What's up with the 1 GB RAM requirement ?

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Dileu

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I have to admit I was surprised by this. I expected not to be able to play heavy 3D games on my lumia 620, it's a low end phone (for wp8h, but I didn't expect media apps to be falling into the 1gb category at all. Makes me nervous about updating anything!
 

ChMar

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Again MS is not producing the fragmentation. Laziness and blindly porting is. Consumers should stop blaming MS and redirect their anger towards apps publisher. If they voice their anger their force them to better support their ecosystem. ios has multiple resolutions and specifications too. But no developer would there to be sloppy because of wrath from the consumers. Here he have a different mentality. We blame MS and Nokia or HTC but mostly MS. So the apps publisher get a free ride. Demand better software from the publisher use the review to make fair assessments and in the end provided that people also speak with their wallets not just using words you will get premium support because it will be worth while. MS made a good OS set in stone some range of specification to prevent as best as possible the fragmentation. You consumers demand better software from publishers. And everyone will be happy in this ecosystem
 

jwdaigle

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Agreed that publishers should be beaten into submission, which is a tactical after the fact move IMO, but this should have been something MS (and Nokia) should have strategically seen coming.
I have a real problem with how the WP ecosystem is evolving - gotta buy a new phone every 6 months? Is WP == Apple (just one reason I dislike the fruit soooo much)
Luckily I was worried about this memory issue (I saw what happened to the 256MB WP7s) and went for the 820.

By the way, LOVE the phone. Like it so much better than my Galaxy S2 Jellybean was...
 

ChMar

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MS makes OSs and development tools. They build ecosystems like Azure for cloud computing, desktop os for enterprise needs(along with server edition for the control), good tools and apis and smartphone solutions(with an integrated LOB = line of business hub for enterprise security enhancements and special needs) office suites that can accept addons to augment it's operations and consoles that also support indie game publishing. But they are a corporation. They are used to think that if they provide a good ecosystem then 3rd party developers will take advantage of the ecosystem(it's ease of use, its development tools) and provide quality software because in the end that is what 3rd party are selling software and software services.

In reality the big player android come with a different mentality. Its on purpose delay for a paid market place practically forcing developers to monetize their apps through google advertising solutions created the mentality that apps should cost nothing or just a penny and should be adds supported. Now android (not Samsung phones not htc phones) but android in totality has 70% of market share. And the android user mentality is still that apps should be free. So who cares about the quality of the software you provide you need to have your app running on as many smartphone as possible to be able to serve adds and make some profits.

This decline in quality affects all smartphone users. Nowadays smartphone users avoid to browse and demand apps for the services they use. Free apps. This means you don't get web traffic you can't serve web adds you need to data mine the users. Another step towards the decline in quality.

But android users don't care at all about this situation. In the wp ecosystem you have the try solution so it's easier to convince people to buy your app by providing a demo. You can sell again your software because you can showcase your work and then if your app is good get paid for it. This means the wp users have a more powerful voice in their standing with the software publisher. If all users would stop blaming MS because lazy developers don't provide quality apps and stop blaming OEMs for the update complications(some times that is all carriers fault but you can't sell those smartphones without carriers) and put pressure on 3rd party developers then the ecosystem will balance itself. Publishers will not get free pass because users love to blame MS they will invest in quality apps and will get paid and make profit again.

Apps takes month to nurture so be patient and demand apps not to MS but to those that are selling the respective piece of software or service.
 

INDIAN720

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My first post on this lovely forum ... till now a symbian s 60 user, now wanting to shift to a smartphone ... found nokia lumia 720 and been following news and views about it for the past 3 weeks .. though not an avid gamer and app freak but this memory issues is causing troubles in the decision making ... had nokia used 1 gb ram then 720 wud have been the apple of the eye of everyone ...
 

nessinhaw

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you pplz are missing the point...Lumias 520, 620 and 720 are aimed to be cheap devices for emerging markets, newcomers or pplz who can't afford a more expensive model...
now you, as a consumer, should know cheaper devices can't run everything like a high-end, specially games! so it's your choice to buy the cheap one or to save more money and go for a high-end, which will run everything...
i don't believe for one second cheap droids runs everything as smooth as a high-end droid, they do lag a lot...we should consider ourselves lucky WP runs smooth even in cheap devices!
for example, Galaxy Ace 2 is on the same level as Lumia 620 (even cheaper i guess), it has slightly more ram (768Mb i believe) still some reviews says Android and apps get laggy at times!

it's also all about the consumer knowing about the product he is buying...i for once did a lot of research before buying my Lumia 620 and i never expected it to run heavy games for example...every app i got so far runs perfectly fine btw

and just repeating what a lot of pplz are saying, go bother Imangi Studios for a 512Mb version, show them we, owners of cheaper devices, also want the game!
 
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I have a real problem with how the WP ecosystem is evolving - gotta buy a new phone every 6 months? Is WP == Apple (just one reason I dislike the fruit soooo much)
Luckily I was worried about this memory issue (I saw what happened to the 256MB WP7s) and went for the 820.
If you're trying to imply that you need to buy a new iPhone every 6 month then let me tell you that an iPhone 4S released in October 2011 runs all apps that iPhone 5 can and is even on the same iOS version. Is that the same for Windows Phone?
 

Sanjay Chandra

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If you're trying to imply that you need to buy a new iPhone every 6 month then let me tell you that an iPhone 4S released in October 2011 runs all apps that iPhone 5 can and is even on the same iOS version. Is that the same for Windows Phone?

Even iPhone 3GS plays all games (low textures) but they run smooth as butter.Even asphalt 7 runs on it and it got iOS 6 update (only few features have been on 3GS while 4S/5 got all features of it but still if an app needs iOS 6 API's , 3GS has capability to run it.

But iPad 1 and 4th gen iPod are having great displays which make each app to take up more RAM and apps crash (only big graphical apps) but remaining apps run amazingly well (while switching apps , reload happens cuz of low RAM)
 

Narr

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Now Tune In also needs 1 GB RAM ? This is getting ridiculous.

My iPod Touch 4th gen can handle every game fine with 256 MB RAM and is able to play any game on the appstore smoothly apart from one or two.

How come WP apps/games need that much of RAM ?

I am a Lumia 820 user but it concerns me about 620,720,8S users as well as WP8 platform.

One of the strong reasons for Android to gain up marketshare quick was low priced phones and mid ranged phones standing as a backbone to reach every part of the world and every consumer but with these high ram requirements , I don't see WP8 platform moving fast as we all expect it to move.These small Apps like temple run or angry birds or subway surfers play a major role.

TuneIn doesn't need 1GB of ram as evidenced by the Nokia version not needing it, it's only the non-Nokia version that has recently had the details changed.
 

Sanjay Chandra

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TuneIn doesn't need 1GB of ram as evidenced by the Nokia version not needing it, it's only the non-Nokia version that has recently had the details changed.

There is a difference , This what WPCentral wrote in their article :
"Now this is rather odd as the edition listed in the Nokia Collection for Lumia hardware is still the older version (going by "last updated" date) and can be installed on Lumia smartphones with just 512MB of RAM. Weird, right?"
 

Rich White

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Well, I have to say I am with the "1GB RAM Requirement is stupid" set. And I gotta be honest, I think this is MS's fault (and truth be told I am borderline MS ******). They are on a VERY slippery slope with this fragmentation of 512 versus 1GB. :)

Looking forward to the 2 GB Snapdragon Quadcore 600 myself. November? And the 64-bit Atoms. While this app isn't a good discussion point I expect developers to push the next generation chips and memory to the limits.
 

ptrkhh

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In apple case, even though 3GS/4/4S can't run Temple Run, they would still accept it because they know that they are buying last-year devices. But in this case, they are buying the latest 2013 heavily advertised product: 520 620 720. Realizing that Temple Run can't run on their devices would be a big disappointment. Especially when they knew that 710 can run everything that 900 can, but not in case with the 720 920 today.

I don't really need S4 Pro 2GB processor, but Windows Phone needs better GPU. Spiderman is very laggy here (820), which runs very smoothly on my brothers GALAXY S3 even though S3 has higher resolution screen. Fitting the chinese 920s chip (same S4 pro but with Adreno 320) would be enough.
 

Sanjay Chandra

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In apple case, even though 3GS/4/4S can't run Temple Run, they would still accept it because they know that they are buying last-year devices. But in this case, they are buying the latest 2013 heavily advertised product: 520 620 720. Realizing that Temple Run can't run on their devices would be a big disappointment. Especially when they knew that 710 can run everything that 900 can, but not in case with the 720 920 today..

Exactly ! That is highly valid point.

Apple did great thing by prioritizing GPU and sacrificing the CPU.Anand (from Anandtech website) always mentions in his reviews how Apple gives importance to GPU over CPU in SoCs which they use in iDevices.
 

rbxtreme

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On 512 MB devices Apps can use up to 150 MB of Memory. If they exceed that threshold the App will be killed by the OS. On 1 GB devices it's up to 350 MB. This does not mean that the OS is taking up all the rest but there is reserved space for Background Tasks like a Navigation App running in the Background or Skype waiting for incoming calls.

Certain Apps can't run with only 150 MB of usable Memory - especially games, so developers set a flag in the App so it can't be installed on low Memory devices.

The Memory is reserved. The reason is that the System should work predictably - both for users and for Apps. If I have a Navigation Software running in the Background it Needs a guarantee that it will have enough Memory available. I can't just stop Navigation because the Facebook App is loading a big Image. Or if I receive a Skype call I want to talk to someone but perhaps would not want my currently active App to just be closed down because it takes too much Memory. So: no, the Memory is not unused. If Apps don't use their allotted share it is also used to Keep several Apps available for fast switching (e.g. Twitter is still in Memory but asleep).

That actually is an improvement over WP7 where an App was regularly only allowed to use 90 MB of Memory. This was not enforced by the OS so you could go above it if there was enough space available. The Problem was that at some Point it would run out of Memory and then would be killed. That would sometimes happen at 90 MB, sometimes at 150 MB. So a developer could test his App on his device without background Music, etc. and see it crashing all the time on people's devices. This Situation can no longer occur.

The Basic Problem is that Smartphone OS's don't use virtual Memory like on a PC. There if you run out of physical Memory Little used data is swapped out to the hard drive (which slows the System considerably). This normally isn't done on Smartphones because it is taxing on the Flash Memory. 256 MB WP7 devices still implemented it to allow them to even run 90 MB big Apps and Background process were completely deactivated on those devices. WP8 also Needs more Memory for the OS itself than WP7 did.
 

AngryNil

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Fitting the chinese 920s chip (same S4 pro but with Adreno 320) would be enough.
Chinese 920s do not have Adreno 320s. Oh, and Temple Run is not so graphically intensive that your phone is incapable of rendering it at a passable frame rate. The game is terribly optimised. Ultimately doesn't matter to the end user, but it's somewhat important to point out that the hardware isn't at fault here.
 

Sanjay Chandra

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On 512 MB devices Apps can use up to 150 MB of Memory. If they exceed that threshold the App will be killed by the OS. On 1 GB devices it's up to 350 MB. This does not mean that the OS is taking up all the rest but there is reserved space for Background Tasks like a Navigation App running in the Background or Skype waiting for incoming calls.

Certain Apps can't run with only 150 MB of usable Memory - especially games, so developers set a flag in the App so it can't be installed on low Memory devices.

The Memory is reserved. The reason is that the System should work predictably - both for users and for Apps. If I have a Navigation Software running in the Background it Needs a guarantee that it will have enough Memory available. I can't just stop Navigation because the Facebook App is loading a big Image. Or if I receive a Skype call I want to talk to someone but perhaps would not want my currently active App to just be closed down because it takes too much Memory. So: no, the Memory is not unused. If Apps don't use their allotted share it is also used to Keep several Apps available for fast switching (e.g. Twitter is still in Memory but asleep).

That actually is an improvement over WP7 where an App was regularly only allowed to use 90 MB of Memory. This was not enforced by the OS so you could go above it if there was enough space available. The Problem was that at some Point it would run out of Memory and then would be killed. That would sometimes happen at 90 MB, sometimes at 150 MB. So a developer could test his App on his device without background Music, etc. and see it crashing all the time on people's devices. This Situation can no longer occur.

The Basic Problem is that Smartphone OS's don't use virtual Memory like on a PC. There if you run out of physical Memory Little used data is swapped out to the hard drive (which slows the System considerably). This normally isn't done on Smartphones because it is taxing on the Flash Memory. 256 MB WP7 devices still implemented it to allow them to even run 90 MB big Apps and Background process were completely deactivated on those devices. WP8 also Needs more Memory for the OS itself than WP7 did.

Do you really think that a normal consumer understands these reasons ? Only thing they care about is "Works or not"
 

rockstarzzz

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I read this thread and these days how interesting the thread is depends on the number of teas I drink while reading it. 3 for this one.

While there are people who have clearly moved on to other platforms and aren't happy with the way Windows Phone has evolved and they have super major contributions in this thread, I don't think most of them are valid.

Why isn't anyone looking at it from this perspective : You got a phone with low spec i.e 512 RAM right? You paid less money than the guy who paid for Lumia 920 right? You did not buy a flagship device, right? Now don't give me an example of iPhone because there is always ONE iPhone per OS iteration. For Windows Phone 8 OS, there are plenty of phones. Low ends, mid range, flagships. This is same with Androids right? If you pay for low end phone, don't expect high end performance or apps, simple. I wouldn't. I don't know why would you. If apps don't work on high end Lumia 920 e.g. Tentacles or Viber HD - I would be totally pissed and I am about those apps.

Let's compare low end WP with low end Androids and let's talk about the performances. Back in the day, Windows Phone ads (those who don't own WP anymore, you will know what I'm talking about) that showed how smooth and non-laggy the device is compared to others were everywhere. The point was - WP doesn't lag, WP is consistent. Pick up a low end WP and pick up a low end Android both with latest and greatest OS updates on them. WP will not lag, it won't **** out, it won't force close. However in Android it will. Now what use is that TuneIn radio or Temple Run or whatever you lot are on about, if it will make my phone laggy? If I wanted that, I would surely buy an Android anyway. WP came out with providing a fresher and better user experience. It's focused on user experience. It wasn't focused on apps even at the beginning. Everything was about integration (remember old days, veterans?)

I understand the point that some apps just don't need 1GB RAM e.g. TuneIn and they shouldn't demand that - but probably they've done their home work and it might be OK on Android to run in the choppy environment, by MS standards if it doesn't feel optimized with 512 MB RAM. That when 1GB RAM version is released and then after further development, optimization 512 one is released. There were few games recently that released in this fashion right?

I think most of the people on WP who have used it since 2010 or in 2011, would vote for stability, speed and fluidity of the OS anyday over the most popular app in other marketplaces. However, those switching from other OS always want those apps because to them even a laggy app doesn't feel any different than what they had on their previous phone. I don't know. My tea is finished, I need to make a brew now.
 

travisel

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With WP9 "Blue" this fall we will see another hardware update!

- 5" 1080p display (441PPI) with Gorilla Glass 3

- Quad-Core Snapdragon 800 series (MSM8974) Adreno 330

- 2GB Ram / 64GB flash / 128GB microSD

- 2500+ mAh battery's

Surface Phone
Lumia 940
ATIV S2

Like it or not it's coming this year!

iPhone 5S will have 2GB
Android 5 will move to 3GB
BlackBerry 10 has 2GB
Windows Phone 9 will move to 2GB
All this year!
Good news is we are all using ARMv7 technology stuck on 32-bit hardware with the MAX RAM of 3GB.

I'm glad my minimum is 1GB RAM with my ATIV S, but I expect the same will happen to me with APPS a year from now with all new 2GB WP9 hardware devices, developers will take advantage of the new Adreno 330 GPU/Krait 400 CPU with 2GB RAM.
My ATIV S with MSM8960 & Adreno 225 with 1GB Ram get completely destroyed spec wise! So I'm in the same boat as all people with 512MB Ram one year from now!
 

Sanjay Chandra

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I read this thread and these days how interesting the thread is depends on the number of teas I drink while reading it. 3 for this one.

While there are people who have clearly moved on to other platforms and aren't happy with the way Windows Phone has evolved and they have super major contributions in this thread, I don't think most of them are valid.

Why isn't anyone looking at it from this perspective : You got a phone with low spec i.e 512 RAM right? You paid less money than the guy who paid for Lumia 920 right? You did not buy a flagship device, right? Now don't give me an example of iPhone because there is always ONE iPhone per OS iteration. For Windows Phone 8 OS, there are plenty of phones. Low ends, mid range, flagships. This is same with Androids right? If you pay for low end phone, don't expect high end performance or apps, simple. I wouldn't. I don't know why would you. If apps don't work on high end Lumia 920 e.g. Tentacles or Viber HD - I would be totally pissed and I am about those apps.

Let's compare low end WP with low end Androids and let's talk about the performances. Back in the day, Windows Phone ads (those who don't own WP anymore, you will know what I'm talking about) that showed how smooth and non-laggy the device is compared to others were everywhere. The point was - WP doesn't lag, WP is consistent. Pick up a low end WP and pick up a low end Android both with latest and greatest OS updates on them. WP will not lag, it won't **** out, it won't force close. However in Android it will. Now what use is that TuneIn radio or Temple Run or whatever you lot are on about, if it will make my phone laggy? If I wanted that, I would surely buy an Android anyway. WP came out with providing a fresher and better user experience. It's focused on user experience. It wasn't focused on apps even at the beginning. Everything was about integration (remember old days, veterans?)

I understand the point that some apps just don't need 1GB RAM e.g. TuneIn and they shouldn't demand that - but probably they've done their home work and it might be OK on Android to run in the choppy environment, by MS standards if it doesn't feel optimized with 512 MB RAM. That when 1GB RAM version is released and then after further development, optimization 512 one is released. There were few games recently that released in this fashion right?

I think most of the people on WP who have used it since 2010 or in 2011, would vote for stability, speed and fluidity of the OS anyday over the most popular app in other marketplaces. However, those switching from other OS always want those apps because to them even a laggy app doesn't feel any different than what they had on their previous phone. I don't know. My tea is finished, I need to make a brew now.

Here's the problem :
Android 4.2 update has suffered with so many issues and Android Police website made a separate article regarding problems faced by people who got 4.2 update and its even worse than iOS 6 (Maps , Do not disturb not working , new year alarm not working etc.)

WP8 had its share of issues as well ( like other storage,reboots,freezing etc. which are fixed and so did other platforms)

Don't tell me "WP is stable" , god knows how many issues it faced.iOS is the one which faced "least stability issues" in my opinion.
But I admit that WP apps crash FAR less than iOS or Android.

No Platform is good at first , but it gets better with time.

Here issue is not with money or "You get what you pay for" argument.

There are 3 issues with 1 gb ram limitations :
1.Platform Fragmentation : A guy who got device from 2013 is not able to run a simple app while a guy who has 4 year old 3GS/Galaxy S1 is able to run the same app nicely on their device without issues .I am speaking of small apps but not intensive apps.Come on , A radio app not able to run on a 2013 device ? Lets say if 900 or 800 can't run , then people would be like "its little old to run" but not being able to run on a latest device is pathetic.

2.Platform doesn't move fast :
I have an 820 which is high end but imagine people who got 620s or 8S , how would they feel ? Not only that , Mid range and low end devices are needed to reach more and more consumers across the world.If a guy who has xperia tipo which is like $150 can run more apps without issues or lags compared to a 520 , how would a 520 user feel ? they will never invest into the platform again and never buys apps because they won't stay in platform.

A small example : How many have iPhone 5's ? And how many have iPhone 4S ? There are more 4S's in the world than iPhone 5's and even more iPhone 4's exist compared to iPhone 4S/5 because
4S has been selling from 1.5 year and iPhone 4 from like 2.5 years , 3GS's exist even more
So probably developers get more money if they target 4S and 4's , if they only make their apps/games for iPhone 5 , they are going to loose 50%+ of the money and get disappointing results.

512 mb ram means even older devices like 800 and 710 can run them but not just 620s or 8S's

User base of 512 mb devices is far greater than 1gb devices.

3.Shows inefficiency :A simple app needing 1 gb ram ? then its nothing more than bloat.Difference between bloat and a normal app is resources they consume Vs functionality they have.
 
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