Why Microsoft just made a huge mistake.

[Daniel Ratcliffe]

Microsoft lied? no they dint ..

they NEVER said anything about First GEN phones getting the update... only blogers started rumors.... nothing was official till yesterday....

yesterday was the first time MS Confirmed anything about the update..
if you believed the rumors , that's not MS's problem.

Oh so apparently the TITAN is first gen is it? I was always under the impression it was a 2nd Gen phone, similar to the Lumia. Or is that just me being a gullible moron again? First gen phones did get a major upgrade, called Mango. The TITAN was released with 7.5, so that's a 2nd gen device is it not? If I had a HD7, or a Quantum, etc, I'd understand, they were 1st Gen, and got Mango, but a 2nd gen device is potentially not getting a major update. I always mentioned how it would affect me with my TITAN.

 

[N8ter]

This is why many of us yelled for up to day specs in the devices. Yes, Microsoft can easily use the specs argument on you guys and it would actually make sense, because they set the hardware specs for Launch/Mango way too low. But if they actually had decent hardware in the devices they could have done the same thing Android OEMs did and just updated later and unlocked the potential of the hardware. That's what we meant by future proof.

But really, was anyone surprised by that announcement?

WP8 is basically a new OS. The only difference is that instead of carrying forth the underpinnings (as they did with CE in WP7), they're carrying forth the UI layer (for the most part) and replacing the underpinnings instead.

WP7 was basically a really long beta test, as far as I'm concerned.

I rather enjoyed it, but I knew what was coming. WP7's purpose wasn't to be serious in the mobile, it wasn't even really to gain traction, tbh.

The purpose of it was to help build out Microsoft's ecosystem as lock in as many people as they could before they got the end product out - that product is coming later this year. Enjoy it WP7 was merely a transitive project, the way Google Buzz was before Google+.

 

[selfcreation]

Oh so apparently the TITAN is first gen is it? I was always under the impression it was a 2nd Gen phone, similar to the Lumia. Or is that just me being a gullible moron again? First gen phones did get a major upgrade, called Mango. The TITAN was released with 7.5, so that's a 2nd gen device is it not? If I had a HD7, or a Quantum, etc, I'd understand, they were 1st Gen, and got Mango, but a 2nd gen device is potentially not getting a major update. I always mentioned how it would affect me with my TITAN.

well its more like a 1.5 gen, lol ( that's what they call it )

the TITAN 2 , is second Gen like the Nokia's...

and Wp 7.8 IS a major Update... we only know 1 feature ( the UI ) so far .
MS is still hiding all the feature from us. so it pre-mature to assume anything

+ your also getting the TANGO update!!!! thats 2 updates...

 

[rich4A1]

I'm actually not convinced that changing kernel will make the upgrade impossible. Didn't they switch to NT kernel from WinME to XP? Was upgrade impossible? And it's not achetecture either, since apparently Microsoft knows how to have NT kernel runs on ARM archetecture processors.

So the only reason the upgrade is not being done, in my opinion, is performance. Maybe people will be happier if they are offere choices to either upgrade their current phones to full WP8, but they will run laggy and slowly, or WP7.8 but everything goes as smooth as it is.

 

[Daniel Ratcliffe]

well its more like a 1.5 gen, lol ( that's what they call it )

the TITAN 2 , is second Gen like the Nokia's...

and Wp 7.8 IS a major Update... its not because we dont know YET what all the feature are it doesn't mean its not.....

+ your gona also get the TANGO update!!!!

Tango I consider minor, a la NoDo. But I always considered the TITAN in the same generation as the Lumia 800/710. If it's officially referred to as a Gen 1.5 device (so it's not straight out Gen 1.0), then I'll accept that. But to me, any device that launched with Mango (a-la TITAN, Lumia 800), was a Gen 2. But ok, gen 1.5 it is, still doesn't change that it could be receiving no major upgrade (depending on the features of 7.8). Put the correct features in 7.8 (I know I won't be receiving dual-core support, NFC support, and better resolutions, and I don't give a damn about those) and I will forgive Microsoft. I'll still be cheesed off at Microsoft, but soften the blow enough and I won't treat it as me being torched by them.

 

[littlesteelo16]

well its more like a 1.5 gen, lol ( that's what they call it )

the TITAN 2 , is second Gen like the Nokia's...

and Wp 7.8 IS a major Update... we only know 1 feature ( the UI ) so far .
MS is still hiding all the feature from us. so it pre-mature to assume anything

+ your also getting the TANGO update!!!! thats 2 updates...

The Titan is most definitely a 2nd gen device. The only difference between it and the Titan II is the camera.

Also, Tango doesn't count. It adds very little, if anything to the UX. I don't think there is going to be much above the start screen in 7.8. Even WP8 itself was pretty underwhelming to say MS consider it to be such a huge upgrade.

 

[turbulent28]

smartphone beta test is over everyone!

lol

 

[selfcreation]

i think whats happening is that MOST of the new feature coming out on WP8 are CODDED to run on Dual-core... meaning ti just wont work properly on Single core phones..

now i dont see this being a major issue , but MS might want to offer the best user experience and making you LAG liek crazy with Apollo on first GEN might just cause MORE problems...

but im assuming this...

TEven WP8 itself was pretty underwhelming to say MS consider it to be such a huge upgrade.

Underwhelming? we dont even know what we are getting yet!! ROLF.... per-mature much .. they gave us 8 features.....

 

[Daniel Ratcliffe]

i think whats happening is that MOST of the new feature coming out on WP8 are CODDED to run on Dual-core... meaning ti just wont work properly on Single core phones..

I can do VoIP integration on my single core Android tab without lag or other problems. Why can't Microsoft pull it off?

now i dont see this being a major issue , but MS might want to offer the best user experience and making you LAG liek crazy with Apollo on first GEN might just cause MORE problems...

but im assuming this...

Yeah, I'm all for providing the best user experience possible, as it makes people want to go to your platform. But they should see what other platforms have achieved with a single core processor and at least get features from there in, E.G. my VoIP integration example with my tablet (and I'm sure I remember my 800MHz Single-Core HTC Desire Z having VoIP integration on GB).

Underwhelming? we dont even know what we are getting yet!! ROLF.... per-mature much .. they gave us 8 features.....

I have a feeling there's a lot more to WP8 than what they've said, so I'm on your side here.

 

[astraith]

People are always upset when they find out a certain device won't get an upgrade. Google has been trying to fight this, but it happens to every company. And honestly, THEY ARE getting an upgrade. Just not any new features, sure, but that doesn't make your Lumia 900 out of date. It's still a sweet phone.

I mean, I have a Samsung Galaxy 2 and tha GS3 just was released ... sure, I wish I could get the new UI improvements, and the newer ICS features but I don't think Sprint will ever bring it over to me. At least your Lumia will get the new UI, which is a HUGE feature upgrade.

 

[tk-093]

FYI: They are still selling the iPhone 4! Yes, the old school iPhone 4 with no Siri and no iOS6 Turn by Turn navigation and whatever else they are not getting. People are still selling it and people are still buying it and the world isn't ending.

 

[Jon Sheline]

Everybody just needs to get a grip!
Ever since the announcement yesterday, all the tech blog forums and comment boards have been drowning in high drama and extrapolation.
Yeah, I bought a Lumia 900 on the first day of pre-orders. My phone is 3 months old. It hasn't experienced any of the issues a lot of other people talked about (disappearing keyboard, etc...) I love my WP Lumia 900 because of what it is and what it does. It's going to continue doing these things for quite a while and it's going to do them independently of the release of WP 8.
So the hardware is going to be outdated in a few months...welcome to technology in the 21st century.
I see many fellow WP 7 users losing their minds over something that has never been a guaranteed "right" for any mobile device user, ever (that your device will stay cutting edge for the duration of your contract).
What I'm seeing is not only failure to understand what we did learn yesterday, but a whole host of dramatic speculations on information not given.
Windows Phone 8 won't even be released for another 3 months or so, and even then, it seems like people are expecting their WP 7 devices to magically turn into bricks on that day. Not going to happen.
Truth is, Microsoft has said nothing to us about WP 7 app support as it relates to the release of WP 8. All we've learned is the kernel difference, and the fact that all WP 7 apps will work with WP 8, though not the other way around. So why does this lack of info automagically mean that the worst is going to happen; that there will be no more Apps on WP 7?
This issue is going to be left up to developers. Sure, some will wait for WP 8 because they don't want do create 2 versions of an app. But doesn't anybody think, like I do, that these devs will take the high road and continue to release WP 7 apps in tandem with their WP versions? Is this so hard to imagine?

I like to think that I'll stick with my Lumia for at least another year, but speaking more realistically, I'll probably be seduced by WP 8 when it comes out (because it seems so awesome).

Seriously, folks...is it too much to ask for everyone to reserve judgement until we get the adequate info. All this wailing and gnashing of teeth is getting on my nerves.

 

[N8ter]

Tango I consider minor, a la NoDo. But I always considered the TITAN in the same generation as the Lumia 800/710. If it's officially referred to as a Gen 1.5 device (so it's not straight out Gen 1.0), then I'll accept that. But to me, any device that launched with Mango (a-la TITAN, Lumia 800), was a Gen 2. But ok, gen 1.5 it is, still doesn't change that it could be receiving no major upgrade (depending on the features of 7.8). Put the correct features in 7.8 (I know I won't be receiving dual-core support, NFC support, and better resolutions, and I don't give a damn about those) and I will forgive Microsoft. I'll still be cheesed off at Microsoft, but soften the blow enough and I won't treat it as me being torched by them.

The titan is a second gen WP7 device. The only reason why the Titan II exists is for AT&T to milk cash the same way they did with the SGS2 and SGS2-Skyrocket. Not sure why anyone would argue it's a 1.5gen device. It sounds comical, to say the least.

 

[N8ter]

People are always upset when they find out a certain device won't get an upgrade. Google has been trying to fight this, but it happens to every company. And honestly, THEY ARE getting an upgrade. Just not any new features, sure, but that doesn't make your Lumia 900 out of date. It's still a sweet phone.

I mean, I have a Samsung Galaxy 2 and tha GS3 just was released ... sure, I wish I could get the new UI improvements, and the newer ICS features but I don't think Sprint will ever bring it over to me. At least your Lumia will get the new UI, which is a HUGE feature upgrade.

The GS3 is coming out at least a full year after the GS2. The L900 isn't getting a full OS upgrade and it hasn't even been out for 6 months.

The GS2 just got ICS from Samsung. And it's full ICS, not an ICS launcher and some bits and pieces here and there.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. There's no equivalency here. The differences in TW/Camera Software are OEM customization largely absent on non-Nokia WP7 devices, anyways. Not getting TW Nature UX is not even a factor in the GS2 updates...

Since the FroYo update debacles Android OEMs have improved tremendously at delivering updatess.

Better late than never.

Lol new UI huge feature upgrade... I mean on other OSes you can do that without updating your FW anytime you want. That's not what people wanted. They wanted compatibility with the ecosystem as it moved forward. They'll still have over a year on their contracts when WP8 launches and you can bet they will start feeling the RIM errr... pain a few months after release as developers move to WP8 and start abandoning support for WP7 devices - cause in Mobile developers are already stretched thing with so many platforms to maintain a presence on.

 

[eric12341]

Titan, Lumia ,etc are Gen 1.5 devices. The version number only went up by half in between them so that's only a half generation rather than full. The way I see this is that MS just did what Apple did, say the Gen 1 devices such as the HD7 are the original iPhone and the Gen 1.5 devices are the iPhone 3G. The iPhone 3G did not get updated past iOS2 once the 3GS came out that changed. This is what MS is doing except that they're being nice enough to still offer some of what WP8 has to offer. But I guess that's a crime.

 

[OMG55]

I think it's unfair to say normal users are upset. Normal users are not even likely to check tech-blogs/know there was an announcement. It's the people who are more tech inclined who comment on these types of things.

I was recently over at the Verge and saw many comments that presented wrong information on the 7.8 update. Granted that there aren't any more details on the software specs and feature updates, how can we assume that we're just getting a "start screen update". I'm confident that Microsoft will update the existing software and add on cool new features such as better speech, ui, interfaces, and integration. It might not be the whole Windows Phone 8, but I would be satisfied with it.

I have to agree with the Lumia 900 comments though. I feel like that was an ill-timed release. Consumers have the mind-set that when they buy the latest item on the shelf, it should be the latest and greatest. Seeing a new operating system (i.e new phones) in the Fall would be a bit upsetting. Granted again, the normal users wouldn't check on the tech/micro blogs about the update now, but would see new phones when they browse their carrier stores this fall.

I think we should wait and see what Windows Phone 7.8 gets us. (I know i'll be sticking to it for a while, still have 1 year for an upgrade)

I was impatient and upgraded my plan to get the Lumia 900, but I am not upset. This is because MS didn't promise us anything concern L900 being upgradeable to WP8. If I have a beef, it's with manufacturers like HTC, Samsung, and Nokia. Everyone know that this device manufacturers knew what WP8 entailed prior to releasing the L900, Titan II, Radar, 610/710, Focus S/Flash, yet the release them anyway. They could have release them with specs that allowed us to receive the full upgrade to WP8, yet they chose not too! So again, if they are standup partners and are concerned about us, they will work with cell carriers to offer some sort of incentive for us to upgrade earlier. I will say Nokia has done more than enough to keep me with any further compensation: they refunded us 100, had multiple updates to fix issue with their hardware.....what other manufacturer has done this??

 

[based_graham]

If you want a slow and sluggish phone you should be upset

If you want a fast phone good experience you shouldn't because MS and Nokia clearly stated they want to support legacy devices they want to make sure people that have bought WP and supported the platform are supported.

Bottom line don't try to make something that shouldn't work WORK.

What is MS known for WINDOWS.. Slow... Crappy.

That's because people try using newer software on old *** hardware.

 

[OMG55]

If you want a slow and sluggish phone you should be upset

If you want a fast phone good experience you shouldn't because MS and Nokia clearly stated they want to support legacy devices they want to make sure people that have bought WP and supported the platform are supported.

Bottom line don't try to make something that shouldn't work WORK.

What is MS known for WINDOWS.. Slow... Crappy.

That's because people try using newer software on old *** hardware.

Please know what you're talking about before you speak. The thing that make any PC slow is third party software added onto the base system, inadequate HD space, not enough memory, poor graphics card, inferior cpu, among other things. Even mac are built around specs; Apple limits the amount of third party drivers/bloatware that are allow on their systems. MS on the other hand, allow manufacturers freedom to include add-ons to the base system which may affect performance, but if you know what you doing, you can remove all of the bloatware thereby restoring top notch performance. You're average consume does know this so is unaware and manufacturers install all of this extra stuff to temp uninformed users to buy their items to increase there profit margins.....Apple keeps all of its profit to itself which isn't a bad for them.

 

[mb-dape]

Titan, Lumia ,etc are Gen 1.5 devices. The version number only went up by half in between them so that's only a half generation rather than full. The way I see this is that MS just did what Apple did, say the Gen 1 devices such as the HD7 are the original iPhone and the Gen 1.5 devices are the iPhone 3G. The iPhone 3G did not get updated past iOS2 once the 3GS came out that changed. This is what MS is doing except that they're being nice enough to still offer some of what WP8 has to offer. But I guess that's a crime.

Well, it is not only the version number of the OS that matters. Hardwarewise they differs a lot. Gen 2 (Titan, Lumia) devices uses a much more powerfull SOC, not only CPU is faster, GPU is up to 4 times faster, RAM speed is better, system bus speed is better. Internal NAND is also faster.

It is a big difference IRL between gen 1 and gen 2. Saying that the gen 2 devices hardware is so outdated that it would not be capable of handling an modern smartphone OS is unfair.

Your iPhone comparsion does not makes sense at all.

iPhone 3G was released July 2008 with iOS 2.
In June 2009 it got the 3.0 upgrade which was a major one with many new features.
In June 2010 it got the 4.0 upgrade (except some features the hardware didnt handle) but still many improvements. Soon after the release many complain about slow performance on the 3G. In a couple of months Apple released the 4.1 update that improved the performance of 3G.
The 3G even got 4.2 and 4.2.1 in november 2010 which included some fixes and even new features.

The 3G got support from Apple for almost 2 and a half year! It doesnt get any better then that.

Even the most brainwashed WP fanboys must see that the situation for the Lumia 900 and Titan / Titan II in 2,5 years does not look good, to say at least.

 

[rebel_yell]

Spare me

"Why Microsoft just made a huge mistake". Really? You should go to work for RIM. Anyone here ever own a BB? Read the CB forums? I did, and did. Keyword - DID. If you weren't depressed before reading them, you were positively suicidal afterwards. What I learned from owning a BB and reading the thoughts of other owners is that RIM is going out of business because they won't keep up with technology, or they are too slow with updates (of any kind), or listen to their customer base or ... <insert your favorite whine here>. I never complained once. I just bought a different phone. The greatest phone since sliced bread - an Atrix. 30 days later my new super phone left my house on a UPS truck to pursue other opportunities.


I've had my Titan since November of last year. I bought a Titan II for my grandson (14 yo) about 3 months later. Even though they can not run Apollo, I could care less. I don't feel cheated, I don't hate Microsoft. I'm not going to sell them on eBay and buy an Android. I've had my fill of Android. You like Android? Go for it. If you gave me the latest Android device I would sell it on eBay and buy a Lumia 900 even though it's a "Legacy" device. I'm going to stick with a company that is forward looking and is going to supply it's customers with the latest hardware and an OS that is second to none, IMO. And one more thing - when exactly is the best time to roll out a ground breaking change such as this? When your Lumia is 6 months old? 9 months old? A year? When your contract is up? What about my contract? It might not expire until a year after yours. It isn't fair that you get to buy a new WP8 phone before me. CRY ME A RIVER. My WP7.5 beats the pants off of almost any other phone in existance and it STILL runs like smooth, creamy butter. With the release of WP8 I now have something to look forward to. Kinda like when I used to wait for the next Android OS release, or the next best BlackBerry phone, or the next BlackBerry OS update except it isn't. The next best EVERYTHING is right around the corner - literally.

I just realized I didn't mention the iPhone. Ok, I just did.