01-04-2014 07:59 PM
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  1. tgp's Avatar
    I highly doubt these things will be what they will be annoyed by
    I keep a foot in the door of WP, but at this point I don't use it as my primary phone. I tried a couple times, but retreated. Some of the things JKing106 listed are what annoy me about WP. I'm hoping they change so I can go all in with WP in the future. But for now they're reality.
    JKing106 and FinancialP like this.
    12-02-2013 10:41 PM
  2. cckgz4's Avatar
    I keep a foot in the door of WP, but at this point I don't use it as my primary phone. I tried a couple times, but retreated. Some of the things JKing106 listed are what annoy me about WP. I'm hoping they change so I can go all in with WP in the future. But for now they're reality.
    I mean when I make generalized statements like that, it's in reference to the general consumer, not the prosumer like us on these forums. We know what we want, they don't. So if they barely know the proper name for Android and the separate OEMS (calling everything a Samsung doesn't count), I'm highly doubtful that they have such a specific annoyance like separate media volume and a file manager.
    12-02-2013 11:33 PM
  3. cckgz4's Avatar
    Read the "What WP8 Needs To Succeed" thread. Many, many people are highly annoyed with the issues I listed, among others. We're not in the honeymoon period anymore.
    Again, anything that reflects "Read the forum" or "Read the online polls" does not refer to what I'm generalizing. Read my above post.

    You are a prosumer and so are those that are participating in that topic.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-02-2013 11:37 PM
  4. Reflexx's Avatar
    What do you guys think the business model for bing and outlook.com is, if it's not collecting information about you to sell to advertisers? The only reason to feel more comfortable with Microsoft doing it over Google that I can think of is that Microsoft probably still sucks at it.
    MS doesn't collect personal identifying information. They get general information like a TV advertiser might have when putting a commercial on a particular show.

    It's not as targeted as Google's, so advertisers like Google's services better.
    12-02-2013 11:43 PM
  5. Reflexx's Avatar
    I don't seeing Android being like Symbian, but I do see a fall. And it's not entirely the fault of the Android OS.

    Samsung is the BIG Android OEM right now. If they go with Tizen, many users will follow. That ends up almost killing Android on the high end.

    Sure, there will still be HTC (if they survive long enough), LG, and whoever is left trying to take Samsung's spot, but there may not be a spot to take. Samsung's branding is so strong. It's stronger than Android's branding. Just like how Lumia's branding is stronger than Windows Phone's branding.

    If Samsung goes with Tizen in 2015, I could see the end of 2015 looking like...
    Android iOS Windows Phone Tizen Other
    25% 35% 20% 15% 5%
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-02-2013 11:52 PM
  6. techiez's Avatar
    I don't seeing Android being like Symbian, but I do see a fall. And it's not entirely the fault of the Android OS.

    Samsung is the BIG Android OEM right now. If they go with Tizen, many users will follow. That ends up almost killing Android on the high end.

    Sure, there will still be HTC (if they survive long enough), LG, and whoever is left trying to take Samsung's spot, but there may not be a spot to take. Samsung's branding is so strong. It's stronger than Android's branding. Just like how Lumia's branding is stronger than Windows Phone's branding.

    If Samsung goes with Tizen in 2015, I could see the end of 2015 looking like...
    Android iOS Windows Phone Tizen Other
    25% 35% 20% 15% 5%
    If BADA didnt suceed, how will Tizen, if Samsung leaves android others will quickly grab the share, Samsung will not let that happen, Tizen is just a backup and not a replacement.
    12-02-2013 11:56 PM
  7. techiez's Avatar
    I mean when I make generalized statements like that, it's in reference to the general consumer, not the prosumer like us on these forums. We know what we want, they don't. So if they barely know the proper name for Android and the separate OEMS (calling everything a Samsung doesn't count), I'm highly doubtful that they have such a specific annoyance like separate media volume and a file manager.
    you are underestimating avg consumer. things which annoy, annoy everyone we are not talking about power features but basics such has separate volume etc these are the things everyone uses and annoy everyone.
    JKing106 likes this.
    12-02-2013 11:57 PM
  8. nessinhaw's Avatar
    i think Android biggest problems are:
    fragmentation
    OEM skins and bloatware

    the recently launched Moto G is proof that Android can go smooth with more humble specs...IF it is stock! Motorola just added like 2 or 3 apps but they do have some kind of utility!

    but those OEM skins (specially touchwiz) makes the OS heavy and laggy...many pplz use another launcher or root their phone and go for CM BUT the common user doesent do this stuff...i think touchwiz (or any other oem skin) should be forbidden on low-mid phones lol

    and fragmentation...Google kinda wants to revert this with Android Kitkat, which has optimizations to run even on 512Mb of RAM so technically even low end phones could receive this update...BUT then we have the problem of updates going thru OEMs and carriers + the huge amount of Android devices and the fact OEMs doesent want old devices to be updated so the consumer is forced to buy a new one still makes it difficult to unify Android...still, its a start, lets see how and if Kitkat will rly deliver this more optimized and smooth performance!

    At least now Google sees a good low-mid device with the OS running as smooth as it can - putting experience over specs - might turn things around and attract lots of pplz from emerging markets too, who were turning to WP for the cheap but premium and smooth experience the 520/620 offers!
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-03-2013 12:10 AM
  9. anon5997296's Avatar
    BUT then we have the problem of updates going thru OEMs and carriers + the huge amount of Android devices and the fact OEMs doesent want old devices to be updated so the consumer is forced to buy a new one still makes it difficult to unify Android...still, its a start, lets see how and if Kitkat will rly deliver this more optimized and smooth performance!
    This is why I left Android. If they think people will buy their new phones, then it's not entirely true. They can move to another OEM or OS just like my case.. So happy with my red 920 and I'll never go back to Android.. :-)
    12-03-2013 12:26 AM
  10. nessinhaw's Avatar
    This is why I left Android. If they think people will buy their new phones, then it's not entirely true. They can move to another OEM or OS just like my case.. So happy with my red 920 and I'll never go back to Android.. :-)
    yes yes...but i meant their intention is making pplz buy a new phone every year XD

    i'm going to give Android another shot...purchased a Moto G last friday (i live in Brazil...our Black Friday is a fail compared to US but i was lucky and got a good discount on the device) but if it disappoints me again, i know WP will still be there :)

    so these are my last 20 days with WP >< (the Moto G promo was so good they ran outta stock in minutes but they put it again for sale thru pre-sale until new stocks arrives)
    12-03-2013 12:37 AM
  11. pseudoware's Avatar
    This is why I left Android. If they think people will buy their new phones, then it's not entirely true. They can move to another OEM or OS just like my case.. So happy with my red 920 and I'll never go back to Android.. :-)
    Or they can get an Android device not bloated by an OEM or with updates delayed by a carrier. ;-)

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    12-03-2013 12:37 AM
  12. cckgz4's Avatar
    you are underestimating avg consumer. things which annoy, annoy everyone we are not talking about power features but basics such has separate volume etc these are the things everyone uses and annoy everyone.
    Your statement is false because I'm not annoyed by it (otherwise why would I come back to the platform MULTIPLE times), therefore, everyone is NOT annoyed by it
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-03-2013 01:16 AM
  13. Reflexx's Avatar
    If BADA didnt suceed, how will Tizen, if Samsung leaves android others will quickly grab the share, Samsung will not let that happen, Tizen is just a backup and not a replacement.
    I think they've learned with Bada. They're also learning with Android.

    When they were working on Bada, the Galaxy brand was nowhere near as strong as it is today.

    Tizen uses what they had from Bada and builds on it. I believe that it may even be able to use any applications that were developed for Bada.

    Samsung is also currently making an effort to build an app library. When they do go Tizen, they will likely do so with some sort of ecosystem in place. I also wouldn't be surprised to see it run many Android apps.

    We're probably going to see Tizen being used in many Samsung devices, including TVs, stereos, cameras, and home appliances.
    12-03-2013 02:39 AM
  14. JKing106's Avatar
    I keep a foot in the door of WP, but at this point I don't use it as my primary phone. I tried a couple times, but retreated. Some of the things JKing106 listed are what annoy me about WP. I'm hoping they change so I can go all in with WP in the future. But for now they're reality.



    I'm in the same boat. I really, really like some things about this Lumia 822, but I'm seriously considering selling it before it's worthless to help buy a Moto G. Like I said, it's the little "no-brainer" issues that should have been fixed by now that are driving me away.

    And that's a damn shame.
    12-03-2013 06:12 AM
  15. anon5997296's Avatar
    Only if I got Opera Mini and reliable notifications, I'd be so happy. Facebook chat notifications through both messaging and Facebook beta are not reliable at all. Very few times arrive instantly, some times with some seconds difference and sometimes some minutes. So I've to rely on my Android for facebook chat. Even Whatsapp messages are sometimes late like 10 minutes late. It's so bothering. And no Opera Mini. And I'm on a limited data plan. So anything for net and chatting I've to use my android. And I use my 920 for music, camera and when I need to open a site which doesn't load properly on Opera Mini. So right now my both phones are my primary phones.. :-D
    12-03-2013 06:20 AM
  16. tgp's Avatar
    I don't seeing Android being like Symbian, but I do see a fall. And it's not entirely the fault of the Android OS.

    Samsung is the BIG Android OEM right now. If they go with Tizen, many users will follow. That ends up almost killing Android on the high end.

    Sure, there will still be HTC (if they survive long enough), LG, and whoever is left trying to take Samsung's spot, but there may not be a spot to take. Samsung's branding is so strong. It's stronger than Android's branding. Just like how Lumia's branding is stronger than Windows Phone's branding.

    If Samsung goes with Tizen in 2015, I could see the end of 2015 looking like...
    Android iOS Windows Phone Tizen Other
    25% 35% 20% 15% 5%
    I don't see Tizen making too much headway, at least anytime soon. The current leaders, meaning Apple and Google, have built very strong ecosystems, which is becoming more & more important. Even Microsoft, who has a decent ecosystem but was late to the modern mobile game, is having difficulty making headway in the mobile world. Tizen's ecosystem would need to be built from the ground up, unless they use Google's somehow. I don't even know if that's possible.
    12-03-2013 07:39 AM
  17. thed's Avatar
    MS doesn't collect personal identifying information. They get general information like a TV advertiser might have when putting a commercial on a particular show.

    It's not as targeted as Google's, so advertisers like Google's services better.
    MS does collect your information for targeted ads. Here's a quote directly from the privacy policy (emphasis mine):
    "Microsoft collects and uses your personal information to operate and improve its sites and services. These uses include providing you with more effective customer service; making the sites or services easier to use by eliminating the need for you to repeatedly enter the same information; performing research and analysis aimed at improving our products, services and technologies; and displaying content and advertising that are customized to your interests and preferences."

    Sounds an awful lot like what Google does.

    By the way, you can can opt out of targeted ads from both MS and Google. But that doesn't mean they'll stop collecting information about you.
    12-03-2013 04:24 PM
  18. Reflexx's Avatar
    MS does collect your information for targeted ads. Here's a quote directly from the privacy policy (emphasis mine):
    "Microsoft collects and uses your personal information to operate and improve its sites and services. These uses include providing you with more effective customer service; making the sites or services easier to use by eliminating the need for you to repeatedly enter the same information; performing research and analysis aimed at improving our products, services and technologies; and displaying content and advertising that are customized to your interests and preferences."

    Sounds an awful lot like what Google does.

    By the way, you can can opt out of targeted ads from both MS and Google. But that doesn't mean they'll stop collecting information about you.
    With Outlook, MS actually asks you what your interests and preferences are. You fill it out. They're not searching your email for key words.
    12-03-2013 05:11 PM
  19. Citizen X's Avatar
    Then, after 3 months, they will be so annoyed with things like no separate volume controls, no installing apps to SD, dialer defaulting to call history instead of the freakin' dialer, no VPN, waiting a year for buggy 1st party apps 2 generations behind Apple and Android, schizophrenic settings menu that makes no sense, etc.

    Now, WP8 has potential to be good. But some of Microsoft's decisions, and long update cycles to fix minor things is killing it.
    I actually had to pick up my phone and look into the dialer thing. Never really noticed that. I mean most people dial numbers from their address book or their recently called list. The number pad has to be the least used feature for most people. Why on earth would they make that the default screen when you hit the phone button?

    Most people don't know what VPN is. C'mon man. Be serious.

    The settings menu is as good or bad as any other. Really this is a pretty weak list of complaints.

    Compared to iOS I can definitely see an app quality complaint but as time goes on that should be remedied. Another thing is for the may functions of a phone Windows Phone works well. You can call, email, surf the web and text pretty easily. Just ask my girlfriend with an iphone which apps she uses. She didn't mention a single one that wasn't also available for WP8. Most apps aren't used a few days after they are downloaded. What people have to do is see what apps they simply must have and see which platforms support those apps. I don't care which platform has the most bad @$$ version of Words with Friends. I never play games on my phone... or ever really.
    cckgz4 likes this.
    12-04-2013 01:16 PM
  20. Citizen X's Avatar
    i think Android biggest problems are:
    fragmentation
    Yeah the problem with comparing iOS, Windows Phone and Andriod market share numbers is Andriod pumps out a ton of phones that wouldn't even be considered smartphones by Windows Phone or iOS standards. Apple is so much more profitable because it sells tons of $199 phones and their cheaper phones are just previous flagship phones. Besides the new 5c they don't create lower spec phones and sell them as brand new. Even the 5c is sold at a pretty premium price. Apple has no desire to compete in large swaths of the cell phone market. Those areas barely have any profit.
    cckgz4 likes this.
    12-04-2013 01:20 PM
  21. FinancialP's Avatar
    Yeah the problem with comparing iOS, Windows Phone and Andriod market share numbers is Andriod pumps out a ton of phones that wouldn't even be considered smartphones by Windows Phone or iOS standards. Apple is so much more profitable because it sells tons of $199 phones and their cheaper phones are just previous flagship phones. Besides the new 5c they don't create lower spec phones and sell them as brand new. Even the 5c is sold at a pretty premium price. Apple has no desire to compete in large swaths of the cell phone market. Those areas barely have any profit.
    While this is true for Apple. It's the opposite for everyone else.

    Samsung, Nokia, LG, Motorola, etc.... All make the majority of their profits from lower end phones.

    That is why Samsung pumps a ton of phones out. That is why HTC is in the position it is in, they didn't pump out any lower end phones.
    12-04-2013 01:29 PM
  22. Citizen X's Avatar
    While this is true for Apple. It's the opposite for everyone else.

    Samsung, Nokia, LG, Motorola, etc.... All make the majority of their profits from lower end phones.

    That is why Samsung pumps a ton of phones out. That is why HTC is in the position it is in, they didn't pump out any lower end phones.
    So you are agreeing with me. Apple can sell fewer phones with a higher profit margin per a phone and still beat tons of companies that are trying to cobble together profits with low end phones. That's why you can't compare Andriod market share with Apple market share and say Andriod is "winning." Even windows phone shoots to have their latest OS functional on all phones sold within the last year. It's just a different mix than the Andriod market share. I would be totally happy if Windows phone was never as large as Andriod. Those Andriod numbers include plenty of low end phones not running the latest software.
    cckgz4 likes this.
    12-04-2013 02:32 PM
  23. fatclue_98's Avatar
    So you are agreeing with me. Apple can sell fewer phones with a higher profit margin per a phone and still beat tons of companies that are trying to cobble together profits with low end phones. That's why you can't compare Andriod market share with Apple market share and say Andriod is "winning." Even windows phone shoots to have their latest OS functional on all phones sold within the last year. It's just a different mix than the Andriod market share. I would be totally happy if Windows phone was never as large as Andriod. Those Andriod numbers include plenty of low end phones not running the latest software.
    By your logic, the WP numbers should include Windows Mobile units which are still plentiful.
    12-05-2013 11:49 AM
  24. JKing106's Avatar
    I actually had to pick up my phone and look into the dialer thing. Never really noticed that. I mean most people dial numbers from their address book or their recently called list. The number pad has to be the least used feature for most people. Why on earth would they make that the default screen when you hit the phone button?







    Most people don't know what VPN is. C'mon man. Be serious.







    The settings menu is as good or bad as any other. Really this is a pretty weak list of complaints.







    Compared to iOS I can definitely see an app quality complaint but as time goes on that should be remedied. Another thing is for the may functions of a phone Windows Phone works well. You can call, email, surf the web and text pretty easily. Just ask my girlfriend with an iphone which apps she uses. She didn't mention a single one that wasn't also available for WP8. Most apps aren't used a few days after they are downloaded. What people have to do is see what apps they simply must have and see which platforms support those apps. I don't care which platform has the most bad @$$ version of Words with Friends. I never play games on my phone... or ever really.




    That's, like, just your opinion, man...





    Seriously, you may not care about any of those things, and be completely satisfied. Good for you. I, on the other hand, am not. I'm also not the kind of person who will bite my tongue about issues out of "brand loyalty." That's just stupidity. I really like a lot of things about WP8, but the things I listed, and other things, are becoming deal breakers. Apparently some other folks feel the same way.
    Last edited by JKing106; 12-05-2013 at 12:44 PM.
    12-05-2013 12:27 PM
  25. rakesh1995's Avatar
    F apple there sell gets most boosted from contract based system in USA and rest of world is stupid enuff to follow a merry cants(merry Christmas)



    Sent from my Uuusumm Lumia 520 using Tapatalk
    12-06-2013 09:57 AM
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