WP8 with HSPA+42 on T-Mobile USA?

[TJWINS]

Hi Guys,
I couldn't help but check out the radio specs of the WP8 phones destined for T-Mobile USA (Lumia 820, HTC 8X & 8S, and Samsung Ativ S). All of their spec sheets list the HSPA+ network bands as 850/900/1900/2100 MHz. It is known that in order to receive HSPA+ on T-Mobile BOTH the 1700MHz and the 2100MHz bands must be supported. We know that T-Mobile is refarming their 1900 PCS band to support 3G/HSPA+ in most markets. However, we still don't know which markets they are and when the rollout will be completed. It is rumored that the refarming will be completed by the end of 2012 with LTE implementation starting in 2013 but nothing has been announced yet regarding the completion of the refarm. I'm assuming since all of the WP8 Phones destined for T-Mobile are missing the 1700MHz band support, that the OEMs must know something we don't. I was thinking of making the switch to tmo in November but don't want to have a bad WP8 experience by not having HSPA+42. Please chime in with your thoughts.....

 

[Winterfang]

They said is coming to T-mobile don't worry =).

 

[MAERSK]

Don't worry TJWINS. The word on the street is, that T-Mobile's got you covered. I'm taking the plunge as well and getting a 920 and joining T-Mobo.

 

[TJWINS]

Don't worry TJWINS. The word on the street is, that T-Mobile's got you covered. I'm taking the plunge as well and getting a 920 and joining T-Mobo.

So you are gonna pay the nose bleed and buy a 920 unlocked? I guess you will make up the difference on the contract savings over the next 2 years. I also saw the spec sheet on the Galaxy Note II for tmo and it is also missing the 1700 MHz support so I'm feeling pretty good about 1900 MHz HSPA+ for T-Mobile this fall

 

[Garrett92C]

Don't worry TJWINS. The word on the street is, that T-Mobile's got you covered. I'm taking the plunge as well and getting a 920 and joining T-Mobo.

Are you sure that's a good idea? T-Mobile still has a lot of work to do for the refarm. Until they get it ready in your area, you'll be stuck with very slow speeds.

 

[TJWINS]

Are you sure that's a good idea? T-Mobile still has a lot of work to do for the refarm. Until they get it ready in your area, you'll be stuck with very slow speeds.

Well T-Mobile is launching their unlocked iphone promotion and I don't think they would do that if the network wasn't ready. Plus as I mentioned earlier....all of the new phones slated for T-Mobile support the 1900 MHz band for HSPA+. I hope the rollout will be complete by end of 2012. I expect so since the new WP8 phones are due in November.

 

[brmiller1976]

Even after T-Mo refarms, you'll be getting single-channel HSPA with a non-AWS device. That will be 3 megabits/second versus an average of 24 to 36 using a proper AWS HSPA+42 device like one of HTCs or Samsung's WP8 handsets made for T-Mo.

The unlocked iPhone promo is strictly a value play for people who would otherwise get Sprint and their "slow-as-EDGE" 3G speeds. T-Mo isn't guaranteeing availability of HSPA for iOS devices on the 1900 MHz band.

 

[vp710]

Even after T-Mo refarms, you'll be getting single-channel HSPA with a non-AWS device. That will be 3 megabits/second versus an average of 24 to 36 using a proper AWS HSPA+42 device like one of HTCs or Samsung's WP8 handsets made for T-Mo.

The unlocked iPhone promo is strictly a value play for people who would otherwise get Sprint and their "slow-as-EDGE" 3G speeds. T-Mo isn't guaranteeing availability of HSPA for iOS devices on the 1900 MHz band.

But all these phones have the same kind of network support, no?

 

[TJWINS]

Even after T-Mo refarms, you'll be getting single-channel HSPA with a non-AWS device. That will be 3 megabits/second versus an average of 24 to 36 using a proper AWS HSPA+42 device like one of HTCs or Samsung's WP8 handsets made for T-Mo.

The unlocked iPhone promo is strictly a value play for people who would otherwise get Sprint and their "slow-as-EDGE" 3G speeds. T-Mo isn't guaranteeing availability of HSPA for iOS devices on the 1900 MHz band.

The HTC and Samsung WP8 devices made for T-mo support the same HSPA+ frequency bands as the iphone (850/900/1900/2100) and do not support the AWS (1700/2100) bands. There is no difference between the HTC 8X and the iphone 4S with regard to this subject. It was to the best of my knowledge that T-Mo was refarming to 1900 MHz to free up the AWS bands for LTE deployment and to allow more handsets to be compatible on the T-Mobile network. Spending $1.4B initially to supply 3mbits/s would be a stupid move on T-mo and I don't think that is their intention since iphone already gets 2G on the T-Mo network.

 

[brmiller1976]

No. T-Mobile's AWS network uses 1700/2100, while AT&T's uses 1900/2100.

Historically, this has meant that 1900/2100 devices have run only on EDGE (2.5G on T-Mo), very slowly.

T-Mobile is using a thin slice of 1900 MHz to emulate AT&T's 1900/2100 setup (which isn't supported by non-AWS/pentaband radios). As a result, 1900/2100 phones like the iPhone and 920 (as announced) will get 3G speeds for the first time on T-Mo.

But T-Mo's 4G tech uses full-speed HSPA+42 -- three parallel "pipes" of HSPA+14 over AWS 1700/2100. It will always be much, much faster than single-channel HSPA over 1900/2100.

T-Mo is also deploying LTE in 2013 (though the 8X is not expected to support it in its T-Mo incarnation). HSPA+42 gets similar speeds, but with higher latencies. Both LTE and HSPA+42 are vastly preferable to HSPA single-channel 3G on 1900/2100.

Long story short -- an unlocked worldphone without 1700/2100 WILL work on T-Mo, but at super-slow EDGE speeds (if you're unlucky and not in a refarmed area) or mere 3G speeds. I'm not sure ANY device makes up for not having access to T-Mo's full AWS HSPA+ 4G speeds, so I'd go with an AWS device over a "worldphone" without AWS support.

 

[vp710]

So some of these phones specifications must not be up to date then.

 

[brmiller1976]

The HTC and Samsung WP8 devices made for T-mo support the same HSPA+ frequency bands as the iphone (850/900/1900/2100) and do not support the AWS (1700/2100) bands.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

Any phone launched for T-Mobile USA will support AWS. Period. It's a base requirement for T-Mobile. T-Mo will NOT sell smartphones that lack AWS support.

Every handset launched on T-Mo has been modified from the international version for AWS (or is pentaband). That includes Lumia 710, HTC Radar, HTC HD7, and Android handsets like the One X and GS III, all of which were modified by the manufacturer to work with 1700/2100.

Any specs you're seeing in the 8X and ATIV announcements are for the "unlocked/international" handsets and have zero to do with the handsets specifically sold for T-Mo USA.

 

[TJWINS]

So some of these phones specifications must not be up to date then.

I guess not. Neither of the phones listed in my original post show support for 1700/2100 frequency bands which require HSPA+ on the AWS bands. Either one of two things is happening.....1) Either the specs are not updated or 2) T-Mobile is indeed refarming their HSPA+42 network to the 1900 MHz band since I don't think neither Nokia, Samsung, nor HTC would allow their flagship handsets to run on T-Mobile's 3G network. I'm thinking either the specs need updating or T-Mo promised the handset makers that the refarming would be completed at device launch. Something has to give....

 

[TJWINS]

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

Any phone launched for T-Mobile USA will support AWS. Period. It's a base requirement for T-Mobile. T-Mo will NOT sell smartphones that lack AWS support.

Every handset launched on T-Mo has been modified from the international version for AWS (or is pentaband). That includes Lumia 710, HTC Radar, HTC HD7, and Android handsets like the One X and GS III, all of which were modified by the manufacturer to work with 1700/2100.

Any specs you're seeing in the 8X and ATIV announcements are for the "unlocked/international" handsets and have zero to do with the handsets specifically sold for T-Mo USA.

OK that makes sense but you would think the manufacturer's website would list all the bands which the device supports. I didn't know they would exclude frequency bands for specific carriers. So that would support my original theory that the spec sheets need updating...

 

[vp710]

I don't understand why they don't release a global phone that has all network frequencies supported. They could at least do this by region (US, Europe, South America, Australia, China, etc).

Sent from my Lumia 710 using Board Express

 

[anon(5335877)]

I don't understand why they don't release a global phone that has all network frequencies supported. They could at least do this by region (US, Europe, South America, Australia, China, etc).

Sent from my Lumia 710 using Board Express

I don't make phones, but I heard it's not that easy trying to cram a bunch of frequencies into one phone. Something to do with the antennas. And it doesn't get simpler, because it used to be only GSM/EDGE, then they added 3G so that's new frequencies, and now we're on LTE, with even more frequencies.

And I thought that's what they do now, create phones for general regions with a some overlap in case you travel.

 

[brmiller1976]

Yep. Certain frequencies require certain antenna sizes, shapes and configurations to effectively receive and send signals. A phone with the "wrong" antenna shape for a particular frequency will drop calls, suffer from slow data speeds, and generally not perform well.

 

[TJWINS]

Are you sure that's a good idea? T-Mobile still has a lot of work to do for the refarm. Until they get it ready in your area, you'll be stuck with very slow speeds.

Rumor: AT&T looking to launch the Nokia Lumia 820, 920 on November 2nd | wpcentral | Windows Phone News, Forums, and Reviews

According to Daniel in this article, both the Lumia 920 and 820 are pentaband phones so they would both work perfectly on T-Mobile if unlocked. I disagree with the fact that it is difficult to build many frequency support into a phone. All OEMs have to do is place pentaband chipsets into their phones instead of quad or triband radios. Phone makers such as Nokia have been making pentaband phones for years. I think this has more to do with carriers trying to force consumers into staying on their network and not jumping ship to cross carriers without the consumer having to purchase a new phone.

 

[Winterfang]

Quick question.

When will T-mobile's LTE start? No phone currently is ready for it right?

 

[Garrett92C]

Rumor: AT&T looking to launch the Nokia Lumia 820, 920 on November 2nd | wpcentral | Windows Phone News, Forums, and Reviews

According to Daniel in this article, both the Lumia 920 and 820 are pentaband phones so they would both work perfectly on T-Mobile if unlocked. I disagree with the fact that it is difficult to build many frequency support into a phone. All OEMs have to do is place pentaband chipsets into their phones instead of quad or triband radios. Phone makers such as Nokia have been making pentaband phones for years. I think this has more to do with carriers trying to force consumers into staying on their network and not jumping ship to cross carriers without the consumer having to purchase a new phone.

Hmm. It seems that the article says that the chip set is able to support a pentaband radio but doesn't say that the Lumia actually uses one. It would be great if it did, but we need actual confirmation.

-- Sent via mobile