01-06-2014 04:33 PM
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  1. tungha's Avatar
    WP8 uses the NT kernel, it will be most likely that future major updates will be made under the NT kernel.
    my friend, it's the future...so, who know :(
    07-18-2013 01:12 AM
  2. rockstarzzz's Avatar
    I see this thread eventually spiral out into a FUD. I'm subscribed now to this thread ;)
    snowmutt, DavidinCT and xandros9 like this.
    07-18-2013 04:11 AM
  3. John Balacano's Avatar
    Probably (this is just my opinion) well we will see MSFT just releasing for example windows 8.1 and then let say windows 8.2 and so on until after a few years will release windows 9 and then will repeat again on windows 9.1 just similar to iOS. And probably Microsoft should also fix their upgrade policies similar to what apple did on the devices you will got 4 years of guaranteed software updates directly from them not on the hands of carriers. (which takes forever to test and all other things). I mean that's 4 years if you bought the phone unlocked the value of your money is worth it on buying that phone. :-)
    snowmutt likes this.
    07-18-2013 04:11 AM
  4. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    What I find most amusing in this thread, regardless of the other arguments going on, is that fact that there's this innate fear of not being able to upgrade at some 'unknown' time frame in the future.

    Let's put things in perspective shall we?

    Mobile computing is a very fast moving market. It reminds me a touch of early computer development, it will eventually plateau but that seems a bit far in the future still. It also comes down to what people expect out of their mobiles.

    So lets start at a simple question. How old should something be before it's no longer upgradeable? 1 year? 2 years? 3 years? Most mobile plans on contract are 2 years, so lets start with that. Just for arguments sake.

    Second, let's say your phone, if bought out right, was $600, so in essence you paid less than $1/day in that two year period for your phone. I spend more on coffee in a year than that.

    Third, since in the case of WP the kernel is not likely to change it's highly likely that all WP8 apps will be compatible with any new version of the OS with maybe a slight update (which devs should be doing anyway)

    So my question is this. Do you see an issue with value? Does it really matter that you can't upgrade to WP9? Do you plan to keep your phone for more than 2 years? Where exactly are the issues?

    At this point the only issue I could see that would prevent an upgrade would be that the OS requires better hardware to run smoothly. This is a possibility but there is nothing we can use as a marker to state one way or the other.

    Speaking from a personal point of view, I think it would be slightly silly of MS to not allow WP8 phones to upgrade to WP9. That's of course if WP9 comes out in the next year or so. As long as MS is willing to support WP8 and bring out some updates to make the experience better, that's all we can really hope for at this stage.

    Anything else is simply speculation. We simply don't know what the plans are.
    Last edited by N_LaRUE; 07-18-2013 at 08:09 AM.
    TMaestro, enthuz, chezm and 3 others like this.
    07-18-2013 04:54 AM
  5. nessinhaw's Avatar
    That's of course if WP9 comes out in the next year or so. As long as MS is willing to support WP8 and bring out some updates to make the experience better, that's all we can really hope for at this.

    Anything else is simply speculation. We simply don't know what the plans are.
    well, MS increased WP8 support from 18 months to 36 months...so even if there was a WP9 next year and lets say my device can't upgrade, i wouldn't need to worry right away!

    but WP 8.1 isn't even out yet (and not until early 2014 i guess) actually, barely GDR2 started to roll out and people already worry about a supposed next WP version we're not even sure it will come next year lol

    lets just enjoy WP shall we? and stop worrying about WP9 at least until next year!
    Martsicky, chezm, Muessig and 2 others like this.
    07-18-2013 05:29 AM
  6. hopmedic's Avatar
    Metro is commercially a failure.

    There is difference between failing commercially and a failure due to flaws.

    Metro is not flawed but somehow majority of population doesnt like it.

    Reason ? Failed to understand people's mindset.

    It failed in enterprise market.

    Flat design is not equal to metro but metro is equal to flat design.

    iOS and Android went to flat design ( I am sure that MS or Apple didnt invent squares or rectangles) but not necessarily metro.
    If you keep repeating yourself, you are bound to start believing what you say. The rest of us.... Not so much.
    DavidinCT, wapoz and xandros9 like this.
    07-18-2013 08:39 AM
  7. snowmutt's Avatar
    Absolutely love posts #54 & #55!!

    I will say this: MS has this opportunity to put itself into the same level as Apple in Apple's 2 strongest areas: Ecosystem, which they are building well and incorporating all it's hardware, and support.

    Just think: If every user of the 8X, 8S, 92X series or even the lower end 52X series gets upgrades, firmware updates, and new features for three years??? So in 2016, only hardware requirements prevent goodies from coming? Contrast that with Android, where due to UI skins and carrier bloat I am guessing less then 10% of devices get upgraded. How much would that build OS loyalty?

    MS will have to prove it. As shown by this and of course the next 25 threads like it, Windows Mobile and WP7 users are skeptics for good reason.



    But, I say no. WP 8 devices will not be supported. (REVERSE JINX)
    Muessig likes this.
    07-18-2013 08:39 AM
  8. AndyCalling's Avatar
    That's exactly the point. Win8 requires less, so it runs better on the same hardware.
    And if I was talking about Win8 you would have a point, but if you read my statement it is responding to your point by comparing Win7 to Win Vista. Both operating systems have one major feature in common. Neither is Win8.

    My point being, though Win7 may have higher min hardware requirements than Vista so long as those requirements are met Win7 runs faster and better on the same hardware that I bought to run Vista.
    07-18-2013 09:55 AM
  9. Rubik_H2CO3's Avatar
    i think WP8 devices will get WP9.....

    main reason that WP7 can't get WP8 was NT Kernel which require higher hardware spec. but no reason to drop WP8 right now.

    when ms make wp7, nt kernel isn't fit to mobile devices so wp7 use ce 6.0 instead of nt kernel
    07-18-2013 10:03 AM
  10. Mroofieunblockm's Avatar
    I think you misunderstood me.

    Did I say WP8 is not upgradeable ? No , I said WP8 will be upgraded to newer 8.x versions like Blue in future which will be big update but I am assuming WP9 will not be coming to WP8 devices.
    hahaha just thanked you for trolling before you judge lets wait for wp9 then we will see :)
    07-18-2013 11:16 AM
  11. ttsoldier's Avatar
    Microsoft already said that all wp8 devices will get wp9
    LastBattle and xandros9 like this.
    07-18-2013 11:27 AM
  12. AgentTheGreat's Avatar
    Just because a bunch of surveys said customer satisfaction is more doesn't suddenly gives WP an edge.

    Apple's customer satisfaction rates are highly respectable (example In J.D Power , Nokia is second behind Apple).

    When I Say Macbooks have Industry leading Customer Satisfaction.
    MS Fans say "because number of macs are very less they have higher satisfaction rates" and I can use same argument for WP8 Vs iPhone.

    I said Metro is not a commercial success , I didn't say that metro is bad or people didn't like it.
    Why do you automatically think Metro is the reason behind WP's smaller sales? If Firefox OS and Sailfish come and suddenly acquire 10 to 20 percent of all smartphone sales worldwide then you might be right. But do you see that happening?

    Sales has much more to do with marketing, perceived image of the manufacturer, timing .... all business decisions. It's no secret that everyone praises Metro on Windows Phone (not Windows 8, and that's because a wrong decision was made to put a touch-based design on non-touch screens and actually take functionality away) and the majority of those who say they don't like it are fanboys of other Operating Systems. Even if they talk about Windows Phone they are talking about such limitations as file system access and general lack of features compared to Android (not even iOS) and not Metro.

    Your insistence on Metro being the reason for the "failure" in such sentences like "Metro has failed" gives away an underlying hostility toward Microsoft or fanboyism toward Android or iOS.
    07-18-2013 11:33 AM
  13. Bob Shiska's Avatar
    People need to calm down about this rumor. The actual leak was that there would be a meeting to start looking at WP9, and that nothing was off the table. It's 2+ years out, they're just starting to look at it. It's called brainstorming, and the first rule of brainstorming is that there are no bad ideas.

    As to if WP8 devices can get WP9...You can upgrade WinXP to Win8 as long as you meet min hardware specs. WM6.5 phones don't meet the min hardware specs for WP7.
    LastBattle likes this.
    07-18-2013 11:54 AM
  14. LastBattle's Avatar
    Stop this mess again... Android device doesn't even get beyond 2 updates.
    07-18-2013 03:30 PM
  15. rockstarzzz's Avatar
    Stop this mess again... Android device doesn't even get beyond 2 updates.
    My ZTE Blade hasn't got an update yet. It was I think a 2008-2009 phone?
    07-18-2013 03:44 PM
  16. Hydrated's Avatar
    Commercial success? Hmmm.... Many companies are still ramping up to Win7, so I guess we can't really call it a complete success yet, can we? But that means we're years off from calling Metro a failure, too.
    +1
    It tickles me to see people carping about something being a "commercial failure" within just a few months... or sometimes weeks... of deployment. Usually these people have absolutely no idea of how large businesses work and how slowly they adopt new technologies.

    I work for one of the most powerful engineering firms in the United States, with more than 20,000 employees. We design and deploy cutting edge products.

    And you know what? Our managers are issued Blackberry devices (and they're not new Q10's or whatever they're called) and my PC still runs Windows XP Pro. Our IT department cannot afford ANY screw ups that could shut down production. Most businesses are very very cautious when making decisions that may affect their bottom line. That means that they are slow to migrate to new technologies.
    Last edited by Hydrated; 07-19-2013 at 08:06 AM.
    hopmedic and wapoz like this.
    07-18-2013 07:39 PM
  17. despertador's Avatar
    Oh my god, please give me a try and let me straighten this out.

    OP, I'll just state here first that WP8 devices will most definitely get WP9.
    Backup for my claim: There are 2 types of setbacks for an update. Hardware and software. Hardware on the WP8 devices will surely provide enough computing power. Also, there aren't any software setbacks either. Our phones now run the kernel equivalent to the kernel in our computers and tablet computing devices (if on Windows, of course). This kernel is flexible and supports lots of computing power. This kernel is the same kernel used in Windows Servers. So, basically no setbacks in either hardware or software.

    Microsoft did have a poor update history between mobile OS upgrades, including the ones from WM6.5 -> WP7.0 -> WP8.0. But there were setbacks that couldn't allow the updates. Unlike WP8, at least from what we know so far.
    Back-up for claim: WM6.5 couldn't upgrade because most devices were very low-spec devices. A lot of the WM devices didn't quite cut the WP minimum requirements. Also, the screen resolutions were way too diverse. At the time of WP, I believe there was only one screen resolution which was 480x800. WM devices came in all shapes and sizes, including even square-monitor devices. Also, resistive touchscreens are an issue.

    WP7 could not upgrade to WP8 because of the new kernel change, and how Microsoft wanted to avoid having the customers flash their own devices to upgrade to WP8 if an update was offered. If Microsoft did port over WP8 to the WP7 devices, all the users would have to flash their phones to wipe everything off and install the new secure bootloader. That probably wouldn't have been a great idea as the amount of devices that would be bricked from attempting that process would be high.

    Finally, the modern UI known as "metro UI" will never be the reason for limiting an update to a phone, as long as most people in the WP Team at Microsoft have IQs over 50. If there was a design overhaul, the OS's UI would be overhauled. Simple as that. No, you won't need a new kernel for that. And besides, the reason why Windows Phone gained interest in a decent percentage of the human population was because of the new look. It doesn't matter if Microsoft changes to static grid-and-icons and removes typography, because if they do, most pros about Windows Phone on their own website will be invalid. Lumias won't look special or "beautiful" without the great combination of the software and hardware. So, basically scrapping the modern UI will both trigger suicide on Windows Phone & Nokia, and also will undo basically all the Windows Team's work on Windows 8. Hah, talk about historical rollback.
    LastBattle and hopmedic like this.
    07-19-2013 11:52 AM
  18. Soble's Avatar
    Don't think about money. MS get much more money from android....then wp
    10-12-2013 08:14 AM
  19. hopmedic's Avatar
    Will there even be a WP9? Think with the direction that they may be going... Windows 8.1 instead of a "service pack" a year later. Look at how Apple has gone with OSX for how many years now - is MS looking in the same direction? At this point it's hard to say what they're going to do.
    10-12-2013 10:46 AM
  20. techiez's Avatar
    What I find most amusing in this thread, regardless of the other arguments going on, is that fact that there's this innate fear of not being able to upgrade at some 'unknown' time frame in the future.

    Let's put things in perspective shall we?

    Mobile computing is a very fast moving market. It reminds me a touch of early computer development, it will eventually plateau but that seems a bit far in the future still. It also comes down to what people expect out of their mobiles.

    So lets start at a simple question. How old should something be before it's no longer upgradeable? 1 year? 2 years? 3 years? Most mobile plans on contract are 2 years, so lets start with that. Just for arguments sake.

    Second, let's say your phone, if bought out right, was $600, so in essence you paid less than $1/day in that two year period for your phone. I spend more on coffee in a year than that.

    Third, since in the case of WP the kernel is not likely to change it's highly likely that all WP8 apps will be compatible with any new version of the OS with maybe a slight update (which devs should be doing anyway)

    So my question is this. Do you see an issue with value? Does it really matter that you can't upgrade to WP9? Do you plan to keep your phone for more than 2 years? Where exactly are the issues?

    At this point the only issue I could see that would prevent an upgrade would be that the OS requires better hardware to run smoothly. This is a possibility but there is nothing we can use as a marker to state one way or the other.

    Speaking from a personal point of view, I think it would be slightly silly of MS to not allow WP8 phones to upgrade to WP9. That's of course if WP9 comes out in the next year or so. As long as MS is willing to support WP8 and bring out some updates to make the experience better, that's all we can really hope for at this stage.

    Anything else is simply speculation. We simply don't know what the plans are.
    The fundamental problem with your argument is that not everyone lives in US where majority but carrier locked phones. however Row many still buy unlocked phones. and yes we expect to use the phone for more than 2 yrs since we've spent a good amount of money on tht.
    10-12-2013 01:39 PM
  21. techiez's Avatar
    well, MS increased WP8 support from 18 months to 36 months...so even if there was a WP9 next year and lets say my device can't upgrade, i wouldn't need to worry right away!

    but WP 8.1 isn't even out yet (and not until early 2014 i guess) actually, barely GDR2 started to roll out and people already worry about a supposed next WP version we're not even sure it will come next year lol

    lets just enjoy WP shall we? and stop worrying about WP9 at least until next year!
    Support period doesn't matter. technically wp7.8 is under support but MS hasn't even cared to fix bugs that wp7.8 brought over wp7.5.personally i this ms ll not repeat this as it wud be a suicide but supporting the argument citing support period is a joke
    10-12-2013 01:53 PM
  22. raul_junior's Avatar
    Lot of rumors are going around web that , due to failure of Metro , to capture commercial success , WP9 may be built from scratch in terms of "design".

    Lets be serious , WP8 is not really doing well compared to iOS or Android.Yes its the fastest growing platform and also has high consumer satisfaction rates trailing behind iOS but margins/profits are nowhere near Apple or Samsung.

    Getting back to the point , Some people may point out that "WP8 and all future versions will run NT kernel , so WP8 will get the update" but as the past pointed out , 6.5 devices were not upgraded to WP7 (both 6.5 and 7 are CE kernel)

    I am not saying WP will be incompatible but like last time they would say "Its not worth upgrading current devices because of old hardware or x y z"

    I think we will get two big updates to WP8 devices just like how 7.5/7.8 came to WP7 devices.
    the official WP team on twitter laughed at this rumor like 3 months ago and said it wasn't true
    10-12-2013 01:59 PM
  23. impratick's Avatar
    finally install nokia pro cam in my lumia 520! its work good :) but takes much load!!
    Attached Thumbnails wp_ss_20131013_0001.png  
    10-12-2013 02:03 PM
  24. anon(5383410)'s Avatar
    The difference between transitioning from Windows Phone 6.5 to 7, and 8 to 9 are night and day.

    As for your comment about consumer satisfaction to profit margin ratio, very rarely do tech companies turn a profit within the first year on a completely new project. In fact the consumer satisfaction rate is all they could've hoped for and by all accounts (yours included), they have it. I'm not saying wp8 won't fail but I don't think anyone including MS though it would become "#3" in a year. If it continues to improve and they show both consumers and investors that they're committed to the platform I don't see why it can't succeed.
    10-12-2013 02:13 PM
  25. gwinegarden's Avatar
    " Who acutally thinks your phone will be so great 2-3 years from now ? How long did you acutally hold on to your last phone (I know about about a year before I get the itch for a new phone)?"

    To me, the question was just will W8 phones be upgradable. Not, necessarily, those available today. People will be buying W8 phones right up until W9 comes out. It would be suicidal for Microsoft to not allow them to use the new release.
    10-12-2013 05:18 PM
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