Zune Wireless Sync - are you kidding?

KingCrimson

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I think the confusion comes from people incorrectly calling it WIRELESS Sync instead of WIFI Sync. WIFI Sync doesn't say WIRELESS, it just says it syncs over WIFI instead of USB. I guess the OP would have less of an issue if he didn't try to act like the two (WIFI, WIRELESS) were one and the same...

But the WiFi Sleep Policy is a legitimate issue...

Except Microsoft calls it "Wireless sync" in the Zune settings. Apple calls it WiFi sync. Lack of truth in advertising.
 

anon(5335877)

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Unless you're just daft and just want to disagree, it's pretty common knowledge that 3G/LTE drains significantly more battery than EDGE/GPRS (lots of people drop to Edge to save battery), and we all know that WiFi data consumes less battery than 3G/LTE data transfers.

That's where the big difference is. Saying the WiFi is going to be on all the time doesn't matter all that much, becuase the battery drain of the WiFi radio is not that high to begin with. Most of the battery drain in a smartphone comes from Data Transfers, the Screen, and Location Services. The fact that WiFi has much less battery drain for data transfers is what makes it superior, coupled with the fact that you get faster location triangulations when you use WiFi in conjunction with the GPS chip.

If you look at any specification breakdown, talk times on GPRS/EDGE are almost always higher than on UMTS for the same reasons, and when a phone is on WiFi the device completely avoids 3G for data and uses WiFi (which uses less battery) instead. When a device is used for streaming media (Video, high bitrate audio) WiFi is clearly superior to 3G, and also generates much less heat.

The reason why Microsoft did it? Ask Microsoft. They do rather narrow focus groups with relatively weak justifications for a lot of the changes they make in their software. I'm not here to defend what they did. I just make a choice on what products I move forward with in the future.

I'm pretty sure that Wi-Fi uses less battery than 3G or LTE. I mean, there's a reason why the iPad is rated for 10 hours on Wi-Fi but only 9 hours on 3G or LTE, right?

But if this is true, then why do Windows Phones and iPhones turn off Wi-Fi when they go to sleep, and Androids too (by default)?
 

N8ter

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My point is that Apple seems to put a huge amount of thought into wireless features. Their Airport Express/Airport Extreme networking devices are considered best in the industry. Then on the software side, they've got AirPlay and AirDrop. Apple doesn't make crap.

Well those are wireless features, and TBH Microsoft doesn't have a lot of equivalents for those. They have failed to really capitalize on the XB360 as far as integration possibilities are concerned. No MTP in the XB360 and no great AirPlay/DLNA features from WP7/Win7 to XB360 outside of Media Center Connect. Looks like the Android Vendors (HTC/Samsung) are willing to play in that field before Microsoft will, at the moment.

The Topic is Wireless Synching, though, so I'm trying not to derail any further than has already happened with the Power Management discussion. That's why I spoke chiefly to the iOS Device Wireless synching capabilities.
 

ninjaap

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You hombres are loco for getting upset over this. What's so hard about plugging in your phone to a wall charger and 10secs later Zune pops up and syncs it automatically? Seriously, if you were near your laptop, what possible reason would you have not to plug it into your USB??? What would prompt you to think "hey, my laptop is right next to me, but id rather not plug it in. I'd rather go through my settings and manually invoke wireless sync so I can use up more battery, because wifi uses less battery than 3G anyways"? The wireless sync is just a convenience you're not even supposed to think about. Its supposed to be just an extra bonus for when your charging your phone. And instead of just sitting there, might as well do something useful for you with its time.
 

N8ter

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I'm pretty sure that Wi-Fi uses less battery than 3G or LTE. I mean, there's a reason why the iPad is rated for 10 hours on Wi-Fi but only 9 hours on 3G or LTE, right?

But if this is true, then why do Windows Phones and iPhones turn off Wi-Fi when they go to sleep, and Androids too (by default)?

The iPod Touch keeps WiFi on when it's asleep. Not sure if that's also tree for the iPhone. I know people who roam would not like it if their phone automatically shuts the WiFi off and they proceed to get roaming data charged when they're assuming they're on WiFi, though. Yet another reason to have a setting to lock the WiFi on.

But that's a good questions, and cause for some investigation!
 

anon(5335877)

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The iPod Touch keeps WiFi on when it's asleep. Not sure if that's also tree for the iPhone. I know people who roam would not like it if their phone automatically shuts the WiFi off and they proceed to get roaming data charged when they're assuming they're on WiFi, though. Yet another reason to have a setting to lock the WiFi on.

But that's a good questions, and cause for some investigation!

Well the iPod makes more sense because there's no other way it can receive data, so it wouldn't receive any push notifications.

But anyway, that's a topic for another thread.
 

N8ter

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Except Microsoft calls it "Wireless sync" in the Zune settings. Apple calls it WiFi sync. Lack of truth in advertising.

Then they should change it to WiFi sync, cause Internet Peeps are addicted to Semantical arguments.

Well the iPod makes more sense because there's no other way it can receive data, so it wouldn't receive any push notifications.

But anyway, that's a topic for another thread.

I think iOS keeps the WiFi on all the time, though. From my elementary research many people have turned data off on iPhones and connected to them through SSH, etc. and it allowed the connection while the device was asleep with data off but WiFi on which would lead one to believe it was always on. Seems it has been this way since iOS 4, and it was likely changed to avoid overages and roaming charges for customers.

Also the quality of the drivers for the WiFi hardware can greatly affect how much battery it uses (same can be said for cell radio firmware, though).
 

Dave Blake

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Unless you're just daft and just want to disagree, it's pretty common knowledge that 3G/LTE drains significantly more battery than EDGE/GPRS (lots of people drop to Edge to save battery), and we all know that WiFi data consumes less battery than 3G/LTE data transfers.

That's where the big difference is. Saying the WiFi is going to be on all the time doesn't matter all that much, becuase the battery drain of the WiFi radio is not that high to begin with. Most of the battery drain in a smartphone comes from Data Transfers, the Screen, and Location Services. The fact that WiFi has much less battery drain for data transfers is what makes it superior, coupled with the fact that you get faster location triangulations when you use WiFi in conjunction with the GPS chip.

If you look at any specification breakdown, talk times on GPRS/EDGE are almost always higher than on UMTS for the same reasons, and when a phone is on WiFi the device completely avoids 3G for data and uses WiFi (which uses less battery) instead. When a device is used for streaming media (Video, high bitrate audio) WiFi is clearly superior to 3G, and also generates much less heat.

The reason why Microsoft did it? Ask Microsoft. They do rather narrow focus groups with relatively weak justifications for a lot of the changes they make in their software. I'm not here to defend what they did. I just make a choice on what products I move forward with in the future.

I agree that a user should have a choice. Sometimes when we have a choice we make bad decisions that cause more problems than good. I am not a cell phone engineer are you? I would put my trust in those that have that job to decide what is best. I would be smart enough to know that if I turned on WIFI and it killed my battery I would turn it off. Some people don't have that level of insight. I think Microsoft in its attempt to make WP a minimalist OS made it too simple is some aspects. I don't need to have WIFI on all the time so this is not an issue for me. I think Microsoft should open the apis so a third party developer can offer this option that way when people complain about it killing there battery (you know they will) those people can complain to the developer. All of this has little to do with wireless sync on Zune so maybe we should consider getting back on topic. Maybe start another thread to discuss this issue.
 

N8ter

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I already said i just put it in Airplane mode now.

And I've already been trying to limit the effect of the derail, as plainly stated in my earlier reply to another poster.
 
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canesfan625

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The OPs beef is with the phone in standby.. If you have a good 3g connection then its reasonable to stick with that when the phone is in standby because your GSM radio isn't always transmitting. It operates by occasionally connecting to the network to check status. WiFi is an always on connection. It will transmit even when you aren't actually transmitting data. There was also a study last year that showed the iPhone's WiFi spending most of its power saving mode in idle listening state so even in power saving mode the WiFi radio is constantly listening for incoming network traffic. In terms of battery usage it might as well be awake. Look up WiFi scaling.
 

AngryNil

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The wireless sync is just a convenience you're not even supposed to think about. Its supposed to be just an extra bonus for when your charging your phone. And instead of just sitting there, might as well do something useful for you with its time.
Yes, yes. This.

While I would definitely appreciate the ability to sync without a power connection and force the sync quickly in some way, the current implementation has been working really well for me. Apart from the times where I am actively managing the sync (in which case I make sure to get the cable out), it's been amazing.

I was running out of the house the other day, and realised I hadn't checked for any podcasts. Perhaps I did something I didn't remember, but I'm positive that the sync opened Zune, which then downloaded a podcast and synced it to my device. That's cool.
 

Narr

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Wireless Sync is a great feature, works perfectly for me and it doesn't bother me how it works either ;)

I was reading an article on location services in WP7 and how the WiFi is used to locate as GPS uses more power; it clarifies that it's bad to look at the services in isolation as those services will be used to help power consumption elsewhere.
 

selfcreation

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Remember when you had to plug things in for them to work?:cool:

motorolabagphone2.jpg


gameplay-dm-nyc.jpg
 

awesumjon

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Yeah. It opens Zune automatically for me too to sync. Though it takes a little long for some reason. Its a snail compared to my Zune HD, which I can manually sync wirelessly, though that uses up the Zune HD quickly. Even still, I wonder why the WiFi synching is much better on my aged Zune than WP. . .

Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
 

madhouse1616

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Well those are wireless features, and TBH Microsoft doesn't have a lot of equivalents for those. They have failed to really capitalize on the XB360 as far as integration possibilities are concerned. No MTP in the XB360 and no great AirPlay/DLNA features from WP7/Win7 to XB360 outside of Media Center Connect. Looks like the Android Vendors (HTC/Samsung) are willing to play in that field before Microsoft will, at the moment.

The Topic is Wireless Synching, though, so I'm trying not to derail any further than has already happened with the Power Management discussion. That's why I spoke chiefly to the iOS Device Wireless synching capabilities.

I'm sure it's because MS is working on the next version of XBOX (720) that will also tie into windows 8 platform?
 

stlbud

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well pluging it in the wall has nothing to do with the actual connection ... so yeah it IS wireless SYNC...

but it might be a little stupid that it *requires* a AC plug in.

maybe thats one of the reasons MS is dropping ZUNE...

Wireless sync with Zune is ... well ... wireless. Didn't need power, USB, nothing. It just plain works. (even from the driveway)
 
M

mkr10001

Wireless sync with Zune is ... well ... wireless. Didn't need power, USB, nothing. It just plain works. (even from the driveway)

lies.

You DO need to be plugged in and charging for it to work.

Fact.
 

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