Tango: A misstep

[danygandhi]

This is just a speculation from what we know about Tango so far.....

I think it is a misstep on Microsoft's part to release Tango instead of bringing Dual Core and High screen resolution sooner to the market. Here is why

1. Are not the first-Gen devices already selling for dirt cheap
2. Even some second gen devices like lumia 710, ZTE Tania and HTC Radar 4G serve the purpose
3. Eventually the component prices for previous gen processors and memory come down.
4. Isn't Nokia selling enough S40 phones, why do they want WP7 in that market.
5. With half of the apps and xbox live games not working, the tango phones are not expected to generate any revenue for Microsoft.

The only plus i could think out of this is mind share for WP7.

 

[selfcreation]

well first of all , TANGO is a MINOR update to add compatibility support for other country .. so you think supporting over 1 billion clients in Asia is a misstep? lol

its NOT meant to be a game changer or to get more attention ( that's Apollo job ) we only gona get like a few features in TANGO. ( like we did with NoDo )

and even if they give support for duel-core . 100% of ALL APPS/GAMES will not support it , dev would have to add support for duel-core to each individual app for you to take advantage of it!! ( witch would take an other 6months )

( like mango and the quick resume )

what you mean half the apps and Xbox games not working? they all work fine.. lol aside fromt he random BUGS , but no app right now crashes my phones ( unless its a cheap indie dev app/game)

 

[danygandhi]

well first of all , TANGO is a MINOR update to add compatibility support for other country .. so you think supporting over 1 billion clients in Asia is a misstep? lol

its NOT meant to be a game changer or to get more attention ( that's Apollo job ) we only gona get like a few features in TANGO. ( like we did with NoDo )

and even if they give support for duel-core . 100% of ALL APPS/GAMES will not support it , dev would have to add support for duel-core to each individual app for you to take advantage of it!! ( witch would take an other 6months )

( like mango and the quick resume )

what you mean half the apps and Xbox games not working? they all work fine.. lol aside fromt he random BUGS , but no app right now crashes my phones ( unless its a cheap indie dev app/game)

"and even if they give support for duel-core . 100% of ALL APPS/GAMES will not support it , dev would have to add support for duel-core to each individual app for you to take advantage of it!! ( witch would take an other 6months )"

Dont you think microsoft will take care of it at the API level and devs have very little modifications to enable dual core support.

"what you mean half the apps and Xbox games not working? they all work fine.. lol aside fromt he random BUGS , but no app right now crashes my phones ( unless its a cheap indie dev app/game) "

I am talking about Tango with 256MB ram not all the apps and xbox live games will work on Tango phones.

 

[selfcreation]

Microsoft could enable duel-core API , but devs will still need to change some CODES so make the app/game compatible ,and its allot mreo work then simply adding a quick resume option.


as for the specs , My Samsung Focus ( first GEN ) has the same RAM as the Nokia Lumia 900 that inst even out yet!! lol.. ( 512ram)

second and first GEN phones are almost IDENTICAL in terms of specs to first Gen phones , only differents is , better camera , FFC , Gyro and 4G (lte support)

 

[Eirenarch]

Americans... as always you have no idea that the rest of the world exists. In many countries first gen devices are far from free. In some countries people don't pay $50 per month phone bill and it can't subsidize the phone.

Nokia owns the low-end market and if they manage to convert their existing customer base to WP7 that will be a great win for the platform. Otherwise Android will take it.

And BTW making software that takes advantage of multicore processors is one of the great challenges of modern development. MS could not make apps parallel on API level. They could use the dual core processor to offload some of the OS work and do stuff in the background while an app is using one core to the fullest but it is really hard to automaically make software parallel. It is also hard to write parallel code. Some problems naturally lend themselves to parallelism but some cannot benefit from it or it is really hard to split the algorithm.

 

[HeyCori]

Americans... as always you have no idea that the rest of the world exists. In many countries first gen devices are far from free. In some countries people don't pay $50 per month phone bill and it can't subsidize the phone.

Nokia owns the low-end market and if they manage to convert their existing customer base to WP7 that will be a great win for the platform. Otherwise Android will take it.

And BTW making software that takes advantage of multicore processors is one of the great challenges of modern development. MS could not make apps parallel on API level. They could use the dual core processor to offload some of the OS work and do stuff in the background while an app is using one core to the fullest but it is really hard to automaically make software parallel. It is also hard to write parallel code. Some problems naturally lend themselves to parallelism but some cannot benefit from it or it is really hard to split the algorithm.

I got into this debate with someone recently and I was trying to explain that Nokia sells millions of "cheap" phones. That's a market that isn't going away any time soon. It's vital that Nokia/Microsoft reduce the cost of WP7 devices so they can continue to compete in that "cheap" phone market. I could even see a future where the OS is stripped enough so that it becomes a cheap feature phone with a smartphone like attitude.

 

[oldpueblo]

I imagine tango is probably one of the promises that MS made to Nokia. And no, gen1 devices won't cover that because many are probably not even being produced anymore. They need volume.

 

[ubizmo]

Nokia owns the low-end market and if they manage to convert their existing customer base to WP7 that will be a great win for the platform. Otherwise Android will take it.

BlackBerry is still very strong in the developing world, precisely because there are still relatively inexpensive models available and RIM uses data compression, which keeps costs down. There are plenty of places where unlimited data plans are unheard of.

Once again, WP7 has to beat RIM before even thinking about competing with Android or iOS.

 

[Dileu]

Right now, you can't really buy a crummy WP7 phone. Not really. Sure, some are better than others, but none are crummy. You can't buy a crummy iPhone either (although the 3GS is starting to get near to crumminess IMHO).

You can, however, buy an awful lot of crummy Android phones that lag, take terrible photos, are incompatible with lots of apps, that have horrendous low res screens etc etc and that give an experience that likely burns people coming from simple, but fast, feature phones.

I think Tango is a misstep. I don't think MS can afford to dabble in the ultra low end smartphone world - it needs to build support and a following based on a quality, cohesive, slick user experience. You can't do that and race to the bottom at the same time. And you don't need to race to the bottom in order to succeed (as Apple has demonstrated).

 

[red grenadine]

Guys,

Tango is for Nokia, not Microsoft.

Tango is what will allow Nokia to sell their phones in Africa, China, India, Indonesia, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was part of the agreement with Nokia to bring them on board with Windows Phone.

Microsoft is focusing on the integration of its platforms in Windows 8. I doubt the phone team would even be allowed to release Apollo before Windows 8 gets released. I think you'll see a huge revived marketing push from Microsoft in that regard, especially in regards to cross app compatibility with your Windows 8 computer, etc.

 

[jfa1]

I they get support for the China Mobile TD-SCDMA frequency thats access to more cellphone users than the population of the US with no iphone and little android presence Thats a mega jump!

 

[mprice86]

You can, however, buy an awful lot of crummy Android phones that lag, take terrible photos, are incompatible with lots of apps, that have horrendous low res screens etc etc and that give an experience that likely burns people coming from simple, but fast, feature phones.

You're missing the whole point of Tango though. It's not some low-rent version of the OS to stick on rubbish hardware so it can run like a mess. It is an update that extends the ability of the OS to run on lower end hardware. Providing the same user experience across a range of hardware, regardless of an individuals budget is an amazing idea.

I think Tango is a misstep. I don't think MS can afford to dabble in the ultra low end smartphone world - it needs to build support and a following based on a quality, cohesive, slick user experience. You can't do that and race to the bottom at the same time. And you don't need to race to the bottom in order to succeed (as Apple has demonstrated).

How many feature phone users do you think are going to go out an drop ?300-500 on their first smartphone? Providing ?100 phones off contract that will run the OS as well as any of the current gen phones is a stroke of genius.

Getting people using the OS, and enjoying its functionality is key. Then if they'd like to take better photos, or they'd like to play that cool looking game really well, or whatever then they buy a better handset. By the time they're on their second phone they're invested in the ecosystem and not many want to throw that money away.

I get where you're coming from with your "race to the bottom" statement; but just because the Android version of racing to the bottom was putting out piss poor hardware that was barely capable of running the OS, certainly does not mean that MS is going the same route.

Given the first gen hardware, and how well the OS continues to run those phones, it is far from a massive step down to be in serious budget territory.

 

[Major]

People keep thinking that Android rules apply to WP7. They don't. Android has tons of crappy phones because the OS practically requires high end devices to run semi-decently. WP7 doesn't have this problem.

Like many others have stated, Tango isn't meant to crappify WP7. It's meant to lower the hardware requirements. If anything, it will likely make the OS run even better (if that's even possible) on the existing hardware.

 

[based_graham]

Tango is for markets like China, Phillipines, Africa etc where they can push out alot of very low cost phones. This will increase global marketshare and awareness of the Windows platform.

 

[Pronk]

I edit a business magazine covering the south of Africa. There, the phone is doing the job that the PC did for the 1st world in the 1990s/early 2000s. They need phones to be cheap, reliable and flexible. Cameras don't matter. Vast screen size doesn't matter. Storage space doesn't matter. Even speed, to a certain extent, doesn't matter.

When you have no computer, limited access to the grid, and you want to track a shipment of goods to market and then see you've been paid via -ebanking you need a phone that can do all that quickly, simply and efficiently but at a low, low initial cost - equal to or sub featurephone cost.

This is what Tango is for. To allow Nokia (and others, like ZTE) to undercut the Samsung Badas and LG Chocolates with a proper smartphone. The potential sales are millions and millions.

 

[N8ter]

Bada is a full smartphone OS. What do toy mean a"proper" smartphone. Platform is t the issue on those markets. Cost is. Android manufacturers will still undercut it, though. It will be interesting to see how much traction Tango gets in those markets.

Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

 

[Pronk]

Bada is a full smartphone OS.

No it isn't, and Samsung don't even say it is. They call it a "platform with a kernel configurable architecture". But in a nutshell Bada handsets fall between the very obvious (and very limited) feature phones and full blooded smartphones.

Not that it matters anyway, seeing as they announced in January they were ditching it

EDIT: oh, and android is popular, but one of the absolute key issues other than cost is ease of use and security. Here, WP wins hands down.

 

[snowmutt]

No it isn't, and Samsung don't even say it is. They call it a "platform with a kernel configurable architecture". But in a nutshell Bada handsets fall between the very obvious (and very limited) feature phones and full blooded smartphones.

Not that it matters anyway, seeing as they announced in January they were ditching it

EDIT: oh, and android is popular, but one of the absolute key issues other than cost is ease of use and security. Here, WP wins hands down.

When did Samsung say they were ditching Bada? As far as I know, it has been fairly rewarding for them. Anyone have a link to that story?

And by the way, Eirenarch, the vast majority of us Americans understand not only what Nokia and Microsoft are doing, but how incredibly important it is. At lest us Americans in this site.

 

[gwydionjhr]

Here's one other thing to think about....

The biggest knock against WP is the size of the marketplace. How fast do you think apps are going to start piling up when WP becomes a dominant player in those HUGE emerging markets? Think of a country like India, they've probably got more programmers than we've got people in all of Canada.

We all know that the "But we've got 500,00 apps" arguement is crap, does anyone REALLY need 1000 different fart apps? But, when you're trying to sell these things, both to customers and app developers in the west, they pay attention to those figures.

There is a really great radio show/podcast called "Under the Influence" done by CBC radio. A recent episode talks about how Nokia went out to sell the idea of cell phones in India. A van with a portable stage, a troupe of actors and plays that explained the benefits of owning a cell phone. In alot of cases, it would be a cell phone the entire community purchases and shared together.

You can listen to it here: CBC.ca | Under The Influence | A New BRIC In The Wall. or look for it on iTunes.

While our western market is can be extremely profitable because of the margins, it can no way compare to the shear volume offered by emerging markets.

Couple that with the fact that they're moving from emerging to established at an undreampt of pace. Just like Toyota wants to start you off in a Yaris, and move you up to a Camry and then a Lexus, those that get the mind share with a good product now in these markets can get and keep customers for years to come.

Tango is a brilliant piece of strategy, and I'm more than happy to wait 'til the fall for Apollo. (Ok, I'd rather have it now, but I understand why it's important to wait.)

 

[jabtano]

I don't think this is a miss step at all. why should folks who can not afford a higher end device not be able to enjoy the WP experience? there are many places on this earth where people need and use wireless devices yet can not pay the big bucks for one. WP for all is my motto....