Android's Achilles Heel

[tgp]

I don't seeing Android being like Symbian, but I do see a fall. And it's not entirely the fault of the Android OS.

Samsung is the BIG Android OEM right now. If they go with Tizen, many users will follow. That ends up almost killing Android on the high end.

Sure, there will still be HTC (if they survive long enough), LG, and whoever is left trying to take Samsung's spot, but there may not be a spot to take. Samsung's branding is so strong. It's stronger than Android's branding. Just like how Lumia's branding is stronger than Windows Phone's branding.

If Samsung goes with Tizen in 2015, I could see the end of 2015 looking like...

Android	iOS	Windows Phone	Tizen	Other
25%	35%	20%	15%	5%

I don't see Tizen making too much headway, at least anytime soon. The current leaders, meaning Apple and Google, have built very strong ecosystems, which is becoming more & more important. Even Microsoft, who has a decent ecosystem but was late to the modern mobile game, is having difficulty making headway in the mobile world. Tizen's ecosystem would need to be built from the ground up, unless they use Google's somehow. I don't even know if that's possible.

 

[thed]

MS doesn't collect personal identifying information. They get general information like a TV advertiser might have when putting a commercial on a particular show.

It's not as targeted as Google's, so advertisers like Google's services better.

MS does collect your information for targeted ads. Here's a quote directly from the privacy policy (emphasis mine):
"Microsoft collects and uses your personal information to operate and improve its sites and services. These uses include providing you with more effective customer service; making the sites or services easier to use by eliminating the need for you to repeatedly enter the same information; performing research and analysis aimed at improving our products, services and technologies; and displaying content and advertising that are customized to your interests and preferences."

Sounds an awful lot like what Google does.

By the way, you can can opt out of targeted ads from both MS and Google. But that doesn't mean they'll stop collecting information about you.

 

[Reflexx]

MS does collect your information for targeted ads. Here's a quote directly from the privacy policy (emphasis mine):
"Microsoft collects and uses your personal information to operate and improve its sites and services. These uses include providing you with more effective customer service; making the sites or services easier to use by eliminating the need for you to repeatedly enter the same information; performing research and analysis aimed at improving our products, services and technologies; and displaying content and advertising that are customized to your interests and preferences."

Sounds an awful lot like what Google does.

By the way, you can can opt out of targeted ads from both MS and Google. But that doesn't mean they'll stop collecting information about you.

With Outlook, MS actually asks you what your interests and preferences are. You fill it out. They're not searching your email for key words.

 

[Citizen X]

Then, after 3 months, they will be so annoyed with things like no separate volume controls, no installing apps to SD, dialer defaulting to call history instead of the freakin' dialer, no VPN, waiting a year for buggy 1st party apps 2 generations behind Apple and Android, schizophrenic settings menu that makes no sense, etc.

Now, WP8 has potential to be good. But some of Microsoft's decisions, and long update cycles to fix minor things is killing it.

I actually had to pick up my phone and look into the dialer thing. Never really noticed that. I mean most people dial numbers from their address book or their recently called list. The number pad has to be the least used feature for most people. Why on earth would they make that the default screen when you hit the phone button?

Most people don't know what VPN is. C'mon man. Be serious.

The settings menu is as good or bad as any other. Really this is a pretty weak list of complaints.

Compared to iOS I can definitely see an app quality complaint but as time goes on that should be remedied. Another thing is for the may functions of a phone Windows Phone works well. You can call, email, surf the web and text pretty easily. Just ask my girlfriend with an iphone which apps she uses. She didn't mention a single one that wasn't also available for WP8. Most apps aren't used a few days after they are downloaded. What people have to do is see what apps they simply must have and see which platforms support those apps. I don't care which platform has the most bad @$$ version of Words with Friends. I never play games on my phone... or ever really.

 

[Citizen X]

i think Android biggest problems are:
fragmentation

Yeah the problem with comparing iOS, Windows Phone and Andriod market share numbers is Andriod pumps out a ton of phones that wouldn't even be considered smartphones by Windows Phone or iOS standards. Apple is so much more profitable because it sells tons of $199 phones and their cheaper phones are just previous flagship phones. Besides the new 5c they don't create lower spec phones and sell them as brand new. Even the 5c is sold at a pretty premium price. Apple has no desire to compete in large swaths of the cell phone market. Those areas barely have any profit.

 

[FinancialP]

Yeah the problem with comparing iOS, Windows Phone and Andriod market share numbers is Andriod pumps out a ton of phones that wouldn't even be considered smartphones by Windows Phone or iOS standards. Apple is so much more profitable because it sells tons of $199 phones and their cheaper phones are just previous flagship phones. Besides the new 5c they don't create lower spec phones and sell them as brand new. Even the 5c is sold at a pretty premium price. Apple has no desire to compete in large swaths of the cell phone market. Those areas barely have any profit.

While this is true for Apple. It's the opposite for everyone else.

Samsung, Nokia, LG, Motorola, etc.... All make the majority of their profits from lower end phones.

That is why Samsung pumps a ton of phones out. That is why HTC is in the position it is in, they didn't pump out any lower end phones.

 

[Citizen X]

While this is true for Apple. It's the opposite for everyone else.

Samsung, Nokia, LG, Motorola, etc.... All make the majority of their profits from lower end phones.

That is why Samsung pumps a ton of phones out. That is why HTC is in the position it is in, they didn't pump out any lower end phones.

So you are agreeing with me. Apple can sell fewer phones with a higher profit margin per a phone and still beat tons of companies that are trying to cobble together profits with low end phones. That's why you can't compare Andriod market share with Apple market share and say Andriod is "winning." Even windows phone shoots to have their latest OS functional on all phones sold within the last year. It's just a different mix than the Andriod market share. I would be totally happy if Windows phone was never as large as Andriod. Those Andriod numbers include plenty of low end phones not running the latest software.

 

[fatclue_98]

So you are agreeing with me. Apple can sell fewer phones with a higher profit margin per a phone and still beat tons of companies that are trying to cobble together profits with low end phones. That's why you can't compare Andriod market share with Apple market share and say Andriod is "winning." Even windows phone shoots to have their latest OS functional on all phones sold within the last year. It's just a different mix than the Andriod market share. I would be totally happy if Windows phone was never as large as Andriod. Those Andriod numbers include plenty of low end phones not running the latest software.

By your logic, the WP numbers should include Windows Mobile units which are still plentiful.

 

[JKing106]

I actually had to pick up my phone and look into the dialer thing. Never really noticed that. I mean most people dial numbers from their address book or their recently called list. The number pad has to be the least used feature for most people. Why on earth would they make that the default screen when you hit the phone button?







Most people don't know what VPN is. C'mon man. Be serious.







The settings menu is as good or bad as any other. Really this is a pretty weak list of complaints.







Compared to iOS I can definitely see an app quality complaint but as time goes on that should be remedied. Another thing is for the may functions of a phone Windows Phone works well. You can call, email, surf the web and text pretty easily. Just ask my girlfriend with an iphone which apps she uses. She didn't mention a single one that wasn't also available for WP8. Most apps aren't used a few days after they are downloaded. What people have to do is see what apps they simply must have and see which platforms support those apps. I don't care which platform has the most bad @$$ version of Words with Friends. I never play games on my phone... or ever really.

That's, like, just your opinion, man...





Seriously, you may not care about any of those things, and be completely satisfied. Good for you. I, on the other hand, am not. I'm also not the kind of person who will bite my tongue about issues out of "brand loyalty." That's just stupidity. I really like a lot of things about WP8, but the things I listed, and other things, are becoming deal breakers. Apparently some other folks feel the same way.

 

[rakesh1995]

F apple there sell gets most boosted from contract based system in USA and rest of world is stupid enuff to follow a merry cants(merry Christmas)



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[tgp]

F apple there sell gets most boosted from contract based system in USA and rest of world is stupid enuff to follow a merry cants(merry Christmas)

I'm not sure why so many people feel this way towards Apple. I'm by no means an Apple ****** but as far as I know they do their business fair and square (OK that may be debatable but that can apply to Microsoft & Google too) and nobody is forced to use their products. If they can sell their devices at premium prices more power to 'em! Microsoft would kill to have a fraction of Apple's success in the mobile world. And, to Apple's credit, their devices earned their excellent reputation.

 

[rakesh1995]

I'm not sure why so many people feel this way towards Apple. I'm by no means an Apple ****** but as far as I know they do their business fair and square (OK that may be debatable but that can apply to Microsoft & Google too) and nobody is forced to use their products. If they can sell their devices at premium prices more power to 'em! Microsoft would kill to have a fraction of Apple's success in the mobile world. And, to Apple's credit, their devices earned their excellent reputation.

true if there were no apple there would have been no smartphone.
"Apple reinvented the phone"

its "iPhone"


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[Shouvik Mazumdar]

No one is taking anything away from Apple. They deserve the excellent success they are enjoying now. But a majority of people today buy an iPhone just becuase they feel "it is cool" to sport one. We call it herd mentality.

Purely from the product perspective , purely from the cost to value benefit , a high end Lumia or a high end Android offers much better ROI than an iPhone. But again , this is my personal view

 

[Shouvik Mazumdar]

There are many things WP does good , but there are many things it should still do good. I am hoping WP blue makes us say wow and I sincerely hope MS doesn't blow away this chance. Good to see that in this one year nothing significant has happenned on Android / iOS front ( am not counting finger print reader as noteworthy) , so MS doesn't have to play too much catch up. Just make your freaking update cycle faster ! I mean seriously GDR updates are good but they should have come in 2012 not 2013 Q4 !

 

[dastardly donut]

Android in the Mobile world has become what Windows was in the home pc world. It is put on too many phones/tablets and way too many versions out there from dirt cheap to high end. So the normal Joe Shmo buys a cheap straight talk phone and expects the same experience as a Galaxy S4.
That's where WP8 is doing a great job of delivering an equal enough experience across the price range of phones

 

[fatclue_98]

Android in the Mobile world has become what Windows was in the home pc world. It is put on too many phones/tablets and way too many versions out there from dirt cheap to high end. So the normal Joe Shmo buys a cheap straight talk phone and expects the same experience as a Galaxy S4.
That's where WP8 is doing a great job of delivering an equal enough experience across the price range of phones

What do you say to Mr. Schmo who just bought a Straight Talk Huawei W1?

 

[dastardly donut]

What do you say to Mr. Schmo who just bought a Straight Talk Huawei W1?

You are trying to say that the W1 doesn't look and act almost the same as say a Lumia 920. It may have 512 but it still has the same feel and style still can run most of the games and apps. Where my girlfriends LG straight talk can barely download basic Google play apps, never gets updated for anything!!! And she is just short of having to hand crank it to get it started

 

[tgp]

You are trying to say that the W1 doesn't look and act almost the same as say a Lumia 920. It may have 512 but it still has the same feel and style still can run most of the games and apps. Where my girlfriends LG straight talk can barely download basic Google play apps, never gets updated for anything!!! And she is just short of having to hand crank it to get it started

Android ages very quickly. But the idea is that KitKat will change that. I have my doubts whether it'll be as good on low end phones as it's hyped up to be, but we'll see...

But it's a bit irrational to get a new device and compare it to a 2-year-old phone. Of course the new one is faster! A new phone virtually always outperforms an old one, regardless of the OS. I currently have a Nexus 5, and it takes 2nd place to nobody in speed, smoothness, stability, and overall performance. You might be able to match it, but you won't beat it!

 

[rakesh1995]

Google has been saying "this new version of android is optimised to run on lower spec harwared" since 4 year. Lol

But now as google is working to remove virtual machine from android. They might posses a huge threat for Wp and iOS

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[ag1986]

Google has been saying "this new version of android is optimised to run on lower spec harwared" since 4 year. Lol

But now as google is working to remove virtual machine from android. They might posses a huge threat for Wp and iOS

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My Nexus got Kitkat last week. it's just as fast as it was before, but, where I would normally have 15-20% battery when I got home at night, I now have 50% after 12 hrs of moderate usage they did SOMETHING right with this.