What's up with the 1 GB RAM requirement ?

[astraith]

Nokia Lumia 820 Specifications - Nokia

The Lumia 820 has 1GB of RAM. What's the problem?

 

[Sanjay Chandra]

Nokia Lumia 820 Specifications - Nokia

The Lumia 820 has 1GB of RAM. What's the problem?

This thread is more about "WP8" platform in general.(wp8 as a whole not about 820)

Why would simple apps need 1 gb ram is the main issue discussed.

Read what "travisel " wrote above.Looks real somewhat.

Looks like people who currently have 820s 920s and 8X's , Ativ's are in situation what travisel is describing.

 

[rbxtreme]

Do you really think that a normal consumer understands these reasons ? Only thing they care about is "Works or not"

we have been having this discussion for quite,some time now so was helping you out figuring out about what's happens from the OS side and why they have these ram restrictions from the devs. We have already gone through why no this, why no that , so was taking the discussion to the next level.

 

[Dratwister]

This thread is more about "WP8" platform in general.(wp8 as a whole not about 820)

Why would simple apps need 1 gb ram is the main issue discussed.

Read what "travisel " wrote above.Looks real somewhat.

Looks like people who currently have 820s 920s and 8X's , Ativ's are in situation what travisel is describing.

Because its developers are too lazy to optimize it? OR they just want to release it ASAP then optimize it later? For god's sake. Why you guys keep blaming Microsoft for other developers' laziness? Cause that's the most nonsense thing I've ever read :| Not to mention the post that compare windows phone store with appstore...

You wonder why a simple app needs 1GB of RAM? Why don't you just go ahead and put your question to its developer? Don't they know it best?

Oh, and yes! Did you ever try to install and play some games like angry birds on a low end Android phone (even some mid-end ones)? Cause I did, and the game is just unplayable. YES, it can be installed, it can run to menu, it can process to game, but after then is laggy, freezing and buggy... So what's the point?

 

[rbxtreme]

I read this thread and these days how interesting the thread is depends on the number of teas I drink while reading it. 3 for this one.

While there are people who have clearly moved on to other platforms and aren't happy with the way Windows Phone has evolved and they have super major contributions in this thread, I don't think most of them are valid.

Why isn't anyone looking at it from this perspective : You got a phone with low spec i.e 512 RAM right? You paid less money than the guy who paid for Lumia 920 right? You did not buy a flagship device, right? Now don't give me an example of iPhone because there is always ONE iPhone per OS iteration. For Windows Phone 8 OS, there are plenty of phones. Low ends, mid range, flagships. This is same with Androids right? If you pay for low end phone, don't expect high end performance or apps, simple. I wouldn't. I don't know why would you. If apps don't work on high end Lumia 920 e.g. Tentacles or Viber HD - I would be totally pissed and I am about those apps.

Let's compare low end WP with low end Androids and let's talk about the performances. Back in the day, Windows Phone ads (those who don't own WP anymore, you will know what I'm talking about) that showed how smooth and non-laggy the device is compared to others were everywhere. The point was - WP doesn't lag, WP is consistent. Pick up a low end WP and pick up a low end Android both with latest and greatest OS updates on them. WP will not lag, it won't **** out, it won't force close. However in Android it will. Now what use is that TuneIn radio or Temple Run or whatever you lot are on about, if it will make my phone laggy? If I wanted that, I would surely buy an Android anyway. WP came out with providing a fresher and better user experience. It's focused on user experience. It wasn't focused on apps even at the beginning. Everything was about integration (remember old days, veterans?)

I understand the point that some apps just don't need 1GB RAM e.g. TuneIn and they shouldn't demand that - but probably they've done their home work and it might be OK on Android to run in the choppy environment, by MS standards if it doesn't feel optimized with 512 MB RAM. That when 1GB RAM version is released and then after further development, optimization 512 one is released. There were few games recently that released in this fashion right?

I think most of the people on WP who have used it since 2010 or in 2011, would vote for stability, speed and fluidity of the OS anyday over the most popular app in other marketplaces. However, those switching from other OS always want those apps because to them even a laggy app doesn't feel any different than what they had on their previous phone. I don't know. My tea is finished, I need to make a brew now.

You just hit it right on!!! Way to go.

 

[KingCrimson]

Because its developers are too lazy to optimize it? OR they just want to release it ASAP then optimize it later? For god's sake. Why you guys keep blaming Microsoft for other developers' laziness? Cause that's the most nonsense thing I've ever read :| Not to mention the post that compare windows phone store with appstore...

You wonder why a simple app needs 1GB of RAM? Why don't you just go ahead and put your question to its developer? Don't they know it best?

Oh, and yes! Did you ever try to install and play some games like angry birds on a low end Android phone (even some mid-end ones)? Cause I did, and the game is just unplayable. YES, it can be installed, it can run to menu, it can process to game, but after then is laggy, freezing and buggy... So what's the point?

iOS devs for iOS original apps go out of there way to optimize, bug fix and add features. The same as for WP original apps as well. Take Amazing Weather, look how far it's come.

 

[travisel]

Here one for you....do you believe Windows "Blue" WP9 update for WP8 memory base will be?

- 512MB
or
- 1GB

I believe "Blue" update for WP8 will need 1GB RAM! Would this **** off people with 512MB Ram WP8? So the only update's 512MB WP8 users get is GDR1/GDR2/GDR3 and no Blue?

Sounds like WP7 256MB Ram all over again? WP8 512MB Ram users in the same boat as last generation.

New WP9 "Blue" using new next generation Snapdragon 800 series MSM8974 with Adreno 330 and 2GB Ram will make my 1GB ATIV S WP8 Low end user!! I know this and you know this? Life span of Smartphone hardware now days is 6 months! Every year it's doubling!

Software is so far behind new hardware people are starting to see no support for older hardware.

Good news is WP9 hardware Snapdragon 800 series will be faster than Galaxy S4 Snapdragon 600 series used in north America.

If your a developer now days with choice of RAM for your APPS what would you use?

- 256MB WP7

- 512MB WP7.5/WP7.8/WP8

- 1GB WP8/WP9

- 2GB WP9

Where do you stand?

 

[Sanjay Chandra]

Here one for you....do you believe Windows "Blue" WP9 update for WP8 memory base will be?

- 512MB
or
- 1GB

I believe "Blue" update for WP8 will need 1GB RAM! Would this **** off people with 512MB Ram WP8? So the only update's 512MB WP8 users get is GDR1/GDR2/GDR3 and no Blue?

Sounds like WP7 256MB Ram all over again? WP8 512MB Ram users in the same boat as last generation.

New WP9 "Blue" using new next generation Snapdragon 800 series MSM8974 with Adreno 330 and 2GB Ram will make my 1GB ATIV S WP8 Low end user!! I know this and you know this? Life span of Smartphone hardware now days is 6 months! Every year it's doubling!

Software is so far behind new hardware people are starting to see no support for older hardware.

Good news is WP9 hardware Snapdragon 800 series will be faster than Galaxy S4 Snapdragon 600 series used in north America.

If your a developer now days with choice of RAM of your APPS what would you use?

- 256MB WP7

- 512MB WP7.5/WP7.8/WP8

- 1GB WP8/WP9

- 2GB WP9

?

After seeing events one by one , I don't see where WP platform is headed.

Sure , It is an innovative platform but I don't see WP going head to head against Android/iOS anytime soon in apps , it will take another year or two to catch up.WP got basic stuff right and MS nailed it.(only things needed are notification center for apps which are not pinned to start and option to lock orientation)

They must fix tablets as well.

1 GB Devices will have better future for sure.

But 512 mb devices WON'T GET ALL features of next update but they get partial update [that's what i think will happen)

Yeah when 2 gb ram devices come , 1 gb ram devices get screwed if devs release un-optimized apps like they release today.

 

[rbxtreme]

It wouldn't be wise to compare WP to Android/ios coz they both have come a long way. Now I'm in no position to predict the future of MS as a good smartphone OS provider. But whatever little things MS offers today with Nokia(that's me) ... I'm enjoying every bit of it. Probably I'm not a demanding customer coz at the end of the day its just a phone, however smart they make it never will outsmart "US" .

 

[Dratwister]

iOS devs for iOS original apps go out of there way to optimize, bug fix and add features. The same as for WP original apps as well. Take Amazing Weather, look how far it's come.

And your point is?

 

[travisel]

I don't know why Microsoft used 512MB RAM as the base spec for WP8? Should of been 1GB from the start! 512MB was last generation Windows Phone 7 spec. RAM is cheep now and no reason to have such low RAM applications on next generation Windows Phone 8! "my opinion" We wouldn't have this problem now if Microsoft gave every one with WP8 platform 1GB of RAM from the start! "my opinion"

We will see if Microsoft is following Apple OS to RAM?

- iPhone 4S (iOS 5.xx) 512MB RAM
- iPhone 5 (iOS 6.xx) 1GB RAM
- iPhone 5S (iOS 7.xx) 2GB RAM
Then move to 64-bit too have more than 3GB!
- iPhone 6 (iOS 8.xx) 4GB RAM
"iPhone 64"?


Windows Phone
- WP7 256MB & 512MB Ram
- WP8 512MB & 1GB Ram
- WP9 1GB & 2GB Ram
Then move to 64-bit?
- WP10 4GB Ram

RAM table....Till the 64-bit Smartphone comes RAM should be optimized on 32-bit hardware known limited 3GB Ram and the last platform's on 32-bit ARMv7 using 2GB RAM as high-end and 1GB as low-end and the future 64-bit 4GB RAM! ARMv8 or Intel 64.

I don't see no future for 512MB RAM?

 

[ChMar]

It's a pointless discussion. There are no "smart" apps on any platforms. The successful one don't even use the phone at it's full capacity they grab data from internet or allow you to post data to internet. No apps needs that amount of memory because they mostly are displaying a web site with a different interface. Games may be a little more demanding but consider the quality of AAA games on current gens consoles that only have 512mb on them. It's about the quality of the apps and as in any job it's easier and more cost productive, to be lazy and not make your app shine but be there fast and with as much effort as possible. When a streaming app will need 300 mb to play some music then something is totally wrong in this world. When a simple app that displays twitter or facebook data will need that much ram to work world will go to ****.

A typical app in memory(made on fast mode and not optimized at all) consumes ~24mb for it's layout and graphics. Consider now the lack of real work that apps do and I guess any app can use 50MB and call it a day. With no optimizations. When you get lazy and not looking for good and practical solutions and treat the smartphone as a computer where you can be more permissive in how you consume resources you make awful apps.

Now only if people would use the review sections for apps not to ask features that were not advertise and demanding those features and conditioning them for a change in review(never happens) would rate the app considering it's quality(crashes, memory and bandwidth consumption, real power consumption not by the ear) and then design and review the apps to verify that it matched the advertisement all should change for the better

 

[pinoyrepn1124]

I don't understand why you are so angry at MS. Did MS developed and published those games? No they did not. The developers choose to support only 1gb devices. Blame them. Contact those developers and complain that you want to buy their game and so they should make a 512mb ram version. Then they will spend the time and make it for 512mb devices. Blame MS for the apps they make not for apps made by others.

As for the platform moving fast. What does that means? I'm a company I'm making a game. I choose to support wp8. I then hire some wp8 programmers or retrain my programmers to work on wp8 devices. This takes between 1 month to 2 month. This process of course starts in November when they have the sdk and phones the phones at their disposal. There comes December with winter holidays. Actual work begins in January. It takes 2-3 month to make a good game so what do you expect? How fast is fast in your dictionary? Software products as other products need time to be made and tested. Seams so few now remember the android launch and it's problems and lack of apps in the begging and it's slow speed.

Very good points. Oftentimes people think that the final products we get in the market all are made in a matter of days but in reality any app or product has to be put through quality control and revised many times over. I would want this with any product or app because in the end the results show how much time is put in. Some apps that aren't as rigoulously tested oftentimes are lackluster and buggy. Not to say that there are perfect apps out there without any bugs but if you can have one that has minimal caveats then the better for the consumer satisfaction. Which in turn can lead to product loyalty.

 

[Paarthurnax]

it's easier and more cost productive, to be lazy and not make your app shine but be there fast and with as much effort as possible. When a streaming app will need 300 mb to play some music then something is totally wrong in this world.

I work as a software developer (not for mobile devices however) and I can say that you have the wisdom of the falcon. It basically boils down to this.

But to be honest, I have no clue where you got those absolute numbers from.

 

[ChMar]

I work as a software developer (not for mobile devices however) and I can say that you have the wisdom of the falcon. It basically boils down to this.

But to be honest, I have no clue where you got those absolute numbers from.

Test with the SDK on emulator. You get memory consumption and estimated battery drainage(this is just a hint and subjective as **** but it's a number you can work with). Also search for ms videos on channel9 (I don't recall if they were from last year build conference or not) and they do have some footage about optimizations and they start with a normal app measure it's usage and optimize from there.

 

[Paarthurnax]

That's good to know, thank you.

 

[krishna6233]

On 512 MB devices Apps can use up to 150 MB of Memory. If they exceed that threshold the App will be killed by the OS. On 1 GB devices it's up to 350 MB. This does not mean that the OS is taking up all the rest but there is reserved space for Background Tasks like a Navigation App running in the Background or Skype waiting for incoming calls.

Certain Apps can't run with only 150 MB of usable Memory - especially games, so developers set a flag in the App so it can't be installed on low Memory devices.

The Memory is reserved. The reason is that the System should work predictably - both for users and for Apps. If I have a Navigation Software running in the Background it Needs a guarantee that it will have enough Memory available. I can't just stop Navigation because the Facebook App is loading a big Image. Or if I receive a Skype call I want to talk to someone but perhaps would not want my currently active App to just be closed down because it takes too much Memory. So: no, the Memory is not unused. If Apps don't use their allotted share it is also used to Keep several Apps available for fast switching (e.g. Twitter is still in Memory but asleep).

That actually is an improvement over WP7 where an App was regularly only allowed to use 90 MB of Memory. This was not enforced by the OS so you could go above it if there was enough space available. The Problem was that at some Point it would run out of Memory and then would be killed. That would sometimes happen at 90 MB, sometimes at 150 MB. So a developer could test his App on his device without background Music, etc. and see it crashing all the time on people's devices. This Situation can no longer occur.

The Basic Problem is that Smartphone OS's don't use virtual Memory like on a PC. There if you run out of physical Memory Little used data is swapped out to the hard drive (which slows the System considerably). This normally isn't done on Smartphones because it is taxing on the Flash Memory. 256 MB WP7 devices still implemented it to allow them to even run 90 MB big Apps and Background process were completely deactivated on those devices. WP8 also Needs more Memory for the OS itself than WP7 did.

good explanation ..but for the common man who bought a new 512mb device ,it is not enough!​

 

[nessinhaw]

we are doomed the day apps like FB needs more than 1-2Gb to run lol
btw they can't get it right with their Android app! full of bad reviews complaining about bugs (notifications arriving 1 day later, force closes, pics not loading), just check Google Play...they always screw up something when they update XD

 

[James8561]

Why isn't anyone looking at it from this perspective : You got a phone with low spec i.e 512 RAM right? You paid less money than the guy who paid for Lumia 920 right? You did not buy a flagship device, right? Now don't give me an example of iPhone because there is always ONE iPhone per OS iteration. For Windows Phone 8 OS, there are plenty of phones. Low ends, mid range, flagships. This is same with Androids right? If you pay for low end phone, don't expect high end performance or apps, simple. I wouldn't. I don't know why would you. If apps don't work on high end Lumia 920 e.g. Tentacles or Viber HD - I would be totally pissed and I am about those apps.

Highly agree with this point. I mean, people who buy $400 craptop don't expect their computer to power through the lastest games or edit 200 photos and render AVCHD videos compared to a high-end $2000 custom rig. So why should people who buy $350 phones expect the same kind of performance as $750 phones?

 

[Jay_wpcentral]

I am in agreement with rockstarz and James on this one.

I have 820 & 510. Most games don't come to 510 and I am not pissed with it. It's a low budget phone and it can only do a few things. That is simply how things are. I don't and shouldn't expect it to run Asphalt 7