In case of time frame experience, whic is better? 1st or 2nd gen devices?

[kenzibit]

So basically trust no one, believe in kenzibit? Deal.

Lol...just sharing my thoughts bro......just sharing my thoughts

 

[HeyCori]

lol

 

[pjs37]

There's nothing wrong with an honest assessment but Nokia have said they will continue to support 2nd gen devices and Microsoft also pledged continue support. And while that probably means nothing more than apps and (if need be) bug fixes, 7.8 will still have someone watching over it even after the release of WP8. Also, Microsoft has stated that they are bringing the new start screen and more but have yet to specify what additional features might come.

I just want to say I hope I am stupidly wrong so when I am gushing over whatever someone will say "Hey aren't you one of the idiots who said MS wouldn't support this and look they did" but honestly I think there is more truth in their actions rather than what they say. They say other features coming features coming in 7.8 bu won't say what it is. Well we know what it isn't so far. The fact that they won't even support in-app purchases something that wouldn't even need a change to anything on the phone I think spells volumes. What we will get probably will be the start screen, and some trademark changes like Zune music being rebranded, and maybe some compatibility for outlook.com names like a new icon for that. They are not leaving much hope for anything with their announcements so far. Heck we won't even get 7.8 until after WP8 is launched it sounds like.

If you want to see something how MS handled it last time read this: Microsoft:

and then look at how WM 6.5 died.

 

[kenzibit]

I just want to say I hope I am stupidly wrong so when I am gushing over whatever someone will say "Hey aren't you one of the idiots who said MS wouldn't support this and look they did" but honestly I think there is more truth in their actions rather than what they say. They say other features coming features coming in 7.8 bu won't say what it is. Well we know what it isn't so far. The fact that they won't even support in-app purchases something that wouldn't even need a change to anything on the phone I think spells volumes. What we will get probably will be the start screen, and some trademark changes like Zune music being rebranded, and maybe some compatibility for outlook.com names like a new icon for that. They are not leaving much hope for anything with their announcements so far. Heck we won't even get 7.8 until after WP8 is launched it sounds like.



If you want to see something how MS handled it last time read this: Microsoft:

and then look at how WM 6.5 died.

Soo sweet, thank you.
And I quote from the article:
"For its part, Microsoft says it will not abandon the current Windows Mobile 6.x platform once Windows Phone 7 arrives. The OS will be rebranded as Windows Phone Classic and retained for budget-minded smartphone buyers as well as business customers with 6.x-based apps."
This is deja vu' with WP7 now and I really dont want to comment anymore. This is indeed the Microsoft way and there's nothing we can do about it....no doubt. I love Windows Phone (will never switch) but I goess it doesn't love me, what I call, The Curse of an Early Adopter
And for the fun part, the HTC HD2 back then is now the Lumia 900 and Titan II....LOL


Sent from my HTC HD7 using Board Express

 

[blehblehbleh]

Most likely due to the fact that MS has not shown this to be true in any case. They said when WP7 was released and killed of WM 6.5 that they were done this was a complete reboot that was needed. And then two years later they do it again and this time leaving tons of new users out to dry with no support. So historically there is no evidence they won't do this again with WP 9

Are you saying you have inside knowledge on the development of a new kernel for both Windows and Windows Phone?

 

[kenzibit]

Are you saying you have inside knowledge on the development of a new kernel for both Windows and Windows Phone?

Maybe....there are MS guys in disguise in here.

 

[pjs37]

Are you saying you have inside knowledge on the development of a new kernel for both Windows and Windows Phone?

Yes you caught me red-handed.

Or I am just doing what ever single other person here does and comments and speculates based on how MS does things and what they say? I don't operate any under assumption that MS reads these forums or even cares what I or anyone else really says. I just felt like having an interesting discussion about the way MS does its Phone based operating system and in support of the OP's post which is historically so far buying a late gen device running a MS OS has so far not panned out for anyone which is an entirely valid point.

 

[AngryNil]

I feel like 1st gen owners were served well. Contracts are up (except in Canada!), we keep our purchases and move to a better platform. However, my Lumia 800 does seem slightly dejected - while you can argue that Android isn't (much) better, Windows Phone was never about matching Android.

 

[kenzibit]

I feel like 1st gen owners were served well.

Exactly and the main reason why I started this thread. Just wanted a general point of view because I'm really going to get a first gen WP8 device because I fear if I get a second gen phone, I might use it for a very short time since I might not be able to upgrade to WP9....Same thing happening now and MS will definetly repeat this again no matter what they say now to console us, no doubt..they are now known for this.

Contracts are up (except in Canada!), we keep our purchases and move to a better platform. However, my Lumia 800 does seem slightly dejected - while you can argue that Android isn't (much) better, Windows Phone was never about matching Android.

I guess you people are even lucky to be on contracts...at least you get to change your phones or buy heavy specs phones at a very low price....seriously cheap. Place yourself in my shoes where your country even doesn't support carrier based phones and contracts. You have to buy phones with the price they come with....****ing expensive.
I think most of us in this situations are not very lucky therfore I get very angry when I buy an expensive phone which loses it's support and love too early. My HTC HD7 is almost 2 years and thought I could use this phone for years (maybe 5) but...will be forgotten very soon and I can't use a phone whereby I don't get new apps and system updates. So I'll say you guys are very lucky to be on Contracts, you get to change your phones every 2 years? wow.....it's life saving for you guys.

 

[eric12341]

^actually buying phones on contract here costs more in the long run than just buying them outright

 

[cp2_4eva]

I'm beginning to side with Kenzbit on this one. I'm a fairly new WP device owner. I jumped on the Lumia 900 the first day it came out. This was my very first WP device. and here it is August and they are already talking about WP8 this fall. What is a man to do? I feel like I got juked a bit and I can imagine others feel the same way. Before I even bought the Lumia I was trying to do all my research on whether or not these devices would get WP8. After countless forum threads and whatnot, I was almost certain that my device would get it. And now this......7.8. It's a step up yes, but is it WP8? Nope. But we really don't even know how much of a gap there will be between the two.

 

[jimski]

My HTC HD7 is almost 2 years and thought I could use this phone for years (maybe 5) but...will be forgotten very soon and I can't use a phone whereby I don't get new apps and system updates.

So you want to use your phone for 5 years. No problem. You also want to continue to get support and updates for those 5 years. Problem. No one ever promised that. And why can't you "use" your phone after October 26th?

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express Pro

 

[N8ter]

6.5 to 7 was only a partial reboot and the NT kernel wasn't compatible with ARM at the time or else they would've done it then. The Greg Sullivan interview explains this.

It was a complete reboot. They changed the entire UI and software stack rendering WM 6.5 development tools and applications instantly and pretty much completely incompatible. The fact that they use the same kernel (or rather, the latter uses an updated version of the same kernel to be more specific) is inconsequential.

That is why the OS capabilities dropped miles going from 6.5 to 7. Not even Microsoft could easily port that stuff over themselves.

 

[eric12341]

I'm beginning to side with Kenzbit on this one. I'm a fairly new WP device owner. I jumped on the Lumia 900 the first day it came out. This was my very first WP device. and here it is August and they are already talking about WP8 this fall. What is a man to do? I feel like I got juked a bit and I can imagine others feel the same way. Before I even bought the Lumia I was trying to do all my research on whether or not these devices would get WP8. After countless forum threads and whatnot, I was almost certain that my device would get it. And now this......7.8. It's a step up yes, but is it WP8? Nope. But we really don't even know how much of a gap there will be between the two.

7.8 is WP8 without all the hardware intensive features, they just didn't call it 8 because well it technically isn't. For what it's worth we don't even know what all is included in WP8 so of course we aren't going to know about 7.8

 

[kenzibit]

So you want to use your phone for 5 years. No problem. You also want to continue to get support and updates for those 5 years. Problem. No one ever promised that. And why can't you "use" your phone after October 26th?

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express Pro

I agree with you that nobody promised that but at least I should even get a long lasting support even if I'm not getting major system updates. Just look at our android folks, phones with Froyo (very old version of Android) are still getting new released apps for even the ICS & will definitely get the ones for JB updates even though they were not able to upgrade to gingerbread....is it because of the same kernel they using? I always say this, although MSFT has promised support and everything for WP7.8, I still believe it wouldn't last more than WM 6.5. I agree with MSFT about the decisions made and the way forward but the truth is clear, this is a switched Kernel which will drive all app developers to WP8 and aparently WP7.8 WIll be neglected....and the baddest thing is WP7.8 not being able to run WP8 apps.....all wouuld have been perfect for most of us if that was possible coz I'll still get newly released apps just like the way android froyo is getting everything on the android OS. It's all about support my brother.

 

[kenzibit]

7.8 is WP8 without all the hardware intensive features, they just didn't call it 8 because well it technically isn't. For what it's worth we don't even know what all is included in WP8 so of course we aren't going to know about 7.8

No...No...No...No...you can't really say that because we don't know what 7.8 is bringing. Have thought about MS finding it difficult to bring some features to 7.8 because it's just too difficult with the the 7.8 kernel? All is not about Hardware intensive features, it's about the ease of porting the new system features to the old kernel....which is kind of difficult ....and you know MSFT wouldn't bother themselves too much with those problems, they are moving forward and they will like us to come along.

 

[HeyCori]

I agree with you that nobody promised that but at least I should even get a long lasting support even if I'm not getting major system updates. Just look at our android folks, phones with Froyo (very old version of Android) are still getting new released apps for even the ICS & will definitely get the ones for JB updates even though they were not able to upgrade to gingerbread....is it because of the same kernel they using?

Pretty much. Android has gotten stronger, faster and smarter but the core of the OS remains pretty much the same. The other factor that is that many devs still program for Gingerbread. Some devs do make apps that won't run on older versions of Android, that's why Google implemented a compatability check for the Android market. Another reason I think devs still focus on Gingerbread is because, according to Intel, dual core is "wasted on Android." I think most don't see a reason to program for dual core if the OS doesn't take good advantage of it.

 

[eric12341]

I agree with you that nobody promised that but at least I should even get a long lasting support even if I'm not getting major system updates. Just look at our android folks, phones with Froyo (very old version of Android) are still getting new released apps for even the ICS & will definitely get the ones for JB updates even though they were not able to upgrade to gingerbread....is it because of the same kernel they using? I always say this, although MSFT has promised support and everything for WP7.8, I still believe it wouldn't last more than WM 6.5. I agree with MSFT about the decisions made and the way forward but the truth is clear, this is a switched Kernel which will drive all app developers to WP8 and aparently WP7.8 WIll be neglected....and the baddest thing is WP7.8 not being able to run WP8 apps.....all wouuld have been perfect for most of us if that was possible coz I'll still get newly released apps just like the way android froyo is getting everything on the android OS. It's all about support my brother.

If an android app is developed for gingerbread and above it will not run on froyo, also certain Android phones can't run certain apps due to screen size and resolution.

 

[blehblehbleh]

Yes you caught me red-handed.

Or I am just doing what ever single other person here does and comments and speculates based on how MS does things and what they say? I don't operate any under assumption that MS reads these forums or even cares what I or anyone else really says. I just felt like having an interesting discussion about the way MS does its Phone based operating system and in support of the OP's post which is historically so far buying a late gen device running a MS OS has so far not panned out for anyone which is an entirely valid point.

Sorry for being a bit obtuse. Your argument has merit and there is nothing definitive to say that MS couldn't go ahead and make an entire kernel or whatever change come WP9 or later, but I would say that not factoring the context of what MS is trying to do right now and in the near future with their products as a whole is a bit shortsighted.

 

[pjs37]

To be fair I think its extremely unlikely that Windows Phone 9 will be the same level of what Windows Phone 8 is; however that does not mean MS will not make some weird reason why WP8 devices cannot be upgraded to WP9. In terms of the topic the author is right: Buying an early gen device means when you are eligible for an upgrade the new OS will be coming out soon; I would say it is hazardous to buy a Windows Phone within a year of an expected major OS update if you know about it and care about such things.

Now all that being said I think what we will see actually is the end of major Windows Revisions. I think you will see something similar to that of iOS with many evolutionary updates to the OS both Windows RT and Windows Phone 8. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if they drop the 8 and just call it Windows Phone. This would replace the current MS system which is a major new overhaul every few years with a few minor updates to the existing system. I think updates are more important to more end users now than ever before. People at work who I talk to completely non-technical users know about things like how Apple is dumping Google Maps for a custom in house system; or they ask me about when their Androids are getting updates like how iPhone does. Apple changed the paradigm and MS would be foolish to ignore it IMO.

Overall I am actually fairly excited at the changes Windows is bringing. I know many people don't but between MS Surface and Windows Phone and those features coming to Windows Desktop (Which Apple did as well with Lion and people thought that was brilliant MS does it and of course its a stupid idea now) The big changed next generation we will probably see if a unified SDK that build off of each platform WP being the base with more stuff to support Windows RT and more stuff for Windows 8 Pro.