The "app gap" between WP8 and Android/iOS isn't as big as you might think...

mpelti

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It's not about quantity, it's about quality. Things will likely get better, but right now, the app ecosystem is a big downside to this platform. Take a look at the "top free" lists for each platform:

Android
Windows Phone 8

Which one has the most fluff and garbage on those lists? Many apps show up on each list, but plenty are missing from WP8, and instead there are 3rd party knockoffs and lots of free wallpaper/ringtone fluff.

Where are the official apps from major sports leagues? MLS has one, but no NFL, MLB, or NHL?

Where are the streaming video apps? Crackle, Netflix, and Crunchyroll are all good, but where's Hulu, HBO Go, ABC/CBS/Fox/NBC, Xfinity, BBC iPlayer, WatchESPN, MLB.tv, or NHL Gamecenter?

Official banking apps, only a few so far. Official airline apps, ditto.

Also, how many of the apps are just placeholders? I still consider Yelp to be a missing app, because even though it is in the store, it has almost no features.

So this is a problem, and it does need to improve.
 
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hopmedic

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I'd like to speak to the freemium comments above... When a developer puts his time and effort into an app, he needs to get something out of it. There isn't as much money in this as you might think. Yes, there are the occasional hits where someone makes tens of thousands or more, but those aren't common. Myself, I made less than $20 last month on my apps. Granted, I don't have a lot of time to put toward development, as I do it on the side, in my spare time (what spare time?), but whatever is the best way to make the money, that's the way to go. As for me, the way I'm doing it is in ads, simply because that's the most effortless for the time that I have to spend right now, but don't knock the guys who use freemium. If you don't want to play their games, don't. But don't knock them for wanting to make something for their hard work.
 

bigkevbosky

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But don't knock them for wanting to make something for their hard work.


I'm not - they can charge for their apps, or put ads in their apps, but I think the "freemium" app only exists to trick people (kids) into unknowingly spending actual money.

Why does Gameloft, for example, have to charge $0.99 for Asphalt 7, and then have TONS of in app purchases for, yknow, nitro boost and different car colors and stuff? They're GAMELOFT, presumably very profitable, and they could charge $2.99 or whatever for the app instead and just give you the entire game. They're trying to intentionally trick people who play the games (again, mostly kids) into giving them more money than they'd get just by charging a fair price for the app in the first place.

And, the freemium model wasn't a problem before, but now way too many apps in iOS are using it, including non games. Its infuriating.
 

bigkevbosky

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Which one has the most fluff and garbage on those lists? Many apps show up on each list, but plenty are missing from WP8, and instead there are 3rd party knockoffs and lots of free wallpaper/ringtone fluff.

Where are the official apps from major sports leagues? MLS has one, but no NFL, MLB, or NHL?

You're right, but I don't get the knock. If I search for any sport, I can find at least 2 or 3 decent apps to give me scores, team info, league info, etc. Who cares who designs and codes the app? If the same functionality is there, its there.

Where are the streaming video apps? Crackle, Netflix, and Crunchyroll are all good, but where's Hulu, HBO Go, ABC/CBS/Fox/NBC, Xfinity, BBC iPlayer, WatchESPN, MLB.tv, or NHL Gamecenter?

Again, you're right, but you've named a total of 14 different ways to watch sh*t on your phones. I know people in New York and Boston think the world revolves around them, but not everyone lives in a city where nobody drives and sits on commuter trains watching their phones all day long. I rarely, RARELY, ever see people in public watching TV or movies on their phones. And can you not watch some of these things through their web app equivalents? I'm genuinely curious because, again, I watch TV, yknow, at home. On my TV.

Official banking apps, only a few so far. Official airline apps, ditto.

Ok. If you're like most people, you fly like once a year. So I can't get my official Hawaiian airlines app the one time I go to Hawaii. Great.

Again, my point isn't that there ISN'T an app gap, because there IS, its just not as bad as all the reviews make it out to be. A handful of missing apps does not mean there's a HUGE HOLE in the WP marketplace. Its like saying there's a huge GAME GAP on Playstation because it doesn't have Halo or Gears of War. Its just....untrue.

Also, how many of the apps are just placeholders? I still consider Yelp to be a missing app, because even though it is in the store, it has almost no features.

So this is a problem, and it does need to improve.

It's improving, but its a small problem, and overblown, like the "tank" jokes about the 920. Its uh, not that heavy, and not that much bigger than every other phone, but the weight and size issue is everywhere, because tech journalists who do nothing but review phones all day have to come up with SOMETHING to b*tch about in their blog posts.
 
Nov 20, 2012
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It's not about quantity, it's about quality. Things will likely get better, but right now, the app ecosystem is a big downside to this platform. Take a look at the "top free" lists for each platform:

Android
Windows Phone 8

Which one has the most fluff and garbage on those lists? Many apps show up on each list, but plenty are missing from WP8, and instead there are 3rd party knockoffs and lots of free wallpaper/ringtone fluff.

Where are the official apps from major sports leagues? MLS has one, but no NFL, MLB, or NHL?

Where are the streaming video apps? Crackle, Netflix, and Crunchyroll are all good, but where's Hulu, HBO Go, ABC/CBS/Fox/NBC, Xfinity, BBC iPlayer, WatchESPN, MLB.tv, or NHL Gamecenter?

Official banking apps, only a few so far. Official airline apps, ditto.

Also, how many of the apps are just placeholders? I still consider Yelp to be a missing app, because even though it is in the store, it has almost no features.

So this is a problem, and it does need to improve.
I don't know if it's a VZW or Nokia exclusive, but I have both ESPN and NFL mobile on my phone
 

runam0k

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It's simple: it's only ever an issue when you can't find the app you want.... which happens a lot on WP and almost never on iOS or Android.

It's a problem and I have noticed it numerous times. Most recent example for me: I want to use Spotify on my WP8. I can't until "early next year". Great. Splashtop is another example (yes, I can remote connect using other apps but they are not as good and they don't use my existing Splashtop installs). ETA for Splashtop on WP: none. Okay, not as critical for the masses as Angry Birds, but it illustrates the point nonetheless: WP is low (if not last) on most devs' list or priorities. There's no point pretending otherwise.
 

hopmedic

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I'm not - they can charge for their apps, or put ads in their apps, but I think the "freemium" app only exists to trick people (kids) into unknowingly spending actual money.

Why does Gameloft, for example, have to charge $0.99 for Asphalt 7, and then have TONS of in app purchases for, yknow, nitro boost and different car colors and stuff? They're GAMELOFT, presumably very profitable, and they could charge $2.99 or whatever for the app instead and just give you the entire game. They're trying to intentionally trick people who play the games (again, mostly kids) into giving them more money than they'd get just by charging a fair price for the app in the first place.

And, the freemium model wasn't a problem before, but now way too many apps in iOS are using it, including non games. Its infuriating. [/COLOR]

I'm not addressing the who - that's not my point. I'm speaking from the point of being an independent developer, so however the money can be gotten, that's the way an indie should do it - AS LONG AS IT IS ETHICAL. Big development houses, maybe not so much. You're right - they can afford to do things a bit differently. But from my perspective (and I am NOT a game developer, BTW, so I'm not in an area where the money is anyway), you get them hooked, you get them to like your app, then you throw them a bone that they can't resist.

One of my apps is a Weight Watchers points tracking app, for instance. Right now it's totally free, with ads at the bottom. Right now all it does calculate points based on fat, carbs, fiber, and protein, track your points on a daily and weekly basis, and if you have a WW online membership, you can log into the site within my app to look up points, say for restaurant food for instance. If I ever get time, I want to do a few more things. Add a database so you can create a list of your favorite foods, and their point values. Write a Windows 8 app. Make the two apps sync with each other through the cloud.

Now what I might end up doing is making the free version stay as it is right now, and charge for the extra features. It would be nice if MS had a way for us to charge on one platform and have the app downloadable free on the other - pay on one and it's paid for on the other, like iOS is (from what I understand of iOS, though I've never used iOS), but they currently do not. But that could be written into the app, though, if a developer wanted to do it, as well. The down side of that, since MS doesn't do it on their end, is that the dev would have to have his own server to do it on, which means paying for hosting, and maintaining a database of who's paid.

My app has a better rating than the official WW app, so if I add these features, I should be able to really knock it out of the park, but who knows... For some reason, I just can't seem to get over the hump of beating them in numbers. My rating is twice as high as theirs, but they have nearly five times the reviews as I do - and my app is in SIX LANGUAGES! I guess marketing isn't my forte.... Plus, for some reason, theirs wants access to your photo, music, and video libraries.... Not sure why? It's a stripped down basic app. I'm guessing their devs didn't know that they should have removed those things from the appmanifest.xml file, which is where that comes from.

Anyway, it all comes down to one question... "How can I best make money, in an ethical manner?"
 

mpelti

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You're right, but I don't get the knock. If I search for any sport, I can find at least 2 or 3 decent apps to give me scores, team info, league info, etc. Who cares who designs and codes the app? If the same functionality is there, its there.

Some people want the official app, not just some third party dev's screen scraper.

Again, you're right, but you've named a total of 14 different ways to watch sh*t on your phones. I know people in New York and Boston think the world revolves around them, but not everyone lives in a city where nobody drives and sits on commuter trains watching their phones all day long. I rarely, RARELY, ever see people in public watching TV or movies on their phones. And can you not watch some of these things through their web app equivalents? I'm genuinely curious because, again, I watch TV, yknow, at home. On my TV.

And people who aren't from a major metropolitan area don't understand just how many people do commute on transit, and do use their phones in that way. Public transit carries about 10% of the US population every day(35 million linked trips a day), and that percentage is far higher in Europe and Asia. Yes, the bulk of those trips are in major northern cities like New York, Chicago, Philly, Boston, and DC, but those are also people who are buying smartphones at a high rate.

But that's only one use case. Over the holidays, there were frequently times when both TVs at my moms house were taken, so i'd just go to the bedroom and watch some netflix. My sister inlaw had a lot more options, watching hbo go and abc shows on her ipad.

I also see people watching streaming video pretty frequently in the breakroom at work.

Ok. If you're like most people, you fly like once a year. So I can't get my official Hawaiian airlines app the one time I go to Hawaii. Great.
Yeah, I don't fly that often. But some people do, I have friends who fly every couple weeks. Unless they fly Delta or American Airlines, they have no options. And those apps are very useful for keeping track of bag tags and gates.

Again, my point isn't that there ISN'T an app gap, because there IS, its just not as bad as all the reviews make it out to be. A handful of missing apps does not mean there's a HUGE HOLE in the WP marketplace. Its like saying there's a huge GAME GAP on Playstation because it doesn't have Halo or Gears of War. Its just....untrue.

It's improving, but its a small problem, and overblown, like the "tank" jokes about the 920. Its uh, not that heavy, and not that much bigger than every other phone, but the weight and size issue is everywhere, because tech journalists who do nothing but review phones all day have to come up with SOMETHING to b*tch about in their blog posts.

It is a substantial hole in the marketplace. Video games are different, because the vast majority of apps are on both PS3 and Xbox, and also because only money prevents you from having both, whereas carrying a second device to make up for the lack of apps is an inconvenience (trust me, I've been keeping my android phone in my bag and using it almost daily). Underestimating the apps issue is not something MS can afford to do. It's a testament to how good windows phone is that it's the biggest issue.
 

tyler198

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I am a WP, and I love it. But I will say that if you don't count duplicate apps, or apps that are made by second parties, there is still an app gap in the WP Store. At the same time, I know that the store will now grow to the standards and beyond of iOS and Android.

With WP 8, Microsoft flat out said that 40 something of the top 50 apps on iOS and Android are now in the store and that's great.

Also, with Windows 8 sharing the same kernel and coding as WP 8, developers that make a Win8 app will have a better chance of making a WP 8 just because there is little effort.

So will the app gap shrink? Absolutely. It will just take some time, and I will guess a year-a year and a half before the WP Store has the same number of Quality apps that iOS and Android do.
 

Reflexx

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I'm not - they can charge for their apps, or put ads in their apps, but I think the "freemium" app only exists to trick people (kids) into unknowingly spending actual money.

Why does Gameloft, for example, have to charge $0.99 for Asphalt 7, and then have TONS of in app purchases for, yknow, nitro boost and different car colors and stuff? They're GAMELOFT, presumably very profitable, and they could charge $2.99 or whatever for the app instead and just give you the entire game. They're trying to intentionally trick people who play the games (again, mostly kids) into giving them more money than they'd get just by charging a fair price for the app in the first place.

And, the freemium model wasn't a problem before, but now way too many apps in iOS are using it, including non games. Its infuriating. [/COLOR]

Most devs aren't trying to "trick" people. It's just another way to monetize a game.

They create a game that they hope people will like and feel a connection to. Then if people like it, they will pay money for things "in game."

It's not much different than XBOX Avatar clothing.

If you don't like it, don't play it.
 

mpelti

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Most devs aren't trying to "trick" people. It's just another way to monetize a game.

It depends. In-game purchases should always be clear that you are spending money, and distinguish between free and paid features. If there's no "are you sure" for a paid upgrade, it sure feels like a trap.
 

Reflexx

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It depends. In-game purchases should always be clear that you are spending money, and distinguish between free and paid features. If there's no "are you sure" for a paid upgrade, it sure feels like a trap.

I agree with that.

But let's not make blanket statements about all devs who create freemium games.

Some are bad and some are good, just like any business. You'll find bad and good games in regular paid games also, where some unethical devs might try to make a game sound much more robust and awesome than it really is.
 

hopmedic

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I agree with that.

But let's not make blanket statements about all devs who create freemium games.

Some are bad and some are good, just like any business. You'll find bad and good games in regular paid games also, where some unethical devs might try to make a game sound much more robust and awesome than it really is.

Agreed. And I'll be the first to admit that my most downloaded app is, in my opinion, pretty lame, but I was learning at the time (still am, really), and if I had time now to rewrite it, I would, and it would be a lot better.
 

Covfam

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the app gap is there regardless of how ****** you can get it. i LOVE my 822 phone but, i DONT like alot of the apps, calling the only weakness niche apps is misleading, no HBO2GO ,NO MLB.tv,no HULU PLUS,no Cbs app, no ABC app, no BBC iplayer app, no kobo reader app, no sony reader app, no nook app and kindle app thats on wp8 is basicly a placeholder missing most of the features on ios and android, it cannot make notes, highlite or share passages, no dictionary features, and unable to lock rotations. it missing most all of the basic ereader app functions. no pintrest app, and the highest rated pintrest clone doesnt even let you look at YOUR content it just lets you look at the big generic pintrest feed and you can pin pictures thats it. these arent niche apps that are missing or crippled these are Majors, both the CNN foxnews and ESPN apps while good are missing alot of features of the ios and android counterparts. its a common theme of alot of the official apps over here they are quite stripped down. and you cant expect everyon to try out the 5-10 different 3rd party clones and hope they fill the role for everything. im keeping my great lumia 822 phone i love everything about it except the ecosystem. for the apps im getting an ipod touch 5 to give me quality apps untill the majors make a real presence on windows phone 8 that arent basicly placeholders.
 

othercents

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I want to use Spotify on my WP8.

Even though I listen to music all the time, I removed all the streaming radio stuff from my phone. I can see how this would be nice, but I think I prefer Pandora Radio. Is there another option to just listening to music? I feel as though we have invented ways to use the data bandwidth on our phones to do the same tasks we did before with FM/AM radios or CDs or MP3s. Is music that much different if you stream it over the internet vs playing it from the device? If everyone tuned into the FM radio station isn't that the same social listening as Spotify? Maybe I'm just crazy for not using the phone that way.

Splashtop is another example.

Oh that's a nice app. I will have to download it to my Tablet, but I don't think I would ever use it on a phone. I wonder how frustrating that would be if I was trying to use it on the phone? That would be practical for me on a Windows RT device.

I'm not trying to knock anyone's app choices, but I think we overuse our phones which is why I moved from my iPhone over to the WP7. I streamlined down to just the social applications I always used, the banking applications, and travel applications. Even the social applications are not used, just the integrated stuff that comes with WP7. Phone calls, email, calendar, banking, travel, and social media.... What more do we need a phone for anymore if you have a tablet that you always carry around?

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