11-05-2013 09:47 PM
113 1234 ...
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  1. ag1986's Avatar
    Listen, i would've been impressed if they were going to upgrade the Galaxy Nexus to KitKat and showed the world how streamlined the OS got, but they didnt they ended support so yeah no. To have a first class expirence of Android you need a top tier phone, skinned lightly or get a Nexus.
    Yeah, I feel your pain there as well. Though most people have been saying that's because the GN's OMAP processor is made by Texas Instruments, who are out of the mobile chip business and moreover, fired ~1500 people in that business unit. Apparently it would have been impossible to get driver support :(
    11-04-2013 09:52 AM
  2. z33dev33l's Avatar
    I think that's the op's question... Should it run on very low end phones like butter, is that a threat to wp sales ?
    Have you ever used a cheap android phone? The quality shows. Low end Galaxies are almost comical and that's probably the better part of the low end. Huaweii and the likes swim in that market and honestly, their high end devices feel cheap. If you pick up a 520 you pick up a premium device for as little as $39.99
    11-04-2013 10:25 AM
  3. anony_mouse's Avatar
    No matter what, that OS will never be smooth, unless it becomes closed source.
    Since its open source, any developer can upload a buggy popular app that'll destroy the usage experience.
    I would also be curious to know how open v. closed source OS code affects smooth v. laggy user experience vis--vis buggy apps. On the face of it, this comment makes less sense to me than teaching calculus to a tomato, but no doubt that is due to my ignorance in these matters.

    Could you please explain?
    11-04-2013 11:05 AM
  4. montsa007's Avatar
    I would also be curious to know how open v. closed source OS code affects smooth v. laggy user experience vis--vis buggy apps. On the face of it, this comment makes less sense to me than teaching calculus to a tomato, but no doubt that is due to my ignorance in these matters.

    Could you please explain?
    If you've ever submitted an app to Google playstore, you'll notice that nobody from Google bothers to test it, whether it is bugged, loaded with worms, malware or if its some scam app.
    The app is only reviewed if there's complaints and stuff, but whats the use now? the infection is already spread.

    Compare this with Apple and Windows (Closed source, they do not allow rooting and stuff, APple does to a certain extent but not as much as android), each app is manually reviewed before its made public. You try to upload some worm and they'll catch you for real.

    The difference?
    I can spread a very nice game, loaded with a nasty worm that hacks the users data and stuff under android.

    Try the same thing with Apple and wp8 and I won't be able to breach the gates.

    Besides, Playstore has a 1 time fee of $25 to publish unlimited apps, all are made live without any checking and stuff. Meaning, pay $25 and infect countless souls.

    Apple needs a yearly payment, wp may have changed policies, but from what I remember they needed an yearly payment too, they did drop it to a 1 time payment of $19 but I don;t know if its still valid.
    11-04-2013 11:23 AM
  5. Jas00555's Avatar
    I would also be curious to know how open v. closed source OS code affects smooth v. laggy user experience vis--vis buggy apps. On the face of it, this comment makes less sense to me than teaching calculus to a tomato, but no doubt that is due to my ignorance in these matters.

    Could you please explain?
    I'm vastly over simplifying it, but basically when you have an open source OS, you have the make the code open and able to work with more things. Whereas when it's proprietary, things are more optimized.

    Windows and OS X aren't open, but it's a good example. OS X really is built under the assumption that you have a mac, whereas Windows can run on anything as long as you have enough memory and storage, so Windows tends to be more buggy (not that much in my experience though)
    11-04-2013 11:26 AM
  6. rockstarzzz's Avatar
    [WARN]This thread is going off-topic[/WARN]
    11-04-2013 11:52 AM
  7. scottcraft's Avatar
    No. Time for MS to worry started three years ago when they launched a new ecosystem against two giants, and hasn't come close to stopping yet. The platform is catching on, but the time to relax is a long way off.
    I agree with this statement. I think Microsoft knows they need to do better in the mid range and high end segments while maintaining their gains in the low end market.
    11-04-2013 11:59 AM
  8. tgp's Avatar
    Have you ever used a cheap android phone?
    Actually I have, an LG Optimus V. And it worked perfectly until I started flashing custom ROMS. Even then, it was pretty good. And do you want to know something? It would, even today, run circles around any WP produced to this date in functionality.
    11-04-2013 12:05 PM
  9. chezm's Avatar
    Actually I have, an LG Optimus V. And it worked perfectly until I started flashing custom ROMS. Even then, it was pretty good. And do you want to know something? It would, even today, run circles around any WP produced to this date in functionality.
    I find that very hard to believe...."run circles around any WP", what does this even mean? You can say what you want, any device running a NON-stock Android generally develops issues due to the crappy on-board "unique" OEM functionality added to give its own 'spice'. I've used MANY recent low budget non-stock android phones and they are pretty laggy/slow right from the get go. Examples being a Galaxy Discover, Ace 2x and some HTC variant i cant remember the model.

    Phone = Nexus
    Tablet = Nexus
    General statements in forum/board = Nexus/Android defendant

    ohhhh your sig says you own all three types of OS phones so you cant be bias...right :P
    11-04-2013 12:15 PM
  10. ohgood's Avatar
    Have you ever used a cheap android phone? The quality shows. Low end Galaxies are almost comical and that's probably the better part of the low end. Huaweii and the likes swim in that market and honestly, their high end devices feel cheap. If you pick up a 520 you pick up a premium device for as little as $39.99

    $39 with a credit check, how many years on NEW contract, with how big an early termination fee ? c'mon, there is no smartphone for $39. or if there is, enlighten me.


    cheap phones? oh i had em...
    yes, i had on the table this weekend a 920, a g1, a g2, an s2, an s3, a note2 (not sure if it was a note, note2, or note3 really), and an s4. there was very little difference in feel besides the 4+ year old g1 was about to fall apart. the 3+ year old g2 felt a lot like the 920 (which suprised me) and all the galaxy line were uneventful in comparison really. aside screen size differences, there was little difference in responsiveness (except the g2 and g1 were noticably slower using mapping apps), and the 920 got hot at one point browsing photos.
    11-04-2013 12:21 PM
  11. ag1986's Avatar
    If you've ever submitted an app to Google playstore, you'll notice that nobody from Google bothers to test it, whether it is bugged, loaded with worms, malware or if its some scam app.
    The app is only reviewed if there's complaints and stuff, but whats the use now? the infection is already spread.

    Compare this with Apple and Windows (Closed source, they do not allow rooting and stuff, APple does to a certain extent but not as much as android), each app is manually reviewed before its made public. You try to upload some worm and they'll catch you for real.

    The difference?
    I can spread a very nice game, loaded with a nasty worm that hacks the users data and stuff under android.

    Try the same thing with Apple and wp8 and I won't be able to breach the gates.

    Besides, Playstore has a 1 time fee of $25 to publish unlimited apps, all are made live without any checking and stuff. Meaning, pay $25 and infect countless souls.

    Apple needs a yearly payment, wp may have changed policies, but from what I remember they needed an yearly payment too, they did drop it to a 1 time payment of $19 but I don;t know if its still valid.

    Ahh, I understand now. You do not know the first difference between closed-source and open-source code, and the differences that they entail. Moreover, you have confused the respective platforms' app store review mechanisms with open vs. closed source.

    Open vs closed has really nothing to do with security. I present to you one example which usually proves my point:

    What is the most insecure desktop OS on the planet: MS Windows (closed source)

    What is considered to be the most secure OS: Various flavours of Linux or UNIX, which are open-source (btw, Mac OSX is also a POSIX-compliant UNIX-based but closed source OS).

    I will admit that Play Store's mechanisms for enforcement are not up to Apple's standard, but nor are they completely non-existent. Things have changed.

    Firstly, little of the malware on Droid has spread via the Play Store itself - if you download and run APKs from random sites, it's like clicking on a link on a Windows box "Free naked pictures of Miley Cyrus (or male equivalent, if that's your taste). The recent Verify Apps function, which scans sideloaded APKs helps here. Also, in 2012, Google launched Bouncer, which scans apps on the Play Store by executing them in a simulated environment to identify harmful behaviour. This was bypassed of course, but has only improved. See this for more: Contrary to what you’ve heard, Android is almost impenetrable to malware – Quartz where they show the details.

    Finally, note that a great percentage of this malware is only applicable to rooted devices. The vast majority of consumers do not.

    In conclusion, open source does not automatically mean malware.
    11-04-2013 12:33 PM
  12. tgp's Avatar
    I find that very hard to believe...."run circles around any WP", what does this even mean? You can say what you want, any device running a NON-stock Android generally develops issues due to the crappy on-board "unique" OEM functionality added to give its own 'spice'. I've used MANY recent low budget non-stock android phones and they are pretty laggy/slow right from the get go. Examples being a Galaxy Discover, Ace 2x and some HTC variant i cant remember the model.

    Phone = Nexus
    Tablet = Nexus
    General statements in forum/board = Nexus/Android defendant

    ohhhh your sig says you own all three types of OS phones so you cant be bias...right :P
    Maybe since I own and use all 3 it creates bias, since I know first hand what each can and cannot do. In the last year I've bought 1 Android phone, 2 iPhones, and 8 or so WPs.

    As far as "running circles around WP", I'm speaking purely of features & functionality, not necessarily user experience or satisfaction. Take your 920 or 1020 or 1520 and edit an .xls document. Email 2 of them in the same email. Lock the screen rotation (yes I know that's very close to being official, but 3 years after WP's release?). Quick toggle WiFi/bluetooth/airplane mode. Customize your LED notification light (oh wait...). Set up your WP to automatically turn on WiFi and disable the lockscreen when you arrive at home and/or work. Do you need more examples?
    11-04-2013 12:33 PM
  13. ag1986's Avatar
    I'm vastly over simplifying it, but basically when you have an open source OS, you have the make the code open and able to work with more things. Whereas when it's proprietary, things are more optimized.

    Windows and OS X aren't open, but it's a good example. OS X really is built under the assumption that you have a mac, whereas Windows can run on anything as long as you have enough memory and storage, so Windows tends to be more buggy (not that much in my experience though)
    That really has nothing to do with open vs. closed source... Try running Goobuntu or Linux Mint on the same hardware (say a slightly old C2D or a newer i3 box) and compare to Windows 8. I'll bet money that the Linux box is faster. This is just because Linux has better process control and memory management. It's just because, like you said, OSX is smoother because Apple knows the specs of every machine that it will ever run on while MS has to make sure that Windows will run on tens of thousands of RAM/CPU/GPU/mobo combinations. That is also why iOS and WP8 are smoother than Android, it really has nothing to do with the closed vs open source nature of these platforms.

    Even today, on my i7 gaming box with 16 GB RAM, SSD and a GTX 660M, I get 4-5 second delays when I right-click on the Desktop. And the Downloads folder always takes 10-15 secs to open. This same machine will happily play Skyrim or Borderlands or Battlefield 3 on Ultra/Very High. Why does that happen? No idea.
    11-04-2013 12:41 PM
  14. chezm's Avatar
    I won't deny WP is lacking the functionality Android offers in terms of mobile OS. I had an GS3 before my 920 so I can appreciate some of the offerings, such as tools management and portable PC design. However, I'd take a lag free, stable functioning, start screen unique UI over Android mobile phone any day (I still have and use my Nexus 7, haven't completely left).

    People can go on and on about how stable Android is...but my boss has a S4, couple of friends with Nexus 4 and sister with HTC one...they can at least all admit the simplest things are sooo frustrating.so I guess its preference and payoff.
    tgp likes this.
    11-04-2013 12:41 PM
  15. scottcraft's Avatar
    I won't deny WP is lacking the functionality Android offers in terms of mobile OS. I had an GS3 before my 920 so I can appreciate some of the offerings, such as tools management and portable PC design. However, I'd take a lag free, stable functioning, start screen unique UI over Android mobile phone any day (I still have and use my Nexus 7, haven't completely left).

    People can go on and on about how stable Android is...but my boss has a S4, couple of friends with Nexus 4 and sister with HTC one...they can at least all admit the simplest things are sooo frustrating.so I guess its preference and payoff.
    I think if we all are truly honest all platforms have things about them that are very frustrating. We have to pick which platform frustrates us the least.
    techiez and cckgz4 like this.
    11-04-2013 12:47 PM
  16. chezm's Avatar
    I think if we all are truly honest all platforms have things about them that are very frustrating. We have to pick which platform frustrates us the least.
    Agreed, hence "preference and payoff" statement i made. I will agree WP isnt without its frustrations either, i will still stand behind the fact that one of the 3 big players can offer an enjoyable experience, just depends on what the users preferences are.
    11-04-2013 01:06 PM
  17. hopmedic's Avatar
    Agreed, hence "preference and payoff" statement i made. I will agree WP isnt without its frustrations either, i will still stand behind the fact that one of the 3 big players can offer an enjoyable experience, just depends on what the users preferences are.
    Exactly. No single phone, or even phone OS, will ever be THE one that will meet everyone's needs. So we need competition to breed innovation, and variety to satisfy varying needs and desires.
    cckgz4 and scottcraft like this.
    11-04-2013 01:09 PM
  18. Jas00555's Avatar
    That really has nothing to do with open vs. closed source... Try running Goobuntu or Linux Mint on the same hardware (say a slightly old C2D or a newer i3 box) and compare to Windows 8. I'll bet money that the Linux box is faster. This is just because Linux has better process control and memory management. It's just because, like you said, OSX is smoother because Apple knows the specs of every machine that it will ever run on while MS has to make sure that Windows will run on tens of thousands of RAM/CPU/GPU/mobo combinations. That is also why iOS and WP8 are smoother than Android, it really has nothing to do with the closed vs open source nature of these platforms.

    Even today, on my i7 gaming box with 16 GB RAM, SSD and a GTX 660M, I get 4-5 second delays when I right-click on the Desktop. And the Downloads folder always takes 10-15 secs to open. This same machine will happily play Skyrim or Borderlands or Battlefield 3 on Ultra/Very High. Why does that happen? No idea.
    Very true, but like I said, I was vastly over simplifying it and what I said won't always hold up, but my point was more optimization of the code rather than "well, its open source so its slower".
    11-04-2013 01:12 PM
  19. techiez's Avatar
    Android can't even run smoothly on dual quad core processors. You really think they can optimize it for the low end?
    Yes as of now it doesnt but with KitKat it seems google acknowledges this, so I think if they manage to optimize it for the low end then it is a threat, infact it would be a deathblow
    11-04-2013 01:14 PM
  20. squire777's Avatar
    I think people need to stop being so insecure about anything Google or Apple does. I mean anytime they release something new the usual suspects start waving their arms in the air crying that Windows Phone is going to die. It's not like the lag has stopped people from adopting low end Android phones already - what's to say that people will rush out to buy them even more now?

    Google has claimed that their last few iterations of Android reduced lag, better for low end devices etc but it usually isn't the case after real-world use.
    11-04-2013 01:17 PM
  21. ag1986's Avatar
    Very true, but like I said, I was vastly over simplifying it and what I said won't always hold up, but my point was more optimization of the code rather than "well, its open source so its slower".
    Yep, and I was saying that optimised code and it's open or proprietary nature have nothing to do with each other. I think you were making the point that it's easier to optimise code when you have a limited set of platforms that code will run on, versus having to make sure it runs on many platforms and therefore is less optimised. That is how I would put it :)
    11-04-2013 01:27 PM
  22. techiez's Avatar
    I won't deny WP is lacking the functionality Android offers in terms of mobile OS. I had an GS3 before my 920 so I can appreciate some of the offerings, such as tools management and portable PC design. However, I'd take a lag free, stable functioning, start screen unique UI over Android mobile phone any day (I still have and use my Nexus 7, haven't completely left).

    People can go on and on about how stable Android is...but my boss has a S4, couple of friends with Nexus 4 and sister with HTC one...they can at least all admit the simplest things are sooo frustrating.so I guess its preference and payoff.
    But if google manages to fix the lag and stability many would move back from wp to android? because android at this point is way more functional.
    11-04-2013 01:29 PM
  23. Jas00555's Avatar
    Yep, and I was saying that optimised code and it's open or proprietary nature have nothing to do with each other. I think you were making the point that it's easier to optimise code when you have a limited set of platforms that code will run on, versus having to make sure it runs on many platforms and therefore is less optimised. That is how I would put it :)
    *sigh* being on WPC while being tired was not the best idea ;) thank you, yes, that was the point I was trying to get across.
    11-04-2013 01:31 PM
  24. techiez's Avatar
    I think people need to stop being so insecure about anything Google or Apple does. I mean anytime they release something new the usual suspects start waving their arms in the air crying that Windows Phone is going to die. It's not like the lag has stopped people from adopting low end Android phones already - what's to say that people will rush out to buy them even more now?

    Google has claimed that their last few iterations of Android reduced lag, better for low end devices etc but it usually isn't the case after real-world use.
    Well as of now the biggest risk is more due to what MS did, Apple and google are improving and moving ahead and WP is stil much behind playing catchup but some of the Marketshare is just due to Nokia's name, have to see how sales go in countries like India n China once Nokia branding is removed.
    11-04-2013 01:34 PM
  25. Blacklac's Avatar
    If you've ever submitted an app to Google playstore, you'll notice that nobody from Google bothers to test it, whether it is bugged, loaded with worms, malware or if its some scam app.
    The app is only reviewed if there's complaints and stuff, but whats the use now? the infection is already spread.

    Compare this with Apple and Windows (Closed source, they do not allow rooting and stuff, APple does to a certain extent but not as much as android), each app is manually reviewed before its made public. You try to upload some worm and they'll catch you for real.

    The difference?
    I can spread a very nice game, loaded with a nasty worm that hacks the users data and stuff under android.

    Try the same thing with Apple and wp8 and I won't be able to breach the gates.

    Besides, Playstore has a 1 time fee of $25 to publish unlimited apps, all are made live without any checking and stuff. Meaning, pay $25 and infect countless souls.

    Apple needs a yearly payment, wp may have changed policies, but from what I remember they needed an yearly payment too, they did drop it to a 1 time payment of $19 but I don;t know if its still valid.
    If you think Apple/Microsoft/BB thoroughly test every App submitted, you are delusional.
    11-04-2013 01:39 PM
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