05-03-2012 11:35 AM
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  1. oldpueblo's Avatar
    I own a galaxy nexus and an iPhone 4. I use both regularly for work (app development). For actual day to day usage...it's the lumia. The screen contrast, legibility outside, and bright colors make it more usable than my two HD screens.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
    I seriously had no idea the 900 was going to be so readable in sunlight. I live in Arizona and had basically given up on being able to see any screen in the glaring sunlight here. That trumps all screen factors in my book.
    04-28-2012 08:20 PM
  2. socialcarpet's Avatar
    Just waste of battery life.
    That's a myth actually. Multi core processors don't necessarily use more battery.

    Samsung's new 4 core Exynos chip uses 20% less energy than the chip it replaces.

    Intel's multi core computer CPU's continue to get more and more energy efficient and faster at the same time. A multi core i3, i5 or i7 laptop processor is far more energy than the single core Pentium mobile chips from just a few years ago and they are faster.

    The argument against multiple cores is phones is more a matter of price and whether or not the OS and apps are optimized for it. If the OS isn't doing serious multitasking, optimized to use multiple cores and there aren't any apps designed to use multi-core architecture, then there is no point.

    The current WP7 kernel doesn't do this and none of the apps do and WP7 multi-tasking is pretty tame anyway, so even if they could use dual core processors now, you'd see no real performance gains.

    All in good time though. :)
    04-28-2012 10:26 PM
  3. btgusto's Avatar
    Why the need? To keep up with the Jones'. I think its also called progress. Plus the less knowledgeable consumer just goes for looks, specs, or what seems cool. So in order to sell MS has to appeal to them. Even though my phone "smoked" my wife's evo and now her iphone.
    04-28-2012 10:29 PM
  4. socialcarpet's Avatar
    I seriously had no idea the 900 was going to be so readable in sunlight. I live in Arizona and had basically given up on being able to see any screen in the glaring sunlight here. That trumps all screen factors in my book.
    It is truly amazing. Arguably the best screen (resolution limitations aside) on any smartphone right now.

    The combination of SuperAMOLED+ color fidelity and saturation with Nokia's clear black polarization is a home run. The depth of the blacks and vibrant color and contrast are the first things people notice when I show them my phone. I usually have it set on medium brightness, but even at low brightness, it's more visible outdoors in sunlight than most other phones are at medium or high.
    04-28-2012 10:29 PM
  5. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    I understand hi-red screens. But a quad core come on. I have a dual core in my DESKTOP. When phone CPUs surpass a standard desktop's CPU. Then it's not a phone just a minicomputer.

    Sent from my SGH-i937 using Board Express
    That's a common misconception consumers possess. Quad Core ARM Cortex A9 chips are NOT as fast as Quad Core, or even the bulk of Dual Core, x86 chips. They're not even half as fast as most of them.

    The difference in RISC and CISC architecture matters. Even the difference between ARM Cortex A8, A9 and A15 (or i3, i5, and i7) really matters. For example, a dual core A15 is on par with Samsungs new quad core Exynos.

    The bottom line is that consumers really have no idea how to read specs and our phones aren't half as fast as you might think they are.

    (And if you think the situation is confusing now, just wait till when the new Intel chips hit smartphones.)
    Last edited by Sentimentgx4; 04-29-2012 at 12:16 AM.
    04-29-2012 12:03 AM
  6. tekhna's Avatar
    That's a common misconception consumers possess. Quad Core ARM Cortex A9 chips are NOT as fast as Quad Core, or even the bulk of Dual Core, x86 chips. They're not even half as fast as most of them.

    The difference in RISC and CISC architecture matters. Even the difference between ARM Cortex A8, A9 and A15 (or i3, i5, and i7) really matters. For example, a dual core A15 is on par with Samsungs new quad core Exynos.

    The bottom line is that consumers really have no idea how to read specs and our phones aren't half as fast as you might think they are.

    (And if you think the situation is confusing now, just wait till when the new Intel chips hit smartphones.)
    This. Just think of how crappy Motorola's desktop mode was (is? haven't used it since the Atrix) because there's just not the processing power there. Even if it says that there's the same number of clock cycles and cores as a PC chip doesn't mean it has anything close to the same processing power.
    04-29-2012 12:24 AM
  7. AngryNil's Avatar
    It's threads like this which destroy the credibility of fan communities.

    I am living in constant regret because I didn't order an Envy 14 that was on sale. It had a 1600x900 Radiance screen and a Radeon 5650. Now, I'm stuck with a 1366x768 screen with terrible viewing angles and brightness, coupled with a GeForce 310M which barely stands up to the integrated Intel HD 3000.

    It doesn't matter whether it's a laptop or a phone, a better screen makes a huge difference. Better internals provide a smoother performance and allow the platform to progress in terms of intensive apps and games.

    I dare any of you to claim that you've never experience a slowdown on your device. That you've never had an app lag when you swiped or scrolled while it was still pulling in data. That you've never had a jarring freeze at the end of a match in PES 2012 or Fusion: Sentient.

    Go ahead, I dare you.
    Last edited by AngryNil; 04-29-2012 at 05:40 AM.
    04-29-2012 05:14 AM
  8. oldpueblo's Avatar
    It's threads like this which destroy the credibility of fan communities.

    I am living in constant regret because I didn't order an Envy 14 that was on sale. It had a 1600x900 Radiance screen and a Radeon 5650. Now, I'm stuck with a 1366x768 screen with terrible viewing angles and brightness, coupled with a GeForce 310M which barely stands up to the integrated Intel HD 3000.

    It doesn't matter whether it's a laptop or a phone, a better screen makes a huge difference. Better internals provide a smoother performance and allow the platform to progress in terms of intensive apps and games.

    I dare any of you to claim that you've never experience a slowdown on your device. That you've never had an app lag when you swiped or scrolled while it was still pulling in data. That you've never had a jarring freeze at the end of a match in PES 2012 or Fusion: Sentient.

    Go ahead, I dare you.
    You realize that's dumb because every platform has done that. Every one despite the hardware. And huge difference? No.
    04-29-2012 05:47 AM
  9. AngryNil's Avatar
    You realize that's dumb because every platform has done that. Every one despite the hardware. And huge difference? No.
    And so you think if Microsoft properly optimises for an additional three cores, the OS would still be incapable of rendering a reasonable amount of frames while loading data? You think it won't be a big deal to have immediate recognition of input I provide through touch at any time?

    And I thought Windows Phone fans shared my passion for a smooth, elegant experience. I guess every logical argument goes down the drain once someone finds themselves on the defensive.

    Also, you failed to meet my dare. Hence, you acknowledge that the underpowered hardware is holding back Microsoft from achieving a buttery-smooth experience throughout.
    04-29-2012 05:55 AM
  10. cgk's Avatar

    And I thought Windows Phone fans shared my passion for a smooth, elegant experience. I guess every logical argument goes down the drain once someone finds themselves on the defensive.
    This is why I'm a user not fan, users want things fixing, fans want to make excuse for stuff. As it currently stands, WP7 best meets my needs but it's missing stuff (as are other platforms in other ways) and honest feedback is better than some of the uncritical nonsense that fans push out.

    Having said that it's a problem across platforms, WebOS and Blackberry fans are just the same in burying their head in the sand when it comes to the failing of their platforms. I'm a user and I constantly want every platform to fight for my business not for me to spend my time blowing smoke up their ***.
    AngryNil likes this.
    04-29-2012 07:29 AM
  11. anon(5316299)'s Avatar
    The truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle. My gnex definitely has smoother video playback than my lumia. Ditto for iPhone. However, OS operations-scrolling, app changes, etc - are as smooth on the lumia as the iPhone. My gnex also won't go more than 18 hours on a charge...my lumia's working on 24 so far with 25% left. IPhone also does well on battery...but has a screen so small that despite the truly excellent quality is harder to use because everything has to be zoomed. For day to day usability I love the lumia. If I'm going to watch a movie, I'll use the gnex.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
    04-29-2012 07:33 AM
  12. HeyCori's Avatar
    This is why I'm a user not fan, users want things fixing, fans want to make excuse for stuff. As it currently stands, WP7 best meets my needs but it's missing stuff (as are other platforms in other ways) and honest feedback is better than some of the uncritical nonsense that fans push out.

    Having said that it's a problem across platforms, WebOS and Blackberry fans are just the same in burying their head in the sand when it comes to the failing of their platforms. I'm a user and I constantly want every platform to fight for my business not for me to spend my time blowing smoke up their ***.
    The needs and demands of each person will vary whether you call them a user or a fan. It is just as delusional to suggest that everyone should care about what you care about because you care about it. You'd be hard pressed to find a single person on this board that doesn't have their own personalized list of criticisms of the platform. Everyone on this board want to see WP get better, but better is a subjective term and can't be standardized across every forum member. Your crusades may be important to you but don't dare try to say other people aren't as concerned about the platform because their criticisms are different than yours.
    socialcarpet likes this.
    04-29-2012 08:10 AM
  13. socialcarpet's Avatar
    ^^^ couldn't have said it better myself!

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
    04-29-2012 08:17 AM
  14. cgk's Avatar
    The needs and demands of each person will vary whether you call them a user or a fan. It is just as delusional to suggest that everyone should care about what you care about because you care about it. You'd be hard pressed to find a single person on this board that doesn't have their own personalized list of criticisms of the platform. Everyone on this board want to see WP get better, but better is a subjective term and can't be standardized across every forum member. Your crusades may be important to you but don't dare try to say other people aren't as concerned about the platform because their criticisms are different than yours.
    huh? That's my point, users don't generally have crusades because they simply don't care in the way that a fan does, I just want something that works and if doesn't I swop to something that does - like the majority of normal people. If I say I want X,Y and Z and it doesn't appear, I don't cry about it or make facebook campaigns or ask questions like "How many WPs have you sold?" - I just move on.

    more simply, I care about features rather than the platform or the corporations behind them (Cheer-leading multinational corporations unless you have shares in them or work for them is the oddest thing I've ever seen - the crackberry forum in particular is a scary place because of that, it's like a cargo-cult).
    04-29-2012 08:32 AM
  15. socialcarpet's Avatar
    And so you think if Microsoft properly optimises for an additional three cores, the OS would still be incapable of rendering a reasonable amount of frames while loading data? You think it won't be a big deal to have immediate recognition of input I provide through touch at any time?

    And I thought Windows Phone fans shared my passion for a smooth, elegant experience. I guess every logical argument goes down the drain once someone finds themselves on the defensive.

    Also, you failed to meet my dare. Hence, you acknowledge that the underpowered hardware is holding back Microsoft from achieving a buttery-smooth experience throughout.
    I don't think anyone would argue that the new WP8 OS that is optimized for multiple cores won't deliver more performance.

    I think you should try not to mistake optimism and people who want to enjoy their phones NOW as "blowing smoke". Of course everyone would like more performance, higher resolutions. Its just that not everyone wants to constantly complain about it because common sense tells you that all of that is coming and all the griping on message boards in the world won't make it it come a minute faster.

    Personally I'd like to enjoy my phone now and I'd prefer it if this board doesn't descend into a constant b1tchfest that discourages new users and accomplishes nothing. We all know what the limitations of the platform are. Rehashing them in threads like this everyday is counterproductive.
    As for your laptop, buyer beware. You should do your own research. I don't know how it's the fault if any forum that you didn't know that 1600x900 is better than 1366x768, or that you didn't simply look up benchmarks for the graphics card on a reputable source like anandtech.
    .

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
    04-29-2012 08:33 AM
  16. HeyCori's Avatar
    huh? That's my point, users don't generally have crusades because they simply don't care in the way that a fan does, I just want something that works and if doesn't I swop to something that does - like the majority of normal people. If I say I want X,Y and Z and it doesn't appear, I don't cry about it or make facebook campaigns or ask questions like "How many WPs have you sold?" - I just move on.

    more simply, I care about features rather than the platform or the corporations behind them (Cheer-leading multinational corporations unless you have shares in them or work for them is the oddest thing I've ever seen - the crackberry forum in particular is a scary place because of that, it's like a cargo-cult).
    There is no difference between a user and a fan. Trying to separate the two groups is meaningless. Saying that you will move on doesn't put you into a special category because any unsatisfied customer will move on eventually. Signing up for the forums put you in the same boat as everyone else, whether you wanted that or not.
    04-29-2012 08:46 AM
  17. cgk's Avatar
    There is no difference between a user and a fan.
    Nonsense - saying "I want feature X, anyone know if it's going to be provided" is clearly different from "I've supporting the platform by buying shares in microsoft!" or spending your time trying to convert people.
    04-29-2012 09:07 AM
  18. HeyCori's Avatar
    Nonsense - saying "I want feature X, anyone know if it's going to be provided" is clearly different from "I've supporting the platform by buying shares in microsoft!" or spending your time trying to convert people.
    Interacting with other forum members means you are promoting (or condemning) WP whether you wanted to or not. It's not possible control how people interrupt your posts. Something as simply as answering a question or talking about a certain feature could lead to another sale. You don't have to go on a crusade or officially endorse a product to affect sales and perception. Saying I'm not one of you guys while doing the same thing that one of you guys does actually just makes you one of the guys. Maybe you don't routinely shout the praises of WP, but your pedestal is at the same level as everyone else's. The only way to keep people from having an opinion of your posts is to not talk at all. Furthermore, by buying a Windows Phone you invested money into the platform and Microsoft. So the feature X guy and the I bought MS shares guy from your examples are now the same person because you literally just put money into Microsoft's pocket. Now it's a waste of your money if the platform doesn't get better. You are invested just as much as anyone else who paid for a WP.
    Last edited by HeyCori; 04-29-2012 at 09:36 AM.
    04-29-2012 09:27 AM
  19. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    Nonsense - saying "I want feature X, anyone know if it's going to be provided" is clearly different from "I've supporting the platform by buying shares in microsoft!" or spending your time trying to convert people.
    People buy shares in Microsoft for all sorts of reasons. Microsoft is a major, MAJOR corporation. Windows Phone is a very, very tiny segment of the company. Owning shares of Microsoft doesn't make you a WP fanboy or Microsoft fanboy.
    04-29-2012 01:45 PM
  20. oldpueblo's Avatar
    And so you think if Microsoft properly optimises for an additional three cores, the OS would still be incapable of rendering a reasonable amount of frames while loading data? You think it won't be a big deal to have immediate recognition of input I provide through touch at any time?

    And I thought Windows Phone fans shared my passion for a smooth, elegant experience. I guess every logical argument goes down the drain once someone finds themselves on the defensive.

    Also, you failed to meet my dare. Hence, you acknowledge that the underpowered hardware is holding back Microsoft from achieving a buttery-smooth experience throughout.
    I think you need to spend less time on devices because your judgement has become impaired. My main issue is with your verbage mostly I guess. You seem to be an extremist. You claim a better screen makes a HUGE difference. Well no it doesn't if you don't care about that. Think about it, you used the word huge. I mean I'm pretty sure no phone screen has made me almost faint in amazement at a HUGE difference. You think no platform has any slowdown at any point when doing specific tasks? It's like you're talking theoretical instead of practical. And daring people on a forum? Yeah go take a break buddy and maybe try to read up on a few middle ground words. I'm not a fanboy, just someone with perspective.
    04-29-2012 11:36 PM
  21. AngryNil's Avatar
    It is just as delusional to suggest that everyone should care about what you care about [b]because you care about it.
    It's a fact that higher resolution screens and better processors will improve the user experience - exactly the thing that is heavily lauded by Windows Phone fans. Over-defensiveness was the topic at hand, but you somehow got "everyone should appreciate elegance" from it (and to be honest, if you don't appreciate elegance I don't see any huge advantage of sticking with Windows Phone).

    Higher resolution screens and faster processors aren't needed. GUIs and ASDL connections aren't either, so let's all use the command line and 56K modems. This isn't a case of matching a particular feature, or matching a particular competitor. It's a case of hardware advancement which would benefit the entire experience of every single user.

    Many don't use Bluetooth file transfer, many do. But no one needs to wait an extra five seconds before they can start scrolling in an app. No one needs to zoom in and awkwardly horizontal-scroll in order to read webpage content.

    I don't know how it's the fault if any forum that you didn't know that 1600x900 is better than 1366x768, or that you didn't simply look up benchmarks for the graphics card on a reputable source like anandtech.
    I'm sorry, what? I made the bad decision in passing up on the sale, and now I'm stuck with mediocrity. I was simply stating that I am fully aware that I am behind the curve and quite frankly, it sucks. I don't see why it's somehow acceptable on the phone side, and if you think Microsoft is going to provide extensive support for its devices - it can't do much when the hardware is crap.
    Last edited by AngryNil; 04-30-2012 at 04:21 AM.
    04-30-2012 03:57 AM
  22. oldpueblo's Avatar
    Crap you say. See I would say older, slower, a few different things. But another way to describe it is "just fine" since for just about every average user and many power users like me, it is indeed "just fine". I have a rule I live by, nothing is crap for the right price and appropriate use. It sounds like you need to build a time machine and move to the future because no hardware today will satisfy you. Because it's ALL crap per your needs.
    04-30-2012 04:41 AM
  23. welsbloke's Avatar
    This is a thread of extreme views. The so called non fanboys versus the fanboys. Unfortunately the non fanboy does not realise that by him simply being here it rules himself out and the fanboy is what he is defensive and maybe rightly so when talking about Screens and CPU power.

    Do we need the higher res screens? As we have found out we do not have one clear answer. I would point to the clearblack display from Nokia of an example when technology is not just about screen resolution but user experience. What we need are screens that improve our experience and that might be a better screen or a better resolution or both. Equally it could be said for the majority certainly on current gen of WP that it is not an issue. Although the perception is certainly that it matters.

    Do we need more cores? The same answer could be applied from above but modified to reflect the topic. So a small minority of users would benefit from more power but the majority will be saddled with the "benefit" and will be made to feel it matters the perception again.

    As interesting as all this is for me the area that needs addressing most is power. Not power in the form of cpu cycles but power in the form of amps and volts and power that lasts. If I was honest the CPU and screen even on the 800 heck even the Omnia 7 was more than adequate for my use. What is missing is that 7 days between a charge or the 30 days of the kindle on standby. Thats what we need and I wish they would spend more time on that topic tbh instead of introducing more battery sucking features for our "benefit".
    04-30-2012 05:03 AM
  24. HeyCori's Avatar
    It's a fact that higher resolution screens and better processors will improve the user experience...
    No one is debating whether or not higher specs are better than lower specs. That's your own straw man argument. They are debating whether or not they are satisfied with their devices. Some are, some aren't. So unless you can show me the mathematical formula you're using to measure each individual's user experience, you're gonna have to live with the fact that different people have different opinions of what makes them happy.

    Also, if you're going to selectively quote me, at least keep it in context. That line you quoted had absolutely nothing to do with specs. I was talking about treating people as though their opinions are inferior because they chose to focus on something that matters more to them than it does to you.
    Last edited by HeyCori; 04-30-2012 at 06:04 AM.
    04-30-2012 05:51 AM
  25. AngryNil's Avatar
    I have a rule I live by, nothing is crap for the right price and appropriate use
    The Lumia 800 is going against the One X and Galaxy Nexus in my country. Windows Phone excels in the mid-to-low end, but doesn't stack up with the bleeding edge (yet continues to be sold against top-tier Android handsets).

    Because it's ALL crap per your needs.
    Why are you putting words in my mouth? Can't have an honest debate without some foul play?

    the non fanboy does not realise that by him simply being here it rules himself out
    Are you referencing me? To express a view strongly does not make anyone a "fanboy", but I am curious. What kind of fanboy would you label me as? A fanboy of progress? Better hardware?

    The Omnia 7 is my daily driver and I'm happy with it. However, I would find it very hard to choose a Mango device over the cutting edge Android devices as my next (Apollo is another story). Ultimately, hardware unlocks a lot of potential. You can argue that at a core level, Android is subpar - but if Windows Phone doesn't have the hardware to prove that fact, I could be swayed.
    Last edited by AngryNil; 04-30-2012 at 06:58 AM.
    04-30-2012 05:56 AM
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