In case of time frame experience, whic is better? 1st or 2nd gen devices?

HeyCori

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To be fair I think its extremely unlikely that Windows Phone 9 will be the same level of what Windows Phone 8 is; however that does not mean MS will not make some weird reason why WP8 devices cannot be upgraded to WP9.

Microsoft did promise minimum 18 months of updates for WP8 phones. Factor in development time for the next update (whether it's WP9 or WP10), and you're looking at two years of updates before WP8 reaches EOL. Then I think those upcoming 3rd gen devices will face a similar situation to what we have now with 7.8, meaning that 3rd gen devices will only receive a partial update. And the people that really get screwed are those that buy a 3rd gen device near the end of the 18 month cut-off. Sounds brutal but still a bit better than Android. Microsoft is trying to ensure that all of their products receive some sort of update, whereas Android handset makers still cherry pick what phones they will update. Some Android phones will receive updates for a year+ and some get EOL way early.
 

pjs37

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Yeah its hard saying because WP8 is such a leap in terms of what the phone can do I can't imagine what WP9 would bring to the table. My only concern with how MS is doing WP8 is that they are putting features in that clearly developers are going to want and develop for that will not work in WP7.8 such as In App Purchases. That is a HUGE deal for App developers and is what brings in the buck-o bucks. The fact that there is no plans for MS to make this work in WP7 is abysmal. Just because you say you support something does not necessarily mean it gets the support it deserves.
 

kenzibit

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Yeah its hard saying because WP8 is such a leap in terms of what the phone can do I can't imagine what WP9 would bring to the table. My only concern with how MS is doing WP8 is that they are putting features in that clearly developers are going to want and develop for that will not work in WP7.8 such as In App Purchases. That is a HUGE deal for App developers and is what brings in the buck-o bucks. The fact that there is no plans for MS to make this work in WP7 is abysmal. Just because you say you support something does not necessarily mean it gets the support it deserves.

Exactly and this is my concern and why I started this thread. I'm glad you understand me perfectly.
 

AngryNil

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Just look at our android folks, phones with Froyo (very old version of Android) are still getting new released apps for even the ICS & will definitely get the ones for JB updates even though they were not able to upgrade to gingerbread....
Going off the top of my head, so don't quote me on this. If the developer targets ICS-specific functionality, the app won't work on FroYo devices. Backwards compatibility is not guaranteed, Chrome for Android is not available for pre-ICS builds. It's also a problem on Android that the devices "left behind" will not get all the security enhancements of the latest versions of Android. It's just messy to roll out security updates for 2.2.5 on this device, then 2.3.4 on that one, etc.

Then I think those upcoming 3rd gen devices will face a similar situation to what we have now with 7.8, meaning that 3rd gen devices will only receive a partial update.
Why would that happen, and why would the situation be anywhere similar? There are very few WP8 features which our devices are incapable of running, it's more to do with porting annoyances and the kernel shift. Neither will be problems for WP9 that Microsoft will be able to hide behind.

To those saying "oh, they could do it again" - no, they haven't changed the kernel up to this point and there's no reason for them to switch again. It's what all their products are going to be running.
 
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HeyCori

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Why would that happen, and why would the situation be anywhere similar? There are very few WP8 features which our devices are incapable of running, it's more to do with porting annoyances and the kernel shift. Neither will be problems for WP9 that Microsoft will be able to hide behind.

In two years time a company like HTC might have 5-6 (maybe even more) WP8 devices spread out across several markets, and probably 2-3 next gen phones in the pipeline. That's a considerable amount of work for Microsoft to update all those phones plus updating all the Samsung's phones, Nokia's phones, and various WP8 OEMs. The OEMs also have to do their part as well but also have to focus on their Android devices too. It's not so much a technical issue as it is a workload issue. But that's just my guess.
 

pjs37

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To be honest an 18 month support cycle is fair. I think it is a bit much to expect all WP8 devices to run WP9 but the problem is what is their view of "support" and if it will be the same "support" they are showing for late generation WP7 devices...which beyond the start screen is not much else.
 

blehblehbleh

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In two years time a company like HTC might have 5-6 (maybe even more) WP8 devices spread out across several markets, and probably 2-3 next gen phones in the pipeline. That's a considerable amount of work for Microsoft to update all those phones plus updating all the Samsung's phones, Nokia's phones, and various WP8 OEMs. The OEMs also have to do their part as well but also have to focus on their Android devices too. It's not so much a technical issue as it is a workload issue. But that's just my guess.

Isn't that why MS has a fairly strict hardware spec that oem's must follow in the first place? There's not a mass differentiation in hardware like PC's.
 

HeyCori

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Isn't that why MS has a fairly strict hardware spec that oem's must follow in the first place? There's not a mass differentiation in hardware like PC's.

True, and yet look at the update fiasco with NoDo on the Samsung Focus 1.3 and 1.4. Small changes, big problems.
 

blehblehbleh

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True, and yet look at the update fiasco with NoDo on the Samsung Focus 1.3 and 1.4. Small changes, big problems.

If I remember correctly that was Samsung's fault for going beyond the spec requirements without approval. MS was kind enough, or rather forced to, configure NoDo for that.

Whether that happens again is uncertain, sure, but I wouldn't doubt that MS would ensure that there isn't a repeat.
 

AngryNil

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In two years time a company like HTC might have 5-6 (maybe even more) WP8 devices spread out across several markets, and probably 2-3 next gen phones in the pipeline.
If Microsoft can't support 5-6 devices from each of the four manufacturers, it should give up now. I understand WP8 devices may not get WP9, but it won't be the same as the WP7 to WP8 jump.

I don't buy the workload issue. If Microsoft's mobile efforts continue to stumble along, sure. If Windows Phone becomes a success and turns in a profit, then they should put more resources behind it. Get the manufacturers to step in more (if they don't already), Microsoft releases the generic update and the manufacturers do the work. There are limited launch partners, so it seems Microsoft can control this.
 
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HeyCori

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Microsoft releases the generic update and the manufacturers do the work. There are limited launch partners, so it seems Microsoft can control this.

That's basically how Android works now. Google releases an update. OEMs pick and choose which devices are worth their time to update. I'm not a huge fan of that system.
 

kenzibit

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If Microsoft can't support 5-6 devices from each of the four manufacturers, it should give up now. I understand WP8 devices may not get WP9, but it won't be the same as the WP7 to WP8 jump.

And what would be those fundamental reasons as to why WP8 won't get WP9 if it's not a jump again? Hardware?, Kernel? or the Benjamins?
 

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