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08-20-2013 12:52 PM
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  1. gkrew's Avatar
    Paying full price for the phone or not should not prevent users from getting all the features in the OS from Microsoft. Verizon users should not have had to deal with tethering off (WP7.X) and now Messaging off and FM Radio not available(WP8.X) These were things we had no way of knowing would not be included for us. Can you imagine the outrage if Dell workstations got some features of Windows OS and HP workstations did not?
    08-19-2013 09:45 AM
  2. TechFreak1's Avatar
    Just like to clear up something: People who are getting subsidized phones are still paying full price, just over the course of the contract.
    Or even more over the life of a contract lol..
    08-19-2013 05:49 PM
  3. LiveTilesRus's Avatar
    1. Everything has costs associated with it, be it soft or hard dollars.

    2. The carrier.
    08-19-2013 06:58 PM
  4. foxbat121's Avatar
    Or even more over the life of a contract lol..
    In US, unless you are using T-Mobile (which has a tiny network coverage), you pay the same amount per month regardless you pay full price for your phone or not.
    08-19-2013 08:26 PM
  5. a5cent's Avatar
    correct, but ppl who paid full price for a phone didn't get a break on service charges in most cases either.
    Actually, most people do get a break on service charges. It is only in the U.S. where that doesn't occur.

    I personally don't buy the urban legend that firmware updates are slowed by carrier testing. The carriers are too cheap to do real testing. Updates are delayed for one reason. Costs.
    I work for a carrier. This is not true. Carriers do an extensive amount of testing. They just aren't interested in the features that you as a consumer are interested in.

    Edit: carriers are interested in things like rx/tx signal quality, protocol standards compliance, bugs related to bandwidth usage etc. Although carriers want customers to have a bug free experience, they don't spend time testing whether the apps (people hub, music &video hub, email client, etc) work as advertised.
    Last edited by a5cent; 08-20-2013 at 09:16 AM.
    08-19-2013 08:51 PM
  6. foxbat121's Avatar
    Actually, most people do get a break on service charges. It is only in the U.S. where that doesn't occur.

    Not so, say in China. You are expected to pay full price for your own phone and there is no service discount for that.
    08-19-2013 09:36 PM
  7. a5cent's Avatar
    Not so, say in China. You are expected to pay full price for your own phone and there is no service discount for that.
    Your example actually supports my argument:
    U.S. Assumes all smartphones are subsidized.
    Carriers add a premium to the monthly service charges to recoup the subsidy over the duration of the contract (actually, carriers earn a bit on that deal). Whether the smartphone was actually subsidized, or bought outright, is typically ignored.
    China Assumes no smartphones are subsidized.
    The reason Chinese consumers don't get a service discount after paying full price, is because not a penny was added to the monthly service charge to begin with. In China you can get nearly unlimited everything and great reception for about $25/month.

    Although Chinese consumers do have the ability to get a subsidized smartphone, the subsidies are payed for by the Chinese government, not by the carriers, so not even then do carriers add any premiums to their monthly service rates.
    James8561 likes this.
    08-19-2013 11:16 PM
  8. OzRob's Avatar
    I'm not really sure what discounts has to do with modifying updates. Phones bought on plans from carriers are bought on a 'pay over time' basis. This may or may not include some price and or service discount. Phones bought outright are bought on a 'pay up front' basis. This may or may not include some discount from the shop.

    Regardless of whether there's a discount or a premium, carriers enter into contracts with phone manufacturers that have certain provisions, one of which may be that the phones provided to the carrier for sale have customised firmware (another provision may be exclusivity for a period of time, or certain carrier-only colours). This is a business relationship between the carrier and the manufacturer.

    When you CHOOSE to take advantage of the 'pay over time' offer of a carrier to buy a phone, you buy the carrier's version of that phone, which may have firmware that is different from other carriers' versions, or phones that come direct from the manufacturer. If the carrier does things to the firmware that you don't like, you have the right not to buy your next phone from them.

    As long as the carrier doesn't make changes that breach the terms of its contract with the manufacturer, it's free to update the firmware of its versions of the handsets it sells as it sees fit. There is absolutely no legal (or indeed moral or ethical) issue at play here. So if your carrier modifies the manufacturer's firmware to, say, disable Data Sense or FM radio, it is within its rights to do so (assuming its contract with the manufacturer allows this). And you, as a consumer, have the right not to buy from carriers that do things to the firmware that you don't like.

    As far as Microsoft allowing carriers to change OS updates, I believe that this is not the case. All Windows Phone 8 handsets get the same base operating system updates. But firmware modifications mean that some features aren't enabled at a hardware level by some carrier supplied phones.

    Caveat emptor!
    08-19-2013 11:59 PM
  9. James8561's Avatar
    Conspiracy theory:
    AT&T is purposefully delaying the Amber update because they currently hold the exclusivity on the Lumia 1020 and want to push people toward that phone which comes default Amber
    08-20-2013 01:40 AM
  10. JD Miles's Avatar
    Hope these updates don't stagnate and never get released by AT&T like they did with my Focus. It never got past Mango and they could not have cared less. That was a nice little phone that should have gone all the way to 7.8. I know there were ways to get around this but that should have not been the case, as it is my opinion the carrier should be required to allow the manufacture or operating system provider to keep your phone operating at it's best through the contract term you pay the carrier for, besides I was led to believe that one of the new deals with WP8 was that the updates were going to be provided over the air without carrier involvement as it is on your PC no matter the manufacturer nor whoever your internet provider might be. In the case of AT&T they wait to stack multiple updates as they feel like , since once they open the gate you get all updates you were due on a cumulative basis. All in all AT&T has a lot going for it, but they absolutely suck at device support for Windows phones. Itis tragic how they pretend to be on board with Windows phones. I have been in a lot of their stores over the years ( 6 or more in two different states ) and have never had anyone even pretend to be enthusiastic when I have expressed interest in WP operating system, and as matter of fact the stores I have dealt with have made me feel like an ***** for even considering anything other than iphone or android, it is a wonder anyone gets through the experience and actually leaves the store with a WP anything!!!! Rant over.
    08-20-2013 02:55 AM
  11. taymur's Avatar
    how I see things, people out side this forum, normal people I mean, have no idea that their update is late (they have no idea there is an update to begin with), have no idea that the store tile takes forever to update (some of them notice if they by chance click an app in store that they have and happen to have an update), so carriers don't fear to be a little bit late, because an average user has no idea.
    08-20-2013 05:24 AM
  12. aquimosa's Avatar
    Here in the Philippines, you can get a Lumia 920 for 40usd per month, free unit(no cash outlay) w/ contract for 2 yrs. Package includes 120 text, 120min calls and unlimited internet, while iPhone 5 and galaxy 4 w/c is 50usd per month for 2yrs contract w/ 100usd cash out, mostly prefered both over Nokia Lumia despite being pricey but when apple and Samsung announce updates, even if its rumor or circulating in the internet, the result of update is the same and quickly release compared to Lumia w/c has various features that you cannot find if you get a lower end unit. This is why carrier is slow to approve in pushing Lumia updates here because few are aware of the product, I don't know if Microsoft or carrier is the culprit but the longer updates to be officially release then marketing impact for new batch of Lumia's has lost its essence in the market. IPhone and Samsung capitalize on that not to mention Huwaei and Sony. HTC using android o.s. was doing fairly with iPhone and Samsung but windows o.s., same as Nokia Lumia, HTC 8x when launched was priced at 900usd but after 6months the price goes down as low as 400usd using windows 8. That's how windows phone 8 crashes down even updates were announce in the internet.
    Last edited by aquimosa; 08-20-2013 at 09:13 AM.
    08-20-2013 08:45 AM
  13. aquimosa's Avatar
    No matter what if you buy unlocked unit or tied up to a carrier, updates should be delivered without delay to excite the user and not to frustrate them. But carrier will favor the most sought after smartphone to outsell competitors and carrier can't delay or limit what smartphones can do because manufacturer already feed the public what to expect so public will know what to look for.
    08-20-2013 08:56 AM
  14. aquimosa's Avatar
    This is one of the problem I saw in bringing low end unit together with high end unit, Nokia flourished in recent years because low end china phones was not a competitor to contend with but in this smartphones era, Nokia should follow what apple is doing, Nokia must bring only one type of smartphone which has all the features, the gap between low end and higher end will spell the difference in garnering a piece of what apple and Samsung have..let the Chinese battle with Symbian o.s., let the Lumia trash everyone with superior features where apple and Samsung played. Nokia Lumia must take the challenge aggressively.
    08-20-2013 09:12 AM
  15. Rodrigo Mendes's Avatar
    And yet Apple has the power to dictate that all of their devices get an update, when they get the update, and what is in the update.

    For this particular reason, Apple is loosing some money on many contries around the world, like Russia. And both Microsoft and Nokia needs Carriers to make "free" merchandise of your products.

    Apple have more power, so they don't need this too much like Microsoft or Nokia right now.
    08-20-2013 10:17 AM
  16. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    For this particular reason, Apple is loosing some money on many contries around the world, like Russia. And both Microsoft and Nokia needs Carriers to make "free" merchandise of your products.

    Apple have more power, so they don't need this too much like Microsoft or Nokia right now.
    Where did you get that information?
    08-20-2013 12:19 PM
  17. Rodrigo Mendes's Avatar
    Where did you get that information?
    A little here

    08-20-2013 12:52 PM
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