04-06-2013 12:43 PM
106 1234 ...
tools
  1. a5cent's Avatar
    ^ What about your second 8X? Signal problems gone?
    03-22-2013 01:02 AM
  2. casab1anca's Avatar
    Incorrect. No way MSFT only coded wp8 to use an S4 processor. They would not be that shortsighted.
    No, they are not shortsighted. The code itself is very likely to be portable across platforms, however the build is usually highly optimized for a specific processor, which means the resulting binary cannot be shared across different processors without recompiling the code. Android, on the other hand, has to forgo these optimizations so that it can run on a variety of processors.
    03-22-2013 02:23 AM
  3. AngryNil's Avatar
    The Tegra 3 is a POS, I was horrified that Microsoft chose it as the Surface RT chipset. Guess why it lags?
    03-22-2013 02:51 AM
  4. Angry_Mushroom's Avatar
    Rumor has it the second gen RT tablet will run on a Qualcomm chipset. No clue beyond that. The Tegra 3 does seem to have under performed, and it looks like no one feels threatened by the Tegra 4.

    Otherwise the Qualcomm S4 is a damn fine chipset. It runs in quite a large amount of phones. The Samsung Galaxy SIII is one such phone. Apparently the dual core held its own against the quad core Exynos.
    03-22-2013 03:05 AM
  5. EdSherriff's Avatar
    @OP
    IMHO this destroyed WP8's chance of ever pulling ahead of the pack in mobile gaming, because all WP8 games will now be restricted to running on whatever a 225 can handle at 1280x868... in other words, gaming on WP8 will never be more than 'me too' efforts. That could and should have been different.
    I can't see how you can make any solid judgement on how games are going to perform on WP8, there simply aren't enough examples that truly push the platform to the limit. There are many advantages WP8 has over Android in terms of API and optimisation that make it a more attractive platform for developers (market share aside).

    Regarding resolution maybe I'm getting old, but in my opinion most of the best games ever made had a native resolution of 576i (or below if you live in NTSC land). This obsession with HD resolution on sub 5 inch screens is just getting stupid as is summing up the performance of any component using a single metric; cameras in megapixels, processors in GHz or audio amplifiers in Watts. If you want to know why WP8 is a currently a "me too" gaming platform for high budget mobile titles, read Paul's articles on "How Microsoft can save Xbox gaming", they list the real factors that affect developers decisions as cited by the developers themselves, I don't remember seeing Microsoft's GPU choice in there.
    03-22-2013 04:42 AM
  6. jrdatrackstar1223's Avatar
    I can't see how you can make any solid judgement on how games are going to perform on WP8, there simply aren't enough examples that truly push the platform to the limit. There are many advantages WP8 has over Android in terms of API and optimisation that make it a more attractive platform for developers (market share aside).

    Regarding resolution maybe I'm getting old, but in my opinion most of the best games ever made had a native resolution of 576i (or below if you live in NTSC land). This obsession with HD resolution on sub 5 inch screens is just getting stupid as is summing up the performance of any component using a single metric; cameras in megapixels, processors in GHz or audio amplifiers in Watts. If you want to know why WP8 is a currently a "me too" gaming platform for high budget mobile titles, read Paul's articles on "How Microsoft can save Xbox gaming", they list the real factors that affect developers decisions as cited by the developers themselves, I don't remember seeing Microsoft's GPU choice in there.
    You're referring to developer reasoning for not choosing windows phone to target from a business perspective, not the physical limitations of the hardware itself. Its no secret that the Adreno 225 is weak compared to the competition. The Galaxy S4 is coming, the iPhone 5 had it beat before the device even released, and the Adreno 225 can only beat devices of yesterday. This is what was meant by the platform never being able to reach a higher status in the gaming department because you simply can't overcome hardware limitations, no matter how much love/hate you have for the platform.

    You say developers never mentioned the GPU being a concern; of course they wouldn't say that because then that would apply to Android devices that use this GPU (Galaxy S III, HTC One X, and other "high-end" devices with high marketshare). That's why high-end games run like crap on Android because developers simply do crap ports from iOS, with no regard to optimization for hardware and recognizing the physical limitations of the device (which is what we are seeing right now with the games that have been ported from Gameloft)....
    Last edited by jrdatrackstar1223; 03-22-2013 at 10:33 AM.
    a5cent and rimlover like this.
    03-22-2013 10:22 AM
  7. uselessrobot's Avatar
    You're referring to developer reasoning for not choosing windows phone to target from a business perspective, not the physical limitations of the hardware itself. Its no secret that the Adreno 225 is weak compared to the competition. The S4 is coming, the iPhone had it beat before it even released, and the Adreno can only beat devices of yesterday. This is what was meant by the platform never being able to reach a higher status in the gaming department because you simply can't hurdle hardware limitations, no matter how much love/hate you have for the platform...
    The Adreno 225 is on par with the vast majority of phones on the market. Of course there are always going to be absolute top tier, and it was inevitable that the Galaxy S4 would be at the top of the heap. And in this case it accomplished it by incorporating a variant of the GPU from the iPhone 5. And that's where the iPhone/iPad have always excelled. They're outliers in that they've always had powerful GPUs which insured better longevity. While people knocking them for what seemed to be weak CPUs they were overlooking the more critical component. The most taxing thing you can throw at your phone is gaming, and that's where that GPU matters more than anything else.

    However, when you get down to it, the biggest factor in performance amongst all these phones is optimization. Gameloft games run like crap, not because the hardware can't handle it, but because their developers either suck or can't be bothered to optimize. The same games enjoy better performance on Android phones with identical hardware, so obviously that can't be the limiting factor. We're at the end of the development chain. That means those companies are outsourcing to the cheapest bidder, quality be damned.
    rimlover likes this.
    03-22-2013 10:46 AM
  8. Robert Carpenter's Avatar
    Can everyone take a second to understand this? It will help answer any doubts you have about the future of Windows Phone. :)

    Windows Phone 8 is not limited to the Snapdragon S4 in any way.
    Windows Phone 8 resembles Windows 8.
    They use driver files in the same format and same way.
    Windows Phone 8 has specific driver files for the Snapdragon S4.
    These driver files can be replaced by appropriate driver files for a different processor for a phone with different hardware.
    This is already the case with multiple other hardware components such as the different camera drivers for the Lumia 920 and the HTC 8X.
    All of these drivers are in the same folder and ANY of them can be added/replaced/removed for hardware.

    Now put yourself in a company's position when developing a phone. You can develop new drivers for a processor that hasn't been used yet, or you can reuse the same exact drivers that have already been created for the Snapdragon S4.

    It's not that it's impossible to use another processor. It's because no one is willing to invest the resources and extra months of development to produce the driver files for a different processor.

    What I'm not sure about is if Qualcomm developed the drivers for Windows Phone and sells them along with the chipset or if Microsoft develops these drivers. The manufacturers, like Nokia, could also be responsible and simply license the drivers to the others who want to save time.

    The entire Windows ecosystem wasn't developed for only the consumers to have as little compromise as possible. They have spent an enormous amount of time planning every move so that there is as little compromise as possible for the manufacturers and developers too. It's pure technical beauty when you understand the entire picture.

    But what about other limitations that are not driver/hardware related?

    Any other limitations that exist in the operating system can be modified with updates. They don't have the full feature set like the competitors yet. But they have the best base-level code implementation out of any of the competitors. Which means down the road others like Android and iOS will hit walls and limitations that cannot be bypassed without some sort of disruption (like breaking app compatibility or having to start with an entirely new operating system) and there is nothing they can do about it. But Windows Phone will not hit walls and limits like these until years and years after. This is when Windows Phone will pull away from the competition. This is 100% accurate information. The code inside of the operating system does not lie.

    Thank you for your time ;)
    a5cent and rimlover like this.
    03-22-2013 11:47 AM
  9. a5cent's Avatar
    It's pure technical beauty when you understand the entire picture.
    I can tell you are a like minded developer! Completely agree again. That technical beauty is exactly what drew me into the WP platform, although I think that beauty extends to many of WP's related policies and strategies as well. All of this combines to form a perfectly coordinated system of technology, processes and rules that has remained surprisingly pure. I wish this was apparent to everyone. Even amongst developers the ability to see that deep into the system and appreciate it is rare!

    What I'm not sure about is if Qualcomm developed the drivers for Windows Phone and sells them along with the chipset or if Microsoft develops these drivers. The manufacturers, like Nokia, could also be responsible and simply license the drivers to the others who want to save time.
    Qualcomm develops the drivers for Android. For WP the drivers are a joint effort. From what I gather (I have contacts in Redmond), Qualcomm completes a few select tasks and offers guidance, but it is Microsoft that does most of the work.
    Robert Carpenter likes this.
    03-22-2013 03:53 PM
  10. Robert Carpenter's Avatar
    I can tell you are a like minded developer! Completely agree again. That technical beauty is exactly what drew me into the WP platform, although I think that beauty extends to many of WP's related policies and strategies as well. All of this combines to form a perfectly coordinated system of technology, processes and rules that has remained surprisingly pure. I wish this was apparent to everyone. Even amongst developers the ability to see that deep into the system and appreciate it is rare!



    Qualcomm develops the drivers for Android. For WP the drivers are a joint effort. From what I gather (I have contacts in Redmond), Qualcomm completes a few select tasks and offers guidance, but it is Microsoft that does most of the work.
    Awesome information. I was reading about the exclusive partnership between Qualcomm and Microsoft so after I saw that I figured this might be the case.

    From reading your other posts around here, I knew we had the same mindset. To be honest, I haven't found anyone else besides you who shares it. I guess that's just how it is when you see and understand the pieces of the puzzle that the average consumer can't. ;)

    It's funny too, because being able to see deep into the system has really given me the ability to predict each move they make. My latest being: http://forums.windowscentral.com/win...n-forever.html
    I'd be interested to hear your thoughts :)
    03-22-2013 04:44 PM
  11. foxbat121's Avatar
    Windows Phone 8 is not limited to the Snapdragon S4 in any way.
    Sure it is not limited to Snapdragon S4 but currently it is the ONLY SoC that is supported. OEMs can't use other processors until Microsoft says so and have driver ready. Same goes for screen resolutions. The Windows Phone 8 SDK already have resolutions like 1080p or even higher listed but currently OEMs can only make phones as high as 768p or 720p. They can not release 1080p WP8 phones until MS says so.

    Windows Phone 8 resembles Windows 8.
    They use driver files in the same format and same way.
    Yes and no. The more I dig into WP8 SDK, the more I got disappointed. Only less than half of the Windows 8 APIs are supported in WP8 and many fasinating features of Windows 8 (like global search and sharing features) simply do not exist on WP8. Code written to Win8 can't be directly used on WP8 because of these differences. Obviously, the change is coming based on recent leak of a job posting. But I'm not sure it is for WP8, WP8.5 or WP9.

    When it comes to phone hardware design, MS is imposing very strict restrictions to ensure the uniformaty of WP platform. Yes, the new platform can do a lot of things but it is not up to OEMs but rather MS has the say.
    a5cent likes this.
    03-22-2013 04:52 PM
  12. ChMar's Avatar
    Sure it is not limited to Snapdragon S4 but currently it is the ONLY SoC that is supported. OEMs can't use other processors until Microsoft says so and have driver ready. Same goes for screen resolutions. The Windows Phone 8 SDK already have resolutions like 1080p or even higher listed but currently OEMs can only make phones as high as 768p or 720p. They can not release 1080p WP8 phones until MS says so.
    I believe that the set of resolution will remain up to 720p for windows phone 8. It was already a big change to developers to port their apps from one resolution to support 3 resolution so I don't believe there will be any change until this year fall if it will be any change at all.

    I do believe that HTC announcement that they will make another windows 8 phone after GDR2 refers to this resolution issue. After they designed the HTC One I think all their flagship phones will sport the 1080p resolution and they wait for the os to support that resolution. It makes sense considering they get cheaper prices for components if they buy them in larger quantities and this must be an issue for them. So one can assume that in the future we will see 1080p and 2gb of ram support which requires changes in the sdk(memory capabilities in manifest and new screen layouts). I'm curious how this will be handled as this brings some fragmentation(512MB, 1GB, 2GB) to account for. And if in apps this is less of an issue it is for games because of assets resolution and performance.
    03-22-2013 05:06 PM
  13. a5cent's Avatar
    If you want to know why WP8 is a currently a "me too" gaming platform for high budget mobile titles, read Paul's articles on "How Microsoft can save Xbox gaming", they list the real factors that affect developers decisions as cited by the developers themselves, I don't remember seeing Microsoft's GPU choice in there.
    Agree. We actually agree on almost everything, except that one issue, which is whether or not calling the Adreno 225 insufficient is premature.

    I can't see how you can make any solid judgement on how games are going to perform on WP8, there simply aren't enough examples that truly push the platform to the limit.
    I take "sufficient" to mean that games on WP8 devices can run at equivalent quality settings, at identical resolutions, and at the same frame rates as on the competitions devices, preferably noticeably better on all three counts (because that would be a great way to grab more market share).

    First take a look at this GPU benchmark, comparing the MSM8960 (as in the L920 but tested on the SGS3) to the A6 (from the iP5). Notice that the iP5's GPU is often twice as fast in every relevant metric (ignore the onscreen tests, as the iP5 will always perform better in those tests due to having a lower resolution display).

    You can rightfully argue that WP8 isn't burdened with many of Androids inefficient software stacks, but consider that games tend to bypass most of those inefficiencies. OpenGL provides Android developers a very direct (and exceedingly well optimized) route to their GPU, just as DirectX does for WP developers. I don't doubt that a L920 could better the SGS3 in this benchmark, but I don't see it getting anywhere close to the results spit out by the iP5. IMHO that difference is just to big to overcome with software engineering alone. This is disappointing, because both devices hit the market at roughly the same time.

    I wouldn't argue my position in an academic paper, because as you say until you actually measure it nobody can really know, but still... that difference must be almost impossible to overcome, no?

    BTW: really liking this thread... high quality discussion!
    Robert Carpenter likes this.
    03-22-2013 05:24 PM
  14. aaa6112's Avatar
    From personal experience, I can tell you that the difference between Adreno 225 and the upcoming Adreno 320/330 is night and day. Adreno 3xx is the first "post-AMD-mobile-graphics-division-acquisition" GPU and it is a beast! Adreno 305 is a watered down version in the Adreno 3xx series, so that doesn't count.
    Edit: Not saying that Adreno 225 is incapable of handling graphics in the current games, but just excited for the next wave of flagship WP8 devices :)
    03-22-2013 06:06 PM
  15. foxbat121's Avatar
    1080p screen will no doubt require 2GB or RAM because of the added demand from the screen. But I suspect Microsoft won't allow higher than current 720p/768p resolution because the GPUs in current SoC can barely keep up with 720p. But for most apps (other than games), supporting of new resolutions are not that hard and in most cases, you don't even need to change your code much. Today, 768p screen maps exactly as 480p screen with 720p screen maps a little bit taller. 1080p screens will map exactly as 720p screen.

    For games, most decent Android games are written in native C++, not Java, and using OpenGL. On WP8 side, decent games will be the same, written in native C++ and use Direct3D (but current WP9 is limited to Direct3D 9 level, not the newer Direct3D 11 as Windows 8 supports). So in many cases, Android games should perform similar to WP8 games if they optimized to each platform. So the real differentiate factor is the GPU power. Until Samsung Exynos 5's new GPU, most Android phone's GPU are so so and comparable to WP (they basically use the same SoC). It will be interesting to see if Microsoft will brace for the new GPU. But again, currently, that is only available from Samsung and it won't support LTE properly (so all US versions of Samsung GS4 will be Qualcomm SoC, not Exynos 5). So, until Qualcomm comes out with a equivalent GPU, we will still be short on GPU power.
    03-22-2013 06:12 PM
  16. ChMar's Avatar
    1080p screen will no doubt require 2GB or RAM because of the added demand from the screen. But I suspect Microsoft won't allow higher than current 720p/768p resolution because the GPUs in current SoC can barely keep up with 720p. But for most apps (other than games), supporting of new resolutions are not that hard and in most cases, you don't even need to change your code much. Today, 768p screen maps exactly as 480p screen with 720p screen maps a little bit taller. 1080p screens will map exactly as 720p screen.

    For games, most decent Android games are written in native C++, not Java, and using OpenGL. On WP8 side, decent games will be the same, written in native C++ and use Direct3D (but current WP9 is limited to Direct3D 9 level, not the newer Direct3D 11 as Windows 8 supports). So in many cases, Android games should perform similar to WP8 games if they optimized to each platform. So the real differentiate factor is the GPU power. Until Samsung Exynos 5's new GPU, most Android phone's GPU are so so and comparable to WP (they basically use the same SoC). It will be interesting to see if Microsoft will brace for the new GPU. But again, currently, that is only available from Samsung and it won't support LTE properly (so all US versions of Samsung GS4 will be Qualcomm SoC, not Exynos 5). So, until Qualcomm comes out with a equivalent GPU, we will still be short on GPU power.
    1080p won't match to 720p. The multiplication factor is 1.5 not an integer value. So you will notice distortion meaning you will need to support that resolution manually not because any layout problems but because of image degradation due to up scaling. So new sdk new apps and of course the 2gb of ram.

    Yes it's true GPU on wp8 is dx 9.3 feature maxed. It may someday change who knows. But having the ability to have the same codebase for wp8 and windows 8 means the games now will support some form of graphics graceful degradation to accommodate less powerful hardware just like you would code for windows 8 devices. And to be honest I don't believe GPU is the bottleneck in current mobile games.

    Most games are casual games and android being so fragmented those will remain the main category of games so no problem with the GPU here. And 3d games in current gen use a lot of offline light map generated textures and are less real-time concerning lighting effects so it's not about gpu power but about gpu fill rate. And I believe this is a good call considering the screen sizes of the display and the lack of good controls. I don't see graphic hungry fps games becoming popular on mobile phones. So you remain with 3rd person graphics rich games that with good level design you can make due with a less powerful GPU(make it so that you have a lower visibility range so less objects less GPU calls).
    03-22-2013 06:44 PM
  17. Robert Carpenter's Avatar
    Sure it is not limited to Snapdragon S4 but currently it is the ONLY SoC that is supported. OEMs can't use other processors until Microsoft says so and have driver ready. Same goes for screen resolutions. The Windows Phone 8 SDK already have resolutions like 1080p or even higher listed but currently OEMs can only make phones as high as 768p or 720p. They can not release 1080p WP8 phones until MS says so.



    Yes and no. The more I dig into WP8 SDK, the more I got disappointed. Only less than half of the Windows 8 APIs are supported in WP8 and many fasinating features of Windows 8 (like global search and sharing features) simply do not exist on WP8. Code written to Win8 can't be directly used on WP8 because of these differences. Obviously, the change is coming based on recent leak of a job posting. But I'm not sure it is for WP8, WP8.5 or WP9.

    When it comes to phone hardware design, MS is imposing very strict restrictions to ensure the uniformaty of WP platform. Yes, the new platform can do a lot of things but it is not up to OEMs but rather MS has the say.
    That was a great analysis. However, I happen to be referring to code that is much more important than the SDK code. It's not easy for most people to read and understand because of how long it takes to understand such a little fragment of it haha.

    And you pretty much nailed that closing statement. MS has the control, and that's exactly how it should be. The OEMs do need control of their own, but the hardware is made for the software and not the other way around. Microsoft is the only one who knows how things have to be on both the software side AND hardware side for everything to work correctly. Android's weakness was giving OEM's too much control. And Apple's weakness is simply being less experienced than Microsoft at what both companies do. They create computing experiences. :)
    a5cent likes this.
    03-22-2013 06:44 PM
  18. ChMar's Avatar
    That was a great analysis. However, I happen to be referring to code that is much more important than the SDK code. It's not easy for most people to read and understand because of how long it takes to understand such a little fragment of it haha.

    And you pretty much nailed that closing statement. MS has the control, and that's exactly how it should be. The OEMs do need control of their own, but the hardware is made for the software and not the other way around. Microsoft is the only one who knows how things have to be on both the software side AND hardware side for everything to work correctly. Android's weakness was giving OEM's too much control. And Apple's weakness is simply being less experienced than Microsoft at what both companies do. They create computing experiences. :)
    SO True :). But for the average consumer that spec war going in the android arena makes the hardware driving without software needs which in turn leads to less software innovations especially in productivity apps area.
    03-22-2013 06:49 PM
  19. foxbat121's Avatar
    1080p won't match to 720p. The multiplication factor is 1.5 not an integer value. So you will notice distortion meaning you will need to support that resolution manually not because any layout problems but because of image degradation due to up scaling. So new sdk new apps and of course the 2gb of ram.
    .
    800x480 (480p) is the base. With zoom factor of 1.6, it nicely transforms to 1280x768, or 768p. Both have the same aspect ratio. Nothing will be stretched. Existing apps don't need to be redesigned because it is a simple zoom.

    MS chose to use zoom factor of 1.5 for 1280x720 or 720p resolution, Since it has a different aspect radio than the base 480p and 768p, MS don't use stretch but leave 720p screen display taller with extra space vertically. Apps need to be properly designed to fill the extra space.


    1080p or 1920x1080 will have the same aspect ratio as 1280x720. So the final zoom factor will be 1.5x1.5 = 2.25, with extra vertical space. So, an app written for 720p screen (remember it is different than 768p screen) can easily zoom into 1080p without distortion. But apps written only for 480p will have the same extra space vertically.

    These scalings are done at hardware level. Apps are designed to draw into a logical coordinate system, not directly to screen anyway. It already happens today on 768p and 720p screens.
    03-22-2013 06:58 PM
  20. a5cent's Avatar
    These scalings are done at hardware level. Apps are designed to draw into a logical coordinate system, not directly to screen anyway. It already happens today on 768p and 720p screens.
    Scaling is actually done by the OS in software, not hardware. WP handsets do come with a hardware scalar, but this is used only in DirectX enabled apps, not when going through the conventional UI composition and rendering stacks. Not terribly important, but just wanted to through it out there.

    I'm also going to make a prediction... when the WP hardware chassis spec is evolved to incorporate a new display resolution, the spec will simultaneously drop support for two others. This chassis spec will support 1280x720p and 1920x1080 resolutions but drop support for 800x480 and 1280x768.
    03-22-2013 07:46 PM
  21. foxbat121's Avatar
    I wouldn't say that. 800x480 support is very vital for Nokia's survival. Nokia is always known to making money in mass produce cheap low end phones in emerging markets. And from what they are doing recently, they are betting on low end WP8 phones, not high end ones. Besides, currently there is a lot apps don't even support 1280x720 properly.

    I'm not so sure the scaling is only done at OS software level. The desktop OS already done this in hardware. Giving WP8 OS core comes from Win8, I can't imagine why they don't use hardware capabilities.
    rimlover likes this.
    03-22-2013 08:02 PM
  22. ChMar's Avatar
    800x480 (480p) is the base. With zoom factor of 1.6, it nicely transforms to 1280x768, or 768p. Both have the same aspect ratio. Nothing will be stretched. Existing apps don't need to be redesigned because it is a simple zoom.

    MS chose to use zoom factor of 1.5 for 1280x720 or 720p resolution, Since it has a different aspect radio than the base 480p and 768p, MS don't use stretch but leave 720p screen display taller with extra space vertically. Apps need to be properly designed to fill the extra space.


    1080p or 1920x1080 will have the same aspect ratio as 1280x720. So the final zoom factor will be 1.5x1.5 = 2.25, with extra vertical space. So, an app written for 720p screen (remember it is different than 768p screen) can easily zoom into 1080p without distortion. But apps written only for 480p will have the same extra space vertically.

    These scalings are done at hardware level. Apps are designed to draw into a logical coordinate system, not directly to screen anyway. It already happens today on 768p and 720p screens.
    You are correct about the scaling. And as I stated previously I'm not talking about layout scale which is only a problem in 720p because of extra height. I'm talking about picture rescale and for some apps that is a problem. I had to change some apps because of banding in some logo who used gradients(not my apps) and who didn't scale right and the noise added to them was not coping with the banding anymore. You will get noise in images whether you upscale or downscale them no matter what so you need support for a new resolution in the SDK.

    As for scaling the layout coordinates scaling must be done by os and not hardware, images being rendered using directx anyway in both windows 8 and windows phone 8.

    I'm happy that Microsoft chooses a 1 year os upgrade route. Many of the windows phone apps are not made in house and are outsourced and having to do work for them too frequently is costly for all parties involved.
    a5cent and rimlover like this.
    03-22-2013 08:21 PM
  23. rimlover's Avatar
    I will chime in to say that the Adreno 225 GPU in the S4 is crap. It's way behind the curve, and for "next-gen" Windows Phone 8 devices to release using it disappoints me because they're "highly regarded" because they're cheap (compared to the other SOCs).

    When I say Adreno 225 is crap, I'm speaking to the fact that we have basically received a chipset that is already outdated (by mobile standards of today)...
    i said the same thing in the crackberry forum as i was thinking of getting a z10 haha. ya i completely agree with you there.
    03-22-2013 08:22 PM
  24. rimlover's Avatar
    I can only disagree to the statement that it is a big mistake to only allow one SOC. With this given, WP8 only has to be coded for one processor, the same that we can also see on apple devices - software designed for hardware, resulting in higher speeds. In contrast, android is pretty slow for its Killer hardware - it's always fun to see a Galaxy S2 lag when an old 3GS has no problems at all (dualcore 1.2Ghz vs 600Mhz Singlecore). imo, this step was very important, since the performance in combination to the hardware on windows phone is really high.
    why is it a mistake if it's 1 SOC? as you said, this is a similar to what apple is doing which is a good thing. developers (including microsoft) have only 1 SOC to code for so they can make apps that are extremely efficient for that specific hardware platform, where as the opposite is seen in android. android developers not only have to figure out the brand of the SOC (tegra, exynos, mediated etc), but the specific models as well? that's WAY to much variation hence why most apps aren't written as efficiently. the lack of efficiency is what leads android to require these INSANE numbers of RAM, cores, speeds, etc (if an app is written efficiently, you don't need a 2 ghz quad core A-15 with 2 gb ram to run it). the only thing i would agree with that's on android is the GPU (which is starting to catch up to the iphone). they're coming out with tri-core gpu setups (like gs4 with the MP544+3 similar to iphone 5) and extra which is always a need for games.
    03-22-2013 08:37 PM
  25. a5cent's Avatar
    I wouldn't say that. 800x480 support is very vital for Nokia's survival. Nokia is always known to making money in mass produce cheap low end phones in emerging markets. And from what they are doing recently, they are betting on low end WP8 phones, not high end ones. Besides, currently there is a lot apps don't even support 1280x720 properly.

    I'm not so sure the scaling is only done at OS software level. The desktop OS already done this in hardware. Giving WP8 OS core comes from Win8, I can't imagine why they don't use hardware capabilities.
    Well, I suspect that WP8(Blue+) and WP9 devices will coexist for a while, just like WP7 and WP8 devices do today. That is why I don't believe that such a move would prevent Nokia from offering cheap devices. Nokia can continue to sell cheaper WP8 devices with 800x480 panels. Also, there will come a time when 1280x720 panels don't cost more than 800x480 panels do today, and that time isn't too far off.

    In regard to the sub-optimal support for 1280x720 resolutions, yes, those are all WP7 apps, made by developers who don't have the time to support two different versions of the same app, or don't want to make that investment only for the sake of getting rid of those black bars. However, we are talking about a point in time that is yet a ways off. By then, it is unlikely we will have many actively developed WP7 apps left in the market. Any app that gets a real WP8 port will support that resolution just fine.
    rimlover likes this.
    03-22-2013 08:46 PM
106 1234 ...

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-26-2011, 12:50 PM
  2. Does anyone see the changes Verizon is making, like i do???
    By Bballbenb in forum Other Operating Systems
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 09-26-2011, 12:30 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-24-2011, 10:06 AM
  4. The roaming icon is always there
    By jefim in forum Windows Central Archive
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-29-2011, 10:43 AM
  5. The word "hub" is stupid
    By patricksmangan in forum General Phone Discussion
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 04-05-2011, 09:49 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD