04-06-2013 06:00 AM
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  1. ChMar's Avatar
    Microsoft approves these apps don't they? It's simple. Don't approve apps that have these pointless limitations that make them unusable on the majority of Windows Phones.
    No it's not simple. You are not the new messiah or Hitler nor Microsoft is. As an intellectual product approaching the status of art no one can judge the limitations I impose no matter how unusable those may be for some user of windows phones. No one has the right to impose me by force to support additional devices by going over my budget when my solution works for what models I clearly specify. No one dares raises voice that Nokia has exclusives right? Isn't that making those apps unusable(those apps are in the store and approved by MS). No one voices that I may refuse to make my app available in various country as it is my choice not MS what my audience is to be. No one should voice here either. And especially against Microsoft. No one can judge my budget artistic vision or the path I choose. I'm not allowed by MS to provide clearly buggy software or software that does not respect the society approve conducts(racism, rape, pornography, etc) or pose a security risk or lie about permissions. I'm not allowed to cut features because this means that people who paid me now will use a newer crippled version(unless stated in plain in the EULA license by the dev).

    There are no artistic or scientifically measurable ways to decide what is pointless. My wimp, artistic vision, budget are my problems and are not to be judge by Microsoft. The only one who can judge me and my apps are those that buy it and find it lacking.
    rockstarzzz likes this.
    03-31-2013 11:06 AM
  2. ChMar's Avatar
    How about 7.8 Live tile issues and MS halted update temporarily ?
    Give me list of iPhone 5 exclusive apps please.
    Give me atleast 3-4
    After this weekend I'll borrow a coworker iphone and give examples.
    rockstarzzz likes this.
    03-31-2013 11:10 AM
  3. Sanjay Chandra's Avatar
    After this weekend I'll borrow a coworker iphone and give examples.
    Good luck , I haven't found a single app so far.
    03-31-2013 11:13 AM
  4. rockstarzzz's Avatar
    After this weekend I'll borrow a coworker iphone and give examples.
    Don't try that bait. You won't find any because iPhone 5 as we all know with its extra row of icons and bigger screen wasn't a significant update at heart and hence not much different on the inside than iPhone 4 or 4S. So whatever can run on iPhone 5 will run on 4 and 4S. Shame, they had slow adaptation of apps for bigger screen though.
    03-31-2013 11:18 AM
  5. ChMar's Avatar
    Don't try that bait. You won't find any because iPhone 5 as we all know with its extra row of icons and bigger screen wasn't a significant update at heart and hence not much different on the inside than iPhone 4 or 4S. So whatever can run on iPhone 5 will run on 4 and 4S. Shame, they had slow adaptation of apps for bigger screen though.
    I will look. I remembered that one of my coworkers wasn't able to put an app on his iphone 4. If I won't find I will still tell him that.
    03-31-2013 11:25 AM
  6. rockstarzzz's Avatar
    Off-topic/baits cleaned up - stay focused chaps.
    stmav and Sanjay Chandra like this.
    03-31-2013 12:44 PM
  7. rbxtreme's Avatar
    Off-topic/baits cleaned up - stay focused chaps.
    Roger that
    03-31-2013 12:49 PM
  8. Daniel Sundersingh's Avatar
    I think that the developers are not taking Windows Phone seriously and they publish their apps just bcoz of the request by Windows Phone...
    03-31-2013 01:34 PM
  9. rbxtreme's Avatar
    No one builds apps,for the sake of it. Money * Time = great apps. You reduce either of the one, and you see difference..
    03-31-2013 01:56 PM
  10. travisel's Avatar
    No one builds apps,for the sake of it. Money * Time = great apps. You reduce either of the one, and you see difference..
    So your saying because it costs more to make Apps on Windows Phone then on Apple & Android we get bad quality apps?
    03-31-2013 02:45 PM
  11. rbxtreme's Avatar
    So your saying because it costs more to make Apps on Windows Phone then on Apple & Android we get bad quality apps?
    I think you still missed the other variable on my simple equation which is "time".WP,a new OS, devs getting their hands on the SDK , going up the learning curve, so once they get there the equation will make sense.
    03-31-2013 02:49 PM
  12. nessinhaw's Avatar
    come on, WP8 is still new, it's just gonna be 6 months old...Android and iOS took 5 years to gather 700.000+ apps...what makes you all think WP8 should be born with as many apps? It's still new and like lots of pplz already said, it needs time to mature!
    03-31-2013 03:19 PM
  13. WasteSomeTime's Avatar
    Is the app fluent regardless of the requirements? If so who cares. The OS is still fluent.
    Sent from my SGH-i677 using Board Express
    03-31-2013 03:45 PM
  14. eric12341's Avatar
    Removed more off topic posts, please stay on topic and civil or the thread will be closed.

    Now for tune in I do believe the 1GB requirement was a bit of an oversight and it will be fixed in the next update. Almost all apps currently on the marketplace do support 512mb of RAM, for the ones that don't are games that have HD graphics that the 512mb devices may struggle with. Those who purchase a 512mb device just want something they can browse the web and use Facebook and also watch the occasional YouTube video, all of which are handled perfectly on those devices.
    rockstarzzz and travisel like this.
    03-31-2013 05:26 PM
  15. Feel_IT's Avatar
    Removed more off topic posts, please stay on topic and civil or the thread will be closed.

    Now for tune in I do believe the 1GB requirement was a bit of an oversight and it will be fixed in the next update. Almost all apps currently on the marketplace do support 512mb of RAM, for the ones that don't are games that have HD graphics that the 512mb devices may struggle with. Those who purchase a 512mb device just want something they can browse the web and use Facebook and also watch the occasional YouTube video, all of which are handled perfectly on those devices.
    look man i knew that some games wont work on my 8s but come on if temple run 2 works perfectly fine on android phone with 512mb of ram then i expect that it will work on my phone as well..let alone temple run 1..i wont be mad if some crazy 80mb HD game wont work on it but temple run 1??
    03-31-2013 06:55 PM
  16. eric12341's Avatar
    look man i knew that some games wont work on my 8s but come on if temple run 2 works perfectly fine on android phone with 512mb of ram then i expect that it will work on my phone as well..let alone temple run 1..i wont be mad if some crazy 80mb HD game wont work on it but temple run 1??
    I doubt that it runs well on a 512mb android phone, if it does then some major sacrifices had to be made to the experience. They probably will make it 512mb compliant in the next update when they fix the light background bug as well.
    03-31-2013 07:46 PM
  17. StreetNerd's Avatar
    Mangareader needs 1gb ram... on WP8 but i can run it on my Lumia 800 which has 512MB ram only
    03-31-2013 08:06 PM
  18. rockstarzzz's Avatar
    Mangareader needs 1gb ram... on WP8 but i can run it on my Lumia 800 which has 512MB ram only
    Totally different OS
    03-31-2013 09:14 PM
  19. AngryNil's Avatar
    No one has the right to impose me by force to support additional devices by going over my budget when my solution works for what models I clearly specify.
    Wrong. Microsoft's store, Microsoft's rules. Welcome to the world of walled gardens. They can do whatever they want, and you'll have to take your lovely idealism to the open plains.

    You won't find any because iPhone 5 as we all know with its extra row of icons and bigger screen wasn't a significant update at heart and hence not much different on the inside than iPhone 4 or 4S.
    Do you realise the iPhone 4 was released in 2010? It predates every single retail Windows Phone 7 device, has 512MB RAM, and a chipset worse than the Snapdragon S2 (Mango devices).

    Totally different OS
    If this is your response, you're saying that we should add performance to the list of flaws in the WP7 → WP8 transition.

    I doubt that it runs well on a 512mb android phone, if it does then some major sacrifices had to be made to the experience.
    RAM is not the bottleneck that anyone would expect a game like TR to hit.
    Mahdi Ghiasi likes this.
    04-01-2013 08:14 AM
  20. Mirtas's Avatar
    Microsoft could set minimum hardware requirement that state that mid-range phones should have 1GB and high-end phones should have 2GB of ram. Or they could disapprove apps that require 1GB of ram.

    The manufactures are also to blame. For example take the Lumia 720, which is going to be for sale within the next few weeks. They could have released the phone with 1GB ram and it would not be a significant cost increase.

    Smartphones with 1GB or ram have been on the market for over 2 years and 2 years is a long time in smartphone world.

    Soon developers will start developing games that need a minimum of 1GB ram and a 1280x720 resolution.

    The fault is a combination of Microsoft, phone manufacturers and Developers and not just one of them.
    04-01-2013 09:13 AM
  21. Sanjay Chandra's Avatar
    Microsoft could set minimum hardware requirement that state that mid-range phones should have 1GB and high-end phones should have 2GB of ram. Or they could disapprove apps that require 1GB of ram.

    The manufactures are also to blame. For example take the Lumia 720, which is going to be for sale within the next few weeks. They could have released the phone with 1GB ram and it would not be a significant cost increase.

    Smartphones with 1GB or ram have been on the market for over 2 years and 2 years is a long time in smartphone world.

    Soon developers will start developing games that need a minimum of 1GB ram and a 1280x720 resolution.

    The fault is a combination of Microsoft, phone manufacturers and Developers and not just one of them.
    In , SoCs RAM is integrated unlike PCs where RAM can be replaced in slots.

    Amount of RAM significantly rises lot of cost of an SoC , that's why even for Apple Line-up , iPhones and iPads have 1 GB RAM because they cost more while iPad Mini and iPod Touch have 512 MB RAM to cut down costs.

    Not only that, RAM also effects stand-by time and battery drain during Multitasking (more RAM = more apps in background = more battery drain for same amount of time) which means OEM must also increase the battery capacity if they increase RAM.That's why higher end devices with more RAM always have more capacity batteries.
    Daniel Ratcliffe and travisel like this.
    04-01-2013 09:24 AM
  22. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    In , SoCs RAM is integrated unlike PCs where RAM can be replaced in slots.

    Amount of RAM significantly rises lot of cost of an SoC , that's why even for Apple Line-up , iPhones and iPads have 1 GB RAM because they cost more while iPad Mini and iPod Touch have 512 MB RAM to cut down costs.

    Not only that, RAM also effects stand-by time and battery drain during Multitasking (more RAM = more apps in background = more battery drain for same amount of time) which means OEM must also increase the battery capacity if they increase RAM.That's why higher end devices with more RAM always have more capacity batteries.
    Never realised the price hike was so steep for RAM increases and that it was built into the SoC. The more background processes thing makes sense though. And as such the effect on battery. Good insightful post, cheers! I feel smarter for reading that.
    04-01-2013 09:51 AM
  23. Mirtas's Avatar
    In , SoCs RAM is integrated unlike PCs where RAM can be replaced in slots.

    Amount of RAM significantly rises lot of cost of an SoC , that's why even for Apple Line-up , iPhones and iPads have 1 GB RAM because they cost more while iPad Mini and iPod Touch have 512 MB RAM to cut down costs.

    Not only that, RAM also effects stand-by time and battery drain during Multitasking (more RAM = more apps in background = more battery drain for same amount of time) which means OEM must also increase the battery capacity if they increase RAM.That's why higher end devices with more RAM always have more capacity batteries.
    Thank you for your informative post. Yet there are many mid-range Android phones (that cost less than the 720) and have more than 512mb of ram. I do not know the costs differences in Soc, but it should not be that significant as these phones are cheaper than WP with similar hardware. The older MSM8225 supports 768mb ram, yet the newer MSM8227 supports 512mb ram. Surely WP hardware manufacturers can choose better hardware, as WP need to gain market share by offering something better than the current market. In terms of basic hardware like CPU/GPU/RAM they are not thing this.

    The battery drain argument is actually also being used to support more ram. More RAM = more apps in the background = less stress on CPU to load apps = better battery time. Unfortunately I cannot find any research to support any of the 2 arguments.

    In my opinion Windows Phones are lacking behind in hardware and the consequences are that mid-range phones cannot play the latest games. Which goes against the whole idea that WP runs better on slower/older/less hardware.
    Feel_IT and travisel like this.
    04-01-2013 10:02 AM
  24. Angry_Mushroom's Avatar
    Wrong. Microsoft's store, Microsoft's rules. Welcome to the world of walled gardens. They can do whatever they want, and you'll have to take your lovely idealism to the open plains.

    If this is your response, you're saying that we should add performance to the list of flaws in the WP7 → WP8 transition.
    To be totally fair. It appears that Google Play and the Apps store for Apple is just as walled a garden as the MS store. That or google has been lying out of its poo chute about reviewing the apps that show up in its store.

    Then there's the issue of increasing RAM size. While I sincerely doubt it raises the costs that much, I think the product lineup is a major consideration in hardware specs. Granted my perception might be skewed. (How much of a price increase for half a gig? 50 dollars?) I don't think Nokia wants the 720 and onwards to be too close to the 820. Nokia seems to be balancing their product lineup on a razor thin edge. So increasing their lower end's specs would likely put it too close to the midrange Nokia devices.
    rbxtreme likes this.
    04-01-2013 12:32 PM
  25. ChMar's Avatar
    Thank you for your informative post. Yet there are many mid-range Android phones (that cost less than the 720) and have more than 512mb of ram. I do not know the costs differences in Soc, but it should not be that significant as these phones are cheaper than WP with similar hardware. The older MSM8225 supports 768mb ram, yet the newer MSM8227 supports 512mb ram. Surely WP hardware manufacturers can choose better hardware, as WP need to gain market share by offering something better than the current market. In terms of basic hardware like CPU/GPU/RAM they are not thing this.
    I once was working on a pc version of a multi-platform game. The size of the game was 720 mb and needed a DVD as it's media. The publisher agreed to pay 1 more week of development and to sacrifice some texture and model quality just so it could ship the game on CD media(saving $0.1 per installation media). They didn't even remade the casing or manual to state the difference. Apparently that 1 cent difference per unit was more worth it for them. I expect it adds up in volumes. So I believe this is the case here too. OEMs are willing to same just a tiny fraction of the cost per device by providing less RAM or a bit lower camera. Offering better hw when it is not needed is not what apple or OEMs using wp are willing to do. Those specs war works for geeks not for casual consumer.

    To be totally fair. It appears that Google Play and the Apps store for Apple is just as walled a garden as the MS store. That or google has been lying out of its poo chute about reviewing the apps that show up in its store.

    Then there's the issue of increasing RAM size. While I sincerely doubt it raises the costs that much, I think the product lineup is a major consideration in hardware specs. Granted my perception might be skewed. (How much of a price increase for half a gig? 50 dollars?) I don't think Nokia wants the 720 and onwards to be too close to the 820. Nokia seems to be balancing their product lineup on a razor thin edge. So increasing their lower end's specs would likely put it too close to the midrange Nokia devices.
    Increase in production cost per device means decrease in profits. And this is per unit sold so for a corporation is something truly important.

    Wrong. Microsoft's store, Microsoft's rules. Welcome to the world of walled gardens. They can do whatever they want, and you'll have to take your lovely idealism to the open plains.

    Do you realise the iPhone 4 was released in 2010? It predates every single retail Windows Phone 7 device, has 512MB RAM, and a chipset worse than the Snapdragon S2 (Mango devices).

    If this is your response, you're saying that we should add performance to the list of flaws in the WP7 → WP8 transition.

    RAM is not the bottleneck that anyone would expect a game like TR to hit.
    Performance optimization has nothing to do with OS. It's about time and budget allocated for the project. Yes the os is 6 month old. And this mean nothing at all. In those 6 month how many apps have the developers pushed? Just 1(I'm not talking about flip the coin or ifart type of apps). So those devs that work(as in full-time job) have the experience of shipping 1 app. Their ability to predict costs or to optimize their overall experience on working with the platform is very limited. Then there is the problem with devices. For a company making apps they now have a large range of devices at their disposal to do testing and optimizations. For wp8 they most probably just have 1 type of device(flagship devices like 8x or lumia 920). You could test using deviceanywhere or a nokia solution for testing using remote desktop techniques. But this costs and is not as easy or useful as testing with your own device.

    I believe that when the project manager assessed the time and budget needed for it's project it made some miscalculations. So they were all force to ship without being able to test on lower devices. And fear to launch on all spectrum of devices(in android this proves to be somewhat scary) without testing made them more willing to ship for only flagship devices.

    Add to this that TR for example uses a fermium model. For it to bring profit people must buy coins buy in-app purchase. It's more likely that someone who had money for a flagship to be more willing to spend money for in-app purchases. Graphs shows that in emerging country mid-range is selling. So you could expect less ROI from people having mid or low end type of hardware.

    So I don't see any reason to be scared about fragmentation in the long run
    rbxtreme likes this.
    04-01-2013 02:44 PM
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