04-06-2013 06:00 AM
200 ... 45678
tools
  1. rbxtreme's Avatar
    To be totally fair. It appears that Google Play and the Apps store for Apple is just as walled a garden as the MS store. That or google has been lying out of its poo chute about reviewing the apps that show up in its store.

    Then there's the issue of increasing RAM size. While I sincerely doubt it raises the costs that much, I think the product lineup is a major consideration in hardware specs. Granted my perception might be skewed. (How much of a price increase for half a gig? 50 dollars?) I don't think Nokia wants the 720 and onwards to be too close to the 820. Nokia seems to be balancing their product lineup on a razor thin edge. So increasing their lower end's specs would likely put it too close to the midrange Nokia devices.
    that makes sense on part if Nokia, coz they just don't want to hurt the 920/820 which are placed higher. Think of it like this, people opting for a budget phone stop at a store and the sales guy tells them , this is the 720, 620 and the 520 . He also realizes that why would I pay the difference for half a gig, or a few megapixels, so Nokia makes it easier for him to choose from the 3. Now someone planning on getting a 920 would know that the phone would outperform the budget ones coz there's a premium involved. A majority of people who picked up a windows phone was because they found the OS refreshing and smooth. As an end customer I can't be too bothered about Nokia using this SOC instead of that. All that matters to me is the phone never dies out on me and does what I paid it to do.
    04-01-2013 02:52 PM
  2. Angry_Mushroom's Avatar
    As an end customer I can't be too bothered about Nokia using this SOC instead of that. All that matters to me is the phone never dies out on me and does what I paid it to do.
    Amen to that. In the end that is what matters the most. The OS and the user contentment.
    04-01-2013 07:03 PM
  3. Dave_97865's Avatar
    If you decided to board the windows phone band wagon, be loyal to it.
    I will be as loyal to M.S. as M.S. is to me which is ZERO, NADA, or even negative if that were possible. M.S. doesn't care if I live or go bankrupt or get kicked into the gutter.

    I use MS phone because it is the best, and the moment it is the not the best, I will stop using it. Microsoft is doing things right, they aren't whining about the competition, they are looking straight ahead and doing their jobs as they need to be done, for the most part, running business the way business should be run. I respect them but if they fail they're on their own, if they can't make it, with a total of 2 whole competitors in the market.
    OzRob likes this.
    04-01-2013 08:26 PM
  4. OzRob's Avatar
    I will be as loyal to M.S. as M.S. is to me which is ZERO, NADA, or even negative if that were possible. M.S. doesn't care if I live or go bankrupt or get kicked into the gutter.
    Well said. Microsoft never asked me whether I wanted it to get rid of ActiveSync in the core Win 8 metro opps during the last round of updates, thereby rendering my calendar useless even though Google hasn't yet switched off ActiveSync at its end.

    Microsoft is a very large corporation and will do whatever Microsoft feels is in Microsoft's interests. If those interests align with mine, then that's great for me. If they don't, then so be it. The trouble with brand loyalty is it's only ever a one way street.
    04-01-2013 10:36 PM
  5. rbxtreme's Avatar
    I will be as loyal to M.S. as M.S. is to me which is ZERO, NADA, or even negative if that were possible. M.S. doesn't care if I live or go bankrupt or get kicked into the gutter.

    I use MS phone because it is the best, and the moment it is the not the best, I will stop using it. Microsoft is doing things right, they aren't whining about the competition, they are looking straight ahead and doing their jobs as they need to be done, for the most part, running business the way business should be run. I respect them but if they fail they're on their own, if they can't make it, with a total of 2 whole competitors in the market.
    GOOGLE/APPLE all the same
    04-01-2013 10:57 PM
  6. spaulagain's Avatar
    Well said. Microsoft never asked me whether I wanted it to get rid of ActiveSync in the core Win 8 metro opps during the last round of updates, thereby rendering my calendar useless even though Google hasn't yet switched off ActiveSync at its end.

    Microsoft is a very large corporation and will do whatever Microsoft feels is in Microsoft's interests. If those interests align with mine, then that's great for me. If they don't, then so be it. The trouble with brand loyalty is it's only ever a one way street.
    Yes they have. Google turned it off in January for any "new" set ups. I imagine that the update to the mail and calendar app required the account to be "reset" and therefore losing the Google Calendar sync as it was seen as a "new" set up to Google. That was the case with Windows Phone too.

    This is all Google's fault for being pricks and dropping support so suddenly. MS is working on new integration, but that takes time.

    Unless your work uses Google Calendar, why not switch your calendar to outlook?

    I don't trust Google services, I've dropped everything of theirs except YouTube and Google Analytics.
    travisel likes this.
    04-01-2013 11:07 PM
  7. Narse77's Avatar
    +1 on the moving to outlook. It works fantastic for me.
    Sent from my Nokia Lumia 920 using Board Express
    04-01-2013 11:26 PM
  8. travisel's Avatar
    Thank you for your informative post. Yet there are many mid-range Android phones (that cost less than the 720) and have more than 512mb of ram. I do not know the costs differences in Soc, but it should not be that significant as these phones are cheaper than WP with similar hardware. The older MSM8225 supports 768mb ram, yet the newer MSM8227 supports 512mb ram. Surely WP hardware manufacturers can choose better hardware, as WP need to gain market share by offering something better than the current market. In terms of basic hardware like CPU/GPU/RAM they are not thing this.

    The battery drain argument is actually also being used to support more ram. More RAM = more apps in the background = less stress on CPU to load apps = better battery time. Unfortunately I cannot find any research to support any of the 2 arguments.

    In my opinion Windows Phones are lacking behind in hardware and the consequences are that mid-range phones cannot play the latest games. Which goes against the whole idea that WP runs better on slower/older/less hardware.
    I believe this fall with "Blue" WP9 new hardware specs! "Above Android Galaxy S4!"

    - Quad-Core Snapdragon 800 series (MSM8974) Adreno 330

    - 2GB RAM

    - 5" 1080p (441PPI) displays

    - 3000mAh battery

    - Nokia Lumia 940
    - Samsung ATIV S2

    1GB RAM (MSM8960) WP8 will become low-end Windows phone this fall. 😎
    04-01-2013 11:44 PM
  9. OzRob's Avatar
    Unless your work uses Google Calendar, why not switch your calendar to outlook?
    It's not me you have to convince of that. I do use Outlook, but my family uses a shared Google Calendar to organise our lives. Lets just say my family's interest in technology is on the low side, and you're a better man than I if you can persuade that lot to move to a different system. Not even the threat of Google invading my privacy would make me want to take on that task.
    04-02-2013 12:35 AM
  10. AngryNil's Avatar
    I believe this fall with "Blue" WP9 new hardware specs! "Above Android Galaxy S4!"
    I'd bet against Snapdragon 800 & 3000mAh batteries. Windows Phone manufacturers have always, for some unknown reason, used smallish batteries. It's nice that Windows Phone can last a day on significantly less juice than an Android device, but the manufacturers seem to just put in smaller batteries so it evens out in the end.

    Microsoft has (unfortunately) never chosen the top-of-the-line chipset for Windows Phone.
    • 2010: chose S1 over S2
    • 2011: chose S2 over S3
    • 2012: chose S4 over S4 Pro
    • 2013: will likely choose 600 over 800
    04-02-2013 01:01 AM
  11. OzRob's Avatar
    I imagine that the update to the mail and calendar app required the account to be "reset" and therefore losing the Google Calendar sync as it was seen as a "new" set up to Google. That was the case with Windows Phone too.

    This is all Google's fault for being pricks and dropping support so suddenly. MS is working on new integration, but that takes time.
    I think the situation with Windows 8 is different to WP8. See this article. It would seem Microsoft have deliberately curtailed calendar syncing, even though it's still turned on at Google's end. If MS is working on integration, why didn't it wait before pulling the plug. Seems like Google aren't the only pr!cks in the room!
    04-02-2013 01:02 AM
  12. ChMar's Avatar
    I'd bet against Snapdragon 800 & 3000mAh batteries. Windows Phone manufacturers have always, for some unknown reason, used smallish batteries. It's nice that Windows Phone can last a day on significantly less juice than an Android device, but the manufacturers seem to just put in smaller batteries so it evens out in the end.

    Microsoft has (unfortunately) never chosen the top-of-the-line chipset for Windows Phone.
    • 2010: chose S1 over S2
    • 2011: chose S2 over S3
    • 2012: chose S4 over S4 Pro
    • 2013: will likely choose 600 over 800
    It's not MS that does the choosing it's the OEMs. Since the os let's them run on lesser hw it's normal that the choose the cheapest solution. They would do the same on android landscape if lagging would not be a problem or if the market were not so oversaturated with Android devices that they need to go in to the specs race to differentiate and make the head lines.
    04-02-2013 01:08 AM
  13. ChMar's Avatar
    I think the situation with Windows 8 is different to WP8. See this article. It would seem Microsoft have deliberately curtailed calendar syncing, even though it's still turned on at Google's end. If MS is working on integration, why didn't it wait before pulling the plug. Seems like Google aren't the only pr!cks in the room!
    When Google says it will kill EAS then says it will kill CalDAV and then later that it will kill EAS but not now or it will kill calDAV but you can white list it makes sense to move forward and not accept to be blackmailed or to have everything shutoff on a wimp by google.
    04-02-2013 01:11 AM
  14. a5cent's Avatar
    It's not MS that does the choosing it's the OEMs.
    Actually, I know for a fact that this is not quite accurate. MS certifies the OS for each and every chipset it may run on. This group of chipsets is expanded over time, but never large. For WP8 their are currently three such chipsets. OEM's can choose any one of the certified chipsets, but nothing more.
    travisel likes this.
    04-02-2013 01:27 AM
  15. ChMar's Avatar
    Actually, I know for a fact that this is not quite accurate. MS certifies the OS for each and every chipset it may run on. This group of chipsets is expanded over time, but never large. For WP8 their are currently three such chipsets. OEM's can choose any one of the certified chipsets, but nothing more.
    Yes chipset must be certified. But this only means OEMs put up a request for a chipset to go through certifications. If OEMs truly wanted the best chipset they would have had it. Apple, MS, Blackberry are not running on the latest and greatest chipset because there is no such need for it. You can't stay on obsolete chipset of course but running on the latest and most powerful and expensive is not justifiable in all cases. Basically WP8 can run on any hw windows 8 can but for mobile purposes It will never make sense to make an i7 smartphone :). I can only imagine the blast I could have to run visual studio on it.
    04-02-2013 01:40 AM
  16. OzRob's Avatar
    When Google says it will kill EAS then says it will kill CalDAV and then later that it will kill EAS but not now or it will kill calDAV but you can white list it makes sense to move forward and not accept to be blackmailed or to have everything shutoff on a wimp by google.
    Ummm...you do know that calendar syncing was shut off a few days ago on a whim (or even a wimp) by Microsoft, don't you? And they didn't even tell anyone that updating the core apps would have this effect. Like I said, Google-Microsoft, Microsoft-Google - they are both as bad as each other at the moment.
    04-02-2013 01:42 AM
  17. ChMar's Avatar
    Ummm...you do know that calendar syncing was shut off a few days ago on a whim (or even a wimp) by Microsoft, don't you? And they didn't even tell anyone that updating the core apps would have this effect. Like I said, Google-Microsoft, Microsoft-Google - they are both as bad as each other at the moment.
    I will no accept to be silenced with a stick. An no one should so I can understand were MS comes from. You can of course use any google service you want from the browser. This was not started by MS. I didn't say that Google or Microsoft are not both corporations or that one is better than the other. It's just that I understand their position.
    04-02-2013 01:48 AM
  18. Mirtas's Avatar
    I believe this fall with "Blue" WP9 new hardware specs! "Above Android Galaxy S4!"

    - Quad-Core Snapdragon 800 series (MSM8974) Adreno 330
    - 2GB RAM
    - 5" 1080p (441PPI) displays
    - 3000mAh battery
    - Nokia Lumia 940
    - Samsung ATIV S2

    1GB RAM (MSM8960) WP8 will become low-end Windows phone this fall. ��
    I think that they are going to choose the Snapdragon 600, because the 800 is mostly for tablets. If LG can put a 2460 mAh battery in a 4.3 inch screen device (P710) that is smaller and a tiny bit thinner than the Lumia 820 (2460 mAh battery) surely we can expect the next Lumia 9x0 to have 2200+ mAh. But it is not always about mAh, iPhone 5 only has a 1440 mAh battery and does a great job with it.

    Based on the past, the problem is that Windows Phones devices are a few steps behind in hardware and power efficiency. By the time a 2GB Quad-Core Windows Phone hits the market (I expect November 2013) it will be falling behind again. Although it should not be about having the latest hardware, but giving the best performance on the hardware you have. This does not hold up when you can't play the latest games or in terms of marketing. The average consumer sees 8 cores as better than 2 cores, 2GB ram better than 1GB ram and 13MP camera better than 8MP.

    Windows Phone needs time and I am positive that within 18 months they will catch up and we will see 15% marketshare. And this will force developers to be more efficient with their programming and will also force manufactures to provide the best hardware. And there will be more competition within the WP world. Developers will compute for your money and there will be more manufactures. I am positive that once there is money to be made in the WP world, brands like LG and Sony will join.
    04-02-2013 02:11 AM
  19. a5cent's Avatar
    Microsoft has (unfortunately) never chosen the top-of-the-line chipset for Windows Phone.
    • 2010: chose S1 over S2
    • 2011: chose S2 over S3
    • 2012: chose S4 over S4 Pro
    • 2013: will likely choose 600 over 800
    Qualcom introduced the segmentation in S1, S2, S3 and S4 lines after the fact, and in a very arbitrary fashion. While your list isn't wrong, it doesn't really explain the situation:

    From 2010 to late 2012 (WP7):
    All devices were built using the exact same CPU. Clock rates and the GPU were the only differences between SoCs certified for WP7.

    Qualcom just decided to screw around with labels... if an S1 was clocked above 1GHz they called it an S2... nothing but marketing...

    Neither a "real" S2 nor an S3 ever made it onto a WP7 device.

    From late 2012 to now (WP8):
    All devices were built using the S4, Plus AND Pro versions. The MSM8960T in the Chinese L920 is an S4Pro! And again... clock rates and the GPU are the only differences between the SoCs certified for WP8.

    The point is, it was never about purposely choosing "only" the second most powerful SoC... for whatever reason. It was, and still is, about limiting hardware variability with the goal of limiting fragmentation.
    travisel likes this.
    04-02-2013 02:12 AM
  20. a5cent's Avatar
    Yes chipset must be certified. But this only means OEMs put up a request for a chipset to go through certifications.
    While I completely agree with all of your reasoning, AFAIK this first part is incorrect.

    MS employees have told me, more than once, that MS makes these evaluations on their own. I did not specifically ask them if OEMs can file requests, but I'm sure that would have been mentioned if that was part of the process.
    travisel likes this.
    04-02-2013 02:33 AM
  21. ChMar's Avatar
    Qualcom introduced the segmentation in S1, S2, S3 and S4 lines after the fact, and in a very arbitrary fashion. While your list isn't wrong, it doesn't really explain the situation:

    From 2010 to late 2012 (WP7):
    All devices were built using the exact same CPU. Clock rates and the GPU were the only differences between SoCs certified for WP7.

    Qualcom just decided to screw around with labels... if an S1 was clocked above 1GHz they called it an S2... nothing but marketing...

    Neither a "real" S2 nor an S3 ever made it onto a WP7 device.

    From late 2012 to now (WP8):
    All devices were built using the S4, Plus AND Pro versions. The MSM8960T in the Chinese L920 is an S4Pro! And again... clock rates and the GPU are the only differences between the SoCs certified for WP8.

    The point is, it was never about purposely choosing "only" the second most powerful SoC... for whatever reason. It was, and still is, about limiting hardware variability with the goal of limiting fragmentation.
    I don't believe that there will be much fragmentation if you allow for a greater range of chipsets. For apps this is not a problem and as for games when a game support both 512 and 1gb versions of the platform whatever chipset you throw in there will be supported
    04-02-2013 02:35 AM
  22. a5cent's Avatar
    I don't believe that there will be much fragmentation if you allow for a greater range of chipsets. For apps this is not a problem and as for games when a game support both 512 and 1gb versions of the platform whatever chipset you throw in there will be supported
    On this we will have to agree to disagree. A SoC is not just a pairing of a CPU with a GPU. An OS can hide the differences in hardware only to a point. When it comes to the utilization of media processors, DSPs and any of the other co-processors on a SoC, we are far past that point. Then differences become noticable. If not to the dev, then definitely to the consumer. That is fragmentation.
    travisel likes this.
    04-02-2013 02:52 AM
  23. ChMar's Avatar
    On this we will have to agree to disagree. A SoC is not just a pairing of a CPU with a GPU. An OS can hide the differences in hardware only to a point. When it comes to the utilization of media processors, DSPs and any of the other co-processors on a SoC, we are far past that point. Then differences become noticable. If not to the dev, then definitely to the consumer. That is fragmentation.
    You are right about the other components in the chipset. But for the differences to become noticeable something must be missing like Bluetooth for example. But that will not pass the certification point because of minimum feature requirements. I don't believe you would be able to notice a different DSP or media processor as end user. There is no specification for how big the resolution must be for a movie or the framerate for video shots. I see no case of fragmentation as user experience is concerned this meaning speed and fluidity for the os(considering the minimum features impose by MS). I don't know if there are encoding requirements from MS so I don't think it's a case of fragmentation here.
    04-02-2013 03:17 AM
  24. ammarmalik2011's Avatar
    After this weekend I'll borrow a coworker iphone and give examples.
    Weekend's over. Did you find any of these 'iPhone 5 exclusive' apps? Because being an owner of an iPhone 5 myself, and a iPhone 4S last year, I haven't found any such app.
    Sanjay Chandra likes this.
    04-02-2013 03:27 AM
  25. ChMar's Avatar
    Weekend's over. Did you find any of these 'iPhone 5 exclusive' apps? Because being an owner of an iPhone 5 myself, and a iPhone 4S last year, I haven't found any such app.
    :)))) Sure weekend is over. I didn't had time. But if you can't wait for me feel free to ask me anytime you wish. Rest assured I have not forgot
    04-02-2013 03:32 AM
200 ... 45678

Similar Threads

  1. So what's up with the limited theme colors
    By the real smackbo in forum Other Operating Systems
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 01-12-2015, 02:31 AM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-19-2013, 10:33 PM
  3. What's up with the email client?
    By Chris Parsons in forum Other Operating Systems
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-20-2012, 02:30 AM
  4. What's up with the secrecy???
    By TJWINS in forum Other Operating Systems
    Replies: 63
    Last Post: 09-28-2012, 10:33 AM
  5. What's up with the Weather Channel app?
    By JP724 in forum General Phone Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-01-2011, 12:06 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD