently, it's perfect. Nothing needs to be done!

The argument that metro is mostly right on is valid. I don't see anyone switching to other devices and praising its UI as a main talking point. Since we are on the subject take a look here: Google tells Android devs to kick the menu button to the curb, seriously you guys -- Engadget

[mprice86]

The main issue in the thread just seems to be peoples differing perceptions of what a tweak is.

I would say yes, there is probably room for some refinements. To me that means that some of the headers might be reduced by 1 or 2 pixels, or a line might move up 1 or 2 pixels. Which is fair enough, that is a tightening of the OS that wont affect the usability or visual style of the OS.

A lot of what has been suggested here would be total over hauls of the UI, a re-writing of the Metro design language which would result in significant change across not just WP7, but also Windows 8 and Xbox. The Metro style as far as its key principles are set in stone now. You might not like them, but that does not make MS wrong any more than it makes you wrong for wanting something different.

Now can we all put on our big boy pants and have a civilised discussion about this or are we just monkeys throwing our crap at each other?

[scottcraft]

Well said mprice86!

Sent from my Windows7 Phone using Board Express

[Calidude]

The argument that metro is mostly right on is valid. I don't see anyone switching to other devices and praising its UI as a main talking point. Since we are on the subject take a look here: Google tells Android devs to kick the menu button to the curb, seriously you guys -- Engadget

Mostly yes, but it still needs work. There's no way it can be even close to perfect a year into its life.

[MannLou]

You know if some of you so-called UI designers are so damn good, why don't you apply to Microsoft's Windows Phone UI design team and improve it instead of *****ing like a bunch of spoiled brats.

As a designer myself I can attest to this - everyone thinks they're a designer. :-)

No OS is perfect but I think WP has a great start and a solid design language to work from. Enhancements are coming and Windows 8 is sure to inspire additional changes to the UI.

People are thrown off by intentional design elements like the right side of page hinting at additional pivots while some love the subtle suggestion. It's a preference. Any change from the norm is met with resistance.


Sent from my kick-*** TITAN using Board Express

[N8ter]

Doesn't the HD7 have a tiny 12xx mAh battery? What was HTC thinking?



Nah, you don't have to. I think people who really like Android are the ones who root, mod, and hack their phones so they'll just install custom ROMs.

You think 270 more mah would make it have incredible battery life? 1500 was pretty standard when this phone was released.


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[anon(5335877)]

You think 270 more mah would make it have incredible battery life? 1500 was pretty standard when this phone was released.


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

Not incredible battery life, but it still would have been an improvement. The reason I didn't get the HD7 back then is because I felt HTC didn't even bother. It seems like they just took an HD2 and slapped WP7 on it without upgrading anything.

[Rodolfo#WP]

We need a Don't Like button. :lol:

[N8ter]

Not incredible battery life, but it still would have been an improvement. The reason I didn't get the HD7 back then is because I felt HTC didn't even bother. It seems like they just took an HD2 and slapped WP7 on it without upgrading anything.

It would probably give it an extra 20-30 minutes, if even that depending on usage. It is not a big improvement. Motorola 1Ghz devices were shipping with 1400 mAh batteries and they still had factorably more longevity than the HD7.

The issue I have is that the battery drains super fast even when you're doing relatively light tasks on the phone. It seems like the screen is imposing a large amount of battery drain, cause if the screen is off the phone lasts twice as long (i.e. can play music for twice that length of time and I can WiFi tether my iTouch for at least that long before the battery gets low - at least, probably longer from what I've seen).